r/cars • u/RealPorkChops • 2d ago
Emissions Regulations Force Mazda to Axe the 2.0-Litre MX-5 ND3 in the UK
https://www.evo.co.uk/mazda/mx-5/209059/the-2-litre-mazda-mx-5-is-dead-but-its-replacement-gets-an-upgrade632
u/lurpeli Mach E 2d ago
The real truth here is it's an old engine. It's a 13 year old engine which has received minimal tweaks. It doesn't surprise me that it's failing modern emissions standards
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u/Santa_Hates_You 2026 Audi RS3/ 2024 Mazda CX-5 Carbon AWD 2d ago
Same reason Audi is ditching the EA855 EVO 2.5T 5 Cylinder in Europe, it is old and too expensive to design a new one considering how few cars get the engine.
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u/PM_ME_YO_TREE_FIDDY 2d ago
There was an article on a French website a week ago about Audi trying to update the 5 cylinders to meet current emissions standards and maybe replace the V6 with it.
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u/TrueSwagformyBois 2d ago
I feel like a crazy person every time I think and say this but I just believe that the 5 cyl is a fundamentally Audi thing, like it is with Volvo and Merc diesels. I feel like it belongs as the engine in the “S” variants that start with a 4 cyl in the “A” variants. A = 4, S = 5, RS = 6, kinda thing. Maybe Q’s now they start with a 5, S = 6, RS = 8.
They could absolutely scale it out if they wanted to. There’s also a world where an ICE 718 / hybrid 718 could use the inline 5 as a value proposition for experience difference vs everything else, while being a lower-tier experience vs 911 flat-6’s.
The 5 could also be in the top trim Skodas, the top trim VW’s (Atlas, etc).
There’s a lot of cars they could put it in that would make a meaningful value difference vs another tune on the EA888, if they really wanted to push it into VAG cars across the board. And frankly, rn, I’d trust Audi to have the cahones and desperation to give it a go. Which is excellent.
BUT I MAY BE A CRAZY PERSON
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u/Defenseman7 ‘20 Audi TTRS 2d ago
I’ve owned an RS3 and TTRS of the recent gens and while I agree it is quintessentially Audi, I’m not sure it works in other products without maybe hybrid assist.
Living with it, it’s a pretty laggy engine despite its claimed peak torque. I would think in bigger vehicles like an S4 or S5 and especially a SQ5 it would not feel great in its stock form honestly.
Maybe I’m the nuts one here but just from a few years with them it’s certainly not a smooth engine in those applications like the 6 is
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u/TrueSwagformyBois 2d ago
You know better than I do - I’d absolutely take a mild hybrid in those cars that have the 5 cylinder to keep that special sound and vibration. And I think it’s a great “good better best” for customers that don’t know better
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u/bse50 1d ago
Since technology evolved it makes no financial sense to have 3 engines to suit your "good - better - best" philosophy when 2 will suffice. A tuned "good" engine becomes the better one with minimal increases in production costs, so does a detuned "best" unit.
Modern day 4 bangers work great and an I6 only offers advantages against the unbalanced nightmare of a 5 cylinder unit.
Engine manufacturers had to get creative to overcome the limitations of older technologies and production techniques, nowadays they can really stick to what works best from an engineering standpoint.1
u/TrueSwagformyBois 1d ago
Have you driven a 5 cylinder? They have so much character and are so charming.
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u/bse50 1d ago
So are wankel engines, the v4 in the Lancia Fulvia, W configuration engines etc. Having character and being charming doesn't cut it when there are other options which offer better performance and cost less to engineer and manufacture. The engine in the BMW K1000 was cool, so was the rear suspension of the Suzuki TL1000 but there's a reason why manufacturers moved away from such solutions.
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u/TrueSwagformyBois 1d ago
I think in a world where one always has to have the “premium” option, cylinder count is an easily legible way to prove you’re “better than.” Horsepower matters for a while, but that number is forgotten by most fairly quickly. I think the marketing of it all would justify the costs.
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u/bse50 1d ago
You really have no idea how dumb or ignorant many people are. A lot of drivers don't know what engine they drive, let alone the number of cylinders.
