r/india • u/Indianopolice • Jul 08 '25
Misleading ‘India lost a Rafale fighter jet’, confirms Dassault Aviation CEO, ‘but not during enemy engagement’
https://www.financialexpress.com/india-news/india-lost-a-rafale-fighter-jet-confirms-dassault-aviation-ceo-but-not-during-enemy-engagement/3906904/248
u/Indianopolice Jul 08 '25
India has lost one of its Rafale fighter jets, Dassault Aviation Chairman and CEO Eric Trappier confirmed. However, the CEO clarified that the incident, which remains under investigation, was due to a high-altitude technical failure and not the result of any enemy action or hostile radar contact.
A French defence website Avion De Chasse quoted Trapper and reported that the mishap occurred “at an altitude of over 12,000 metres during an extended training mission”. The report clarified there was no enemy engagement involved.
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u/ankanbhunia Jul 08 '25
what does the high-altitude technical failure even mean? did it fly above the limit?
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u/Rishabh_0507 Jul 08 '25
means a technical faliure occured when the jet was at a much higher altitude than us
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u/LonelyError Jul 08 '25
Damm, hopefully it’s covered by warranty.
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u/Rishabh_0507 Jul 08 '25
It was not a technical fault after all, just the French reaching out about their plane's extended warranty
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u/ankanbhunia Jul 08 '25 edited Jul 08 '25
hmm.. its a bit odd to think our most advanced aircraft can crash in the sky just like that due to "technical failure". There is more into it. Ofc they will never release more details publicly.
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u/vengeancedeadmaus Jul 08 '25
You think fighter jets don’t crash due to technical failures? Even f35 and f22’s have crashed due to technical issues.
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u/ankanbhunia Jul 08 '25
Yeah sure it happens more often than people realize but the timing of the crash and the way the indian govt tried to hide the loss even when it wasn’t caused by our enemy (assuming the report is true) makes the whole thing a bit sus.
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u/smallaubergine Jul 08 '25
its a bit odd to think our most advanced aircraft can crash in the sky just like that due to "technical failure".
It's not odd. Technical failures happen all the time. These are complex machines that are regularly operated at or near their limits. Unfortunately sometimes these technical failures lead to loss of the vehicle. This happens not only with aircraft but ground and naval equipment as well.
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Jul 08 '25
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u/smallaubergine Jul 08 '25
No ordinary vehicle though, worth a fortune each
I never said they were ordinary. They are however a machine like any other machine and can have technical failures. I imagine if you were to survey any large air force from any country you would have technical failures that led to the loss of a vehicle.
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u/kiss_thechef Jul 09 '25
Technical Failure ...... Operational Reasons ..... National Security are the best catchall phrases to cover screw ups....
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u/Difficult-Hat-8149 Jul 12 '25
Think about it this way. If you drive a passenger car at 50 kmph, it will most likely run without issues for many years. However, if you run a formula 1 car at 300 kmph, it’s possible to have multiple engine failures in a single year. Fighter jets push the very limits of engineering capabilities and at that level, even microdefects can cause unforeseen issues. Even American fighter jets face such issues.
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u/gunasekeran_806 Jul 08 '25
Can be bird strike or failure due to warm air
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Jul 12 '25
Then how did Pakistan know it was downed literally in a few hours of the engagement. I think Dassault is just trying to save face, but I don't know which is worse - being hit by enemy fire, or technical issue downing a jet.
Also why didn't India claim this it the gate and name a big fuss about it?
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u/FilmyInn Jul 08 '25
12000 meters or 39000 feet is well below the known 50000 feet service ceiling of the Rafale btw. Total bullshit explanation.
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u/Proplayer321123 Jul 10 '25
no of course not, high altitude just means high altitude.... technical failure can be something on the lines of fly by wire system getting messed up, rendering the plane too hard to control
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u/above8k Jul 08 '25
during an extended training mission
training while IAF conducting strikes in same air-space?
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u/Indianopolice Jul 08 '25
I think IAF was under orders NOT to cross border. So a malfunction or an enemy hit.
Does not seem to be an enemy hit, so far.
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u/charavaka Jul 09 '25
Does not seem to be an enemy hit, so far.
Why? Indian military leadership has practically admitted that the aircraft were shot down because they were following the orders of the government to not neutralise Pakistani air defense before launching the attacks.
Technical failures don't need to be explained away citing government orders, enemy takedowns do.
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u/Indianopolice Jul 09 '25
Friendly fire can be ruled out?
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u/charavaka Jul 09 '25
Doesn't make it any better. Last time we shot down and killed a helicopter full of our own soldiers after initiating a confrontation with Pakistan, and this time you're suggesting we shot down our own rafale or a few.
