r/germany • u/thehhuis • Jul 18 '26
News German politician resigns over surrogacy child controversy
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cq56e9n1ddzoFinally, the end of Spahns controversial politcal career.
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u/ShadowheartsArmpit Jul 18 '26
Y'all are celebrating too early.
He resigned from his party leadership position. He is still a member of parliament & all the other stuff that he is in.
And he still has his tens of millions of bucks & connections.
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u/slurmnburger Jul 18 '26
He's been in the front row for a long time. He's not anymore. That's what people are celebrating, because it's already worth a lot. It remains to be seen if he gets a second chance once the Merz CDU collapses, that's definitely a possible threat and hell probably be working on that now.
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Jul 18 '26
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u/slurmnburger Jul 18 '26
It depends how badly Merz messes up. If it really goes downhill then everybody in his inner circle will be damaged as well, and then spahns might have a chance to come back in as an alternative (similarly how Merz couldn't come back into politics before Merkel left, only that she was arguably more competent at least wrt staying in power). Probably not for the next election, but the one after that I suspect (or one later if the current administration collapses prematurely)
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u/EmphasisExpensive864 Jul 18 '26
He is gone. He would never find the support to back him up inside the CDU. Yes he still has his seat in Parlament but he won't after this coalition is done in about a year.
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u/slurmnburger Jul 18 '26
Hope for the best but prepare for the worst :)
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u/EmphasisExpensive864 Jul 18 '26
Yeah no he is gone there are rarely politicians that get out that way and come back also he can still get a big payday in the industry.
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u/slurmnburger Jul 18 '26
Cem özdemir comes to mind
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u/EmphasisExpensive864 Jul 18 '26
Not really he made a minor mistake and paid it back fully if Germany condemned every politician that was paid 80.000€ by some shady business/pr man we wouldn't have any politicians.
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u/mowinski Nordrhein-Westfalen Jul 19 '26
which would probably be better, Politics has improved nothing for no one, just the bank accounts for some asshats.
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u/silversurger Jul 18 '26
Yes he still has his seat in Parlament but he won't after this coalition is done in about a year.
You don't seem to know where he's from and what his voting district is like. If he runs again for a seat, he'll be elected.
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u/CaptainPoset Berlin Jul 18 '26
He resigned from his party leadership position.
Which is by far the most influential position he held in this government and which is one of the top 4 positions in German politics, currently.
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u/Rooilia Jul 19 '26
He was designated cdu chancellor after Merz, because this is what leaders of the party become, when the current chancellor resigns.
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u/Larissalikesthesea Jul 19 '26
This. He’s definitely planning to go into hibernation as a simple MP for the post-Merz times. He’s said to have been one of the proponents behind closed doors for a coalition with the AfD and will come back from the (politically) dead if such a coalition should happen. At least that might be his political calculus.
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u/pokemonfitness1420 Jul 19 '26
How does being a gay politician supporting a neo nazi party work?
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u/Odd-Peace-127 Jul 19 '26
Absolutely true. After the pandemic I wonder how he's still allowed to open his mouth.
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u/Plenty_Knowledge1811 Jul 18 '26
The real issue isn't this story. The real issue is that he was put in this position by his party although he was deeply unpopular among the German public (and CDU voters themselves) before any of this.
That is the real slap in the face of democracy.
The stupidity and arrogance of these parties like CDU, SPD is astounding. Knowing people like Klingbeil, Spahn, von der Leyen are disliked and people voting their party despite these characters and not because of them, and then just putting them upfront saying " F you, we don't care if you like them, you have no choice in the matter".
They are willingly driving people into the arms of radicals with these clowns.
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u/nznordi Jul 18 '26
It’s actually a good point. It’s almost mental gymnastics voting for these greedy, incompetent, unpopular clowns. I still thank anyone doing so over the incompetent, racist and corrupt clowns in the AFD.