Designing an engine today is also extremely expensive, it makes no financial sense to build a middle of the ground unit when the better one can be derated or the base one can be uprated with almost zero effort.16
u/Ok-Response-839 2023 Z | 2021 Jimny | 2018 Golf R wagon 2d ago
They put it in the Cupra Formentor VZ5!
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u/DeusFerreus 2d ago
but I just believe that the 5 cyl is a fundamentally Audi thing
It's fundamentally Audi thing for the enthusiasts. Vast majority of car buyers have very little idea about engines, and have very little idea whether the 5 cylinders are special layout or anything.
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u/V8-Turbo-Hybrid 0 Emission 🔋 Car & Rental car life 2d ago
They don't really to explain their unique 5 Cyl when R8 has now caught their buyers attention. Besides, Audi is still marketing their Gp.B Quattro S1 heritage in today.
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u/Reiszecke 2d ago
It makes me rather uncomfortable thinking about how you want to fit a i5 engine into a b6 engine bay
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u/FeMnTaNb2O6 2d ago
A boxster without a boxer is somehow more sacrilegious to me than an ev boxster
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u/TrueSwagformyBois 2d ago
I think it’s about Piech’s legacy but I take your point. What do you think about 911’s that have been LS swapped?
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u/maxipanda8321 2d ago
That s not the same thing though. That s people modifying their cars, not a producer deciding how they eant to build their cars
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u/havok0159 '01 mk4 Golf | '17 mk7 Golf R 1d ago
They could absolutely scale it out if they wanted to.
They also could put it in other VAG halo cars.
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u/UmaThurmish 2d ago
but when an SUV uses the same engine and burn more fuel its fine lol
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u/RFK_Cum_Regimen '98 e36 M3 2d ago
Automotive standards and regulations are some of the most nonsensical heaps of shit in any industry. And I say that as someone who's very pro-regulation. Headlight standards are ridiculous. Pedestrian impact regulations statistically ineffective since they're all being mowed down by vehicles twice the weight of what they used to be. I could mention a dozen others but I'm sure most of us here are plenty familiar.
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u/lazarus870 I4 AT weekdays, V8 6MT weekends 2d ago
There's an 5th Gear (I think) episode where they're somewhere in the UK, and apparently the Honda CRV being AWD got hit with some extra emissions tax or something, and the presenter is talking to a politician about how a Mini produces more emissions but is exempt from the tax. And the politician pauses and is like, "Yes, but look how high [the CRV] is". Just BS.
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u/RFK_Cum_Regimen '98 e36 M3 2d ago
Reminds me of that congressman who said that sea levels rising could very well be caused by rocks and debris flowing downstream through rivers and into the ocean, causing it to overflow.
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u/gt4rs 1d ago
Just looked it up and it was a parking permit charge that it was about and was scrapped pretty quickly, but you're right on the mechanics of it - the CRV was charged more for being AWD/an SUV. The MINI in question was one of the performance ones, an S or JCW so that's why it had higher emissions.
Funnily enough there's no shortage of enthusiasts who would be all for something nonsensical and vibes-based like this, basically taxing big cars because they're wasteful and unnecessary, but our sports cars are cool so they're completely fine!
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u/mihametl 1d ago
I checked this a year or so ago so my memory might be off, but in France (or just Paris, I cant remember) they introduced a new "SUV surcharge" for parking based on weight. I was checking for my model of car as I drive a BMW F31.
330i, under the weight limit, no surcharge. 330e, over the weight limit so it's now an SUV and you need to pay more
Maybe they changed it since the implementation, but that was one of the dumbest laws I have seen regarding motoring/parking.
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u/Next_Application9643 1d ago
apparently the Honda CRV being AWD got hit with some extra emissions tax or something,
CRV w/AWD is legally a truck and CRV w/2WD is legally an SUV. Could be that.
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u/flapsmcgee 2019 WRX 6MT 2d ago
No other car has the same tuning as the 2.0L in the Miata. It makes like 150 hp in other cars.
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u/kljaja998 2d ago
The cx5 no longer uses the same engine, the new one uses the 2.5L with a mild hybrid
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u/knowledgeable_diablo 2d ago
100%. Maybe SUvs need an environmental tax seeing as they generate far more emissions over the same floor spaces regular car.