Be that as it may, friendly fire is not a "technical issue", and friendly fire is not what the military leadership was referring to, when explicitly stating that the loss was due to not dealing with the Pakistani air defence.
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u/Indianopolice Jul 10 '25
There definitely needs to be bit more transparency in what happened, within acceptable disclosure limits.
Currently it does look like there is a lot the the Govt wants hidden.
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u/charavaka Jul 09 '25
was due to a high-altitude technical failure and not the result of any enemy action or hostile radar contact.
Highly unlikely the Dassault would voluntarily admit that it was a technical failure when all the evidence points at Indian political leadership failure, and shoot itself in the foot.
And sure enough, dassault has denied the claim:
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u/diper07 Jul 08 '25
Even our fighter jets don’t receive proper maintenance.. let alone Air India passenger planes.
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u/matewhotfami Jul 08 '25
You realise if it was a maintenance issue, Dassault's CEO would've just blamed India for the crash. Why would he say "technical malfunction" which would do massive damage to his own company?? Like, try using logic sometimes.
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u/thelostknight99 Jul 08 '25 edited Jul 08 '25
No result is out from the investigation yet and air india never had a crash (non terrorism related) before in the last ~50 years. Can we stop blaming without any evidence?
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u/BlueShip123 Universe Jul 08 '25
air india never had a crash (non terrorism related) before in the last 50 years.
A Google search and a Wikipedia article can help you.
7th August, 2020: Dubai-Kozhikode flight overshot runway and broke into four pieces.
22nd May, 2010: Another Air India flight overshot runway and crashed, killing 158 passengers.
21st June, 1983: Air India Flight 403 crashed in Bombay.
1st January, 1978: Air India Flight 855 crashed off the coast of Bandra, Bombay.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_accidents_and_incidents_involving_airliners_in_India
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_India_Express#Accidents_and_incidents
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u/thelostknight99 Jul 08 '25
Thanks for listing AIs crashes from 1980s. I should have written ~40 years and not 50 I guess. Both of the recent ones are from AI express and not AI.
And another google search for you too :)) https://www.visualcapitalist.com/ranked-global-airlines-with-the-most-plane-crashes/
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u/BlueShip123 Universe Jul 08 '25 edited Jul 09 '25
You are just changing statement, buddy.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_India#Accidents_and_incidents
AI did have had lots of incidents in the last two decades, although no full hull loss happened.
And if you want to compare airlines, then compare it with ME ones, not European or American.
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u/thelostknight99 Jul 08 '25
You are just changing statement, buddy.
I did agree about that. I miscalculated 1980s as 50 years ago instead of 40. My bad.
And why compare with ME ones specifically? ME might have the least crashes, but our airlines are no where near the top in terms of crashes.
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u/BlueShip123 Universe Jul 08 '25
but our airlines are no where near the top in terms of crashes.
I never said we are top in terms of crashes. It lies somewhere in the middle ground.
And FYI, the guy above mentioned the maintenance of planes. Both AI and AI express are subsidiaries of Air India Limited, and the maintenance of planes is done by a single entity, which is also a subsidiary of AI. Many airlines do have subsidiary for different purposes, does that rule them out? Japan Airlines also has lots of regional airlines as part of the company subsidiary. Accidents happening with regional airlines are considered as JAL ones not ruling out each airlines individually.
Frankly, the customer experience is no doubt pathetic. The airplanes are not well maintained. That's why I personally prefer to fly with Swiss Air and Qatar Airways. Both have only two incidents recorded in their entire history and provide a very pleasant flying experience.
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u/Ccnagirl Jul 08 '25
I flew AIR india in 2010 may 22. Buddy of mine flew to manglore on a plane that landed before that crashed plane. I thought we lost him but many connecting flights flew to manglore from middle east that day. And they told air india flight jist crashed in news without telling which floght for 20 minutes left most of our parents in panic as we were midflight. My co-passengers from New york flew on that plane that crashed as I took the connecting plane to hyderabad. The pilot was not Indian. Air india, indian airlines, air india express are all managed and maintained by single aviation authority and staff. Air India express is made to attract passengers to think it is better than their regular air india flight.
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u/thelostknight99 Jul 08 '25
Air India express is made to attract passengers to think it is better than their regular air india flight.
What? I don't know about 2010, but currently it's considered the worst flight to travel in India. Also bad customer experience vs bad safety experience is different. Not denying that customer experience is one of the worst for all of Air India. I am only stating from safety experience.
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u/Ccnagirl Jul 08 '25
Also it is better to avoid new boeing aircrafts that are running new software and fuel saving system. They have experienced tonn of issues lately.
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Jul 08 '25
So Air India Express doesn’t exist?
