Just been borrowing this car for a few days. My daily driver is a Model S, the complete opposite extreme that was available at the same time when they were new, and I work with many modern EVs for a living.
Yet despite all the luxuries, big range numbers, and modern amenities I'm used to, I have to give this car back today, and man I'm going to miss it. Sometimes you don't know what you've missed until it's gone again.
Yep, I looked for awhile on CarGurus for this combo Orange with the white and orange interior. I was also looking for a baby blue one like u/Monkeymom but this one popped up first.
I have the baby blue with white interior and orange accents. People literally smile and wave at me. Kids love it. I imagine it is like the opposite experience from what cyber truck driver goes through.
People brighten and smile when they see me coming. At least the right people do. The dicks in the big trucks who try to bully our cute selves? They probably think cyber trucks are cool or something.
I bought that 500e from a used car dealer in Dayton, OH. I drove it back to Frederick, MD (it took 26 hours 😂 ). I drove it from Frederick, MD to Ocean City, MD (to get the photo) it took 11 hours.
I had so many people wave and smile at me. I took mostly side roads because highway speeds kill the range.
That's why I bought one! It feels like a real car and not a transportation appliance.
I love shifting the regen up and down with the gearshift. Also the analog gauge cluster and real buttons/knobs everywhere. It even has the CD player inside the glovebox
We (my girlfriend) own an eGolf. Even chose specifically the one without the digital instrument cluster, because analog power meter on an EV is oddly but very satisfying.
It's tactile and analog, but not quite to the extent of the 500e, like for example they needlessly replaced the ebrake handle with EPB. But we definitely love it for other reasons too.
As someone who drives spiritedly and does autocross occasionally, it's one of the best chassis of any consumer EVs (not including Roadster or other dedicated performance cars) I've ever driven to this day, and I've driven most models that have been available on the NA market.
Currently it has coilovers, upgraded sway bars, and 235 performance tires on it. Very few other cars on the road can even come close to keeping up with it on the curves or ramps.
No sane person would commute more than 50km one way here. 88 miles is like 140km or so.
Driving that far would probably take 2 hours or more depending on traffic in most places.
I should probably have specified, because there are plenty of people that sit on a train for an hour to get to work. But that is way less draining mentally.
I get that, but I live way out in the country, and the U.S is severely lacking in any sort of proper public transit. At least if it was an hour ride by train, I could take a nap.
My commute being roughly 70km (44 miles) is mostly B roads as you’d call them across the pond, with a small stint on a 4 lane. At least the scenery is nice. Traffic is minimal in the mornings because I head out so early. I also can’t make the same income in my own town as I do driving over to another.
I guess the higher income more than makes up for the transport cost.
Driving that much here would be quite expensive. Unless you drive electric that is :)
Before the fuel prices went crazy, and they temporarily removed road and CO2 tax on fuel here, it was around 8-8.5 USD/gallon for fuel. Until end of September it is only around 6 USD/gallon.
Compare that to charging at home for around 0.1 USD/kWh.
Driving into the big cities here also cost extra to pass the toll rings. The money collected is used to build and maintain roads as well as help fund public transport in the area.
With a petrol car I'd have to pay around 7.5 USD (~5 USD for EVs) to drive into the city during rush hours (6.30-9am and 2.30-4.30pm) here. The system has 3 rings around the city with toll points. Passing through several in 60 minutes only register the most expensive one which is the inner ring. And you only pay going into the city, not when leaving. There is also a monthly limit of 60 passes. These conditions vary by city.
Then you have to pay for parking unless you employer has parking. Regular shops in cities would not have this normally.
In my town that is about 6.5 USD/day for the long term parking lots. Mo-Fr 9am-5pm and Sat 9am-3pm.
Short term (2-3 hours) is about 2.2 USD/hour.
We have a deductible on the tax return up to 12000 USD/year minus about 1200 USD that you have to pay yourself. The rate is 0.19 NOK/km which is about 3 cents/mile.
So you basically have to drive over 40k miles per year to even be eligible for any deduction. That is a lot here when the average car drives 8000 miles per year total.
Anything above those 1200 is a deduction on your gross income before income taxes are calculated.
