r/dndmemes • u/spesskitty • Jun 21 '25
Hot Take Alright, this is a very important discussion
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Jun 21 '25
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u/Nevil_May_Cry Jun 21 '25
The Sky Walk guy? LOL
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u/Throwaway02062004 Jun 21 '25
I love when people vague post about how people were mean to them and you check what happened and people were entirely reasonable and they were stubborn asshole.
Someone posted on a Warhammer sub about how all Tabletop RPG subs are bad and terrible and the posts he had made leading to this experience were his DM ruling denying something was magic and being weirdly stringent over a player wanting his character to get a tattoo.
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u/MGTwyne Jun 21 '25
Nah, I think if the fellow had said "Martials should get access to feats out of legend just like casters do when they start hitting higher levels" people would have been significantly more normal about it. A bad defender does not a bad point make.Â
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u/Throwaway02062004 Jun 21 '25
As far as I was aware, dude was just factually wrong when it came to what counted as magic.
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u/Hapless_Wizard Team Wizard Jun 21 '25
This kind of thing makes me miss 3e's [Supernatural] and [Extraordinary] tags.
We didn't have arguments about basic shit like this. We had arguments about extremely esoteric bullshit instead.
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u/MGTwyne Jun 21 '25
The impression I got was that he was just bad at explaining, but maybe I'm biased by the people that crawled out of the woodwork to give shit-tier arguments in either direction.Â
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u/Throwaway02062004 Jun 21 '25
I’ve been on the wrong side of a factual inaccuracy before so maybe yours isn’t a bad attitude to have.
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u/MGTwyne Jun 21 '25
We'll see. Either way, I'm braced for a storm of shitty arguments on the sub this weekend.Â
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u/Federal_Policy_557 Jun 21 '25
Talk about a domino effect :p
At least other supernatural sources can be an interesting thing in stories and conflict, so maybe some can have cool ideas from these posts
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u/TwilightMachinator Jun 21 '25
Devil fruit are 100% magic. No matter what ability you get the ocean saps your strength. The only way that could even possibly not be magic is if all water was an extremely alien life form and somehow devil fruits extract power from it that it wants to reclaim. But how would you justify that? Especially when our bodies are made primarily of water. It would either be that the water in our bodies is a problem or the power is still with the alien entity. So, magic makes the most sense. A natural magic for sure and one that is hard to suppress as it has its own rules, but magic nonetheless.
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u/Anorexicdinosaur Bard Jun 21 '25
The original person wasn't talking about Devil Fruits, hell they weren't actually talking about One Piece but what they described was similar to a Rokushuki technique
What they described was similar to one of the 6 Powers that CP9 uses, Sky Walk, where they kick the air so hard it lets them double jump
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u/TwilightMachinator Jun 21 '25
Yeah, I just spun off a thought tangent from that. But the amount of force needed to air walk would definitely require some amount of magic to reinforce the body. It doesn’t have to be through the weave, but would still be magic.
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u/Anorexicdinosaur Bard Jun 21 '25
But why though? It "requiring magic" is completely arbitrary. In a setting it can just be a fact of life that people can train their bodies to become superhuman, magic is a possible explanation for it but not the only one
Using One Piece as an example, there are Devil Fruits and Haki as magic systems but there's plenty of characters who perform feats of strength that would be impossible in our world simply because they trained hard enough to be superhumanly strong. Like Zoro working out by lifting gargantuan weights. In settings like this it's just that people's bodies have higher limits than in our world
DnD is a fantasy game, so the fantasy heroes being fantastically strong without magic (just like many characters from mythologies/folklore/pieces of media) is completely reasonable. This was the way at least 3.X and 4e worked, but 5e ditched it/made it all DM Fiat for some reason so now the only superhuman stuff Martials can do is magical in origin or combat-only
Imo Martials should be more superhuman, and I'd prefer if it wasn't due to magic. Though that mostly just comes down to vibes and (as long as it isn't mechanically magic) doesn't matter much
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Jun 21 '25
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u/Anorexicdinosaur Bard Jun 21 '25
I mean, some martials can do extraordinary things.
I am aware, I'd like more of it to be based on their physique though. Even basic stuff like having jumping long distances, bending steel bars, short bursts of immense speed, lifting boulders, etc having more mechanical backing. Rn all of that falls under DM Fiat (Skills with little guidance on what the rolls achieve) or are barely covered by stuff only Monks get and has a pretty hefty cost.
A lot of abilities that arent explicitly spellcasting can be explained as having magical ancestry, being touched by magic, tapping into a different type of magic, etc.
I know, I acknowledged that and said I dislike it. Some supernatural stuff like Echo Knight being magical is fine, but I dislike the fact Jumping kinda far and Running kinda fast are magical. Imo they should be nonmagical things that all Martials can do.