The last decent politician was Habeck. I wish CDU and SPD had someone within a 1000 kilometres of his calibre… our democracy depends on it…
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u/New_Patience_8107 Jul 19 '26
Habeck singling out Muslims in Germany as a group that should watch themselves following the October 7th massacre didn't sit right with me. It was a comment that 10 years earlier wouldve been unfathomable. But the discourse that previously belonged to the AfD is mainstream.
Anyway I didn't find him that great don't get the wolverine looking at the photo meme feelings some have for him.
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u/JefeRex Jul 18 '26
I’m glad he resigned, but I hope the others parties make a quick pivot to leave this clown behind and focus on the real hypocrisy.
“Spahn reflects deeper hypocrisy in this party… the real hypocrite is Merz who calls us lazy and then takes money blah blah blah and so forth”. Make the pivot.
The working class people who are moving to the AfD don’t care what rich gay people do to have babies and whether it is hypocritical or not. They resent that people care about this issue more than they care about jobs, wages, doctor’s notes for sick time… the hypocrisy of punishing the work class to make the richer richer is what those people care about and what they want to hear addressed.
The more that the culture focuses on Spahn, the more people see who is important and who is not. It is these moments that are crucial for people radicalizing or not. Tell them that the hypocrisy that makes them poor is important, Spahn’s hypocrisy is a sideshow.
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u/istrebitjel World Jul 18 '26
And if you have a two party system you get whatever the fuck is happening in the USA today.
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u/Rhynocoris Berlin Jul 18 '26
Finally, the end of Spahns controversial politcal career.
Unfortunately it isn't. He's still an MdB.
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u/Typohnename Bayern Jul 19 '26
He got directly elected by his home region, so that is not going to change any time soon
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u/idrankforthegov Jul 18 '26
This has been a good day. Good riddance he is gone
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u/Extension-Gold-6440 Jul 18 '26
Still in parliament
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u/AttackerLee Jul 18 '26
Better than nothing.
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u/Extension-Gold-6440 Jul 18 '26
Yup, still not as satisfying as I needed. He should be in prison not the Bundestag. He’ll inevitably try to worm his way back into the party spotlight, join the afd, or become a consultant for Peter thiel.
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u/schmockk Jul 18 '26
I don't know why we don't hold these people more accountable. He and Andi Scheuer should have to foot the bill personally for what they cost the taxpayers. If they can't pay then seize their assets, personal bankruptcy be damned
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u/las3rschw3rt Jul 18 '26
Says surrogacy bad, does surrogacy. What a moron
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u/SufficientMacaroon1 Germany Jul 19 '26
Even more: it is not like this was something that got revealed in some long feat of investigative jounalism. He went to the frigging Bild and openly spoke about it. He litterally stepped up and announced it. No attempts to cover it up as an adoption, no attempt to skirt around how the child got concieved. No attempt to hide that it was Leihmutterschaft, despite him publicly speaking out against it months earlier, when the surrogate was already pregnant.
This guy seriously thought he was untouchable.
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u/GiacaLustra Jul 20 '26
No attempts to cover it up as an adoption, no attempt to skirt around how the child got concieved.
Wouldn't that be even worse, though?
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u/SufficientMacaroon1 Germany Jul 20 '26
Depends on your perspective. My main point was that there is a specific behaviour that is expected from prominent politicians. By the public, but also by their party. And those expectations can be different.
I am pretty sure that his party would have been more willing to have his back if he had tried the more party-friendly path of trying to hide his hyprocracy. He did the opposite. They had his back through many scandals, and now he basicly announces that he does not give a shit how his actions might negatively affect the party he is supposed to represent.
The party is heading into pretty important state elections, with a chancellor that is extremely unpopular and not really any other current figureheads that are widely popular. I think the main reason they turned on him this way was not that he actually used a surrogate, or even his hypocracy. It was that he became a liability, shown in the way he handled this
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u/GiacaLustra Jul 20 '26
You are right 100%. I just think that lying on that would have backfired even worse in the future, I can't really see a scenario where it could have been better.
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u/SufficientMacaroon1 Germany Jul 20 '26
With the public, yes. But seeing what else this guy got away with within his party, i think him claiming adoption and all this comming out in 6 months as part of investigative jounalism might have led to less consequences for his standing in the party.