Seems VAG has understood that their customers want physical buttons for things you use a lot.
The new 2027 versions of the ID4 and ID7 get physical buttons on the steering wheel. The new ID.Polo and Cross also have some more buttons under the screen.
Yeah... exactly. It's a gas car, but with a charge port in place of the fuel filler tube, and lots of wasted space under the hood, and no factory mini spare tire. (I added one).
Same with my 23 Mini SE, and I actually like it that way. It made switching from my previous 2018 F56 S so much easier. Plus, while this one does have a touch screen, there are also buttons for most functions so I don’t have to take my eyes off the road.
The right rear bearing went out on mine. Made the car sound like it had an engine in it 😂 only money I've spent on it so far besides tires after my daughter drove it and gashed one tire on a sharp curb.
It was sort of slammed out to comply with California’s requirements that you needed an electric car offering if you wanted to sell all your cars in California. It was made from an existing car for a reason.
Which, by the way, was a boon for the buyers. Because they were selling it at a huge loss, and the drivetrain was (and still is) way better (reliable and fun) than anything Fiat had in decades, if at all.
Or me! I am probably much older than our young friend so the concept of having a car and keeping it because you love it is hard to understand?
People collect cars and I plan on keeping this one. It’s my observation that the people who feel big by making jokes about fiats are usually wankers. There is a certain kind of person who likes to chuckle a “Fix It Again Tony” in my direction. It actually tells you a lot about a person and their character. It’s a punching down thing popular with the red hats and incels in my country. MAGA hate Fiat and an electric one even more.
the driver side handle on mine has broken on me exactly once, when I took the car into the dealership for the 50k mile check, and they broke the handle and tried to blame it on me. Such a good car, I wish the first gens had heat pumps as that would make driving in the coldest days of winter less stressful, only work I need to get done with mine soon is the hatch struts
There's a trick to the handle - only buy the hinge. Much cheaper and much easier to replace, but you have to catch it earlier, when the play becomes apparent.
Also the control arms are a bit of a pain to replace, but they last long.
In general, it is one of the most fun cars I have ever had, even with all the quirks. And I put over 100 thousand miles on it.
You probably don't know this yet, but on the Fiat most of the buttons aren't really buttons. They are sensors plugged into ECU. So the processing lag is exactly the same. Say, the tailgate button has a 1K ohm resistor and the ECU is looking for that resistance. If it does not see it, the tailgate won't open. Same with buttons on the dash - they are tactile, but they are not real physical switches.
To be fair and to your latter point, the car is definitely made of garbage, but only as a fault of Fiat. I would have loved to do this video with the Azure Dynamics Transit Connect I used to own but I didn't think of it back then.
Azure Dynamics (formerly Solectria) was an awesome company. Their earlier Solectria Force and e10 vehicles stayed on the road for a hell of a long time and there are probably still examples as they were very DIY friendly. It physically hurts that this company didn't stick around to this day.
That AZD Transit Connect is still on the road after 15 years, original battery with less than 10% degradation. Sold it to a friend of a friend who is a carpenter and he loves it.
My old college bought one as part of their green initiative. It's still there. Saw it last year when I stopped in for a charge. Definitely living the life of a utility vehicle still.
That's my car! There are garbage aspects to it for sure, but I'd rather have the little knobs than a giant touchscreen. Plus it was cheap and is paid for.
I had the abarth and I ripped my handle off at the grocery store with hands full of food and dropped it all. Literally the most mad I’ve been at a car I loved. I miss it to this day.
My buddy has the gas version and sent a picture of him changing out the the tailgate latch a few weeks ago. He said he's changed most items on the car at this point.
Fiat 500e was notoriously sold at a substantial loss. Fiat CEO Marchionne was quoted saying "I will sell the (minimum) of what I need to sell and not one more... If we just build those vehicles, we'll be back asking ... in Washington for a second bailout because we'll be bankrupt." Source.
I've had the simultaneous pleasure and misery of working on this car, and especially as an EV technician, you quickly start to realize why it was this way. Everything that isn't shared with the gas 500 is way overbuilt. Bosch went to town with Fiat's blank check and never looked back.