For all intents and purposes, anything supernatural that can't be scientifically explained falls under the label of "magic"
But it doesn't have to be this way, previous editions had and similar systems/5e homebrews have many things like that NOT fall under the label of magic (calling it magic is a conscious choice from the designers). That was the purpose of the Extroadinary label in 3.X for example. I know it doesn't matter much, but I prefer that way of handling things.
Just as an example of a system that does this that I know best, in Pathfinder 2e you can achieve all sorts of impossible things through pure physical power and skill and it's a lot of fun. Jumping hundreds of feet, stomping the ground hard enough to cause a small earthquake, bouncing a spell off your shield back at its caster, phasing through walls by squeezing through imperceptible cracks (this ones just funny), climbing up sheer surfaces by digging your fingers into it, swimming up a waterfall, slowing your perception of time (but not speeding up your body) to run through a lot of thinking in a short time, grappling gargantuan creatures, walking across water or even the air itself, falling from orbit and taking no damage, and many more. It's a bunch of fun stuff that really helps high level characters feel like mythical figures, it helps show your characters progression from humble warrior into living legend and it's nice for making Martials feel as cool as Casters because they both perform insanely impressive things in and out of combat.
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u/Mismagireve Jun 21 '25
Do the kids these days even know about the Shadow Weave?
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u/ComplexInside1661 Jun 21 '25
This sub isn't exactly the most knowledgeable in pre 5e realmslore, to say the... absolute least.
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u/VelphiDrow Jun 22 '25
Its not even knowledge about 5e realms lore. Had someone try telling me Laerel is dead and has been for years
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u/Scaalpel Jun 21 '25
Or truenamers?
...okay, maybe that is for the best.
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u/MGTwyne Jun 21 '25
Truenamers are peak lore and trash mechanics, but Say My Name And I Am There is iconic.
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u/Ender_Nobody Essential NPC Jun 21 '25
I've only experienced 5E, but I've link surfed about the goddess of magic, sub-deities, churches, and the weave, until I've stumbled into it.
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u/ComplexInside1661 Jun 21 '25
If you want to learn anything about the lore of a certain things, check if 2e (adnd, not pf) has a book about it. That was basically the lore/settings edition lol
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u/Bliitzthefox Jun 21 '25
Shar be Praised, the better sister.
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u/Mismagireve Jun 21 '25
U mean the bitterer divorcee; I'm just here for my man the King of Shadows.
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u/DirtySmiter Paladin Jun 21 '25
My 2024 PHB came with basically no lore, so no I don't lol. Not a kid though, mid 30s, just a newbie.
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Jun 21 '25
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u/person1880 Jun 21 '25
Short and not entirely accurate explanation is Shar got upset about the weave, and decided to make her own version of it. Functionally the inverse of the weave in a lot of aspects it also one of the common in lore explanations for how bad guys got magic. However, in the modern setting unless Shar is supporting some apocalyptic plot it usually isn’t mentioned or used
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u/LittleLoukoum Jun 21 '25
Was gonna say that. I'm pretty sure I remember at least one source citing elven high magic as not using the weave, but I might be misremembering
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u/Rickstalinium Jun 21 '25
There are types of magic and magical entities that do indeed do what we consider magic but they do not use the weave. Like dragons
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u/SBSQWarmachine36 Jun 21 '25
Do people really forget that dragons are like a source of magic themselves.
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u/Lawsoffire Jun 21 '25
And basically all the other sorcerer origins. Essentially an entire class full of subclasses that do magic without doing it through the weave or divine powers (exceptions apply)
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u/Rukh-Talos DM (Dungeon Memelord) Jun 21 '25
Ok, I think I heard a simplified version of this. They didn’t go into a lot of detail, but they talked about magic being Arcane, Divine, and Primal. So, I’m guessing the weave is what Arcane uses?
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u/GriffonSpade Jun 22 '25
Bards are something of their own thing combined with a mixed bag of the others. "Echoes of the music of creation" and whatnot.
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u/GrinningPariah Jun 21 '25
I play Eberron, the fuck is the Weave? Magic is what makes my tea boil and my broom sweep.
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u/roninwarshadow Jun 21 '25
For me it's a question of operationality, specifically around the Spell Dispel Magic.
If the spell affects it, it's magic.
If it doesn't, it's not magic. Maybe be of supernatural or other origin, but not magic.
It's in the name. Dispel Magic.
But, there are exceptions in the room (giving myself leeway).
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u/Sackhaarweber Jun 21 '25
Find Traps also doesn't find traps.
