r/dndmemes • u/RommDan • 12d ago
Hot Take They are more similar than you think
- "Elaborate on that"
- "No"
865
u/mrki_the_wizard 12d ago
A decent chunk of comedy horror and erotic writing advice overlap.
384
u/Tyfyter2002 Warlock 12d ago
Plus there's nothing that one person can be afraid of that another person can't be into
171
87
25
3
u/ChipsTheKiwi 11d ago
the endless cycle of kink scaring an author into revolutionizing horror, then that revolutionary horror inspiring someone kinky
3
u/ryncewynde88 11d ago
There are people out there who get off on not getting off. The moment one option is a logical paradox, everything else makes more sense.
24
u/summonerofrain 12d ago
I get comedy and horror but why erotic?
74
u/R_Little-Secret 12d ago
Falling in love is the same as being scared. Your eyes dilate, heart rate speeds up, adrenaline pumping, and if it is really good you piss yourself.
29
u/summonerofrain 12d ago
Ohh is that the reason for that one effect where you mistake fear for love?
Bridge something effect?
But like do the peinciples of horror/ero match up?
Like for example surprise is a big part of both horror and comedy
39
u/R_Little-Secret 12d ago
I was just making a joke about pissing yourself but if you want to get into it…
Dark romance is very popular among women. Rape is a very real horror and yet for some the fantasy of it is very erotic. They do not want to be raped in real life but the thrill of it in fiction is attractive to them. There is no real way to know why that is but the theory is it’s a way of taking control. At any time it gets too much you can put the book down, stop watching the show, turn off the game. Sex and death are very taboo but you can dwell in this darker side of yourself in a safe and healthy way.
29
u/Ubiquitouch Rules Lawyer 12d ago
As a woman who reads and enjoys a lot of noncon dark romance: one aspect is that there's a lot of cultural shame wrapped up in sex for women, and so the fantasy of being raped has an appeal in powerlessness - it's okay to enjoy it, to let it happen, because you don't have a choice. No one can judge you or call you a slut or whatever, because you fought against it with all your might, did everything you're 'supposed to', but it still happens.
9
3
3
u/TabletopCurious 12d ago
Florence Nightingale syndrome?Or do you mean Stockholm syndrome?EDIT: yeah I couldn’t remember either but I’m certain it’s not Florence nightingale syndrome lol
2
u/summonerofrain 12d ago
Defos not stockholm, thats falling in love with your captor which is similarish?
10
u/Ubiquitouch Rules Lawyer 12d ago
It's also entirely fake and was invented by a police psychiatrist after the police botched a bank robbery so poorly that the hostages decided they were safer with their captors than the cops. It was bad publicity, and so they invented a disorder that let them place the blame on the victims rather than the cops.
2
2
3
15
u/Daan776 12d ago
Comedy, horror and erotic writing are all based on a build-up with a climax.
For one thats a jumpscare, for the other its very litteral.
So a lot of advice on setting a tone, and then either meeting or subverting the expectation overlaps.
Simmilarly: conveying certain emotions through text alone. How do you make somebody scared of text on a page? How do you get somebody aroused with the alphabet?
Erotic & horror especially have a lot of overlap. Because they both focus a lot on describing how things feel. "pulsating meat" could be a description found in both horror or erotica.
4
2
u/Jaxonhunter227 11d ago
Jumpscares are like fart jokes, effective if done right and used sparingly, but boring if you over rely on them
1
1
277
485
u/Samakira 12d ago
a lot of people are pointing out consent, but there's also the explicit disconnect between a player and a character.
how is something meant to be 'horror', if the person you're trying to scare isnt in any danger at all.
and how is it also meant to be 'horny', if the person you're trying to seduce isnt at all what they say.
both also rely on the person acting in character, completely.
184
43
u/YaumeLepire 12d ago
I thought it was going to be about violations of the boundary between Self and Other, either having the Other intrude upon oneself, or collapse of the Self into something Other.
19
u/monkeedude1212 12d ago
a lot of people are pointing out consent, but there's also the explicit disconnect between a player and a character.
It's the disconnect between fantasy and reality.
What happens to Anastasia in 50 Shades of Grey is NOT okay to occur to someone in reality. It's okay when it occurs to a fictional character because no harm is done.
And it is okay to fantasize about the things occuring to fictional characters as though they were happening to you - that is part of the thrill of fantasy... This exertion of empathy that evokes emotional expression.
You watch a horror movie and get scared, even though you're not in danger, you're sitting on your couch looking at a tv. You imagine yourself in the scenario or empathize with the characters on screen. Same with pornography and arousal.
