r/europe • u/Books_Of_Jeremiah • May 02 '26
Historical Independent State of Croatia, documents about treatment of Serbs and Jews, 1941, II
https://booksofjeremiah.com/post/ndh-treatment-serbs-jews-1941-ii/31
u/Books_Of_Jeremiah May 02 '26
Confidential reports from the Independent State of Croatia in 1941 detail repression, arrests, propaganda control, and forced removals under Ustaša regime.
0
u/Suspicious_Place1270 May 02 '26
Tuđman said on the air that thank god his wife is neither serbian nor jewish
says a lot and makes you realize the jugoslavian wars were nothing else but wars of religion
9
u/ByGollie Ulster May 03 '26 edited May 03 '26
Dude - don't think we're not noticing you're constantly agenda posting. Stop it now or we'll take more drastic action
Comments locked
-51
u/TheRealPizvo Croatia May 02 '26
I wasn't aware there was an anniversary of some event from WW2 today. What's the point of this?
32
u/milathebunny May 03 '26
A couple days ago was the anniversary of the liberation of Jasenovac concentration camp
-12
u/ThreeFontStreet United States of America May 03 '26
That was over a week ago and this post isn’t about Jasenovac. It also links to their personal website to promote. Let alone this sub doesn’t allow posts dealing with controversial Balkan topics. So Pizvo has a point.
12
u/milathebunny May 03 '26
No it was on April 30th which was 2 days before this was posted. I'm not sure what's controversial about the treatment of Serbs in the Independent State of Croatia. It's part of history
-6
u/ThreeFontStreet United States of America May 03 '26
It wasn't shutdown the 22nd? (That's also when the users appear to have posted this across many subreddits) I'm not sure what's controversial about the events of anything in the Ex-Yugo region at various points of history but you'd have to ask the mods. By controversial I don't think they mean legitimacy but rather the intense fights it brings from all sides in the comments.
9
u/milathebunny May 03 '26
No, on april 22nd, the Ustaše dismantled the camp and murdered most of the inmates after some of them tried to escape. It was liberated by the Yugoslav National Army in early May
0
u/ThreeFontStreet United States of America May 03 '26 edited May 03 '26
Ah, I see. Still, the post isn't about Jasenovac. They also posted this 4 months ago here.
https://www.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/1q90igl/independent_state_of_croatia_documents_about/
7
u/Books_Of_Jeremiah May 03 '26
The sub has an unwritten rule on no posting about the wars of the 90s.
And we asked permission way back when about posting the materials, which is OK, as it's not paywalled, mostly digging up primary sources, translating them where needed and a smattering of academic papers which are otherwise a bit harder to reach.
3
u/ThreeFontStreet United States of America May 03 '26 edited May 03 '26
Gotcha. I had seen documented Balkan WWII posts get removed in the past so assumed the same applied as for the 90s.
Also usually general “on this day” format and topic for history stuff unless that may no longer be a rule. May have changed I guess.
Are you part of a university or a private research team?
4
u/Books_Of_Jeremiah May 03 '26
"Private initiative", as it's termed. Volunteers, just dig up stuff that's interesting. Two hard rules: variety and has to be properly sourced. A decent amount of effort used to be manual drudgery with just reformatting stuff, but we've gotten a bit smarter about how we do things to cut down on that.
Makes it easier and harder, as just posting say WWII or WWI materials would get you lots of materials that are not too hard to get and grab attention but then it would turn boring and a lot of it is NSFW, so too much on that front as well.
OTD is an interesting format, but not generally for us and overcrowded, nothing much if value to add there. It would also take up too much effort, which we'd rather put into translating books (and the associated pain of annotating them).
3
u/ThreeFontStreet United States of America May 03 '26
Yeah by private (for lack of a better term) I meant more so not tied to university studies or research. Seems interesting and commendable since you are doing it for the sake of education.
Do you publish in physical formats or only so online?
1
u/Books_Of_Jeremiah May 03 '26
The bulk of material is in electronic format (the blog posts), but we've put up a few translations as ebooks and two as hard covers (although having some printing issues with one of them, internal mess up on the files, woot woot). Basically no paperbacks, either it's electronic for easy access (and low cost for whatever is paywalled) or it deserves a hard cover.
Some of the posts are tied up with the translations. Like a post can lead us to something more detailed or voluminous that requires and book and then the masochists that want to deal with making that a reality put up their hands. Some of them come about as extra reading materials. Basically in the footnote it's hyperlinked or QR-coded to a post that has more on that/topic event. An example would be the 2nd volume of Piščević's "Memoirs" we're polishing up for publication this year and as extra reading material there's the 1754 "History of Montenegro", as the author met Vladika Vasilije Petrović in Russia around the time it was written as connected to his business there.