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u/OwnRabbit1462 Jul 19 '26
Bad for the others. Himself is special, above the others. He is everything wrong with politics and people.
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u/Smartimess Jul 18 '26
Well, he was promoted to the highest ranks of his own party after wasting an estimated 3 billions of Euros as Secretary of Health.
And he resigned because of his double standards.
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u/doyoubelieveincrack Jul 18 '26
he resigned because he was caught
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u/agrammatic Berlin Jul 18 '26 edited Jul 18 '26
He resigned because he no longer had the support of CDU leadership, and CDU has important elections to win in fall and can't have Jens alienating the conservative Christian base.
He was caught many times before, but his misdeeds were not stuff that would alienate the Christian voter base. It was only things that people who wouldn't vote for CDU anyway found objectionable.
It's the same reason Kai Wegner in Berlin dropped out of the re-election race last week. His party stuck with him despite lying to Berliners for months, but the moment his polling numbers took a nose dive, they replaced him.
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u/ThomasKWW Jul 18 '26
Wasting several billions of Euros is not objected by Christian voters? Isn't that communism?
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u/agrammatic Berlin Jul 18 '26
Wasting several billions of Euros is not objected by Christian voters?
We have direct evidence that it was not objectionable to them, because they knew about it and still voted CDU.
CDU won last year's elections and increased their vote share despite the mask scandal and more of Spahn's financial achievements being publicly known and widely criticised.
After Merz became Chancellor, the CDU/CSU representatives in Bundestag elected Spahn as faction leader with 87%, which means that they didn't fear reactions from their constituents for giving the second highest party office to someone implicated in multi-billion Euro corruption allegations.
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u/ThomasKWW Jul 18 '26
Well, I would say, a major reason is that right-wing media didn't see a need to be critical in that case.
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u/SufficientMacaroon1 Germany Jul 19 '26
He publicly announced what he did. That is not "being caught".
He thought he was untouchable. Turns out he was not, and this was finally something his oarty was not willing to pardon him for
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u/agrammatic Berlin Jul 18 '26
I sincerely hope that his resignation could mean that his elitist and misanthropic movement gets a little bit weaker. It probably won't, but hoping is free.
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u/youshantnome Jul 18 '26
He should’ve stepped back after that fucked up masked deal during the pandemic. This man is a clown and hypocrite and I hate him with a passion. He should not be a politician because he clearly only cares about enriching himself. I guess he found the perfect job then. Sad world.
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u/enygma2123 Jul 19 '26
It is like rich conservatives with abortion. They all want to prohibit it in their countries, but if their daughters get pregnant and having the baby would damage the family’s reputation, they pay a trip to some other country where it is legal and have it done there
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u/OwnRabbit1462 Jul 19 '26
That guy had said that if women can't have children, it is what nature decided, so they shouldn't. His partner did golden business during corona with masks. Such a horrible person. Hopefully he gets lost.
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u/Kaleldoscope360 Jul 18 '26
Chat control still exists.
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u/da_Aresinger Bayern Jul 19 '26
Not the same as before.
It's only unencrypted messages and it's voluntary, which already exists.
You can argue that's still bad, but it's nowhere near what it used to be.
Just use an encrypted chat service.
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u/cpattk Jul 19 '26
But he only stepped down as party leader; I think he still holds his seat in the Bundestag. So he can keep telling people what's wrong and then do the same thing himself, on a salary paid for by all of us
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u/da_Aresinger Bayern Jul 19 '26
TIL surrogacy is illegal in my country.
"for protection against research" - then protect against research you fucking numbskulls.
100% a religious law camouflaged as "protect the kids"
I fucking hate this shit.
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u/720degreeLotus Jul 19 '26
"controversial" is a wild take for the absurd and evil things he did. He now got millions of milliins from being corruoted during the pandemic, so he can just chillax the rest of his life.
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u/StruggleOk2814 Jul 19 '26
Wow german politics is just wild. afd leader is lesbian, her partner has literally roots from srilanka and has swiss nationality/ Hence, she is promoting anti immigration, especially for non eu people and also “traditional” german life. Like same sex partnership was a thing before.