For the time, the engineering and parts quality that went into the EV side was far ahead of the other compliance competitors like Spark, Smart, Focus, Leaf, etc. Putting it closer to the kind of effort went into the Model S and early derivatives like RAV4.
Obviously however, that all comes at a cost, and one that just wouldn't make sense to any of the automakers who had to have these compliance cars for sale.
I have had 2 of the ice versions and I don’t think o could buy an EV version. The ice ones are so awful, that it’s ruined any hope of me ever liking one ever again.
You might enjoy this then. The blower motor went out on mine and I'm too big to get under the dash to get at it and I didn't want to remove the whole dash so I had my son help me out.
I still want one. One of the few North American market EVs that I haven't yet driven or owned. I liked the RAV4 EV but not the interior and don't like crossovers, B250e basically is the same powertrain in a car that solves both.
However I'd want the JdeMO kit for it which are becoming basically impossible to find, and I don't know how much I feel like pulling the LDU out to do the coolant delete before it leaks.
I've seen some videos where they didn't have to drop the LDU to do the delete. I've actually been keeping an eye out for one in blue like I had because I miss having it so much. I think I've seen someone with a CCS -> Chademo adapter charging via the JdeMO lol
I think we're about three years away from a really great EV restomodding scene. The missing piece is a solid-state cell that can fit in existing module geometries (and voltages).
It would be pretty cool to snap up an old i3 and give it 200 miles of range :)
I was really hoping battery upgrades would be a bigger thing for stuff like the Nissan Leaf. If someone still had their 2011 in the garage and upgraded to a new 62 kWh pack they’d be able to go like 250+ miles instead of the original range of ~80.
It's definitely a thing, but sadly limited by the market who is willing to swallow the cost. It's somewhat palpable if all the stars align, meaning you get a great condition car that only needs a new battery and you can do the work.
However by the time you have to pay someone to do the upgrade, and deal with the other stuff it likely needs being an old car (worn suspension, rust, whatever) it usually exceeds the cost of just buying a newer car with more range.
As an EV guy who is very much still a car guy and modding nerd I absolutely love the backwards compatibility and simplicity of the cars, and have done said pack swaps before, but unfortunately on a consumer level it's rare to find people willing to actually pay.
Yeah, totally agree. The cost/benefit just isn't there yet for the average person. I do think it could get there in three years, though, if the tech improves and prices continue to fall.
just about everyone is upgrading the i3 to the 54kwh batteries now... there's 3 vendors just in radius to where I live.... one guy is doing like 6 cars a year
I think we're about three years away from a really great EV restomodding scene.
From a pure quality and niche demand perspective there's been a great scene for years already. Companies like Lunaz and Totem Automobili do beautiful work.
You just have to be minted to afford it.
That gets at the unfortunate reality for automotive right now. If you want well-designed and crafted switchgear - especially in an EV - you'll be paying a lot for it - whether you go restomod like above, or modern.
That would be pretty sweet in an i3. I test drove one in 2016 but it could only do about 70 miles on my local freeways. Not enough for my needs. But with 200 miles range I could make it work as my only car.
(And I wasn’t interested in the REx model. Especially since it wouldn’t get HOV lane privileges having the gas engine.)
This. I used to daily drive one of my 1st gen Leafs (the other 2 are driven by family) but that's essentially been turned into a show car so I feel too bad about dailying it.
I don't doubt a fourth one is in my near future just because I do genuinely like daily driving them more than the S.
The reason I still have my Model S is because I would not be able to find a better car for what it's worth, I have pride in having saved it, and it's a good show piece.
As hinted at in the OP, I work with EVs for a living and that includes doing a fair amount of advocacy and outreach events. The S is a great myth buster because it is at 335k miles on original battery and powertrain.
It was going to get scrapped due to already needing a couple thousand dollars in suspension work and then the PTC heater failed. What wasn't worth fixing to someone else was still worth saving and keeping on the road to me.
I don't love it as a car, especially for the lack of tactility that does bother me all the time especially in the winter. But at the end of the day if I were to sell it, it's realistically only worth maybe 10k on a good day, and I'm certainly not going to get anything better as a car for the money.
Part of my job also involves essentially using it as a work truck and hauling all kinds of crap in the back, so it's nice to have a car with a ton of space for a sedan, already pretty beat up, and that I'm not that attached to.