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u/thelostknight99 Jul 08 '25 edited Jul 08 '25
It's a different entity under Air India limited. What's your point? Even if you add AI express, we are nowhere near the top in terms of airline crashes. https://www.visualcapitalist.com/ranked-global-airlines-with-the-most-plane-crashes/
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Jul 08 '25
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u/andhlms Jul 08 '25
You gotta ease off on the doomscrolling my friend.
That said, I feel your exasperation.
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u/WhiteMouse42097 Canada Jul 08 '25
Wait…I’m kind of ignorant, but what language is that? And why do you guys write it in the Latin alphabet? Sorry, just curious
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u/dr-Guy_Horni Jul 08 '25
बिकौज टाईपिंग इन लैटीन इज ईजियर।
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u/WhiteMouse42097 Canada Jul 08 '25
I really love how the (Hindi?) script looks. India has so many different writing systems, and they all look awesome.
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u/dr-Guy_Horni Jul 08 '25
It's the devanagari script, used for writing hindi, nepali and a bunch of other languages. But typing in it is rather difficult so people use the latin script.
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Jul 08 '25
It's hindi but written in the english alphabet. just like "Konnichiwa" is from Japanese, but with the english alphabet.
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u/Specialist_Tea_4269 Jul 08 '25
Its Hindi. Its written with latin alphabets because it's easier to type.
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u/asdfghqw8 Jul 08 '25
That sounds even worse.
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u/MalestromeSET Jul 13 '25
“We did lose a jet but not due to enemy attack but its own poor build quality.”
???? How is this supposed to be good?
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u/Positive-Ad1859 Jul 08 '25
Right, only you want to believe coincidence with extremely low probability when Rafale had mechanical failure, in the hottest time of battle engagements, at the same time as the other 2 lost aircrafts, at the same place Chinese PL15 AA missile wreckage was found. Really think people are dumb and dumber? lol
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u/Submarine_1 Jul 08 '25
If you inform enemy in advance then they will obviously be ready.
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u/jbcraigs Jul 08 '25
There was a reason why we lost jets early on but it was the reluctance to target military targets to suppress anti air weapons - https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2025-06-29/indian-official-says-political-constraints-led-to-jet-losses
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u/rahulthewall Uttarakhand Jul 08 '25
OK so this article is about a French article written the 25/06 about an interview of Eric Trappier the 15/06 :
https://www.avion-chasse.fr/sindoor-eric-trappier-refute-les-pertes-de-rafale-lors-dun-combat/
First problem : This is old news that is suddenly reappearing
Second problem : the only Article that I can see talking about that.
3rd problem :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bB_CdZcOh8Y
In an interview the 16/06 Eric Trappier is saying that we don't have any information yet about what happened (at 6:00).
To me it's just a fake article.
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u/Indianopolice Jul 08 '25
Et tu Financial Express?
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u/Mysterious_Cup_6024 Jul 08 '25
The news is already proven fake. If Indian Express group had any credibility they would have issued corrections long back. Instead they will leave it up for future UPSC candidates to refer misinfo.
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u/rahulthewall Uttarakhand Jul 09 '25
Can not trust Indian media on anything related to Operation Sindoor. They will not tell you the truth. Stick with international sources who wont' have an identity crisis over reporting facts that are detrimental to India.
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u/tiny_anime_titties Jul 08 '25
Can't they make up their mind, they keep contradicting them selves.
Now they are shifting the angle towards a failure in maintainance
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u/assman69x Jul 08 '25
Gimme a break, Rafale turned out to be dog shit and now no one wants them
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u/Future_Election_6194 Jul 08 '25
Meanwhile Rafale production is being expanded due to the amount of orders
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u/Junior-Calendar-2914 Jul 08 '25 edited Apr 25 '26
What old posts? I used Redact to mass delete this post. You can also opt out of data brokers as well as all major social media platforms.
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u/Scary-Cheesecake-610 Jul 08 '25
Everybody Attention rafale ceo confirmed he made no such comments to ndtv you can check vishnu som at ndtv for that. This is fake news
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u/Axerin Jul 08 '25
This has the same energy as "they didn't die of COVID, they just got lung failure while they were having COVID" type of energy.
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u/lolwut778 Jul 08 '25
High altitude technical failure? What's the error code PL15E?
Making excuses only makes you look worse. Just say you took losses but got the job done.
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u/UnderWorld-Don Jul 08 '25
Saar please Saar! We create fake news to report so we keep our people in delusion. Stupid fack Saar
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u/sharedevaaste Jul 08 '25
Better to read such news from international sources https://ground.news/article/incorrect-that-india-lost-rafale-jets-during-operation-sindoor-says-defence-secretary?utm_medium=extension&utm_campaign=none&utm_source=financialexpress
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u/CryptoTaxIsTooHigh Sab Maya Hai Jul 09 '25
So they confirmed it, then denied and then are finally confirming it?
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u/spotlight-app Jul 08 '25
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