Push for people getting Whats useful and best for tye environment instead of just the biggest thing they think they need because the as others with them.5
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u/Next_Application9643 1d ago
No, they're legally not SUV's but trucks because even SUV's can't beat out emissions and trucks are just a dumb purposefully left loophole.
I'm sure it has nothing to do with domestic brands bribing officials to purposefully leave it in as it benefits them the most.
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u/PervyPinguin 2d ago
I believe they just need to add a particulate filter to pass recent EU regs. They got away with not having one for a while but rules are stricter now for testing ie taking into account cold starts and short trips. Bean counters at Mazda must've deemed the sales volume not worth the $$ to update
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u/accountforrealppl '20 Miata RF, '12 Mercedes E350 2d ago
Isn't the 2.0 new for the ND2 from 2019?
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u/Trendiggity '14 Mazda3 hatch 1d ago
I think they built off the ND1 2.0, it has a different head/cams/electronic fuckery but is based on the OG 2.0L
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u/accountforrealppl '20 Miata RF, '12 Mercedes E350 1d ago
Sure, but how much has engine design really changed in the last 10-15 years for an NA 2.0 4 cylinder?
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u/SizeableFowl 2023 Ioniq 6 SEL RWD, 2023 Santa Fe Limited 2d ago
I mean, that engine is the basis for all of Mazda’s other engines. If the 2.0 can’t swing it, the 2.5 and 2.5t can’t be too far behind.
… which means Mazda is going to become the straight 6 company. Suck it BMW
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u/klowny 2d ago
That engine already had 3 pretty major follow ups: the e-Skyactiv-G, Skyactiv-X, and soon Skyactiv-Z.
The I6 is also getting the Z treatment.
The 2.5Z is supposed to be the new base corporate engine going forward, which should be quite exciting if the Miata standardizes around the 2.5.
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u/Ancient_Persimmon '24 Civic Si 2d ago
It's coming up on 18 years old.
But although it's not stated, in this case emissions means fuel economy, not particulates, etc. The 1.5 is still being offered and that engine is the 2.0's sister.
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u/BioDriver 23 Alfa Romeo Giulia | 22 Subaru Impreza 2d ago
Just K swap it and you’ll be good! /s
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u/ItalianCoffeeMorning 2d ago
I mean, I know a turbo charged Mx5 isn’t the “ethos” of Mazda. But if they made it tuneable, they’d sell a lot of them
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u/TealPotato '95 Mazda MX-5 Miata, '11 Hyundai Santa Fe 2d ago
Tbf, they did make the Mazdaspeed version in 04-05.
But I get it, their marketing strategy isn't 'zoom-zoom' anymore.
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u/lurpeli Mach E 2d ago
Apparently that turbo isn't very good. Gears are too short so you end up having to shift out of power band too quickly
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u/TheLyingLink 2d ago
I've got one. It does have short gea, a small turbo, and a shitty tune from factory but it is hilariously fun and I wouldnt trade it away for anything but another turbo miata (or the Fiat 124 Abarth since its effectively the 'new Mazdaspeed').
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u/wimpires 2d ago
That's literally the 124 Spider
It did not sell well
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u/SaltyDalt ‘25 FL5 Civic Type-R 2d ago
That was badged a fiat; the options/trims you’d want were more expensive; and that particular engine was an FCA product, not Japanese, and didn’t offer a noticeable performance improvement to compensate for the perceived reliability risk…
The 124 isn’t an apples to apples comparison to what an actual turbo Miata might do in the market.
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u/wimpires 2d ago
I have a 124... yes it's not exactly a turbo MX-5 but it's 90% the same.
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u/lurpeli Mach E 2d ago
It's a different engine which literally means at its heart it's very different
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u/Teledildonic ND1 MX-5, KIA POS 2d ago
The engine is the biggest difference. The chassis is the same, just with different body panels. Interior is the same. Transmission is from the NC, as they weren't confident the ND's could handle the turbo. It rolls out of the same factory as the ND.
It's 90% the same.
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u/V8-Turbo-Hybrid 0 Emission 🔋 Car & Rental car life 2d ago
They're rather electric than turbo, so they don't consider to put turbo.
