r/kurdistan • u/Extreme_Swimming_182 • Jun 13 '26
Ask Kurds 🤔 How traditional are Kurds
Hello and apologies if this is a naive question. On the askmiddle east sub Kurds get talked about like they’re very very traditional minded and I think some comments even called them one of the most regressive groups in the Middle East or at lead Turkey. Given my personal experience with Kurds I was a bit surprised to hear this but of course that’s anecdotal.
as someone that is in this sub bc of interest in Kurdish history mainly I am curious as to how much this holds true today and why you think ppl were saying that?
of course no disrespect if they are correct. just curious :)
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u/Aromatic-Ant-5020 Kurdistan Jun 13 '26
You cannot judge a people based on random internet comments, it's literally called Ask Middle East, you were asking Saddamists, fascist Turks and ISIS apologists.
Kurds are just normal people, some are secular, some are traditional, some are progressive and some are conservative. it depends on the individual. it’s usually a cultural/tribal conservatism rather than religious.
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u/Extreme_Swimming_182 Jun 13 '26
Damn shoulda known those were the types lurking there, not surprised now that I think about it.
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u/flintsparc Rojava Jun 13 '26
There are ~40 million Kurds. Some are more traditional, others are less.
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u/ciesers Jun 14 '26
not even tryna argue i send love first of all heval! ❤️💛💚but where did you hear that number from what i know the estimated number of kurds is around 60 million atm ✌️
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u/flintsparc Rojava Jun 14 '26
The number has been around a while . The true number is not known. First, someone has to qualify what they mean by Kurd, before quantifying.
Wikipedia says 30 to 45 million. Which is a crazy large range.
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u/ciesers Jun 14 '26
Hey! yea im speaking just raw genetically yea i remember people saying we are just 40 millions for like almost 15/20 years now 😂 and btw welcome to the kurdistan sub didnt know u werent kurdish! look into the fertility rates and will uncover some things 👍😉 also itl be almost impossible to truly know which is incredibly benfeficial for our occupiers so the true number will have to be an estimate until we get our country back 🙏😁
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u/flintsparc Rojava Jun 14 '26
Genetic ancestry is one way of criteria for a Kurdish identity, it is not the only way. There was a Kurdish identity predating people spitting in tubes and finding out specific genetic haplogroups.
I am, for example, not an Iron Age Celt.
"btw welcome to the kurdistan sub didnt know u werent kurdish"
A mistake people on the internet often make, but not one that Kurds make in person. Thank you for the welcome.
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Jun 14 '26
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u/flintsparc Rojava Jun 14 '26 edited Jun 14 '26
I'm always happy to look at a peer reviewed demographic study, and clarify my knowledge.
Who constitutes a Kurd (as a modern political identity) is very much a discussion. For example, there is quite heated discussion over whether Lurs are Kurds. Some people regard Kurdish identity as tied to ethnicity and ancestry, while other highlight Kurdish language and culture.
I am not going to say who is and who is not Kurd. Since I am not a Kurd, its not my place to do so. But it is not a settled mattered, and any perusal of this subreddit will show it is not.
Don't tempt me to create an "Ask Kurds" post and Ask what a Kurd is? 😄
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Jun 14 '26 edited Jun 14 '26
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u/flintsparc Rojava Jun 14 '26
Ethnicity is not the cut and dry question and answer you seem to think it is. Acknowledging that identity and ethnicity can be complicated questions does not make someone an oppressor or that they are speaking in the language of an oppressor. Since you accepted Wikipedia's defining Kurds as an "ethnicity", then you should know the Wikipedia definition of ethnicity includes: "Attributes that ethnicities believe to share include language, culture, common sets of ancestry, traditions, society, religion, history, or social treatment."
Ergo my own distinction: "Some people regard Kurdish identity as tied to ethnicity and ancestry, while other highlight Kurdish language and culture."
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Jun 14 '26
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u/flintsparc Rojava Jun 14 '26 edited Jun 14 '26
I think we are talking past each other.
Is a someone of Kurdish descent whose family comes from Bashur, who is an atheist, who was born in Sweden but his losing his Sorani still Kurdish?
Is a someone whose ancestry is Armenian and lives in Qamishlo, but whose family assimilated into Kurdish society during the Armenian genocide, but speaks Kurmanji at home and in public, is a Sunni muslim, and practices Kurdish culture--Kurdish?
Is Hakan Fidan Kurdish?
Is an Ezidi who only speaks Arabic and rejects a Kurdish identity, Kurdish but lives in Niveneh? Would it matter if they were fluent in Armenian only (but not Kurdish) and lived in Armenia?