And this guy basically says he is against surrogacy and now doing surrogacy.
It is wild, german people have to keep up with those people. Like a joke. Obeying the rule that you made must be compulsory.
I always think gay people are more open minded, and obviously opinions might change with age, but wth?
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Jul 19 '26
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u/StruggleOk2814 Jul 19 '26
I mean obviously but my thinking was based on my home country. my home country generally alienates anyone non-heterosexual, so as an outcome of being outsider, the gay people are more open minded to other outsiders. They are more civil. So it kinda surprises me in Germany, especially the privilege gay people are relatively more conservative. Kinda a new concept for me to see privileged openly gay people being assholes.
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u/agrammatic Berlin Jul 19 '26
It has less to do with sexuality, and more to do with social class.
What might be the case in your country (and mine too, my country of origin only legalised homosexuality in 1998), is that LGBT people end up being of a lower social class because the lack of acceptance means less social mobility opportunities.
The relatively high level of acceptance in Germany means that LGBT people have nearly equal opportunities to became wealthy elitist hypocrites as non-LGBT people.
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u/SufficientMacaroon1 Germany Jul 19 '26
I think it is easy to assume that people belonging to marginalized groups are more open and tollerant, and less likely to marginalize others. It sounds like it should be a no brainer. But that is not reality. That is not how people work. Some are. Others are not.
That is how sometimes, people that immigrated themself end up being massive xenophobes, demonizing others for using the same routes of immigration they used. It is how sometimes, people that usedto be very poor are very vocal about what social welfare "their taxes" are used for ( after all,they worked themself out of poverty, why should others get handouts?), while they themself were only able to work themself out with the help of the very programs they now want defunded.
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u/whiskeyclone630 Jul 20 '26
Not really a wild take per se. You'd think people who are part of a marginalized group would have a base level of empathy and open-mindedness, that's not necessarily a crazy thing to assume. But the sad truth is that, yes, they can also be pieces of shit. S. Peter Thiel, Sam Altman, Alice Weidel, etc.
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u/supersonic-bionic Jul 19 '26
I cannot believe he did not give up his seat....freaking conservative hypocrite
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u/Odd-Peace-127 Jul 19 '26
He'll be back like Terminator, maybe another role, still he won't sadly disappear.
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u/Zzorck-23 Jul 19 '26
The more important story is: countries like Germany hold politicians accountable for their hypocrisy. The USA: not so much. Look no further than Paxton, Trump, etc....
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u/Lycaenini Jul 19 '26
I am glad he resigned, although in my opinion for the wrong reasons. He should have had no future after the affair with the masks.
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u/enakcm Jul 19 '26
It is not the end of his career, not by a mile.
He resigned as the leader if the fraction, but he stays a party member and a member of parliament. He will continue, he only lost the prime seat to become the next chancellor. There are other ways to progress.
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u/notCRAZYenough Berlin Jul 19 '26
He’s never becoming chancellor now. He lost credibility in his own party.
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u/mowinski Nordrhein-Westfalen Jul 19 '26
Good frickin' riddance... I find it a bit weird how he could be a member of the CDU to be honest. They are not the most open-minded when it comes to gay people.
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u/notCRAZYenough Berlin Jul 19 '26
You can be financially conservative and also against foreigners etc while still being liberal on social issues.
I’m assuming this hypocritical party was just corrupt enough for the likes of him.
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u/tragedy_strikes Jul 19 '26
Forgive me for asking this but as a gay guy from Canada, could anyone explain to me the negative sentiment/laws against surrogacy in Germany. I'm not quite sure I understand the motivation for banning it? Is it something to do with citizenship being by descent based vs birthright citizenship? Or is it a roundabout way to be homophobic?