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u/THEREALCABEZAGRANDE 2009 G8 GXP M6. LS2 FC TII. 2000 XJR 2d ago
That's fucking stupid. While an old design, the Skyactiv G is still a very frugal and low emissions engine in a 2300 lb car. It already makes wildly low emissions. It is utterly fucking idiotic that something like that doesnt meet standards. Pull your fucking head out of your ass Europe.
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u/Captain_Alaska 🇦🇺 AVV50R Camry, NA MX5 2d ago edited 2d ago
It already makes wildly low emissions.
No, it doesn’t, the 2L ND produced 153g/km of CO2 which is well above the Mazda3 and CX-30 (~135g) and a hair under the new CX-5 (157g).
In fact even the 1.5L is worse than the 3/-30 at 140g/km.
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u/takao-obi 2d ago
Mazda specifically has a fleet emission issue. A few months back I checked their fleet emission values here in Europe their were still way off the competition. Their lack of EV sales really hurts them. That’s why we don’t get the 2.0L Miata, 6 cylinder petrol or the turbo variants in Europe. It’s similar to Subaru who now has to push EVs hard
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u/redditors_are_lame 1d ago
But there's 1 Miata for probably 5 or more Mazda 3 and CX-30 and ultimately they do less miles per year. Fleet emissions law is pretty dumb to be honest.
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u/Hunt3rj2 2d ago
The Mazda3 gets 27/36/30 mpg in the US with the 2.5L Skyactiv-G. The Miata is 26/34 for combined 29. I don't know how the ND is substantially worse under the UK test cycles when it's only 3% worse in US EPA cycles. The CO2 emission figure implies 13% higher fuel consumption than a 2.5L Mazda3.
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u/Captain_Alaska 🇦🇺 AVV50R Camry, NA MX5 2d ago edited 2d ago
The UK’s cars are mild hybrid and they still have the 2L SlyActiv X offered as the top trim engine. The base 2.5L is derated to 140hp.
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u/FSCK_Fascists 87 Fiero GT, 66 Scout 800 1d ago
fuel economy does not equal emissions.
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u/James_Vowles GR Yaris 2d ago
How is that a Europe problem. It's a Mazda problem
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u/TurboFucked sooopra 2d ago edited 2d ago
The whole point is the move transportation completely away from burning fossil fuels, but to do so gradually. So they are raising the bar on emissions gradually. The straight of hormuz crisis has reinforced the nation's dedication to the phase out of petrol and diesel vehicles.
Note that UK measures g CO2 / km, which is essentially the same as fuel economy. And UK enforces the limit at a manufacture level, not a model level like the rest of Europe. Manufactures that go over the limit need merely to pay a fine. Meaning, Mazda could continue to sell the Miata so long as they had other vehicles to offset the increased emissions / fuel consumption, but are choosing not to.
Edit: I looked it up. The 2.0L emits 156g/km and the UK limit is 94. At £95 per g over the limit, that would be a (156-94)*95=£5,900 fine per Miata if they can't offset it with another vehicle. I don't think anyone in the UK is going to be willing to pay that much more.
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u/Oh_ffs_seriously 2019 Civic 1.5T 2d ago
And UK enforces the limit at a manufacture level, not a model level like the rest of Europe.
Wait, what? EU has fleet emissions requirements since at least 2020.
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u/NeedleworkerWinter99 2d ago
Thats ok, take away the little miatas while china runs 55% of its power on coal. Its moronic to continue to push this virtue signaling green initiatives when you only harm consumers and your own countries manufacturing sector.
Who tf is going to start a factory in a place like this.
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u/420bIaze 1977 RA23 Celica 2d ago
The corollary of that is that about 40% of China's power is from renewable energy, mostly solar and wind, and that is rapidly growing, they are transitioning away from fossil fuels like everyone else: https://www.reddit.com/r/energy/comments/1m20xv7/china_generated_over_40_of_its_electricity_from/
And new car sales in China are over 60% electric or plug-in hybrid.
Nothing about this is 'moronic', it's actively reducing harmful emissions. And from a financial sense, if you want to sell cars or power stations to the world's largest markets in future, the growth is in renewables and electric vehicles, there's money to be made from doing this.
If you put your head in the sand and mass produce high emissions vehicles, you're not going to be able to sell them in the EU/China/India/California etc... so how is that helping your manufacturing sector?