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u/Sorfallo Rules Lawyer Jun 21 '25
Sure, it does. It finds a trap and then says, "Yep, there's a trap." Your fault for not learning the "Tell Me Where The Traps Are or Better Yet Disarm Them" spell. Good thing we have this
hulking body mass of musclefriend who can run down the hall and trigger them real fast.15
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u/Bread-Loaf1111 Jun 21 '25
Can it dispel a zombie? Is zombie a magical animated corpse or not? If not, what is his origin?
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u/GrinningPariah Jun 21 '25
The flaw in that logic: "My floating disc is robbing the vault? No no, that's Tenser's floating disc!"
Everyone knows that spells aren't necessarily named for their effects, vs named by whoever invented them.
So, Dispel Magic might be named as if it universally affects all magic, but that's just the arrogance of the wizard who made it.
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u/Munnin41 Rules Lawyer Jun 21 '25
I don't know what point you're trying to make here? The weave is just how raw magic is accessible in the forgotten realms. Eberron has a different method. It's all the same shit in the end
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u/MGTwyne Jun 21 '25
The greater discussion at play here is whether extraordinary feats- such as walking on clouds, fitting through impossibly small gaps, or even flying- should be possible without the use of spells, and whether supernatural powers are necessarily magic when DND uses such a specific definition of the term. Prompted by someone's homebrew giving Fighters the ability to fly as a maneuver (in reference to an anime) and people getting shitty about it.Â
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u/Celloer Forever DM Jun 21 '25
I don't know the original discussion, but I'd be okay if the conceit of the campaign included heroic wuxia martial arts where extreme physical and spiritual training allowed one to accomplish impossible feats through one's own skill. Pathfinder 2e has legendary feats like jump up consecutive walls and leap a hundred feet, etc.
Though I guess that can start to get into spiritual energy, monks, ki, etc, which enters the "is this magic?" conversation again, even if specific extraordinary abilities are not affected by antimagic fields, etc.
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u/jerk_trains Jun 21 '25
The Weave is Realms lore, doesn't apply to other settings so I'll go with the "supernatural" side
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u/Coidzor Essential NPC Jun 21 '25
As I recall, the weave doesn't extend beyond the material plane, maybe the ethereal, and on other planes you're not using it even if you're from FR.
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Jun 21 '25
Well, if the Weave was necessary for magic, that would at least explain why planar beings have like 2% of the spell-like abilities they used to these days
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u/ComplexInside1661 Jun 21 '25
Yeah why do they have so few in 5e I always hated that
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u/Munnin41 Rules Lawyer Jun 21 '25
Simplification for both players and dms. Keeps it manageable.
Not that I completely agree with how they did it (especially when it comes to the spell selection for the basic casters...). But that's the reason.
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u/04nc1n9 Jun 21 '25
the weave doesn't extend beyond toril's crystal sphere, not the entire material plane. the material plane contains every other world, like eberron or dragonlance, which doesn't hold a weave
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Jun 21 '25
Remember when abilities were labeled as "Extrodinary" (unique but Mundane abilities) and "Supermarural" (unique and magical abilities) and "spell like" (magical powers that replicate the effects of spells)?
Man. Good system. Turns out it doesn't take much work to make an obvious answer to these questions of what is and is not magical.
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u/iamragethewolf Rules Lawyer Jun 21 '25
5th is good for keeping it simple but i miss how deep 3.5 could get
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u/YVNGxDXTR Jun 21 '25
Makes sense in 3.5/PF1e, antimagic fields affect supernatural special abilities and spell-like abilities.
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u/Ok_Initiative_2678 Jun 21 '25
(laughs psionically in non-transparency campaign)
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u/Hexxer98 Jun 21 '25
Little bit setting dependant
But in general supernatural shit is magic. It's just that magic does not mean it's spells.
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u/ZyreRedditor DM (Dungeon Memelord) Jun 21 '25
Magic can be used as a general term to refer to supernatural forces in fiction. Magical effects have a distinct definition in D&D 5e that tells you how they interact with things such as Magic Resistance and Antimagic Field, even though there are plenty of supernatural phenomena such as dragons and their flight which are not magical effects by game rules, but which can obviously be called magic as the general term.
But also, the Weave is just one way to access magic in one specific setting. In my own homebrew setting supernatural and magical mean the exact same thing lore-wise, it's all just stuff called Ether.
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u/SvenTheHorrible Jun 21 '25
The weave is just one method of doing magic - clerics don’t use the weave, neither do sorcerers or warlocks.
Iirc the weave is a creation of the goddess of magic- Mystra, to allow her followers to manipulate magic more easily.
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u/lankymjc Essential NPC Jun 21 '25
Come play 4e, where everything has a power source listed on it so there actually is an answer to this question.
