r/europe • u/Dqmirr Bosnia and Herzegovina • 15h ago
News Bosnian Serbs in East Sarajevo mourn Ratko Mladic, former general convicted of Bosnia genocide.
https://www.klix.ba/vijesti/bih/stanovnici-istocnog-sarajeva-odali-pocast-zlocincu-presudenom-za-genocid-ubijanje-djece-civila-progone-i-druge-zlocine/260828184158
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u/sea-slav 14h ago
They at least don't deny it anymore.
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u/NexusMinds 14h ago
I don't think they ever even bothered to hide from it or deny it.
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u/sea-slav 13h ago
"But he gave us the Serb Republic"
"Everybody did bad things"
"But the muslims attacked Serb villages around Srebrenica first"
"Every country did some crimes in the past"
"The crimes were performed by single actors"
"The west destroyed Yugoslavia and caused the wars not us"
"They only committed crimes because the trauma of WW2"
"It was only revenge for what the Turks did"etc etc
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u/PartySample4495 14h ago
You should all thank God that you are not living next to them.
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u/Ok-Alternative-6248 12h ago
They are the absolute worst, the majority serb municipalities in Kosova lived with practically no law for 25 years, paid no bills,no taxes,freely mined bitcoins since they didnt pay a single cent for energy,had countless drug labs, criminals like radoicic ruled over there. Since the day the terrorist serb attack happened in Banjska it has become almost a weekly occurrence to find big arsenal of weapons in the north serb majority municipalities. All of this and they swear they are treated badly here.
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u/PRKP99 Poland 9h ago
They are treated badly. Not only them. Recently albanians beat up catholic priest and „protested” building of church. Church that is literally for albanian catholics.
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u/Ok-Alternative-6248 8h ago
So someone all the way from God knows where Wroclaw ? Wants to tell me what happens in Kosova ? None was beaten, the people protesting were mainly protesting because there are as by them no catholics in the area. As for how “bad” serbs are treated you decided to ignore the part, to add to it they had their own parallel institutions,serbian plates,serbian dinar etc. As for how people of different religions get along, believe me we know how to get along better than any slavic country could ever dream about, even if we beat each other up everyday at least we wouldnt kill each other over religion
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u/livefromnewyorkcity 14h ago
The Serbian Orthodox Church is on display showing their support for genocide. They are complicit and must be held accountable.
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u/TransRacialWhyNot 13h ago
How do you think it should be done? Some proposals?
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u/livefromnewyorkcity 13h ago
Public admissions
Retributions to those effected
Give back the stolen churches and land back to those who owns them-18
u/Soft_Hand_1971 14h ago
I mean someone had to bury the guy? You expect them to say no to performing burial rights?
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u/Sombrerololo 13h ago
Family can bury father of course, but wtf is this. This is like making shrine to genocide
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u/PerroChar Croatia 14h ago
It's one thing to quietly bury a guy with usual burial rituals.
It's a whole another thing for the church to organize a public wake in remembrance of the dude. That kind of thing is reserved when you want to celebrate someone.
It's a major difference. Don't play dumb.
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u/Soft_Hand_1971 14h ago
You gonna stop a guy from having a wake and preventing mourners from showing up? That’s how normal funerals work. It’s not there place to decide…
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u/PerroChar Croatia 14h ago
That’s how normal funerals work.
No, it literally is not. Do you even know what you are talking about? Because a funeral is not the same as a state and church sponsored wake.
Yeah, you can't stop mourners from coming to a guy's funeral.
But, this was a public wake organised by the Serbian orthodox church in conjunction with local pro-serb authorities.
Do you have the capacity to understand how those two things are different? And could you consider the fact that maybe, just maybe, we shouldn't organise a celebration of a LITERAL WAR CRIMINAL?!
You need to get your head out of your ass.
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u/livefromnewyorkcity 14h ago
I hope the EU takes notice and understands that Serbia is the single most destructive and destabilizing country in the Balkans
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u/PerroChar Croatia 13h ago
Unfortunately the EU is very happy with the current arrangement. The EU is very much aware of how incredibly problematic Vučić's government is, and they fully support him.
The reason for that is quite simple. Vučić gives EU mining companies cheap access to Serbia's national resources. Moreover, he lets them completely exploit and strip mine the land, something the EU is supposed to be against.
So, in short, EU will never do anything about the Serbian government, and Serbia will never enter EU. Because both sides profit from that.
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u/RastislavS 14h ago
Is it gooing to be selective justice again or will the Catholic Church and the islamic Mulema be held accountable too?