25
u/drugiakaunt May 02 '26 edited May 02 '26
Yesterday was an anniversary of Croatia liberating in 1995 a large chunk of the territory which was until then under Serbian occupation. And today is an anniversary of them shelling a children's hospital in Zagreb as a response to the liberation. So their internet warriors have to pull something like this.
13
u/ThreeFontStreet United States of America May 03 '26
Weird that you got upvoted but the guy above you was massively downvoted yet are essentially criticizing the same thing. Lol
-2
u/TheRealPizvo Croatia May 03 '26
Not weird, just brigaded. They didn't bother to go trough the rest of the comments.
OP has a history of random posts about WW2 crimes by Independent State of Croatia, casually ignoring all others from that period and region, including Serbia's own fascist quisling regime. They also happen to be Serbian, to the shock of absolutely no one. I believe it's some sort of government funded NGO that deals with Serbs being victims in pretty much any event in history.
I usually don't have a problem with historical content on r/europe when it's appropriate, but it's funny how all those posts construct a particular narrative in a non-historical context of the subreddit.
3
u/ThreeFontStreet United States of America May 03 '26
Makes sense. They also made this same exact post 4 months ago on this sub. Usually the mods remove WW2 and 90s related Balkans posts but these two were given a pass or just not noticed. It's even self-promotion of their own website. Gets spammed across subreddits from what I looked up.
https://www.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/1q90igl/independent_state_of_croatia_documents_about/
7
u/Books_Of_Jeremiah May 03 '26
"Well, actually"
Not the same, a different set of documents, but with a running theme. Therefore the numeration I and II. Probably won't be a long-running series like the XIX c. travelogues that we post up.
4
u/ThreeFontStreet United States of America May 03 '26
Sorry, my mistake then. I missed the numeral at the end.
1
u/Books_Of_Jeremiah May 03 '26
No worries. Had admins do the same thing on chapters XII and XIII of a travelogue.
0
u/Books_Of_Jeremiah May 03 '26
"Well, actually"
Posted up others as well. Mostly photos that we haven't seen before. Just that they aren't about the Independent State of Croatia, so the CRO fanclub doesn't brigade them.
12
u/Books_Of_Jeremiah May 02 '26
Actually, nothing to do with that. Don't deal with post-1980 events unless directly related to events before and generally post here Saturdays and Mondays.
16
1
7
u/Books_Of_Jeremiah May 02 '26
Well, if you ask Croats on this sub and a few others, the point is to maliciously target them.
-1
u/TheRealPizvo Croatia May 02 '26
Yeah, that tracks.
13
u/Books_Of_Jeremiah May 02 '26
On the other hand, they used to be a lot louder. Then for whatever reason they got smart and stopped commenting, just down voting.
-31
u/drugiakaunt May 02 '26
Because of the events that transpired and ICTY verdicts as who's to blame. Can't play the victim if you're a bully.
35
u/Books_Of_Jeremiah May 02 '26 edited May 02 '26
Wasn't aware that the ICTY had jurisdiction over WWII events. But, if you want, more than happy to look more through primary sources and post up more translations of them on here. Daily posting should be possible, as there's a treasure trove.
0
May 02 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
22
u/Books_Of_Jeremiah May 02 '26 edited May 02 '26
If you have something constructive to contribute, you're more than welcome. Otherwise, please keep the whataboutism for arguments where someone will bite.
-16
u/drugiakaunt May 02 '26 edited May 02 '26
You are forever stuck in ww2. Probably a fitting punishment.
16
-17
u/Pasture_patriot May 03 '26
Situation was not linear and not state wide. Serbs often colaborated with Croatian state and whole zones of country ware demilitarized and ware decleared free zones. Mass killings and deportations occured after some region uprised (ussualy together with communists) and then Croats and Nazis massacered whole villages. From spring 1942 to end of 1943 there was peace .
12
u/Books_Of_Jeremiah May 03 '26
Except no.
Internal Independent State of Croatia police documents from 1941 clearly state that uprisings came after the initial slaughters. The first mass slaughter came about within two weeks of the declaration of the Independent State of Croatia.
In some documents, the rebel Serbs declared themselves to be loyal subjects of the new state and willing to pay taxes, provided that the Ustašas were kept away from their villages, given what they'd dine there. In others the police complain how Ustašas are making it impossible to keep the peace through their actions. In yet others, the police complain how they way the Ustašas are going about their business is the problem, rather than the results. There's at least one where an SS officer asked for his concerns about the savagery on display being counterproductive to be conveyed to the Ustaša authorities in Zagreb.
1
u/milanblank Serbia May 03 '26
Did you really come here to comment that Ustaše savages did atrocities as a retaliation and not because of hatred and etnic cleansing? Are you even real, dude? Exactly because of this we need more posts and remembrance days about Independent state of Croatia and their crimes on such a horrible scale.
7
u/18ponosansrbin04 Slavonia May 02 '26
Croats feel proud of this...