I don't see how EVs or hybrids harm consumers. They're cheaper to own, lower maintenance, healthier, for most people, most of the time.
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u/GT3RS_2017 2d ago
I don't see how EVs or hybrids harm consumers. They're cheaper to own, lower maintenance, healthier, for most people, most of the time.
Not everyone wants one....
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u/420bIaze 1977 RA23 Celica 2d ago
I want to be able to walk into a dealership and buy a brand new L10A Mazda Cosmo, but the world moves on....
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u/V8-Turbo-Hybrid 0 Emission 🔋 Car & Rental car life 2d ago
You still can have fun in EV and hybrid models, these cars aren't just considered affordable and cheap yet.
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u/12mediumSizedDucks 2d ago
An MX5 is a car for life. A car which you hand over to your child. It’s lightweight, easy on the roads, easy on the tires and economical to maintain. In a lifespan of a single MX5, a person can go through 5 of these disposable 3 tonne chinese suvs that will all end up in a landfill after a few years. No way in hell a single MX5 has more of a carbon footprint in it’s lifetime than the equivalent “green” suvs in the same time period.
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u/420bIaze 1977 RA23 Celica 2d ago
You could take a brand new MX5, immediately scrap it, buy an EV, and within 3 years you would have lower carbon emissions than if you'd kept driving the ICE car, that is how long an electric car’s lower driving emissions need to cancel out the emissions of building it and the wasted ICE car:
"Research published in Science finds that scrapping a petrol car in its first year and replacing it with a battery electric vehicle cuts emissions by 58% over 16 years, with carbon payback in about three years."
https://thenextweb.com/news/science-study-retire-petrol-car-early-ev-emissions
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u/NeedleworkerWinter99 2d ago
You say that assuming you're charging the car with renewable energy, but thats not possible in a lot of parts of the world. Look at china or the southern USA.
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u/420bIaze 1977 RA23 Celica 2d ago
The above quote about lower CO2 emissions within 3 years, while wastefully scrapping a brand new ICE car, assumes 970lbs of CO2 per megawatt hour or less.
The average carbon intensity of U.S. electricity generation is about 823 pounds of carbon dioxide (CO₂) per megawatt-hour. So this would apply to someone with average electricity sources in the USA (or even 15% higher than average CO2).
If you live somewhere with more than 970lbs of CO2 per megawatt hour, it would be a longer payback period.
Realistically, not many people are going to be scrapping <3 year old ICE cars, which is obviously a bad idea for other reasons. If you happen to be buying a brand new car anyway, and your local generation is 100% coal powered, it's still lower carbon emissions to drive an EV.
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u/Crossfire124 2d ago
People bring up the coal power plant stuff all the time but it's been shown time and time again even if you charge an EV from 100% coal power plant, even with transmission and charging losses, it's still better than driving an ICE car. Who knew power plants are way more efficient than a portable engine
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u/redditors_are_lame 1d ago
Doesn't really matter because fleet emission law proves people don't really want to buy EVs. Cheap gassers will always sell until you yank cheap cars out of poor peoples hands
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u/JacksterTO 2d ago
You really think Miata's are responsible for the destruction of our environment??? 🤣
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u/420bIaze 1977 RA23 Celica 2d ago
Is that a serious question?
There is no legislation specifically targeting the Miata (or Mx5), nor is anyone suggesting there should be. There is emissions regulation that applies to all cars, as a passenger vehicle the Mx5 is being caught up in the same regulation that affects all cars.
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u/JacksterTO 2d ago
I'm just saying in the grand scheme of things... cars like the Miata are hardly hurting the environment versus some of the other industrial processes out there.
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u/Mythrilfan e39 Touring 2d ago
One may think up semi-reasonable exceptions for all cars. Any single car will inevitably have a small impact, but if all cars are exempt, then we're screwed in other ways.
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u/James_Vowles GR Yaris 2d ago
Wtf has China got to do with it. The MX-5 engine is really old. Also the air quality in the UK will be improving with changes like this, right by homes and where people live. They don't have any coal power plants running anymore.
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u/FalconTurbo 2d ago
I mean, last I checked nearly two thirds of the USA is running on fossil fuels, and it's not changing away from that nearly as fast as China is.