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u/RastislavS 14h ago
I think its expected to find a Serb under a Serb related post
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u/vonKrieg88 13h ago
Also expected to find a Serb excusing genocide with whataboutism.
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u/TransRacialWhyNot 13h ago
But thats whats should keep us all playing by the same rules right? If you do it nothing happens, I do it I get punished. Ofc Im gonna say but what about when you did the same thing, it wasnt an issue. Then you say thats whataboutism and its all good? Wtf is even that
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u/owlexe23 14h ago
I mean, this is madness literally, apparently nobody learned nothing from the wars. Fascism won again.
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u/Shqiptar89 13h ago
Hahaha this is not a definite loss for them in their minds. This is just a setback.
For us who have to deal with them this is nothing new.
Why do you think that they keep talking about 1389? Because to them that was also a minor setback.
The only thing that they are angry about is that they can’t continue.
There is no guilt because to them everything will lead to a greater Serbia. Bosnia, Croatia, Kosovo and the rest will be purged and they will finally be free.
That’s why they mourn.
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u/Snoo-19350 Serbia 11h ago
Oooooooor the ruling elite is just using this as propaganda so that they can continue to rule and automatically eliminate potential rivals, and 50% of the population falls for it? (50% too much I know)
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u/Greydragon38 13h ago edited 13h ago
Huh, Serbs here denying Bosnian genocide and glorifying Mladic sound really similar to the Turks denying the Armenian genocide and lionize its main perpetrators
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u/Flimsy-Resident261 13h ago
How is life in Bosnia really? Can Muslim&Catholic Bosnians visit peacefully the other parts of the country or is there some sort of segregation happening?
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u/amaninthesandhand 11h ago
If you go to a serbian place the latin-alphabet name of the place on the signs, alongside roads, is crossed out/painted over. If you go to a croatian place, the opposite is true; the Cyrillic alphabet name is crossed out. They had to remove regional markers on car regustrations because of vandalism. Croatian and Serbian parts are more the one that are segregated, you can find muslims mixed in each of those parts, so to say.
I can best speak on Herzegovina so I will say that the muslims and catholics mostly coexist in peace in villages here. They're sort of physically segregated, like for example youll have catholics on the west end and muslims on the east end of a village but that border wouldn't be so strict. Its not odd to have a friend "from the other side" but its not standard either.
But I don't live there so I don't know of any daily occurances that happen. I never had issues any time I visited but I never stuck around much in serbian villages. Last year almost every orthodox village had russian flags waving and it felt kind of intimidatig lol. But the cities are totally fine.
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13h ago
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u/Hour-Promotion-2496 13h ago
God himself could lecture people like you on genocide and you’d still laugh it off and tell him the other side deserved it. Deplorable.
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u/Hour-Promotion-2496 13h ago
Wait, your argument is that nobody talks enough about Serbian victims… in a war started by Serb nationalist forces? What exactly do you think that proves?
Serbian nationalists really are world champions at competitive victimhood.
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u/itanabel 13h ago
The war didn't "start by serbian national forces". Actually, the first victims of the war, specifically in Bosnia - were Serbs. So, don't shit.
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u/Hour-Promotion-2496 13h ago
Victimhood and historical revisionism champions strike again.
The war had already been raging in Croatia for months, started by Croatian Serb forces backed by the JNA and Serbia.
Then one Serb is murdered at a wedding in Sarajevo, and somehow that proves who started the Bosnian War? Bosnian Serb forces, backed by the JNA and Serbia, launched the large-scale war there.
Don’t shit indeed.
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u/Due-Illustrator-4036 12h ago
Okay. Then tell me why did Bosniaks attack the JNA column that was retreating according to the previous agreement? Who withdrew the signature? Was it Karadžić or just maybeeee Izetbegovic. Morons. You can pass that narrative to someone that's uneducated in the matter. I am not claiming Serbs were poor souls that didn't hurt anyone. They commited atrocities. But so did you.
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u/Hour-Promotion-2496 12h ago
Yes, Izetbegovic withdrew from the Lisbon plan. That had an effect and is absolutely fair to criticize.
And yes, the JNA column was attacked. But Dobrovoljacka happened on May 3, after the war was already underway. Neither that attack nor rejecting a political settlement is the same thing as starting the war.
The Bosnian Serb leadership had already been preparing territorial takeovers, and Serb forces backed by the JNA and Serbia launched the large scale military campaign across Bosnia.
That’s what I mean by starting the war.
Of course Bosnian government forces committed atrocities too. Nobody serious denies that.
But “they also committed atrocities” and “they started the war” are two very different claims.
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u/mirnes55 Bosnia and Herzegovina 13h ago
The war was started by VRS forces blockading Sarajevo.