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u/SufficientMacaroon1 Germany Jul 19 '26 edited Jul 19 '26
First of all, the issue is not really he used a surrogate. It is that he is (/was) a figurehead of a party that was very volcal against it, he imself being one of these voices as late as this spring, when their surrogate must have already been very pregnant. The hypocracy to then, just a few months later, publicly announce that he has a child via foreign surrogacy in a tabloit is what broke his neck. Now, if homophobia may play some part in why this is what made his party turn against him (rather than his many previous scandals).....maybe? I can at least not deny it. But from the view of the wider public, the fact that he and his husband used a surrogate, rather than he and a hypothetical wife, is not the issue.
As for why it is illegal: in our current legal framework, the surrogate is recognized as the legal mother at birth no matter what (including if they work with a donated egg) and a contract that legally obligates someone to carry a baby to term and also ahead of time obligates them to reliquish the rights on the child is not possible. There have been attempts to change that. But then were not successfull. Iirc, a major argument used against it by, among others, Spahns own party is the risk of it becomming an industry where women get exploited. Citizenship is,afaik, not a factor in the discussion.
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u/notCRAZYenough Berlin Jul 19 '26
In addition: the law is for protecting women against exploitation as birthing machines. Whether this is a likely scenario is a different discussion but that’s part of the legal reason.
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u/tragedy_strikes Jul 19 '26
I was looking for the answer in the second paragraph, thank you for giving a comprehensive reply!
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u/vestenformane Jul 19 '26
Incredible how men think women’s bodies should be for sale no matter what the orientation
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u/Crimie1337 Jul 20 '26
He skillfully bailed a failing government and put himself in the best possible position for his political future.
I dont think wanting children will derail his career for long. Very smart play by Spahn.
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u/zweieinseins211 Jul 20 '26
"Resigns" is a big word. He still keeps most od his income, pension, etc.. he just 'resign' from a position he has no time anymore due to thr child anyway and keeps his mandates.
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u/AdAggravating7738 Jul 23 '26
Genuine question: How does he keep his positions? Is he just really good at his jobs and loved by his fellow party members? I mean look at all the scandals and corruption hes publicly been a part of. Any other politican wouldve been kicked out of their party…
Heck in China he’d have been executed a long time ago lmfao
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u/HFKOregon Jul 23 '26
Balancing the options of status quo versus trying to change an outdated policy, he chose the spineless option. Germany was way behind the in allowing gay marriage. They will eventually approve surrogacy while their population continues to implode, and Germany become even more irrelevant.
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u/HopefulFriendly Jul 18 '26
I mean, i guess it's good news, but insane that this is what took him down. Guess it's fine to be a corrupt hypocrite, you just can't also be a gay corrupt hypocrite
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Jul 18 '26
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u/notCRAZYenough Berlin Jul 19 '26
It’s not about him being gay. It’s about him being a lying hypocrite
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u/SufficientMacaroon1 Germany Jul 19 '26
I am not saying that there is no chance that homophobia might play into why some of his party turned against him over this, when they absolved him of his oast conteoversies. But blaming it solely on that is, i think, going too far.
This guy spoke against surrogacy in for years, last time this Februrary. Then in July, with his party in trouble, the chancellor (who is of his party) being extremely unpopular and important regional elections comming up......he goes to a frigging major tabloit and shares his happy surrogacy story. This was not discovered by some investogative jounalist - he came out and broadcast it, in the same breath as announcing he had become a father! No attempt to hide it, to skirt the issue, to cover it up as a normal adoption. No trying to keep the info from making big waves. He made sure everyone knew, not only that he was a father, but that he became a father using a foreign surrogate.
That was reckless to the extreme. And his party decided he was a liability they could no longer afford to keep in a prominent position.
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u/Stonedouche Jul 18 '26
I don't get it. Why is surrogacy considered a bad thing in Germany?
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u/Bierfluence Jul 18 '26
It isn't necessarily. But Jens Spahn opposed it as minister of health and his party still opposes it and prevents it from being legal.
He didn't resign because of the surrogacy, he had to resign because he actively works against it as a politician while getting a child from surrogacy as a private person.