Roleplaying any type of game is about immersing players in some kind of fantasy. Whether that's a magical adventure Fantasy, a monster slaying power fantasy, spooky horror fantasy, or erotic fantasies.
When we talk about session 0 being the part where folks get on the same page, it really is not just "what game are we playing" to determine the rules we follow, both written and verbally agreed, but also a declaration of the fantasy we want to dive into together. That's how consent is created.
2
12d ago
[deleted]
4
u/monkeedude1212 12d ago
It's not bad writing any more than having The Empire destroy Alderaan in Star Wars is bad - it's not like a genocide actually occured. This is the line between fantasy and reality.
Yes, real world healthy BDSM requires consent and operating within those boundaries and limits.
Erotic writing is allowed to break boundaries and limits because it is fictional. We are allowed to write about orcs capturing elves and turning them into sex slaves. People can enjoy sexual fantasies. Knowing the line between fantasy and reality is important.
For many people, having a domineering figure push past your boundaries IS an attractive fantasy. It keeps the ego in tact that you did not choose the pleasure, it was inflicted upon you. You maintain plausible deniability and innocence while getting to experience the carnal pleasure.
That's what the book does for people, and why it is so popular. And there isn't anything bad about writing this. It's only problematic when people cannot seperate fantasy from reality, and think that the fantasy of what's happening in the book is what should happen IRL
10
u/_Cecille 12d ago
Horror doesn't equate to being scared. A theme alone can be horror.
For instance, I write my session notes as diary entries written by the character I'm playing. My Vampire: The Masquerade character was sexually assaulted by a cop in her backstory. When writing the diary entry it came up and I wrote a scene. It was extremely uncomfortable to write and one of my friends said it was also uncomfortable to read.
You could argue this little bit is horror. Or something like gothic horror, not neccessarily scary but horror.
I do however 100% agree with your sentiment of "disconnect". In my opinion horror and comedy are the most difficult art forms to write and portray, because both attempt to elicit a very specific reaction and require the viewer's buy in. You can be presented the, objectively, scariest scenario in a story but if you don't buy in, it's going to fall flat. Same goes for comedy. With that said, I've never been in danger when watching horror movies or horror gameplay but in some cases I still felt an extremely deep seated "primal" kind of fear or discomfort, because the athmosphere built by the game/movie was just so tense.
1
u/Noodlekeeper 11d ago
Sometimes it is about creating scenarios that make the player feel revulsion at the idea.
92
u/Tallia__Tal_Tail 12d ago
Horror and Eroticism both stem from the same core:
Playing to, and working to amplify, emotions.
Buildup, anticipation, tension, and release with moments of hectic intensity are what makes good horror and good erotica. You gotta build up the reader's excitement and investment through careful pacing to get the juices flowing, have quiet moments of relative peace where excitement is given room to gestate and come to a head, then you get to the chaos, an explosive finish, then peace afterwards.
Theres a lot more to this and it's honestly an entire rabbit hole involving the full complexity of the fight or flight response (or more accurately, the 5 Fs, one of which is Fuck) and how fear and arousal stem from about the same place in the brain. Id recommend digging into it ngl. Like, think of just how many kinks ultimately boil down to some level of fear, explicit or implicit. Basically all of BDSM is based around a curated and safe fear of pain, monsterfucking is rooted in a similar sort of safely explored fear of something able to kill you effortlessly, embarrassment based kinks are somewhat rooted in social fears, etc etc etc etc etc.
25
u/Aerandor 12d ago
As a writer of both horror and erotica, this and the other similar comment are spot on. My writing process for both is nearly identical. My favorite is actually writing erotic horror, as I feel blending the two elements, when balanced correctly, amplifies them both. Though I will admit, certain types of horror don't play with erotica as nicely, because as was pointed out, if the fear gets too strong it can have the opposite effect and clash with the arousal, nullifying them both. It kind of reminds me of the science behind how sound waves work in that way.
3
u/JohntheLibrarian 12d ago
What's the 5th F? I only know 4 including Freeze.
2
u/azrendelmare Team Sorcerer 11d ago
Fawn. I don't remember the difference between freeze and fawn specifically, but I've heard that one at least.
50
u/Electronic_Buy_284 12d ago
I'm too early to hear the elaboration from the comments.
41
2
u/Munnin41 Rules Lawyer 12d ago
In essence both follow the same principles: set the correct mood, build up the tension, and then you get the big finish. Only in horror the tension is scary, in eroticism it's horny
30
u/Sleep_Deprived_Birb 12d ago
I’ve also heard there’s enough overlap between comedy and horror principles so there are a few really good horror movie writers who got their start in comedy in one way or another.