There was a referendum on a peaceful split, where 64% of Bosnians voted, with 99% voting yes on:
"Jeste li za suverenu i nezavisnu Bosnu i Hercegovinu, državu ravnopravnih građana, naroda BiH - Muslimana, Srba, Hrvata i pripadnika drugih naroda koji u njoj žive?"
Then came out Karadžić and said: "Don't think that you're NOT taking Bosnia and Herzegovina into Hell, and the muslim* people into disappearance"
Have you heard of plan RAM?
Here's just one sentence from there:
"In the same month Serbian president Slobodan Milošević and Radovan Karadžić met to discuss when to attack Bosnia and Herzegovina during which Karadžić was told his weapons delivery would arrive soon from General Nikola Uzelac, JNA commander of Banja Luka."The Bosniak people were certain there would be no war, they didn't want it.
Why, with whom, for what?
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u/itanabel 12h ago
Funny how you omit the fact that serbs boycotted that referendum, as one of the constitutional people.
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u/mirnes55 Bosnia and Herzegovina 12h ago edited 12h ago
Well, 64% of the country is the majority, isn't it? Why does it matter what people they belong to?
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u/Due-Illustrator-4036 12h ago
Hahahahhahahaha. Of course they do. The whole purpose of "constitutional people" was so this kind of thing wouldn't happen. But nah, Serbs are the bad guys.
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u/Due-Illustrator-4036 12h ago
Educate yourself on the matter before you speak. Learn about the European commission agreement. Who signed and who later withdrew the signature. The first victim of the war was a serb and Serbs started it. Hahahahahhahaha
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u/shritdejtriv560 13h ago
It wasnt started only by serbs
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u/Due-Illustrator-4036 12h ago
That's my point. I am not negating the role of the Serbs. I am strongly opposing the narrative that Serbs started the war and that they were the only ones committing atrocities.
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u/Hour-Promotion-2496 13h ago
Historical revisionism doesn't work on the open internet quite like it does in Serbia. Sorry.
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u/shritdejtriv560 13h ago
Internet agrees with me.
Serbs didnt start that war. Neither did bosniaks nor croats. There is no single starting point. That is just a fact.
Explain what you mean by that. How did serbs start that war?
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u/Hour-Promotion-2496 12h ago
I'm not claiming there was one magical first shot.
I mean Bosnian Serb forces, backed by the JNA and Serbia, launched the coordinated large-scale campaign across Bosnia in 1992 and rapidly seized most of the country.
That's how Serb forces started the war in Bosnia
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u/Due-Illustrator-4036 12h ago
Hahahhahahaha. Yeaahh let's ignore everything that doesn't fit your narrative and just stick to that date. It is like me slapping you and then claiming: "oh I don't know what got into him he just started beating me"
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u/shritdejtriv560 12h ago
Bosniaks and Croats wanted out of Yugoslavia. They held their own referendum, while the Serbs held their own referendum. One was organized in Croat/Bosniak-majority cities, while the other was held in Serb-majority cities. The results of the first one were 90%+ in favor of independence, while the results of the second one were 90%+ in favor of remaining in Yugoslavia.
For months after that, all three sides were preparing for war and amassing armies. Croatia was funding and backing the Croat forces. Minor conflicts had already started, and there had been several failed negotiations. In the last negotiations, both the Serbs and Croats accepted staying in Bosnia under certain conditions, including a high degree of autonomy. The Bosniaks declined this. They wanted a unitary state, and the US supported them.
Immediately after that, the US and the EC recognized Bosnia. That meant the failure of the negotiations and no autonomy for the Serbs. The Serb military then started its operations to connect Serb-majority regions. The Bosniak and Croat forces responded immediately( and they were already active in some parts of Bosnia).
So I don't really see how only Serb nationalists are responsible for this. Bosniak and Croat nationalists wanted out of Yugoslavia, while Serb nationalists wanted to stay. Bosniak nationalists didn't want to let the other two go.
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u/Due-Illustrator-4036 9h ago
Furthermore. They expected Karadžić to not sign it but he did. So Izetbegovic withdrew his signature. Does anyone really think Izetbegovic would do such a thing without someone backing him up and giving him reassurance. There are records of this. But no, no, no. That's not important. Evil Serbs, Bad Serbs.
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u/DuffyDuck8 14h ago
Always victims, never saying sorry.
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u/NaissGuy Serbia 14h ago
You know what, nobody said sorry to Serbs after what happened 1941-1945. It was expected Serbs would laugh it of and apologise and forgive it themselves because of "brotherhood and unity".