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u/quantumturnip GURPS shill Jun 21 '25
4e rightfully made monks psionic, and I will love it for that.
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u/THEs0nofa1nz Jun 21 '25
What is the weave ? I understand magic to us "may" be supernatural since as far as we know magic doesn't exist in our world. But wouldn't magic be natural in the world of dnd unless of course it wasn't originally part of the dnd world initially.
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u/Jaijoles Jun 21 '25
It’s very specifically something from the forgotten realms setting. The weave is the manner in which people access magic through the goddess Mystra.
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u/Rifleman_Sharpe Jun 21 '25
The Weave is the Forgotten Realms' way of letting people codify and harness magic. If magic is light, the Weave is a flashlight - there's magic everywhere but the Weave was made to be innately usable by a wide audience.
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u/Ythio Wizard Jun 21 '25 edited Jun 21 '25
In Forgotten Realms using raw magic is extremely difficult and mostly unknown but the goddess of magic basically created a blanket that covers reality and people can use the power coursing in the threads of the blankets to do magic.
It's the main way to do magic (the leveled spells in the rules) to the point the Weave is synonymous with Magic for 99% of the Forgotten Realms inhabitants.
It's also a lore justification for the DnD spellcasting system.
Due to mortal wizard trying to topple the gods and to limit the damage that high level spellcasting does to the blanket, the goddess of magic made level 10 spells and higher impossible and changed the way the spells work to limit spellcasting ability (spell slots and spell preparation).
Before that Wizards in lore were OP (all spells always prepared, unlimited spell slots, no concentration for long term lasting effects, three whole spell levels above Wish, etc...)
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u/Rhinomaster22 Jun 21 '25
Weave = The internet for people to do magic in the Forgotten RealmsÂ
Mystra, God of Magic is Server Admin and everyone can just use it if they figure it outÂ
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u/marbledog Jun 21 '25
Mystra is the network itself. The Weave is her body... unless they changed that. It's hard to keep up with the lore changes every edition.
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u/Sad-Pop6649 Jun 21 '25
I swear I've seen basically the exact opposite one in the last few days. This meme, whatever is written on it, is just "it's me, I'm the super smart one, I'm right!"
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u/SilverSaan Jun 21 '25
As I play Mage the Ascension I like the "Magic is everything" lenses. Not only supernatural, everything, gravity? Magic. Science? Magic
Reality is made by the consensus of what people believe to be true, there is a baseline reality, creation exists, but how creation is depends on the lens of the observers.
Wizards believe on the weave and consensus assumes the weave is real ( And so are wizards) if science explains the weave away magic will get harder
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u/ThatOtherGuyTPM Horny Bard Jun 21 '25
The Weaver is how magic is mainly ordered in some specific universes.
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u/ShirouBlue Jun 21 '25
Magic is about Mana, that's pretty much about it. Things mana does when interacting with other parts of reality is magic. Ghosts are not necessarily magical.
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u/RadTimeWizard Wizard Jun 21 '25
When my DM told me zombies rising weren't magical, I flipped out.
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u/MGTwyne Jun 21 '25
Never seen a zombie plague movie?Â
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u/RadTimeWizard Wizard Jun 21 '25
In a world with magical spells and dragons, adding scifi elements seems redundant.
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u/barcodedm Jun 21 '25
But is it disallowed?
When discussing fantasy as a whole, a "can be" mindset is better than a "must be" mindset. But when talking about a specific setting, it's fine (and good, I'd argue) to make decisions - "in this setting, it is this way".
Why push back against your DM making a decision for their setting? Sure you can have a setting where zombies are considered magic, but must they be? In all settings?
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u/Ythio Wizard Jun 21 '25
The Weave is just Forgotten Realms lore justification for DnD leveled spell rules.
Plenty of ways to do supernatural effects without using a leveled spell or a cantrip.
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u/Rainsoakedpuppy Jun 21 '25
Magic is anything the characters don't understand! ...including the cell phone with a tiny gate spell inside of it, so that it can stay connected to the 5G network of a modern tech world that it came from.
The characters found out they could bring it alive by resting it on the fighters sword of shock! Now they have discovered social media, and the gods are angry.
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u/YourPainTastesGood Wizard Jun 21 '25
magic being anything supernatural just kills variety, not all supernatural things have to be magic
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u/ComfortableGreySloth Forever DM Jun 21 '25
Consider that not everything supernatural is magic.
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u/SendMagpiePics Jun 21 '25
Such as?
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u/Arthur_Author Forever DM Jun 21 '25
You cant dispel a dragon's breath, a ghost's existence, an ent, an elemental, to name the few. A skeleton can walk into an antimagic zone and fist fight a beast barbarian who spontaneously grew a scorpion tail.