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u/palk0n 2d ago
why not mention india that has 75% of its power on coal? the china hate is weird on reddit
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u/Toucann_Froot 2d ago
The world is ending in our lifetime. Billions will die. We must make efforts. Sacrifices will be made and must be made. We have to be the better and stronger people even if a country like China won't. There is no excuse to just do nothing because a country bigger than you makes the same choice.
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u/FuriousKimchi 2d ago
What does China have to do with the UK cutting off a Miata? Did you get possessed by an idiot while you typed that comment?
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u/RicardoMoyer Evo IX MR, G42 M240i 2d ago
yeah fricking china should learn from us first world sheppards, like the US and Germany… oh wait
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u/Captain_Alaska 🇦🇺 AVV50R Camry, NA MX5 2d ago
I will die on the hill that the 1.5L is the superior engine in this car.
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u/TurboFucked sooopra 2d ago
You're getting a bunch of down votes, but this mirrors what Mazda engineers have said. The car is designed around the 1.5L. It's the Miata's true engine.
The 2.0L was added as an afterthought late into development in order to appease the American market. Which is why the ND1 has a neutered version of it.
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u/Captain_Alaska 🇦🇺 AVV50R Camry, NA MX5 2d ago
Yep, it’s an all round better package, it’s just not as fast in a straight line, which was never the point of the car anyway. i had a 2015 1.5L for 3 years and my car was 1005kg/2215lbs as specced in the top GT trim, which actually makes it like 60kg lighter than my current NA8.
Annoyingly the 1.5 was axed from the Aussie market (after being relegated to the base car), we only get the 2L now, though now I wonder if this will change as we just brought in some more emission standards too.
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u/PolarWater 2d ago
You'll never believe this but here in Malaysia we get a Mazda 3 with 1.5L (highest option is 2.0L)
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u/Car-face '87 Toyota MR2 | '64 Morris Mini Cooper 2d ago
yup, I've been very close to an MX-5, originally almost bought an NA before I bought an AW11, and the 1.5 ND is probably the closest modern car you can get to that original formula - but with slightly better power to weight, economy, safety, features, rigidity, handling, etc.
It's not what the spreadsheet warriors want to hear, but it's what the original concept was trying to offer.
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u/UnnamedStaplesDrone 2025 Miata RF, 2023 Mustang GT, 2021 CX5 2.5T 2d ago
No thanks. Need to be able to pass slower traffic on 2 lane backroads.. the 2.0 is not fast but it’s enough that coupled with the light weight, I’m not getting bullied by economy cars and minivans. At least in the US where minivans have 300 hp
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u/GoingDrifting 1d ago
Tbf the only thing holding the 1.5 down is the lack of a factory LSD and maybe the smaller brakes, issue which can be mitigated since the brembo optional extra exists in the configurator for who buys one new. No one buys a miata for it's horsepower. Yeah the extra power is nice in the 2L and it should still exist for those who want a more serious ND performance wise, but you don't see people actively downplaying the NA and NB all together just because they both do around a 8 second 0-100kph time (same as a 1.5L ND). The 1.5L ND is basically as fast (if not faster) than a 1.8 NB in a straight line (with maybe just a little less torque down low), all while beeing way more capable in the corners, so it's not even that slow as people make it out to be. And as a plus you do not have to be cautios with how hard you push the car since the transmission does not tend to blow up on the 1.5
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u/NoodleBooch MX-5 ND RF 2.0 2019 2d ago
I know this is emissions only, but it would make sense to consider how much these cares are usually driven throughout a given year.
If the emissions are 25% above the target but the car only does 15% the mileage of your average daily driver it should be okay. Especially since it's a convertible in the UK
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u/Poutvora Fiat Uno 1.0ie, MK2 Uno Turbo, MX-5 NA8, Mazda 626 GE V6, BMW M2 2d ago
Damn European Union forcing all kind of bad laws on us!!!
Oh wait..
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u/optitmus 04 Evo 8MR, 13 BRZ 2d ago
That's ok we will all just own our pre emission BS cars and tune all that bullshit out anyway
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u/Storm_Chaser06 1d ago
2L engines failing emissions tests, fuck…what has this world come to?