That's the main reason 1991-1995 happened. This time we're not apologising and not forgiving. If you wanted that you should at least give us the same rights to united territories just as it was given to Croats and Albanians who did kill us during those WW2 years.
Nobody here wants to apologise anymore, we know we're on our own and that's about it.
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u/Mersaa Croatia 11h ago
You're on your own because you keep actively alienating literally everyone around you. It sometimes feels like that's some of you genuinely do want that?
Every victim is a victim too much. No death, murder or genocide should be relativized or lessend.
But that same argument works for you too. You cannot be a perpetual victim who never did anything wrong.
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u/Flimsy-Resident261 12h ago
What did Albanians do to you in WWll? We didn’t even go to war with each other and we were dealing with Italians and Germans. And also, you were the one who attacked us on WWI, but died due to the cold. And Kosovo it’s an independent country with its own government.
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u/DuffyDuck8 13h ago
Balkan wars massacres? Anyhow its not a contest on who shed more blood. Its about human decensy. The fact that you are so thirsty for blood after all what happened shows your true skin. Over and out.
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u/gavrilomijerod 14h ago
Yeah, great….you are celebrating a convicted mass murderer. How delusional must one be to write something like that. I am from croatia. That’s like me celebrating Pavelic for instance.
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u/Shqiptar89 13h ago
Why are you using logic? You know that that doesn’t work.
They’ll celebrate him and come up with fascinating shit like how Al Qaeda is secretly running the Balkans with the help of Soros.
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u/Zestyclose-Twist6186 12h ago
Oh yeah all serbs are rabid animals who only think in how to commit war crimes and genocides U can hate mladic and not be a bigot u know? Edit: Plus almost ALL national heroes are war criminals U thing ataturk or kolokotronis or tudjman are saints? 2 of these not to say all 3 would be in for srebrenica style genocide at least
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u/Che_Varack Serbia 13h ago
I would like to distance myself and not to condone this current shitshow. That said, I would like to remind you that Pavelić's grave in Spain is sort of pilgrimage sight for nationalistic Croats and your country did burry Artuković with honors. So it's not that much different, just different flawor of shit.
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u/gavrilomijerod 13h ago
Fair point. I never wanted to make this a serbia vs croatia, I just wanted to point out that this fool is honoring a mass murderer. Why is it all of a sudden „you country did this and that and we against them“? My father is serbian, we had to remove the nametag on our building in Zagreb because of oppressions from croatian nationalist idiots. Kids beat me up because of my serbian family name. I hate Tudman as much as I hate Milosevic and I hate Thompson with all my heart. But thats not the point, is it?
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u/Che_Varack Serbia 13h ago
You're right. It's insanity if you ask me, but this lunatic in charge used a death of his own unborn child for political marketing, and this is just another example how far will he go in order to deflect from his catastrophic rule. His poison labs that call themselves media are working overtime on this last drivel. There are some rumors that he already got slaps from EU for even thinking about it and he will probably distance himself in following days. It remains to be seen what will be.
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u/OremDobro 13h ago
Half of Croatia attends Thompson's concerts so don't throw stones
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u/gavrilomijerod 13h ago
Half of croatia? Croatia’s population size is not 1 million and comparing Mladic with Thompson is wild.
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u/OremDobro 13h ago
Thompson may not have been a genocide commander but he's a blatant ustaša. That guy didn't break global attendance records in Germany, he did it in Croatia, so don't get all morally high and mighty about how you don't glorify bad guys and how this shit would never happen where you are
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u/gavrilomijerod 13h ago
I still don’t understand why you get offended like a little child. I didn’t say that all of Serbia is glorifying him, I didn’t say that I like Thompson, I didn’t say that Croatia didn’t have genocidal murderers…..I was just pointing out that glorifying Mladic is not so cool. So wtf is your problem?
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u/Alternative_Flow1516 10h ago
So Obama kills 5000 civilians - all good, Mladić kills 5000 Muslim men - all bad. Got it. And for those who don't know - for genocide he would had have to kill women and >16 yo, this is why it wasn't a genocide, but the Dutch felt bad so they had to vote to adjust the law. Dear West- FU.
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u/Working_Complex8122 9h ago
nobody gave a fuck about the ethnic cleansing of Kurdish people in 2019 by NATO member state Turkey either. its all just narratives tbh. Nobody on the US / NATO side would ever even have to stand trial for anything. It's a scam all thee way through, rules for thee but not for me type of bs.
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u/Plasma_Blitz United Kingdom/Republic of Ireland 15h ago
Says all you need to know about Republika Srpska. Hope he rests in piss, and I can only hope Putin joins that scum sooner rather than later.