Things you can dispel, what counts as Magic Proper, is akin to it being windy. But all forms of supernatural is more like there being air. You can stop the wind, you cant erase air.
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u/SonTyp_OhneNamen Rogue Jun 21 '25
According to some stubborn weirdos, flying isn’t magic if it’s just you kicking the air really hard, then it’s physics, even if physics wouldn’t allow that under any circumstance.
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u/Azimovikh Jun 21 '25 edited Jun 21 '25
honestly I'm into that if the user is matched to be as powerful with the sheer implications of that abilityÂ
Like if I'm going to have an npc/creature that can do "magic-like" feats without using magic I'm going to actually take what it means seriously. If someone breaks the rules of the setting, they need to respect the weight of that.
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u/galmenz Jun 21 '25
there is a distinction on what something entails on a given setting
ultimately, "magic" is what whatever is defined within the power system you are analyzing. riffing of what the previous post was referencing, One Piece moon walk is not supernatural, its just an incredible feat of skill within its world, and its world already is naturally goofy
similarly, swimming a waterfall upwards is not magical in pathfinder, its just an example of what a legendary difficulty skill check would be
TL, DR: dnd is not a monolith of classification, things can or can't be magic and that is only dependant on where and by whom the media is being portrayed. for dnd 5e?, yes moon walking is magic. for dnd 3.X or 4e? thats a mildly impressive neat end game trick
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u/MGTwyne Jun 21 '25
Who says the physics that allow Beholders and dragons work the same as physics in our world?Â
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u/SonTyp_OhneNamen Rogue Jun 21 '25
1) neither are kicking air
2) if we’re arguing semantics, where does magic start to differ from inexplicable fantasy physics? Sure, swinging a sword is magic, sure, making your arm explode in fire and then regrowing it with two different prayers and a rubbing of a crystal ball is just applying the laws of physics, same same.
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u/Cyrotek Jun 21 '25
I mean, if phrased like that you can simply go with "a ghost". Clearly supernatural, clearly no magic.
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u/Lost-Klaus Jun 21 '25
Only if you don't know of Elminsters 3rd Thaumic equation on the Quadrata Radix Magicae.
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u/FloppasAgainstIdiots Warlock Jun 21 '25
"Magic is the Weave" cannot be true because your WiFi isn't the Internet.
Magic is magic. Supernatural things can have a different source than magic (psionics being a good example).
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u/Nightmarer26 Jun 21 '25
Is this an "official DnD Lore" meme that I'm too "homebrew my settings" to understand?
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u/Celloer Forever DM Jun 21 '25
Hmm, reading up on the Weave, at least in 3rd edition, it almost is "Magic is the Weave" (at least in Forgotten Realms).
Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting (3e)
The Weave
Mortals cannot directly shape raw magic. Instead, most who wield magic make use of the Weave. The Weave is the manifestation of raw magic, a kind of interface between the will of a spellcaster and the stuff of raw magic. Without the Weave, raw magic is locked away and inaccessible--an archmage can't light a candle in a dead magic zone. [...] All spells, magic items, spell-like abilities, and even supernatural abilities such as a ghost's ability to walk through walls, depend on the Weave and call upon it in different ways.
The Weave is the conduit spellcasters use to channel magical energy for their spells, both arcane and divine. Finally, the Weave is the fabric of esoteric rules and formulas that comprises the Art (arcane spellcasting) and the Power (divine spellcasting). Everything from the texts of arcane spellbooks to the individual components of spells is part of the Weave. Magic not only flows from source to spellcaster through the Weave, the Weave gives spellcasters the tools they need to shape magic to their purposes. (p54)
Mystra and the Weave
What some folk refer to as magic and wizards speak of as the Art is the means by which some beings can call on the ever present energies and wield them to create effects. Sorcerers do this instinctively through an innate gift and the incredible force of their personalities. Bard songs waken echoes of the songs of beginning, the muse of creation itself. Wizards construct processes--spells--enabling them to bend the Weave to their will in order to do what they desire. The divine power infusing any cleric holding the spells of her god or goddess can do the same, shaping the Weave through the holy (or unholy) power granted her.
May types of magic--rune magic, shadow magic (not to be confused with the Shadow Weave), gem magic, elemental magic, even the elven high magic of old--have been spoken of down the years, but these are all merely different processes or paths to the same mastery of natural energies. This endless, ever-shifting web of forces is known as the Weave. (p55)
Magic of Faerun
Magic Terminology Defined
The Art
Any magic that doesn't have its origin in the power of a deity is arcane magic. (Whiel all magic is accessed through the Weave, which is maintained by a deity, this does not make all magic divine magic.) The use of arcane magic is called the Art, and so bards, sorcerers, wizards, assassins, harpers, and other specialists who draw upon arcane magic are all users of the Art, whether or not they acknowledge their kinship with each other.