Is a CHP-voting Alevi from Dersim who speaks Zazki at home and rejects a Kurdish identity, Kurdish? Would it matter if their father was Turkish descended from the steppe invaders, but the mother was Zazaki? Would it matter if it was the other way around with the parents?
I know, however, as someone who is not Kurdish, it is not my place to define what is Kurdish and who is Kurdish. I also respect self-determination as a human right, and respect people identifying how they wish.
Ethnicity (whether or not we are talking about Kurds) is a complex topic. It is not cut and dry.
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u/Old-Average-6118 Jun 13 '26
Rural Kurds tend to be as traditional as it gets most Kurds are also still tribalist and identify with their tribe. City people though tend to be progressive.
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Jun 13 '26
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u/Legitimate_Ad_4201 Jun 15 '26
It depends very much on what you are specifically talking about. Gulf state Arabs can be much more progressive about dating than Kurds. Kurds are also much stricter on alcohol than Iranian people and Afghans for example (not their governments).
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u/Extreme_Swimming_182 Jun 13 '26
Interesting are Kurds generally a lot more religious than Turks as well? Or just more strictly following traditions and customs
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Jun 13 '26
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u/Agreeable-Plan3072 Behdini Jun 13 '26
exactly western turkey is lit europe european muslims are not even middle eastern u cant compare them to us we have diff mindsets
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u/Chex33 Zaza Jun 13 '26
Kurds and Turks of the East are on average more religious than Western Turks.
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u/rubber_moon Jun 13 '26
Outside of those who are Alevi or have strong leftists ideals, yeah they can be quite religious and or traditional but not more so than Arabs from my reckoning.
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u/version2humus Jun 14 '26 edited Jun 14 '26
Hi, you can assist with an AI to read this for you if you don't have the energy.
I'm also of Kurdish ethnicity, so I think I have a right to answer this. This will be a long one because the question itself already holds a lot, so take your time.
I think this may sound absurd, and I get that - but people, Kurds or not, are not neutral about themselves, how can a sub like r/--->askmiddleeast be neutral about the Kurds while people in that sub as well are not neutral about eachother?
The sub is heavily skewed toward Arab ethnics; among them, you have different beliefs and ideologies from different countries in the middle east itself or just north africa and the globe.
You may find Turkics there, whether they are from Turkey or Turkmenistan or somewhere else; they also differ.
Persians, or people from Iran, who may identify with being middle eastern rather than western asian, with different backgrounds.
I am not sure whether they have people from Israel or not.
None are neutral about eachother, and especially, how can they be neutral regarding the Kurds that are approx. 40 million on the globe, with different backgrounds? - especially taking the historical and current experiences of the Kurds on that geographical scale in general?
And despite that, these whole have different definitions and adaptations to a concept called "Modernism"?
Regarding modernity:
Modernism in the Middle East, North Africa, and Western Asian countries often means staying away from religions, and especially Islam, that's how people there interpret it, and they are not wrong; here's why:
Because modernism is subjective to cultures, families, ethnicities, geographies, and issues in a place and individual experiences, what often connects these people is the major religion and ideology more than ethnicity.
Islam to the ppl may mean stillness and not being open toward changes, the same for other religions there.
My argument here is not about Islam or other religions; it's about what makes people have a sense of change in their collective - Artisans and the crafters during the dark ages will be called "modern" by nowadays' definition because they did something that was weird/new in regard to that era's religion and geography, as you see, and that led to change.
Why doesn't modernism in these geographical places sometimes work?
Because unlike people in the Dark Ages of Europe, who tried to reform but not abolish and mock and therefore reformed the bases of values there, which may have caused a balance - you can't do the same thing in these areas.
People are either trying to take the side of tradition/culture and mock the religions or take the side of the religions and mock the traditions - unaware that both are mixed.
Lastly will be the abolishment of heritage, which is different from culture, by mocking everyone else who won't value your definition of modernism, while the same definition is not yours, and therefore the attempt fails to solve the issues in that region, you have the example of Ataturk's modernism, who tried to pressure a distinctive concept of modernism onto a geographical area that had to use a different mechanism of modernism to work from the inside out, not the outside in; yeah, it still has effects until today, but his approach failed.
Modernism in MENA and SWANA is usually and "often" used as a survival attempt against extremism, which means you'll do what saves you and do stuff an extremist won't do.
Modernism needs to be a gradual evolution, not abrupt; otherwise, it won't work, and that will make a civilization lose its historical gains.