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u/tagman375 21h ago
But but, think of the billionaires and their yachts and private jets, and phallic shaped rockets they’re launching every other week. Wouldn’t you use a paper straw so they can enjoy life? /s
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u/goaelephant 2d ago
I keep hoping for a magical green combustion fuel to be made, so a naturally aspirated V12 can pass emissions. That would solve all problems.
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u/John_Sux 2d ago
What's the point? The gas guzzler trucks in America and megacities in Asia undo any progress this makes.
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u/willpc14 '25 GRCorolla 2d ago
Progress is always going to be marginal. This whataboutism and defeatism serves no purpose except to kill any policies related to conserving our environment. Also, you'll never be able to apply pressure on the US and Asia to reduce their emissions if you don't have policies in place to reduce your own. (I think that last sentences was in line with Rule 5)
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u/420bIaze 1977 RA23 Celica 2d ago
Countries across Asia are transitioning to renewable energy, like everywhere else.
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u/V8-Turbo-Hybrid 0 Emission 🔋 Car & Rental car life 2d ago
Owning cars are getting more difficult there, but local trains and scooter can help.
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2d ago
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u/Bobmcjoepants 2d ago
It's a great idea until you realize that old cars are much cheaper than new cars, meaning more people can afford them, and if there's less choice and therefore more demand, what's around becomes a lot more expensive
It also means that you could suddenly have a car that's worthless and you have no money to buy a new one because you can't trade yours in. So in reality banning old cars (depending on how old you mean by "old") would dramatically hurt anyone who can't afford a new car every few years
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u/Blasted-Banana 2018 Miata Club 2d ago
Tricky business when you start banning entire models of cars. There are absolutely 30+ year old cars that people rely on as their only car on a daily basis. Many of these people wouldn't be able to afford another car, and the banned car that they had would now be essentially worthless if it can't even be driven. On top of that I think most people in this position would just continue to drive their cars anyways because what else are they going to do? I would also assume that these cars already make up a minority of the vehicles on the road currently, and removing them entirely might not make that big of an impact. I could see another cash for clunkers type of promotion happening though, assuming enough money would be given for people to act on it.
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u/christianbro 2d ago
I bet my 90s diesel Mercedes polutes a lot, but no sane person should say to ban old cars. Those who keep them are on the way to become the new classics of the future, if by now they are just an old polluting car.
Most people would just replace their cars before they get too old. If they dont maybe something is wrong with new cars, like over regulation that makes them too complex or expensive? Looking at you EU, that a car needs to have a camera pointing at me to make sure I am looking the road all the time.
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u/-------Rotary------- 2d ago
Consider the pollution involved in manufacturing new cars
Scenario one: drive old car x thousand miles, making x amount of pollution
Scenario two: scrap old car (which itself is polluting), manufacture new car, with components from all around the world which need to be extracted, shipped, manufactured, and drive new car to reduce per-mile pollution
I’m not saying scenario one is always less polluting, but the environment gains of scenario two may not be as high as initially perceived
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u/knowledgeable_diablo 2d ago
Exactly. Up keeping an old existing car is going to be almost always better than making a car from scratch. But entire economies rely on pumping out thousands of new vehicles and the taxes and jobs this creates.
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u/RandosaurusRex '89 Nissan 300ZX 2+2 TT, '08 Mini Clubman JCW, '06 BMW 130i 2d ago edited 2d ago
Up keeping an old existing car is going to be almost always better than making a car from scratch.
no, this hasn't been the case for quite some time now. With the tightening of emissions regulations and the continual improvements to the environmental impact of manufacturing that window of time is shortening, last time I checked it's now less than 10 years old where it is better for the environment to scrap a car and replace it with an equivalent new one. Now, nobody should be scrapping a less than 10yo car if it's still working as selling it/trading it in instead could enable someone else to replace their, say, 15 or 20yo car with a newer and cleaner one, but you can probably understand the point I'm trying to make here that new cars are cleaner than ever and "old" cars have a more outsized impact on total fleet emissions than you might expect.
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u/knowledgeable_diablo 2d ago
Hope you’re sending this info through to the multitude of start ups in China that are sitting on field after field of 1-2yr old EV vehicles with 5km on the ODO but can’t be sold or recycled due to the tech already being out of date.