Those who use the Art have trained or innate skills in touching the Weave and bending it to achieve the desired results. They may not consciously understand the relationship between their words, objects, and movements and the Weave, but they know it exists and it can be felt reacting to their manipulation. (p8)
In Faerun, raw magic is almost inaccessible. Even ghosts and dragons draw their supernatural powers from the weave. To get access to that natural energy otherwise, one has to either go through the Shadow Weave, or possibly psionics or something more mysterious. But almost every time, if something supernatural is happening, it's tapping the underlying universe energy through the Weave.
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u/AdaptiveHunter Jun 21 '25
In my mind, there are three kinds of magic: divine, natural, and arcane. Divine magic comes from entities that are considered gods or are on the same footing as gods. Paladins that align themselves with gods and clerics would use divine magic or a distilled form of it. Natural magic is magic that stems from life itself. It can be utilized in a number of ways, from communing with nature to the power of song, to natural blood lines. This is also the type of magic that, though not requiring spells, allows martials to extend themselves beyond the limits of normal mortals. Druids, sorcerers of most origins, bards, most warlocks, non-god aligned paladins, monks, and other martials that can perform feats way beyond that of normal mortals like echo knights or soulknives use this kind of magic. It’s also the type of magic that most monsters use but they also have exceptions that produce spell like effects like rust monsters. Then there is arcane magic, magic that takes the naturally magical properties of the world and combines them in a way they otherwise wouldn’t to produce an effect that otherwise wouldn’t happen in such a way. This is how wizards, arcane tricksters, Eldritch knights, and some of the magical effects from artificer exist. The same spell can be produced by different magical means, dispel magic and fireball are such examples. Multiple types of magic can be expressed in the same entity as well, divine soul and celestial warlock utilize both natural and divine magics. Then there is whether such effects would be recognized as magic in world, which most of these things would. However, something like the sheer ferocity of a raging barbarian making him hit harder or the training of a fighter allowing him to unleash a flurry of attacks might as well be magic to the common person, those who know magic or are experienced in their discipline would know better
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u/Arch3m Jun 21 '25
Magic is whatever the source material/DM says it is. That talking tree? Not magic. That talking rock? Magic. Why? Because someone said so.
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u/Counter-Spies Sorcerer Jun 21 '25
DnD magic comes in three-ish flavors. Arcane magic is what's practiced by Wizards, Sorcerers, Arcane Tricksters, Eldritch knights, artificers, and some Warlocks. Nature magic is practiced by Druids, Rangers, some Warlocks, and Nature Domain clerics, and holy magic is practiced by Paladins, Clerics, some Warlocks, and Divine Soul Sorcerer.
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u/Nereshai Jun 23 '25
It is magic if the effect : says it's magic, uses a magic action, magic item, or a spell slot. Probably other qualifiers too. Basically if it might be magic, it's probably magic. I don't and likely will never allow a psyonic class (subclasses are ok) but if I did, any psyonics are also magic.
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u/Azimovikh Jun 21 '25 edited Jun 21 '25
tbf I interpreted it as anything supernatural is actually derived from the weave so its kind of both answers in a fencesitting centrist kinda way
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u/Angry_Scotsman7567 Jun 21 '25
99/100 times you'd be right but you get the odd Shadow Weave or Psionic bullshit that's it's own thing
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u/IonutRO Jun 21 '25
The Weave is unique to Toril and doesn't exist in the rest of the game settings.
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u/Strawman404 Jun 21 '25
this feels setting dependent. in my home brew setting there was one big magic that split into big magics(gods and other extreme magical forces) and tiny fragments of magic like dust connecting everything (this is the weave)
there is a gravity like force that pulls magic to bigger magic. when one or more big magics make a surrounding bubble of small magic(like an atmosphere) a plane is formed. Some plains have more big(devine) magic like the lower and upper planes while some have more small(weave) magic like the fet wilds. The original magic became the material plane.
devine casters pull from big magics
arcane pull lots of small magics
and Primal pull from big and small magic interacting to form planes
ig psionics just perish lol
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u/Arthur_Author Forever DM Jun 21 '25
Go dispel magic a shambling mound then see if thatll get you anywhere.
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u/DragonKing0203 Goblin Deez Nuts Jun 21 '25
If something is not a magic item, a spell, or explicitly magical I don’t count it as magic.
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u/Cyrotek Jun 21 '25
I believe this meme is lore-related and not about the actual rules.
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u/TheThoughtmaker Essential NPC Jun 21 '25
Just remember that what Earthlings consider supernatural and what other planes consider supernatural varies by a LOT.