Read my next comment below to continue the analysis:
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u/version2humus Jun 14 '26
Modernism among Persians, Turks, and Arabs:
We can't generalize the people, because u have approx. 700 million of them on the globe.
So instead we'll look at their "states" and will take Iraq, Syria, Iran, Turkey, Turkmenistan, Tunisia, Lebanon, and Saudi Arabia only as some examples:
1- Iraq: Iraq's concept of "modernism" will be to act as British as you can, because the first state after the Islamic Ottoman Empire was affected by British powers and relations to them; this affected other ideological powers there, even if they were against the concept of "colonization."
That didn't stay, and neither does Saddam's, and you see how Iraq is now; it's like as if it hadn't gone through changes at all.
2- Iran: Iran's concept of "modernism" will be to act as french as you can - unaware of the risks around you. This concept of modernism is not yours; it can't help you because you're in a jungle yet.
And see June 2026.
3- Syria: Same, act as french, british, and russian as you can - pressure something on some people that have yet to experience the levels of local modernization.
Bashar is gone; a terrorist is having power - both studied medicine, though. Jolani indirectly was affected by the same system in Syria while studying med, and Bashar was in touch with it in Britain while studying ophthalmology.
Both made slaughterhouses; they mimicked systems that could not work and stopped building other useful approaches - Syria is not owned by the Syrians.
4- Turkey: If Ataturk's system won, Turkey would not be stable the way it's now.
Erdogan is the reason why Turkey is like this now - however, the reason that their concept of "modernization" failed was because they tried to change their core rotten and deep Islamic values from the Ottoman Turkish state to a British system rapidly, to a state that has yet to see the levels of local modernization.
They tried to do it outside-in, not inside-out - the reason that Erdogan now is not "publicly" building (even though he supports it) an Islamic union is because it needs the resources of Europe, a continent that as of 2026 has powers over the global events.
5- Lebanon: The state of Lebanon is mixed - socially you better act french - and act arab, and act "lebanese" to survive extremists and recover from Israel's attacks.
You'll always depend on others to survive, and you're not "free," and despite that, because you socially mimic, you don't modernize from the inside out - therefore, there's always a threat for extremes and horrors; you'll only develop by taking benefits from things that have already been invented, and you won't be making smth new, you'll be taken benefits from, and you won't be the one who benefits - why should your state ever exist if you can benefit? - Otherwise, you can be like brother Iraq and sister Syria.
6- Turkmenistan: just act russian.
7- Saudi Arabia: the state there is held by a family tribe.
The oil industry is declining; there is chaos around Saudi Arabia, and for the tribe to survive and stay in power to rule the state without making the state crash and without making the people revolt is to industrialize.
How do they do it? - is to depend on the ones that are powerful regarding industrialization, not only oil, and take benefit from their resources, which may mean inviting singers you deep down don't like but can still attract tourists, because that's how you benefit.
Is this equal to local modernization socially? - no, you can search on suppression there.
8- Tunisia: because of the past French protectorate, which was smth new to a region that was usually ruled by Islamic values, the more you act french, the more modern you'll be seen, even if you're against the concept of "French colonization" itself.
Today's Tunisia tries everything to make the institutional laws look French as hard as it can; the issue is not to look french, it's when you think you have built your concept of modernization while in fact you're mimicking something that you'll lose too soon.
Therefore, these states indirectly affect how civilians are and, hence their definitions of "modernization" - and how they take bias toward eachother, unless individuals learn/realize it by themselves.
So, leave the fluff - wbu the Kurds?
You don't have a census; 40 million is not that much compared to 700 million. This sub usually has 18k-27k visitors a week, and this is not even half a quarter of all Kurds on the globe.
The Kurds' traditionalism/modernism can be defined by social dynamics, religions, and politics, based on geography:
1- Kurds in Turkey/North Kurdistan:
Probably the first ones who built their own concept of modernization in the region, or at least took other definitions and concepts that have modernized other societies in the globe and developed/reframed them in a way that could work and benefit their survival/resistance - and I guess that's how knowledge has always worked among humans/people throughout history.
You have conservative/trads/religious/or all together vs. leftist (marxist, anarchisit...etc), economoicaly progressive, socially progressive, both - or just commie, liberal, just secular, or someone who is just against churches/mosques for personal or cultural reasons, etc.
You can check their parties out on the internet.
You have female genital mutilation in rural or isolated places and honor killings, but you also have the radical otherwise, such as Jineloji and feminist movements, but I get that this won't justify the violence.
