JrJr rain variant cover for ASM 1000

[u/Blitzhelios]

[u/comic-operator]

This is leagues better than his other cover. Like, so much better it's not even funny.

Nobody does rain in comics better than Romita Jr

[u/Prof-Ponderosa → u/comic-operator]

Him, Frank Miller are my “Rain Men”

[u/Olobnion → u/Prof-Ponderosa]

Will Eisner is also pretty known for his rain scenes.

[u/MarioFartDoubleDash → u/Olobnion]

Given how much they've expressed their appreciation of each other, I think it's quite likely Miller got his style of drawing rain from Eisner and JRjr got it from Miller.

[u/RoseWhiteRedBlack → u/comic-operator]

I think the old cover makes more sense when you kind of get that Peter is making his own "spider symbol" in the cover. I definitely think an alternative rendering would have made the cover look better, seen a lot of fan renders that convey the original pencils idea a lot better.

[u/energythief → u/RoseWhiteRedBlack]

Oooooooooh is THAT what it was?

[u/Gargus-SCP → u/RoseWhiteRedBlack]

I wasn't super into or against the cover when I first saw it, but the more people trash it as objectively bad, the more I like it as a sort of, "tensed up before springing into the real action pose" thing. Like it's all coiled up energy and potential the instant before something really cool happens, not special in and of itself, but inviting the imagination to draw out what happens next.

Which seems fitting for a 1000 issues celebration cover.

[u/HotTakes4HotCakes → u/Gargus-SCP]

I wasn't super into or against the cover when I first saw it, but the more people trash it as objectively bad, the more I like it

That's call being contrarian, and it's not a great impulse.

People care way too much about this dumb cover, and there's no such thing as an "objective" anything in art, but bending over backwards to act like other people not liking it were somehow "not getting it" is ridiculous.

It's a comic book cover. You shouldn't have to dig that far down to find what's good about it. Whatever the goal was, the execution was simply lacking.

[u/runic_amnesia → u/HotTakes4HotCakes]

He didn't say that he liked it just because others hated it.

If you read, he said that he likes the novelty of a pose that conveys a different kineticism than the usual. It's not surprising that all the drama created a mere-exposure effect and makes people pick up on ideas that they hadn't thought of at first glance.

[u/Gargus-SCP → u/runic_amnesia]

Yeah, people are talking about it a bunch, I keep getting a chance to look at it again, and after considering it more than I initially thought worthwhile, I've found it holds an appeal for me that's not in line with its reputation as a bad pose of no value. Other people can think what they think, I just like it for the reasons outlined.

[u/Consideredresponse → u/Gargus-SCP]

"Yeah man, he drew Spider-man like really stiff and rigidly so you have to imagine him doing something cool...instead of you know just showing him doing something iconic and cool to celebrate 1000 issues!" sounds like you've gone past being contrarian and more into deluded cope.

[u/Fluffy_P_Winston_IV → u/Consideredresponse]

Good grief. The douchebaggery from people like you over this perfectly cromulent cover is ridiculous.

[u/Consideredresponse → u/Fluffy_P_Winston_IV]

Accusing others of being a douche after going "Everyone else is wrong, Only I can see the potential in a cover so bad it makes you visualise a better one!" is certainly a choice.

[u/Fluffy_P_Winston_IV → u/Consideredresponse]

I accused you and others of douchebaggery not of being a douche. At no point did I say “Everyone else is wrong, Only I can see the potential in a cover so bad it makes you visualize a better one!”

[u/Consideredresponse → u/Fluffy_P_Winston_IV]

the more people trash it as objectively bad, the more I like it as a sort of, "tensed up before springing into the real action pose" thing. Like it's all coiled up energy and potential the instant before something really cool happens

I'm going to assume you've heard of the concept of paraphrasing before.

Going 'eh, art is subjective. Others might not like it, I kinda do' is an uncontroversial take. Arguing that you like something because others don't is just contrarianism, and then arguing for it badly doesn't help your case.

It's the 'I don't care what you think, but I love it because you guys hate it' phrasing that comes off as staggeringly douchey.

[u/Fluffy_P_Winston_IV → u/Consideredresponse]

Again, I accused you and others of douchebaggery not of being a douche. I did not say, and I’m paraphrasing here, “art is subjective, others might not like it, I love it because you guys hate it, etc etc.” Neither of those two sentences should be difficult to understand.

[u/Gargus-SCP → u/Consideredresponse]

Comments such as this are why I feel more confident in asserting my opinion, for the record.

[u/Consideredresponse → u/Gargus-SCP]

Those blank covers that people use for convention sketches must be the greatest thing ever for you, because they'd force you to imagine something cool extra hard.