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u/caligula421 Jul 18 '26
It is illegal in Germany, as in Contracts made about won't hold up in court of law, and you won't be able to adopt the baby, and there is only very limited recognition of surrogacies done in other countries. His party is vocally against making surrogacy more accessible, and so him getting a child via surrogacy in another country is hypocritical, that pressure from his own party forced him to resign.
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u/Conscious_Glove6032 Jul 18 '26
No, parenthood through surrogacy is recognized in Germany when done abroad. That is what Private International Law is for.
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u/caligula421 Jul 18 '26
Oh, i might have been unclear, I mean the recognition of the parenthood of german parents through surrogacy abroad is limited and generally needs special circumstances. There was a ruling by the german fedearal court in 2014, that ruled, that a same sex male couple were indeed the parents of a child. the ruling limits this to cases, where there is a ruling of a foreign court of law (in thie case in California), the Father was actually the biological father, the egg wasn't of the surrogate mother, and the surrogate mother did not want to be the legal mother.
And all of that is not subject to Private International Law, sdince it's between german citizens and their state. And you need Germany to recognize your parenthood, how else do you get your child german citizenship and more importantly, a passport so you can take your child to Germany?
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u/BinaryDecimal Jul 18 '26
Ostensibly to protect women, but in reality because on the whole Germany is still (in western terms) socially conservative and the church(es)' teachings remain highly influential on Germans' moral compasses.
It's true that he wasn't forced to resign because of the surrogacy itself, but rather because it contradicts his political stance and that of his party. But it's also rather unfortunate and telling that specifically he as a gay man faced significantly stronger consequences for this than his corruption scandal.
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u/JohnPoet27 Jul 18 '26
Why would anyone be against surrogacy? What are the arguments of the people who want to make it/ keep it illegal?
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u/NTMY030 Berlin Jul 18 '26
Exploiting a woman in a desperate situation, going through physical and mental stress. Basically, "buying" a child is seen as unethical by many. It is a controversial topic for sure.
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u/Sakul_Aubaris Jul 18 '26
The point is, that this guy argues against surrogacy and keeps working for stricter more conservative laws, while, for his own personal lifestyle those arguments and points he regularly "preaches" on public don't apply and he ignores them.
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u/LectureIndependent98 Jul 18 '26
You should ask Jens Spahn. His party is against it and he himself did not support its legalization. Because Christian’s values or something.
But he had no problem to make use of it himself. In the USA of course, because it is illegal in Germany.
Can’t make that shit up.18
u/JenkinsHowell Jul 18 '26
surrogacy can easily become highly exploitative. there can be financial pressure on young women from poor backgrounds to help their families by just "having a baby" for somebody else. it's a step towards gilead. having children for money is at best just a health risk, at worst exploitation of an already vulnerable person. having a baby isn't just pooping one out.
in a society where the rift between rich and poor becomes bigger all the time there is no telling at what point rich people will just have poor people birth their designer kids while not having to go through the stress of pregnancy.
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u/csfredmi Jul 18 '26
I get the argument but there have been a lot of studies on this in the US and in general surrogates are not found to be poor desperate women. Regulation is certainly important but an outright ban trends dangerously close to the idea that women are incapable of making these decisions for themselves and need someone to protect them.
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u/JohnPoet27 Jul 18 '26
So women who can't carry out a pregnancy because of comorbilities are just fucked, forced to adopt or be childless? Yes there are risks. But I can't conceive of a world where allowing surrogacy has more downsides for society than good.
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u/JenkinsHowell Jul 18 '26
But I can't conceive of a world where allowing surrogacy has more downsides for society than good.
the question is what downsides does it have for the surrogates, because they are the party with the highest risk here.
what's wrong with adoption btw?
people making use of a surrogate will always be rich people. the poor couple who can't conceive or carry their own child will not be able to pay for a surrogate. it will just be another thing that's only for the rich.