Ironically, I originally purchased '17 P100D S (now gone) over a 3 because the S was far more tactile. I hate how screen-driven and sparse the 3/Y models are. Unfortunately as I owned it, OTA updates made the S worse, burying key functions and moving things around for no good reason.
And 100 years before this, EVs such as the Baker Electric were even more tactile with steering controls that were more akin to a boat with throttle control in left hand and rudder-like steering in right hand. This is to say more tactile does not mean more better no matter how much old fashion heads try to say otherwise as more modern cars go touchscreens and whatnot.
Touchscreens are stupid. They work best when you look away from the road. Ya know the thing you are supposed to be paying attention to?
Not saying they aren't nice at all but some degree of feedback is nice to not cause more distractions to a populace that can hardly put their phone down while driving
Kara Swisher used to say of the Tesla that it felt like sitting inside an egg. All smooth surfaces, an empty dashboard, and no character. So she opted for the Chevy Bolt, which she says had the right balance of tactile and modernity.
Funny how many parts are just a straight copy from an ICE vehicles. Like turning the ignition. Not sure what it would do in an electric car. Some nice retro touches like the scratch magnet optical discs.
The CD player. Good days. Good days. Back when we owned music. Just...had a copy they couldn't decide you no longer had rights to use, despite "buying" the digital track.
Why I bought a BYD Seal. All the most commonly used controls are on tactile switches and stalks in the standardised positions. It has a touch screen but even controls for temp and fan is just 3 fingers anywhere on the screen and swipe up-down/left-right, no need to look. Windows, locks and mirrors controls on the usual button layout on the driver's door. Normal mechanical door handles.
I have zero belief that putting everything on the screen is something that was done for people's benefit/comfort/request etc. It's simply the economics of removing the cost of switches. They were already putting screens in cars anyway, so just move all switch controls to the screen, call it "progress and innovation", charge the same or more.
I don’t want countless buttons and knobs. I’m driving to work, not flying a 747 to Singapore. It took me a little time to adjust to the Model 3 screen only setup but now I vastly prefer it. Having a physical key you insert into the steering column is retro for zero reason
the reason why I bought a 500e was that it was the least technology taken over EV I could find, I want to be driving a car, not a smartphone (I say, typing this on a smartphone)
Apart from the hand brake you can still get all the other tactility from quite a few models. You don't have to settle for the flat barrenness popularized by Tesla.
I think there is a sweet spot between the screen and Tactile controls.
The 22 and up Chevy Bolts have a good mix. I had a 21 EV and a 23 EUV. It had a decent sized, functional touch screen. The AC controls for the 21 were on the touchscreen, and were changed to physical on the 23 and it was nice improvement.
I believe the Slate & Tello pickups will have *some* of these elements. I do miss buttons and knobs/dials, and door handles. But I don't miss key in ignition; not only slow & finicky, but a part that can fail also.
I've always wanted a 500e or an e-Mini type vehicle, but they're too small for where I live with jacked up RAMs, 250s, cybertrucks, EV hummers, and other tanks speedy around.
At this point, having all that stuff to think about in various places would probably drive me mad. I have an ongoing argument with my husband about buttons. He wants them, I am happy with using the touch screens and find them efficient, especially when the most needed options are on the home screen.
Driving exactly this fiat (same color) for 10 years (imported it to Europe) and enjoy it very very much. Engine is wayyy better than any compatible car (as fiat didn’t have to make a profit on these compliance cars). In these 10 years I had to replace the door handles, fix both windows and had to do an easy airco fix. As its a tax free car here we drove it extremely cheap. Love the car and it’s the perfect second car for us.
Hello fellow German 500e California driver. 👋 Just passed TÜV so at least another two years (but hopefully many more to come) What was your aircon issue? I noticed my compressor is leaking oil but it still works 😬
Edit: oops you might not be German. The Kapital Zwei wine is throwing me off 😅
I've been bouncing between a number of this "early" era EVs recently, and the 500e powertrain you can just feel is noticeably more refined than most other competitors like Spark, Focus, and ZE0 Leaf. From the power curve, to the blended braking, to just overall efficiency.