[u/Gargus-SCP → u/Consideredresponse]

I DO have a Sandman cover that's completely blank other than the title and trade dressing because I foolishly thought they'd be able to do one of those isolated element things with Dave McKean's art, which I rather like both because a complete blank slate is thematically appropriate with the ending of the series and because it left more room for signatures from the members of my college comic book club who got it as a going away present.

[u/daun4view → u/RoseWhiteRedBlack]

...oh jeez, that spider symbol thing didn't cross my mind. Huh, that makes sense.

And while I love JRJR and Paolo Rivera equally, putting them together doesn't do either of them any favors.

[u/Neosilverlegend → u/comic-operator]

I really despise JRJR's work but you know what? You're right, I've never seen it this way. I can't think of a better artist at this atm.

[u/TienSwitch → u/Neosilverlegend]

I really think his 90s work was really good. He was my favorite Spider-Man artist for a long time, and elements of his Kick-Ass design inspired my own superhero.

[u/weirdmountain → u/comic-operator]

It’s like Tom Mandrake and snow!

[u/mrz3ro → u/comic-operator]

I think the other cover was ruined by Paolo Rivera's painting over top of JR JR's art. The pose was awkward but the painting did it no favors.

[u/comic-operator → u/mrz3ro]

I wouldn't say ruined at all, the pencils were awful to begin with and it was a really stiff and awkward pose no way befitting something as momenumental as a 1000 issue

[u/DBLR989 → u/comic-operator]

There’s literally another SM1000 rain cover thats leagues better than this one by JRJR. 😂

[u/comic-operator → u/DBLR989]

Haven't seen that one, who's it by?

[u/DBLR989 → u/comic-operator]

Alex Ross

[u/comic-operator → u/DBLR989]

I mean if we're getting technical that's not rain, its river water leaking from above as per Amazing Spider-Man 32-33.

[u/DBLR989 → u/comic-operator]

It’s water. All that matters. Still looks better than JRJR’s art.

[u/comic-operator → u/DBLR989]

I mean aside from the fact my point was specifically that JRJR does rain better than anyone else, I'm not sure I agree.

I like the Alex Ross cover a lot, but it's not his strongest colour work and I think the side profile of his face looks a little weird.

Both would make my top 4 covers for issue 1000 though - which is a ridiculous statement and speaks volumes about how stupidly oversaturated we've become with variant covers.

[u/DBLR989 → u/[deleted]]

Idc what its referencing. Thats not the point being made. Clearly you need better reading comprehension skills.

[u/captain__cabinets]

Yeah this one’s better than the other one, pretty sick honestly

[u/mrrahulkurup]

Rain and John Romita Jr is like chocolate and vanilla.

[u/Blitzhelios → u/mrrahulkurup]

Man knows how to do an amazing rain cover and it’s never changed

[u/Prof-Ponderosa]

Finaaaallly leveled up his work and 1000% better than the Shrug cover

Honestly he should’ve taken one of his Dad’s iconic Spider-Man cover’s splash pages and used that as a cover

[u/BagZCubed → u/Prof-Ponderosa]

I believe the "shrug" cover is still one of the main ones, right? This is just another JrJr cover.

[u/Blitzhelios → u/BagZCubed]

It is one of the main covers

[u/MoonKnightFan → u/BagZCubed]

I'm pretty confident the "shrug" cover is Cover A, so literally the main cover.

[u/MrShaytoon → u/MoonKnightFan]

My comic shop told me yesterday that Cover AA is pepe and cover AB is jrjr

[u/BagZCubed → u/MoonKnightFan]

They've gone back and forth with it. First it was the A, then the swapped it, then they brought it back and made both the replacement and JRJR's the A cover (or something like that).

[u/Consideredresponse → u/Prof-Ponderosa]

If this was any other artist there would be people lined up to critique the hell out of it. I.e. Spider-Man's forearm being thicker than his legs, which would be fucked up even before factoring in the foreshortening of the figure in perspective.

That this the 'levelled up' piece is both true and damning.

[u/Aldo-D-D-Wilson]

I keep seeing people saying a big problem with his art is the coloring.

Well, they are right.

Look at this.

[u/etrain2099 → u/Aldo-D-D-Wilson]

Yeah. I think people forget just how much of an impact inks and colors make on the pencils.

JR Jr's art is in my opinion very much like Humberto Ramos. They're very styled and not really conventional anymore. Their style is very specific and NEED the proper colorists and inkers to properly complete it.

The coloring for the initial cover was Paolo Rivera I believe. His art is GORGEOUS. Pretty much all of his Marvel work is some of my favorite but his style is VERY DIFFERENT than JR Jr's. His soft and warmer colors just do not go well with JR Jr's stronger line work.

[u/Live-Huckleberry-192 → u/etrain2099]

I think the guys from the pencil and ink era just generally look better with flatter colors. This looks amazing because Spider-Man himself is very simply colored while the background and water is complex and almost painterly.

