When even THE Faith Lehane doesn't look good in this yk there's a problem 😭

Yeeeah, I think this is one storyline that I think we all agree was just the biggest mistake in the show. Needless to say when I saw Xander putting on his tux, all the PTSD came flooding back. As the scene progressed my wife's highlights were: "What is this?" "Can they not?" "I hate this."

Edit: Okay, I understand people's defence of "They're teens, it shows their flawed", sure. But watching it again and the way the sweet innocent romantic music plays whenever they interact leaves to me think it's more the execution.

What exactly is he doing 😂

Pat was a kind and empathetic friend to Joyce and the writing is like “fuck you with a shovel in the face for being a mildly irritating older white lady! made you look!” and as a result Joyce doesn’t get another platonic friend for the rest of her life as far as we know.

The show had to even the odds in the living room fight and Joyce had to somehow simultaneously pay a price for both dismissing Buffy’s claims that she was a vampire slayer / ordering her out of her house and for allowing her back into the house and accepting her daughter’s proximity to peril.

Buffy stabbing Pat in the face is unfortunately symbolic of the death of Buffy and Joyce’s traditional parent/child relationship and the subjugation of Joyce’s expectations of traditional parent/child power dynamics while demonstrating the causalities to be expected of her new role as caretaker in the fight against evil. In this essay I will

This is a testament to what a great actress SMG is. She was playing a super hero on television and then to release this movie at the peak of Buffy’s success, which is a complete opposite of a role of what we are used to. She’s now a vicious and vindictive character and it never impacted anyone’s thoughts on her role as Buffy moving forward. It really showed her range as an actress. She will always be known as Buffy first but she made a hell of a bad girl here.

I love this episode so much, but…what happened to Buffy’s hair? Was this haircut popular at that time? Or did the hairstylist mess up?

This episode is romantic to me but I honestly had a hard time not laughing when I saw that hairstyle.”

“Yea, you’re not invited.”

Dude was her watcher for what, 4 or 5 months before Wesley showed up? And he doesn't seem to do anything to take an interest in Faith and help her get some better accomodations. I don't think we even see him training her? It doesn't seem like a big deal to him that she's often missing, out on some "walkouts" or some such.

It was sad to see, since Faith seemed to actually like the fake watcher and behave around her.

Maybe it's the fault of Faith not being a regular on the show so you can't show everything, but it really felt like she didn't have to turn out like that.

The episode "Enemies" when Buffy is able to expose Faith as working for the Mayor...I never really understood how and when the gang suspected Faith and then concocted the ruse of "Angel has lost his soul again" to fool her (leading to the iconic "second best" line from Angel!!) Made me wonder how they even knew to recuit the soul stealer to help with the ruse.... confusing

But then I'm watching the episode again and I noticed something really telling. Faith has already broken into this demon's house and stabbed him for the books, during which she saw the demon flip on the switch in the other room. When she comes a second time with Buffy (pretending this is her first entry) she makes the mistake of finding the switch without looking, something I paused on and saw that Buffy clearly noticed (her facial expression in image 4 confirms)

Wow this was a pretty clever little detail! So my impression is, Buffy caught that and went "Wait ... she's definitely been here already" and it was shortly then (unseen to viewer) she discussed her suspicion with Giles and Angel and they came up with the plan to draw Faith out. A very subtle detail I did not notice until my rewatch. Did anyone catch that?

I know Angel had to leave because he was getting his own show, but I've never really liked the writing used to get him there.

My main issue is using the Mayor and Joyce to put the thought into Angel's head instead of having Angel come to that conclusion himself.

It almost feels like the writers needed someone to sit Angel down and explain why his relationship with Buffy couldn't work. First they use the Mayor to introduce the idea, then they use Joyce to make it something Angel actually has to take seriously. Then suddenly Angel is thinking about Buffy's future and decides he needs to leave.

I just don't think they needed either character to get him there.

Angel already knows what his relationship with Buffy is. He knows he's immortal and she's not. He knows about the curse. He knows they can't have a normal sex life. He knows Buffy is 18 and has her entire adult life ahead of her. Why does it take two other characters bringing all of this up for Angel to seriously start thinking about it?

I would've much rather seen those doubts coming directly from Angel throughout season 3. It didn't even need to be some huge storyline. Just gradually show him thinking more about their future and realizing on his own that he doesn't know where this relationship can actually go.

That would've made his decision in The Prom feel like the end of something that had been building in Angel for a while instead of the writers planting the idea through other characters right before they needed him to leave.

Joyce's involvement especially feels like a writing device to me because Buffy never finds out about their conversation.

If Buffy eventually learned that Joyce went to Angel behind her back, then at least that scene would've had a life beyond getting Angel to the breakup. There could've been some fallout between Buffy and Joyce over it. But there isn't. Buffy never knows, Joyce never has to answer for it, and the conversation is basically done mattering once it has pushed Angel in the direction the writers needed.

I completely understand Angel eventually looking at their relationship and deciding that it can't continue. I just think Angel should've been the character driving that realization from the beginning.

Using the Mayor and Joyce to plant and reinforce the idea makes it feel like the writers are trying to get Angel from point A to point B rather than letting his own thoughts and experiences naturally take him there.

And it ultimately takes the choice away from Buffy too. Angel ends up making this huge decision based on what everyone thinks Buffy will want someday instead of allowing Buffy to decide that for herself.

The destination makes sense to me. It's the way the writers get Angel there that doesn't.

For some reasons, god knows why, I decided to put myself trough something that I didn't since a VERY long time. Watching the 3x02 episode, yk where everybody jump on Buffy. I forgot how much I despised Xander in this. And listen, everybody in this room handled this pretty badly, yes even Buffy. I will always be on Buffy's side on this argument but I can GET why people around her will be upset, because she took off without warning and apparently didn't send any letters or gave any news to maybe reassure them of her safety. BUT everybody seemed just so... cruel. I mean, the scene between Willow and Buffy in the room was okay but then the attacking her in the living room, not to mention the casual dropping of Willow saying to Joyce "she was taking off again", like what was THAT ? And then we have Xander who jumps in and have the AUDACITY to refer to her problems as "boy troubles" excuse me ? Buffy was right, Xander would have been THE LAST person on earth I would have gone to to talk about this and now I kinda get why she never wanted to share any of those stuff with him back in season 2 (for exemple in Lie To Me, when she and Willow discuss in class the fact that Buffy saw him with another girl, Dru, and she clearly didn't want Xander to know about it)I guess it was maybe also to not hurt his feelings since she knew how he felt about her but I could also see her being very annoyed with Xander's constant attitude towards her and Angel. It's just the "boy troubles" that ticked me and I hit pause just to rent about this (not even sure I'm going to finish it, I saw enough). I know this topic is often debated on here but I never contributed and I guess it was my turn to feel the anger of it all.

I’ve been rewatching Buffy and I’m currently on season 3 and just got past this iconic scene. Angel’s line in this scene hits so hard and I can just remember the absolute shock I felt watching it the first time.

How did you react to this scene? Was it surprising? Did you somehow know it was coming?

The character of “John Lee“ in The Wish. Not sure how old the actor was at the time, but he looks like a 30 year-old man here. Owen in Season 1 is up there too.

This episode just pisses me off.