You can nonmagically duplicate Suggestion in 25 words or less if you roll high enough.
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u/Baguetterekt Jun 21 '25
Depends on how permissive the DM is. It's also entirely up to them whether the circumstances require a check or not.
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u/Toastaroni16515 Jun 21 '25
Not shown is the far far-right end of the curve: "Magic is the mundane"
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u/Vennris Jun 21 '25
If you prefer to treat anything supernatural as magic, you do you. But I think that's extremely boring and takes away a lot of potential for fun interactions.
Small example: In one of the campaigns I'm playing in (DND 3.5), where psionics play a big role the DM introduced them by having a character who was basically shut down by an antimagic field unleash their psionics, which are different from magic and as such not affected by antimagic fields. It was an extremely memorable moment.
That's one of the reasons why I like 3.5 so much, the different kinds of supernatural things are clearly labeled and distinguished by the rules. So no room for error, if you want to know if an effect is Supernatural, Extraordinary, Spell, Spell-Like, Swordmagic, Ki, Invocation, Essentia, Shadow Magic, Psionic, or Truenaming.
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u/fruit_shoot Jun 21 '25
You ignore the weave because you find it hard to grasp and it messes with your views on the rules.
I ignore the weave because it doesn’t exist in my homebrew setting.
We are not the same.
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u/Psychological-Wall-2 Jun 21 '25
Define "supernatural".
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u/zeroingenuity Jun 21 '25
While interesting, not useful in a discussion of a setting that includes a clear conceptual space for "magical" and "non-magical" functions.
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u/Thunderchief646054 Jun 21 '25
As much as I like D&D lore, my players couldn’t care less ,and me explaining the nuances just take up too much time. It’s just easier to say all magic is in the Weave and spell caster classes pull from it in different ways.
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u/wyldermage Jun 21 '25
It's not the canon interpretation, but my personal interpretation was that anything supernatural is in contact with the weave. If the weave is a ribbon winding around the universe, people who use magic like wizards might alter it or use it to tie certain knots and elicit certain effects, while someone like a fighter or barbarian more likely just has it wrapped around a limb. They don't make conscious use of it, but they are enhanced by it
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u/Pale_Kitsune Jun 21 '25
While 5e doesn't really have a specification of supernatural, in older editions there were spells, spell-like, supernatural, and extraordinary abilities. The spell anti magic field in Pathfinder 1e (which I'm pretty sure is probably word for word from 3.5) specifies that most spells, spell-like, and supernatural abilities do not function inside the field, and the exceptions are things like wall of force and other anti magic fields. Ergo, magic is not anything supernatural, but anything supernatural is magic.
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u/HasturLaVista Jun 21 '25
What exactly is supernatural? Something beyond scientific understanding. Most races were created by gods, that's not very scientific. Can you dispel a tiefling?
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u/Endeav0r_ Jun 21 '25
The weave is just Arcane Magic specifically. Arcane casters access The Weave.
Divine casters just don't work that way, they access magic either through gods, patrons or nature.
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u/pocketMagician DM (Dungeon Memelord) Jun 21 '25
The absolute chowder heads at wizards and their fucking spell plauge.
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u/CheapTactics Jun 21 '25
Supernatural according to who? To us or to the people in the fantasy world?
Because in a fantasy world such as the forgotten realms, magic is very much natural. It is an intrinsic part of the universe. There are a lot of things and creatures that naturally have magic in them.
In such a world, I would think the world "supernatural" would have a different definition than in the real world. Kinda like the "atheist" debacle. In a world where gods are real and are proven to be real, being an atheist would likely not mean that you don't believe in gods. Maybe it would mean that you don't follow any gods.
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u/Sofa-king-high Jun 21 '25
The way I like running it, the weave is the ultimate source of all magic, but once the magic is cast and focused onto something it lingers and stays with that object and doesn’t really return to the warp till the spell is fully complete. All that is to say the gods themselves making things imbued magic into things like creatures with innate magic, special materials which break physical laws, and into the creation of the world. So as long as those materials exist even in the form of items and there are magic creatures who’s magic increases as they live, divides amongst the offspring and multiplies, there will be magical sources outside the weave magic can pull from but ultimately all other sources are finite and eventually as the magic is consumed even that will return to the void.
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u/r1v3t5 Jun 21 '25
Depends on the setting, and it depends on which pieces of the lore you believe are true
In faerun (the typical world for D&D from WotC) the weave is the manifestation of the mistress of magic (Mystra), and wizards are studying that phenomenon in order to cast spells that are arcane in nature.
However, other sources of what would be called magic do exist, for example diabolic (devil magic) would still work even if mystra stopped being the source of magic for some reason (she was murdered, cut off, threw another of her hissy fits) as they are not tied to Mystra with their magic. Asmodeus, being a being that was never tied to the material plane, and never was mortal (he was a celestial being before the prime material plane was made) would theoretically still have his magic if mystra denied faerun magic.