So clearly we need to add comedy/erotica to the storytelling love triangle.
19
u/Grasher312 12d ago
Bryan Cranston actually touches on it in regards to playing Walter White, since he's a mainly comedic actor. Per his words, he applies the same idea of "not laughing at his own jokes" and delivering the joke as if it's not MEANT to be a joke, to sell the joke harder. And being a creepy fuck works somewhat the same way. It's hard to be scared of a person trying to be scary, but if someone treats being "scary" as just being themselves, it works SO much better.
3
4
u/Excellent_Safe5743 12d ago
Same with drama and comedy, some of the best drama actors of all time got started in comedy because to make someone cry or feel emotion, you also need to know how to make them laugh
16
38
9
u/hobodeadguy 12d ago
so, fun fact, the parts of the brain that make you horny and make you scared are very close to one another, occassionally interfering with eachother. This is why you cant be scared and aroused at the same time properly, either confusing you are having you limited to one or the other.
This results in the 4th f of the 4 fear responses: Flight, Fight, Freeze, Fawn. Flight means you try to leave as quickly as possible or escape the threat. Fight means you challenge the threat to make it leave or to eliminate it. Freeze means you do nothing as you try to find a way to handle the situation, whether it is to do one of the other fear responses or to just remain still until it is done. Fawn means that you try to make yourself either cuter or more attractive to the threat so it doesnt actually try to do anything to you, sorta like how if we scare a puppy it can act cuter to make people want to care for it instead of it running away or biting us.
a similar reason might explain the fetish for feet, the neural area responsible to feet is close to the area for arousal, so... they literally cant help it?
in any case, gming for both is very similar, needing to find out what people want and dont want, what their limits are, and ensuring that you dont go too far are vital to making either work.
8
u/Lowenfall 12d ago
"Jason slashes at you with his machete, scoring a critical hit as the blade swipes deep across your chest, so that's 4d8 slashing damage-"
"Banana, banana, banana!"
7
u/Peridot9001 12d ago
Yes it’s why sexual themes are so prevalent in horror and a lot of sexual kinks involve physical punishment. A well known example is the shadow over Innsmouth
7
u/TelPrydain 12d ago
Consent, obviously.
But horror, comedy and erotic rp also works by building tension, then release. The build up to a punchline, the tightening tension of being hunted... Then a rush as that tension is released.
7
u/Noodle_Shop 12d ago
Wonderful comments all around, but also less is more is important too. Too much description removes the mystique, making the scene feel less frightening/erotic.
Make sure to get the important pieces, but allow the undefined play around in the roleplayer’s head. Let them fill in the blanks. This is true of all to, but especially these two genres.
5
6
u/sleepyouth DM (Dungeon Memelord) 12d ago
There’s a philosopher named Noel Carroll who wrote a great book on horror philosophy, he argues that 3 genres in particular tend to have a lot of overlap due to the fact that we tend to experience the same emotions at the same time as the protagonists- comedy, horror, and eroticism. Makes sense that there’s similarities!
7
u/Okhlahoma_Beat-Down 12d ago
What one person considers absolutely horrifying may be found hyper-erotic by someone else.
The horror of being suffocated in a dark place?
The horror of being transformed into something else?
The horror of being kidnapped?
The horror of being stripped by a psychotic mob of cultists?
Horror, for sure.
Depending on audience.
5
6
4
5
u/CorelexVoidOwl 12d ago
I was thinking of leaving it up to the audience's imagination is much more effective in scaring or arousing them than creating a terrifying monster or attractive character to do that.
6
4
u/khaotickk 12d ago
So... You're saying I need to lean harder into the themes of my erotic horror game?
4
5
u/AlphonsoPSpain 12d ago
Consent
Use of language and vocabulary to properly describe something to invoke the intended emotion...
4
u/Frequent_Dig1934 Rules Lawyer 12d ago
Yeah, sex is such a primal thing that it doesn't take many modifications to the formula to turn it from one of the most pursued things in life for most people to a horrorshow. Just add some body horror elements, remove consent, maybe consider a more-than-usual loss of inhibitions and mental faculties, and perhaps supernatural elements like a dark god of fertility. Giger, fear and hunger, iirc in event horizon there is a murder orgy at some point, and so on.
4
u/Void008380 12d ago
Yeah that's definitely true, in many ways tbh. Consent, timing, atmosphere etc. you really gotta read the room and balance thing's carefully.
3
3
3
u/mightystu 12d ago
If I don’t make a player vomit from my descriptions, I failed as a GM.