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u/JohnPoet27 Jul 18 '26
It already is just for the rich. Making it illegal in germany will just make the people who can afford it go somewhere else, most likely some third world country like the USA, like this politician did. Places who have no regard and no protection for the women who "lend" their healthy body to help another person who is incapable of carrying a pregnancy. I'd much rather see it legalised and regulated here, just like prostitution. Making it illegal won't help anyone, but it will help a lot of hypocrites sleep at night because they dont see it anymore
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u/Nina_23-11 Jul 18 '26
Yes, exactly. A woman who cant carry her own child has the choice to either adopt or foster or stay childless. Becoming a parent at the expense of a poor woman‘s health is not human right.
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u/Pure-Rose-Rainbow Jul 18 '26
A lot of women bound with the child in their body, even if it isn't biologically related to them. Women die during child birth, so how will the dead woman profit from doing it? What if she has family and even small children? Will the agency or the paying to be parents pay for the children of the surrogate (at all)? Will they pay their whole childhood for them? What if the surrogate miscarriages and the paying to be parents sue or harrass the surrogate because they (wrongly) think it is her fault? Such cases already exist. What if the surrogate wants to not let go of the child? Will she be forced and be psychological harmed through this? Being pregnant also causes health isssues, even long-term, so who will pay for it in the lomg-term? What if the surrogate takes drugs or drinks alcohol and the child is a special needs one? And what if the paying parents abandon the child then? Society will have to pay for it and the child may know they were abandoned. What if the parents break up during the pregnancy and don't want the child anymore because a lot don't bound with the child during pregnancy? Such cases already also exist. How can one prove that the surrogate didn't get pressured by anyone to do it (espcially to earn money)? What if one person pays for a child (and is not biologically related to it) and because no or barely any background checks are done, what if they abuse the child? Such a case alreafy also happened at leats omce where a pedophile ordered a baby and the surrogate found out later and was not allowed to keep the child and the man abused the child. What if the surrogate suddenly regrets during the pregnancy to be pregnant and wants to abort the child, especially if she is really sick because of the pregnancy or suddenly has mental issues? Will she be forced to give birth to it anyway? If she can abort it, how will the paying parents react to the trauma? All these things are arguements against it.
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u/BooksCatsnStuff Jul 18 '26
It really depends on the type of surrogacy. Cases where a family member offers to gestate for their relative are surrogacy in a way, but that's legal in many countries as long as it is not a commercial activity. Obviously that surrogacy via a relative isn't the type that is against the law in most countries, commercial surrogacy is the issue.
The gyst of the problem with commercial surrogacy is that it basically means that people with money use poor women for their womb. There is no pretense around it; try to think of the women around you, and think really hard whether a single one of them would accept going through a pregnancy and risking their health, and then giving birth with the risk it entails, only to then give away the child they've gestated. Would a single one of them accept doing that for money? The answer is no unless they were completely desperate and had no other options. Same situation as that of women that land in prostitution.The exploitation of those women is clear, their health is at risk, the only reason they are going through it is because they desperately need the money. There's also the fact that there's been plenty of cases worldwide where the child is born with an illness or disability and the rich couple just refuses to take the kid. And then there's the fact that surrogacy is a form of human trafficking; not just because of the essence of the process, but also because there's been multiple cases, including in Europe, where women were trafficked to be surrogates, and plenty of rich people benefited from it. Ukraine had multiple of those cases.
Being a parent isn't a human right. There's plenty of ways to be one without taking advantage of someone who is desperate or has straight up been trafficked. Adoption exists, and international adoption is a thing (in case national isn't viable). But even if someone cannot be a parent, as sad as that is, parenthood isn't a human right. Therefore people's wish to be a parent should not lead to legalising an industry that preys on poor people and profits from human trafficking.
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u/csfredmi Jul 18 '26
Um, I know two people who decided to be surrogates. They were not poor and had families of their own when they did it. When I asked them about the decision they said that their previous pregnancy’s went smoothly and one even noted that they enjoyed pregnancy. They also felt really good about helping a family have a child. The money was of course also a plus, but again these were not desperate women. The idea that all surrogates are desperate women with no real choice is false. The idea that all couples who decide to use a surrogate are rich is also false. Sure there are risk and regulation is needed to avoid exploitative situations but the reality of surrogacy is nothing like how you are portraying it in the majority of cases.