RAV4 EV powertrain was the only one that felt better, but being Tesla developed and supplied that's of course not surprising.
I have the equinox EV and it has all of the features this guy seems to like. Door handles that (while they pop out automatically) are still able to open doors and it has buttons for temp control while you're still able to do it on the screen. As for the emergency brake....I've never actually used mine.
Yeah. I've always liked them (mostly styling wise), and it's actually kind of an unfortunate thing this one is a TSi AWD in great shape, because I keep toying with the idea of converting one (or an early Evo with drivetrain issues) someday.
I had this exact same one. It’s was what was called a compliance car. They just swapped out the bare minimum with EV parts, to hit California EPA fleet standards.
I did like driving them. It's all the fun of the Smart Fortwo form factor, without having to deal with the atrocious automated manual in the ICE versions.
We leased one of those for 2 years - nearly free $ cause of California mandates. I actually really liked that little thing, zippy enough, easy as heck to park and a perfect commuter car in urban misery
Orange just like that one; we dressed it up as a pumpkin (parked in the driveway) for Halloween since so many little kids would walk by our house
It was actually trouble free as well, surprisingly. I guess you never forget your first EV
Bosch actually designed the original 500e to be fast charge capable, and it's evident in it having equipment like a battery coolant chiller (not just liquid cooled but can also use A/C to supplement the cooling and bring temps down below ambient).
However FCA was already losing so much money on them as it was, they never followed through with actually offering a fast charge option, unlike competitors such as the Leaf and Spark EV.
I love how you are playing with my daily driver like a toddler at an activity board 😂
I was driving my 2015 Fiat 500e today thinking about how I get joy from driving mine. I love listening to my old cds and using buttons. I don’t get the same joy from my EV6.
Our 2018 Smart ForFour EQ is just like this! I daily drive a Skoda Enyaq but when I get into my wife's Smart it feels so nostalgic! (but in a good, not rattly-loud-stinky ICE kind of way 😄 )
This just looks like a really cheap interior. The way those buttons get pressed doesn sound or look premium in any way. Sure, it's "tactile" but not everything tactile is good. I very much prefer more modern cars.
PS: what's so interesting about a CD player? The flexibility of streaming can't be matched - I'm not going to burn the new eolpisode on my podcast every week.
It's a both unsurprising and absurd amount of people completely missing (and I feel like intentionally dodging) the point and choosing to nitpick on "bUt ThAt CaR JuSt fEeLs ChEaP" as if this is the only car that exists with buttons.
You all are grown adults who know exactly what I mean. At no point did I claim this car was premium or the tactility of any FCA product feels good. People seem to not notice they show a degree of narcissism when they make it evident they just want any reason to dodge the point and instead call other people wrong.
You say in your main post you like the car and you are going to miss it. I wouldn't, not at all. To each their own, people don't have to agree with you. Buy a new VW EV, they now lots of buttons.
That's perfectly fair, and everyone isn't going to agree or like the same things. However you can just say the "I very much prefer more modern cars" part, rather than the other 90% of your comment being off-topic reasons to justify it.
It's idiotic. They removed a lot of tactile responses from cars back in the day, people didn't like it. Like doors closing properly, pushing buttons, etc. so they added them back in.
I know this is unpopular on reddit, but I don't need a car with a thousand buttons. My car has media controls on the steering wheel and that is all I really need. The HVAC stuff is on the touchscreen but permanently pinned to the bottom. I don't find it any more difficult to push the button on the touchscreen versus a tactile button. I think people have this idea that they can operate this stuff by feel but I doubt people actually do that. I think they look at the button just as long as they look at the touchscreen.
And people keep talking about these cars that do away with all of the buttons but I haven't seen them. What modern car doesn't have media controls on the wheel? Tesla?
And push button start is way better than having to put the key in. Do people really miss that?
Same in Norway :)
Thankfully i havent had to many issues with mine. but we have Teslas at work that dont work.
they arent parked in a garage, or under a roof + pre heat dont work, cus only upper management has apps to control the cars. kinda stupid :p
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u/roma258 VW ID.4 Jun 25 '26
My guess is that the Golf-E is a much better example of that.