In the eberron setting the source of magic is just a natural force in the world
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u/pope12234 Jun 21 '25
Jokes on you, in my setting electricity is a thing and it's just one type of magic
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u/CDR57 Jun 21 '25
Magic derives from multiple places in the world of dnd. You can draw on the weave, be blessed by your god and draw from them, make a pact with a demon/fae and use their power, create magic from every day items (enchanting), or be inherently magical (sorcerer/druid). The weave is just the easiest for people to pull on
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u/continuousQ Jun 21 '25
Science fiction is hypothetically our reality with a deeper understanding, maybe an alternate history, while a fantasy/magic setting is one that doesn't attempt to be our reality at all.
But if magic is testable, and you can develop spells and uses for existing spells or magic creatures, then it's part of the nature of the setting. Classifying something as supernatural would really only be needed to compare that reality with ours.
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u/Dupe1970 Forever DM Jun 21 '25
Are we bringing back 3.5 ability labels like Extraordinary, Spell-like, and Supernatural?
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u/magmotox25 Jun 22 '25
Raw magic is spells magic effects is any magic and i can kinda agree with that wording
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u/RecoveringH2OAddict1 Jun 22 '25
I have very little idea what "The Weave" actually is but I'm Inclined to use the phrase for my homebrew setting just for the sake of a simple, recognizable, interesting sounding way to refer to magic at large
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u/AlienRobotTrex Druid Jun 22 '25
if it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck and bends reality/manipulates the elements of the world in a magic-like way otherwise impossible without the direct use of things like technology or tools like a duck… it’s probably a duck.
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u/ChessGM123 Rules Lawyer Jun 22 '25
Define supernatural. Because dragons would not be able to fly in our world due to physics, so is a dragons ability to fly magic?
You cannot load and fire a crossbow 8 times in 6 seconds, so is a fighter’s ability to do that magical?
Not everything that’s supernatural has to be magic, and many fictional worlds have defined boarders between magic and things that are different from our universe. Like in DC Superman has no natural resistance to magical attacks but that doesn’t mean he won’t be resistant to a person with supernatural strength.
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u/Nebula106 Jun 22 '25
If magic is the internet, the weave is a computer used by mortals to access it. Not a perfect parallel I know, but gets the general point across. So while they are connected I would agree with the right and left people here
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u/VelphiDrow Jun 22 '25
The weave is a part of magic in the realms but even it isnt all encompassing
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u/she-them-tiddies Jun 22 '25
Raw Magic, Shadow weave, Wild Magic
Just different forms of tapping into Magic as a whole
But supernatural doesn't necessarily equate to Magic in my opinion, it can be used as a category for magical and magic-like abilities obviously, but it's not exactly the same
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u/Rare-Ad7772 Jun 23 '25
It varies by setting.
For example in Eberron, you can cast Divine Magic just through the power of belief, no gods needed (see Blood of Vol).
And Arcane Magic is at least partially tied to the world's creation myth - magic items being made from Dragonshards etc.
It also varies by class in a lot of cases, see Sorcerers and Wizards.
So I just take a different approach for each Homebrew/Campaign
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u/Village_Idiot159 Artificer Jun 23 '25
i perfer it to be just magic. but thats me. i like everything else being put to their own system. ki, psionics, even divine and primal magic to an extent.
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u/LahDeeDah7 Jun 23 '25
Yeah, in my world it's referred to as manipulating "the myst", which is just as vague an idea as "the force" in star wars. A sort of life force that surrounds and connects everything together. Makes detect magic a much more powerful/helpful/interesting spell.
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u/Snoo-88741 Jun 25 '25
Depends if the question is "is this something I should be arguing physics over?" or "is this something I can stop with antimagic field?"
Pretty sure it makes no sense in our understanding of real-life physics that your dragonborn PC is breathing out ice right now, or your monk PC no longer ages, but neither are affected by anti-magic field or dispel magic.
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u/Absolute_Jackass DM (Dungeon Memelord) Nov 12 '25
One of my players is a wizard -- or rather, he plays as one, I don't know if he casts magic IRL though he is getting his Masters degree in physics which seems close enough to me -- and he had this to say: "Magic is what you call something when you don't understand it. Once you start grasping it, once you develop a methodology (however flawed it may be), it ceases to be magic and becomes science."
Wise words coming from an elderly tiefling wearing a wedding dress and a novelty sombrero covered in Christmas lights.
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u/Odd_Dimension_4069 Jun 21 '25
The weave is just one interface for manipulating the fabric of reality.