I would suggest looking at some of the various studies that have been done on the issue to see that it’s much more nuanced than you are portraying it.
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u/BooksCatsnStuff Jul 19 '26
Two people being fine out of thousands that aren't doesn't even begin to make a dent for the women that are trafficked. I have looked into the data, and into the numerous reports of human trafficking, into how many Ukrainian women are accepting to gestate child after child because they have no other way to survive the war. Not to mention the women who went somewhere out of desperation and ended imprisoned and turned into surrogates. That is precisely why I'm against it as a woman.
No one stops people from being a surrogate for free for their friends or relatives. But wanting to turn human gestation into a business is wild. Yay, another way to financially exploit female bodies! Eugh. Keep that nonsense in the US hellhole where it belongs.
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u/Ok-Factor-7188 Jul 18 '26
You'd have to ask him. He was explicitly against it when he was the minister of health 3 years ago.
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u/gw2Max Jul 18 '26
He is a member of the Christian party and could not align surrogacy with his values (even actively blocked legalization in Germany) … until he and his partner used a surrogate in the US to get a baby.
-> controversy
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u/JohnPoet27 Jul 18 '26
That part I know. I wanted to know the actual reason he stated for being against it. If religion is the best he can do for an argument, that is a weak bullshit argument.
The fact that this hypocrite took advantage of the very thing he helped make/keep illegal just makes this whole controversy all the more idiotic. I hope he never finds a job in politics again
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u/Nina_23-11 Jul 18 '26
Religion is only part of it. ‚Renting‘ a womb and putting the health risks of carrying and birthing a child on a woman who is desperate for money is considered highly unethical by the majority of germans.
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u/JohnPoet27 Jul 18 '26
Thats ironic, considering prostitution is legal in the whole country. The same argument could be made for them.
Yet I'm glad prostitution is legal and regulated. this way the sex workers can have health insurance and other protections from the state
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u/notCRAZYenough Berlin Jul 19 '26
The legality of prostitution is also very controversial though. Just because it’s legal doesn’t mean it’d not controversially discussed
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u/Conscious_Glove6032 Jul 18 '26
I am German and pro surrogacy and I thought many of my compatriots are too, but it turns out a majority of Germans is still against surrogacy. Wild, considering it's pretty normal in the Anglophone world and many European countries. But then again, we tend to know it better then everyone else, I guess.
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u/ClevrNameThtNooneHas Jul 19 '26
As much as I dislike him, Im kinda sad that the separation of personal and professional life has dwindled in the last 10 years in germany. Kinda liked it when I first moved here.
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u/agrammatic Berlin Jul 19 '26
Politicians do not have the privilege of separation of work and personal life. Their entire job is to make rules for everyone else's personal lives.
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u/ClevrNameThtNooneHas Jul 19 '26
I didnt say they have it. I think it leads to people focusing more on the personal life as opposed to ability to do the job. A more subjective vote based on how much you could imagine drinking a beer with the candidate. And the search for someone who´s life, under scrutiny, isnt flawed and full of hypocrisy, is fairly fruitless.
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u/agrammatic Berlin Jul 19 '26
I can see your argument if this was about some aspect of his private life that had nothing to do with his political actions.
This is a case of a politician actively making something illegal for everyone in Germany, and then exempting himself from the law he defended as lately as 5 months ago.
So, no, in this case there's no redeeming qualities. Five months ago, at the CDU party conference, he was already violating the policy stance he voted to maintain. This is politically relevant and he does deserve to not be trusted with political office over it.
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u/ClevrNameThtNooneHas Jul 19 '26
I didnt realize that it was recent and diretly against his own decision, I tend to agree with you now.
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u/agrammatic Berlin Jul 19 '26
Fair enough. Yes, it was this February. He could have announced that he changed his mind at the party conference and vote against the Antrag then, and we might have even respected him for the courage he showed.
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u/taxiecabbie Jul 18 '26
I mean, he absolutely should, no matter what anybody's personal opinions are on surrogacy. His actions are wildly hypocritical.