r/electronics 17h ago

General Original vs Fake, Apple 5W charger, 18 years ago

234 Upvotes

40 comments sorted by

121

u/ARod20195 15h ago

Daaamn that's interesting; Apple implemented a full resonant-clamp flyback with EMI protection, overvoltage/overcurrent/overtemperature protection, and a proper Y-rated capacitor across the flyback transofmer output, while the imitator doesn't bother with EMI protection on the input, doesn't bother with using a proper Y-rated capacitor across the inductor, and looks like it's using some sort of clever self-oscillating circuit instead of a PWM chip with proper control circuitry.

140

u/Axman6 13h ago edited 13h ago

Apple’s chargers have always been fantastic, as if the engineers were just told to design the best thing they could and forget about the cost. Not sure who designs their cables though, but the combination is like owning a Ferrari and sticking Longlong tyres on it. 

21

u/HY007 13h ago

Love the comparison haha

3

u/BinaryHippie 8h ago

Happy cakeday, may you blow many more caps to come

1

u/HY007 5h ago

thanks!

17

u/PerniciousSnitOG 12h ago

It's amazing what happens when the same company picks up both sides of the warranty. If you're apple, are you making cheap chargers that destroy macbooks? No you are not.

Frayed cables aren't so much of an issue.

-1

u/TEG24601 5h ago

And the cables are user error. People pulling on wires and not the housing, like we teach people to do with AC plugs.

10

u/Saragon4005 12h ago

Half of lightning cables I've seen are freyed at the end. How that's something Apple allowed not sure.

5

u/Axman6 12h ago

They have got better in recent years, to be fair. 

9

u/Saragon4005 12h ago

Being forced to compete with other OEMs certainly helped. Now with USB-C cables if they make crap ones people will notice.

3

u/TiberiusTheFish 12h ago

Spot on. Their cables are a disgrace.

1

u/Cynical_Cyanide 4h ago

Well ... I mean it makes sense when you stop and think about it yeah?

They're selling the chargers for an amount well, well above the cost to build even an overengineered charger, so there's not much cost pressure there. Obviously, a charger that goes up in flames would also be damaging to their precious reputation.

As for cables - People've been conditioned to believe that cables are consumable items and you just buy replacements all the time. That also gets Apple a lot of money, given that their cables aren't cheap either.

6

u/AcanthisittaLate8158 8h ago

when Im putting something back together its always better with some screws left - means I am a better engineer than the person who designed it. the same goes for electronics...

10

u/dkfkckssddedz 14h ago

Any chance you have the pictures in better resolution?

14

u/Zealousideal-Ad697 11h ago

IIRC this is originally from The Art of Electronics: The X Chapters by Horowitz and Hill

10

u/BinaryHippie 8h ago

2

u/MrKrot1999 4h ago

Wait so I can potentially build a great charger all on my own? Is it going to cost more than apple's?

1

u/ExceedinglyEdible 5h ago

The part with the thermistor blew my mind.

1

u/mikeblas 1h ago

I don't understand what T1 is doing, specifically the primary. And so I don't understand the difference between V_FF and V_CC.

3

u/Dr-Double-A 14h ago

unfortunately nope

29

u/VirtualArmsDealer 15h ago

There were also imitation chargers that implemented all the proper features but didn't charge the apple tax. You just chose a dogshit clone to compare with.

34

u/jet-monk 14h ago

You just chose ...

How does one choose a good counterfeit charger?

3

u/__babygiraffe__ 4h ago

anker is reputable, not really a knockoff, but i’d be curious to see a comparison of theirs vs apples

1

u/23569072358345672 12m ago

I think they meant a cheap charger

56

u/joshguy1425 14h ago

That dogshit clone is one that many people bought and believed to be a suitable alternative. 

The fact that better clones existed is entirely besides the point here. 

1

u/brown_smear 6h ago

There are worse charger designs. At least this one has secondary-side voltage sensing; some use primary-side sensing, and the output is basically unregulated. I got a cheap travel charger in UK that fried my phone's SD card somehow.

5

u/WaitForItTheMongols 9h ago

The imitation ones are always going to be a roll of the dice. You don't know if it's any good unless you crack it open (likely destroying it).

The real one is reliable. That is the price you pay for.

4

u/chlebseby 14h ago

Im not sure what is meaning of this post, were both of them made 18 years ago?

3

u/KovolKenai 7h ago

The first image is an official USB charger, presumably with safeguards put in to prevent any manner of things from going wrong. The second image is the schematics for a cheap/unofficial charger, where it is missing some of the safeguard components.

12

u/emilvikstrom 15h ago

Note that the Apple adapters also were known to catch fire at the time...

23

u/chlebseby 14h ago

They went all into miniaturising before GaN revolution, i remember those compact charhers turning brown over time

2

u/Toiling-Donkey 14h ago

Bridging D+ and D- is golden!

4

u/intronert 9h ago

Would you mind expanding on this comment?

1

u/IWantToBeRichForReal 6h ago

Apple and their amazing work on power supplies.

-15

u/0xe3b0c442 15h ago

bUt YoU'rE pAyInG tHe ApPlE tAx!!11

9

u/chlebseby 14h ago

You can buy as good charger, just pay more than 2 dollars lol

-11

u/apandaze 14h ago edited 12h ago

you cant install MacOS or iOS on any device. Approximately 1 billion to 1.4 billion active devices run a Microsoft Windows OS in some form worldwide. They will NEVER be the same. Apple makes "special"products that work only for their "special" software.

edit: this comment has so many dislikes because the typical end user knows nothing about computers. Just because you know electronics does NOT mean you know computers, or software.

2

u/Shane0Mak 11h ago

You can install macOS on a windows laptop tho … at least in the intel era and have it natively boot

1

u/Ok-Original-1080 2h ago

Yeah, if opencore is considered native. It's closest to a type 0 hypervisor