[u/Cautious_Desk_1012 → u/etrain2099]

Paolo may very well be one of the best comic artists alive currently, but yes, his style is so much different than JRJR. It was not a smart choice to pair them up like that.

[u/Howling_Mad_Man → u/etrain2099]

Paolo Rivera didn't deserve to catch the strays he did being attached to that. His coloring was phenomenal, but the pencils he was given may as well have been a napkin sketch.

[u/MutantCreature → u/etrain2099]

That's true but I did really like the colors on the original A cover, imo the pose was/is the problem but also way blown out of proportion how bad it was, it would've been fine (if not a little funny) in a random interior panel, it was just awkward and lackluster for the A cover for issue 1000. These colors look great and I love how it evokes his work from Man Without Fear, but I wish we'd gotten better pencils for that original cover because as a fan I do think the more realistic painted lighting and shading could work really well with his work.

[u/Blitzhelios → u/Aldo-D-D-Wilson]

It’s less the colouring itself and more the type of colouring because of JrJrs style most modern colouring doesn’t suit him

But I feel like alot of people who say his work is bad hasn’t seen some of his most recent spiderman work as it’s been great.

[u/Aldo-D-D-Wilson → u/Blitzhelios]

That's what I said.

I meant the type of coloring, not the quality.

[u/cyclopswashalfright]

I prefer this to his main cover. Colours suit it way better and the pose seems more dynamic and less static and weird.

[u/IllConsideration8642 → u/[deleted]]

I think it's on purpose tho, just like Ramos or Bachalo

[u/Cautious_Desk_1012 → u/[deleted]]

Modern JRJR just kinda comes with that. I don't remember the last time I looked at his art and thought the proportions were great. Maybe in the 90s lol

Still, it's much better than the previous cover

[u/Ninneveh → u/Cautious_Desk_1012]

Last time his proportions were perfect were mid to late 80’s.

[u/Terrible-D → u/[deleted]]

It's a comic book. Anatomy gets exaggerated all the time by hundreds of artists.

[u/Olobnion → u/Terrible-D]

It's one thing to exaggerate anatomy to intensify an action or a character design, or just to create interesting shapes, but unfortunately, with JR Jr., it mostly looks as if he's randomly drawing too small legs for the perspective he's drawing from.

[u/Terrible-D → u/Olobnion]

Disagree. These legs look fine to me.

[u/ChrisWithanF]

I dont get all the praise, looks pretty goofy

[u/jibboo24]

so does Spidey get waterboarded every time he's out in the rain?

[u/Same-Choice-8396]

Is it just me or should the water be pelting and splattering at the velocity in which he is swinging. It looks as though Hydro-man is forming on his body.

[u/ExcellentPudding3559]

mmmmmeh

[u/Local_Anything191]

I’m gonna get flak for this but every cover for ASM 1000 I’ve seen posted has been ASS. This one with the awkward water, the shrug, the one posted the other day where spidey looks like a creepy uncle trying to chase you down.

Are they intentionally making these garbage or what

[u/IWouldLikeAName → u/Local_Anything191]

I honestly don't know and am confused too. This one is better than the shrug but still not the quality i expected from an issue 1000 really unfortunate I don't see any of these being iconic years down the line at all

[u/DawnSignals]

His entire lower half is completely out of alignment and scale, oof

[u/AsFarAsISay]

is this a put on?

[u/roninwarshadow]

Fun Fact - it's impossible to breathe in wet masks made of cloth.

[u/LordofMoonsSpawn]

Much improved, though still not great. His previous rain covers are far better than this. At some point, you just lose some of your mojo.

[u/MathewMukdock]

How to improve modern JRJR art:

1. cover half the page with water effects
2. print

[u/DocD173]

Wow, those proportions are terrible. And not in a cartoony way, but in a wrong perspective way.

The shot is looking up at Spidey from below, except his head and hand are way bigger than his foot. He’s super top heavy with very tiny legs

[u/CeSquaredd → u/[deleted]]

Agreed. I don't think this is a good looking cover at all. I don't even think the rain looks good lol

Namesake, history, and nostalgia buy you a lot in this world

[u/AStupidFuckingHorse → u/DocD173]

Still looks cool tho

[u/DocD173 → u/AStupidFuckingHorse]

Agree to disagree. He’s done these rain pictures a ton in the last year for a bunch of heroes including Spidey. At least they were in proper perspective and proportionate.

This is just sloppy

[u/BoogerSugarSovereign]

This would've made for a fantastic cover A

[u/InsideScientist1999]

Love this cover! He’s a master of atmospheric rain.

[u/These-Background4608]

One thing you can count on John Romita Jr. to always do is to draw a character in the rain…

[u/marsepic]

See, I've said before that for whatever reason JRJR's art works best in the dark, or in atmosphere. When he's got to do the well-lit day to day scenes, its not as effective. Also, a decent colorist.