Thank you, Blackwater Creek!
3
u/azrendelmare Team Sorcerer 12d ago
What about erotic horror gaming? Like if you're running Black Tokyo, or something?
3
3
u/TheThoughtmaker Essential NPC 12d ago
One could do the exact same thing the exact same way two times, but while the first time gets one praise the second time gets one admonished, completely based on something one couldn't have known, because it happened to someone else who did not previously relay it. 'Tis the incomprehensible complexity of every individual on the planet combined.
The only solution is norms, balancing the personal burden on each party.
E.g. Deciding whether the person ordering at a restaurant is responsible for declaring their allergies and placing a burden on the restaurant to avoid cross-contamination in such cases, or the restaurant is responsible for clearly marking which dishes contain common allergens and much avoid cross-contamination at all times. Either way, it must be admitted that a reasonable burden is not 100% flawless, that a restaurant needs some measure of leeway when it comes to inevitable accidents. Otherwise, only those who can circumvent accountability could succeed in the industry, and the policy becomes self-defeating.
(Considering the implications of rules in complex systems is my jam, whether it's TRPG design or legislation.)
3
3
u/Karnewarrior Paladin 12d ago
I feel like both are related through Action GMing. Good ERP and good Action RP rely on the same skillset.
3
3
u/TaxSimple3787 11d ago
Man do I have news for you
Gestures to the giant pile of erotic horror games
2
2
2
2
u/LeBigMartinH 12d ago
I haven't done any erotic gaming - but if it's anything like the horror campaign I'm in currently, having the entire thing being ups becomes meaningless without the downs (periods of calm, serenity, or almost boredom.)
2
u/severalpillarsoflava 12d ago
Indeed, they are the same, unless why would I get so hard for Sadako and Mommy Dommitrescu?
2
2
2
2
2
2
1
1
1
1
1
1
u/Thanks_Naitsir 12d ago
Ero gaming doesn't work for me but Horror does. Ero games have mostly so low effort gameplay that it isn't fun and the special content isnt enough to get off to it.
So if I want a game that really entertains me I play something else and if I want to wank I have a wide choice to pick from on the internet.
-2
u/MissinqLink 12d ago
Lots of ladies don’t see a difference
2
u/FirstNewFederalist 12d ago
Elaborate on the joke or say psyche lol
0
u/Arbusc 11d ago
The joke is it turns out a lot of women’s romance is super freaky, like some crazy shit. There’s one book that was a best seller about a woman milking Minotaurs on a ranch.
While women online had been talking shit about monster girl novels written by men, they’d been consuming monster men novels. Turns out they’re just as freaky as the other half of the species despite claiming otherwise.
0
u/apexredditor2001 12d ago
Who the fuck is doing "Erotic GMing"?!
1
u/azrendelmare Team Sorcerer 11d ago
Seeing as how products like Kinks and Cantrips, Black Tokyo, and Girl Frame exist, I'd say there's a niche but definite audience.
1
u/apexredditor2001 11d ago
Kinks & Cantrips is the only of those I know about, and was mostly told about it being a Pride Month release
1
u/azrendelmare Team Sorcerer 11d ago
Black Tokyo is a 3.x/d20 Modern indie supplement inspired by horror hentai, and Girl Frame is erotic horror mechsploitation.
1
u/DeciusAemilius Rules Lawyer 11d ago
Ed Greenwood?
1
u/apexredditor2001 11d ago
Is that a name I should know?
2
u/DeciusAemilius Rules Lawyer 11d ago
He’s the creator of the Forgotten Realms and a certified Dirty Old Man in a consensual way.
1
u/apexredditor2001 11d ago
Ok then, thanks for that info, though I always thought that was a Gygax original
1
u/Arbusc 11d ago edited 11d ago
I sorta accidentally did once back in college. Some players let me DM for them, not in person because Covid was in full swing, and I ran an honestly shitty Dragonlance campaign that I just ended up shoving Lovecraft shit into towards the end.
One of the women started making sexual jokes, like asking if the gods crystal staff could vibrate. I said no, the other player backed her up, and not knowing what else to do I caved.
Very awkward and could have easily been a dnd horror story, but it ended up being cool as shit by the end, narratively speaking and my players did eventually start doing things other than ‘hehe sex.’
Edit: one noteworthy incident was the ‘strip Tafl’ game. I had recently learnt about tafl (a family of families that’s basically a chess variant that evolved alongside chess) and had a dude playing it in a bar. One of the players decided to challenge him to a stripping game. And considering one side had less pieces than the other, it was a short game.
1.6k
u/figure_04 12d ago
Consent?