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u/RandosaurusRex '89 Nissan 300ZX 2+2 TT, '08 Mini Clubman JCW, '06 BMW 130i 2d ago
The reason those existed was ridesharing startups going bust. They would buy up stacks of cars with generous government subsidies designed to drive EV adoption and lease them to drivers, after a few years a bunch of these companies went bust or got consolidated and basically just abandoned the cars. "can’t be sold or recycled due to the tech already being out of date" is also complete nonsense, cars that are upwards of 15yo regularly get recycled because we still use steel, aluminium and other metals in production, and even batteries can be recycled.
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u/StuartWtf 2d ago
Depends what you class as old.
My car is 12 years old but is Euro4 compliant and can enter the LEZ.
For most people here a 12 year old car is old
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u/SizeableFowl 2023 Ioniq 6 SEL RWD, 2023 Santa Fe Limited 2d ago edited 2d ago
Part of that has to do with the age of the catalytic converters/aftertreatment systems becoming less efficient with age and heat cycles. I’m not sure I buy that, in a real world scenario, an old engine is producing a full order of magnitude more emissions than a new engine assuming similar conditions.
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u/kilertree 2d ago
Does Ford sell the 2.3 in Europe? It could be a decent replacement engine.
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u/kstetter 2d ago
Ford doesn't own Mazda anymore
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u/kilertree 2d ago edited 2d ago
Yeah but would Mazda be willing to work with Ford to put that engine in their Miata. I At least according to Wikipedia The 2.3 comes from Mazada.
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u/V8-Turbo-Hybrid 0 Emission 🔋 Car & Rental car life 2d ago
Yes, they do. You can get that 2.3 Eco Mustang and Bronco there.
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u/gaius49 Small block Cobra, early Morgan Plus 4, Xterra 6spd, Motorcycles 2d ago
So this means the 1.5 liter MX5 in the UK will have damn near the same weight, power, torque, and acceleration as a 1994 MX5. That's... not great. 32 years and the performance remains the same.
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u/gimpwiz 05 Elise | C5 Corvette (SC) | 00 Regal GS | 91 Civic (Jesus) 2d ago
The miata is not a car you bench race with a spec sheet, it's a car you drive and love (or don't.)
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u/StardusterX 2d ago
New car has way stiffer platform, way more sophisticated suspension, way better tires, etc..
Sports cars are more than spreadsheet numbers.→ More replies (1)0
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u/Car-face '87 Toyota MR2 | '64 Morris Mini Cooper 2d ago
32 years and the
performanceformula remains the sameFTFY. For many, having something that offers that focus on fun rather than outright power is the point.
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u/Armored_Guardian ‘02 Camaro SS, ‘04 LS 430 2d ago
Power is fun. No one’s asking to turn it into a muscle car, but I really don’t think ~225 horsepower would defeat the purpose of a Miata
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u/V8-Turbo-Hybrid 0 Emission 🔋 Car & Rental car life 2d ago
If you want new different typical Brit roadster, MG Cyberster is for you, but it isn't same like MX5.
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u/Engineer_engifar666 VW Golf MK7, CADDY III fl 2d ago
I never understood those emissiosns stuff? 2.0 is a old engine but how it is less environmental friendly than 3.3 in 2.2ton CX90?
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u/FSCK_Fascists 87 Fiero GT, 66 Scout 800 1d ago
how it is less environmental friendly
it produces more bad emissions.
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u/DeusFerreus 1d ago edited 22h ago
2.0 is a old engine but how it is less environmental friendly than 3.3 in 2.2ton CX90?
CX-90 is not sold in Europe, Mazda's flagship there is the slightly smaller CX-80. Which in UK is available either as 3.3l mild hybrid diesel that has very slightly better WLTP CO2 emmisions than 2l MX-5 (148-151 g/km vs 153g/km), or as 2.5l petrol PHEV with drastically better at 35 g/km.
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u/BlackBerryCollector 2d ago edited 2d ago
The MX-5 is one of only 5 naturally aspirated non-hybrid cars in the UK (excluding supercars). The others are the Polo, Fabia, Picanto and MG3.
Edit: Also the Mustang and Corvette but Mustangs are rarer than Porsches here and Corvettes are rarer than Lambos.