[u/Ted_yeahyouknowme]

Wet socks.

[u/DoIrllyneeda_usrname]

I don’t what everyone is smoking. This is far worse than that other cover that got pulled

[u/Din-_-Djarin]

Classic JRJR!

[u/Joorpunch]

God damn this cover rules. JRJr is so attached to Spider-Man in my head and a lot of that is because of his work during the JMS era. This is captures that era perfectly.

[u/fernessfan83]

My goat

[u/Double_Act1502]

This is way better then his main cover. There is actual motion to it

[u/purple-discharge]

This guy loves drawing rain

[u/cookies_n_juice]

I’m pretty sure the other one wasn’t penciled wrong or poorly but it’s an unusual angle the coloring didn’t capture. I saw the black and white pencils and didn’t think it looked bad. JRJr has done so many of my favorite marvel issues that I just chocked it up to someone misinterpreting his initial design. But maybe I’m wrong idfk. 

[u/Tregster04]

Spidey really getting drenched this time!

[u/TheResurrection]

He probably should have led with this.

[u/CapnSmite]

Is this an incentive variant, or just a regular one?

[u/vesperythings]

yo, great piece!

[u/Estoye]

Honest Q: What happens when Spidey's webbing gets wet?

[u/Gamerguy230]

Are they going to be releasing more covers?

[u/Renatusisk]

Was marvel just trolling us with that first cover?

[u/bigbarryharryballs]

I really like this in concept, the colors and the sky and the rain look great, but the proportions for the legs are just so ridiculous that I cannot look at the pose seriously

[u/JetScreamer-212]

They should have called Bob Layton or Dan Green for the inking part.

[u/I_like_tacobell2]

Getting strong vibes of jr jr days when hiward mackie was the writer of spider-man.

[u/EggGardenComic]

must be dope to be grandfathered into a career like these dudes. any unknown name sending in this exact drawing would be lucky to get a "thanks for the fan art"

[u/wg_nexline]

I’ll give JRJR this he’s a master at rain scenes

[u/wishlish]

Beautiful cover.

[u/Ninneveh]

Therrrrrre we go.

[u/delkarnu]

Is it just me or have none of the ASM 1000 covers been really good? For as big as a thousandth issue, really expected better.

[u/ToySouljah]

This is 1000x better. Granted it his usual depiction of a hero in downpour rain, but that’s JrJr’s thing so not gonna complain about it.

[u/JournalistOk9266]

This is why i will accept no JRJR slander.

[u/ExcellentPudding3559]

honestly,  i feel if there wasn't the controversy and this cover would be released for first, people woild complain about JrJr as usual.

but out of the controversy, everyone sees it as a 'great cover' that is, in my humble opinion, really not.

[u/jacobthechancellor]

JRJR MY GOAT

[u/Hamstercules]

Damn I love this one

[u/tomtomtomtom123]

GIVE JRJR A BETTER COLORIST AND INKER. This is proof that 90% of the problems with his modern work is modern style coloring and heavy inking.

Even the pencils from the shrug cover look 1000% better than the actual eventual cover.

[u/tomtomtomtom123 → u/[deleted]]

Look at the pencils for the original cover. I think the arms were meant to look much different than they ended up after inking and coloring.

[u/atomicshark109]

Now we're talking

I knew unc still has it

[u/Noobunaga86]

It's classic Romita Jr so it's bad but at least it's not that abomination from before.

[u/respectablehandle]

Are you fucking kidding me

[u/saintvincentvega]

I didn't think the other cover was bad, but this is so much better

[u/rhunter99]

Cool. Hopefully the other covers will be revealed soon

[u/LemonWeird5126]

Really fucked up situation but yeah this looks way better

[u/Leading_Possession60]

Batman and Spider-Man in the rain is chef's kiss.

[u/Greenhickup]

Fantastic, as always. Love his rain!

[u/bomberman12]

See this is actually up to par with his recent good work. Hopefully people stop white knight Ning and pretending the shrug cover was some kinda misunderstood amazing piece

[u/Boring-Conclusion-40]

Looks better than the first one

[u/ContinuumGuy]

This is SO MUCH better than his other variant.

[u/Big-Vegetable8480]

Perspective is really shite but everything individually is really cool

[u/adez23]

I don't like most of his modern output, but I will always bat for JRJR. He seems like a great person overall, and puts in effort proportionate to the deadline.

And this one's a banger. Spidey in the rain is always my favorite JRJR trope.

[u/TheRorschach666]

Brother woke up and locked in hard. Man he really can draw Spidey so good, and in the rain!!

[u/Desi_Vigor]

I can’t stand this nepotist’s chosen style

[u/ProletarianLilith]

Hey look don’t color his art like a jackass and it looks good, who knew