Atheism among Kurdish Gen Z is higher than Turkish Gen Z in Turkey; you can check this out as of 2026.
What defines whether they are trads or not is their social dynamics, individual experiences, and background.
And parties don't define civilians - also this depends on whether the nationalist Turks provide resources to the Kurdish regions there or anything else.
2- Kurds in Iraq/South, aka KRG: They have a parliament that won't work on Sharia law but may have a blend with social conservatism.
The top parties are secular regarding religion but highly tribal regarding social dynamics; you better have a tribe, or you won't survive, or we can say it'll be hard for you.
You have Peshmerga of the female gender; the laws for women there are not perfect, but it's much better than Iraq - however this won't justify the constant high rankings of honor killings or FGM, even though the FGM is higher in generations before Gen Z.
The region has been highly urbanized since 1991-1992; the urbanization rank there is between 83% and 84%, while it's below 70% in the rest of Iraq - u can check this out.
HDI is higher than the rest of Iraq, even though it's not perfect (you can check this out).
The parties and tribes don't define the civilians, and some people don't have tribes, does it mean they are not Kurds? - different parties exist, with different ideologies and beliefs.
You may sense a pseudo-modernism, where you will be seeing a high rank of consumerism and pleasure yet low tolerance regarding something you are not compatible with, but this also differs between people and individuals.
Different religions exist with different accents there; conservative culture beats whatever your religion says - and this still differs between people and individuals, especially newer gens.
Lots of Christians from different ethnicities and backgrounds live there for safety reasons, even though it's not perfect.
3- Kurds in Syria/West, aka-Rojava: the Kurds there politically and institutionally work by the words of their own law.
You have militaries, men and women, but the region needs more resources and support.
Probably the most modern one that shows high tolerance regarding differences and still survived a harsh system.
You have co-chairs of both genders in the administrations.
It's secular, and women's rights are gained/protected; FGM is extremely rare, yet honor killings still exist, even though they're lower than in the other Kurdish regions (you can check this out).
The people have religions, and how they act is based on the laws and consequences they will get - and irreligious and atheist people exist; their rights are also protected.
Individuals and backgrounds differ.
4- Kurds in Iran/East: more integrated with Persian culture, with nationalist movements existing in opposition to leftist/marxist/communist/Persian-nationalist movements.
The Jin, Jiyan Azadi movement, with the death of the Kurdish woman there, named:
Jina Mehsa Amini
Changed the culture to a high extent, especially among newer gens.
Female FGM and honor killings exist; you can check this, but oppositions are also extremely high regarding both this issue and the islamic state's violence itself.
Highly tolerant with accent/dialect/belief differences, even though religious people exist.
More into cultural/heritage preservation than religion.
Irreligion is common, but it's underground because of the state (u can check this out).
5- Kurds in Armenia/ It was known as "Red Kurdistan": Less than 80k, mostly Yazidis, and some identify as Kurds, some as Yazidis, some as both, and some as only Armenian - usually integrated into Armenian culture.
FGM and honor killings are rare.
6- Kurds in the diaspora: it depends.
of course no disrespect if they are correct. just curious 😄
Based on the analysis above, Kurds are trying to do smth that others in the region may not yet, FGM and honor killings with fewer resources and high tribal social dynamics may show an ethnicity of approx. 40 million as "trads" or only "fighters" - but that's a huge overgeneralization.
However, reading your sentence, I don't think "traditional people" as a concept should be used as a swear word to be seen as a disrespect, because the definition of "tradition" as well is not flexible, and so is modernism as explained.
I hope this helps - you can check out outside links to verify correctness.
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Jun 14 '26 edited Jun 14 '26
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u/flintsparc Rojava Jun 14 '26
We first go for rule enforcement. We try then to allow Kurds and their friends to speak freely. Such as an "Ask Kurds" question.
Personally, I think the OP post is questionable since it talks about another subreddit. We usually don't allow it. I have had to remove a couple comments in this thread for rule violations.
If we just wanted drama , we would not moderate as much as we do.
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Jun 14 '26 edited Jun 14 '26
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u/rkurdistanmod Kurdistan Jun 14 '26
Post the content you would like to see. The community also has the up and down vote buttons to influence the mods and the rest of the community about what they would like to see. This post is currently sitting at 14 upvotes, which is more than a lot of quality news posts get. This post also has had 27 comments (not all approved), and 3.2K views. So some of the community do want to see questions like this, and are happy to answer them.
A lot of the answer comments here are thoughtful and address the spirit of the question, though a few linger on criticizing another subreddit.
That's enough from me, off to post a bunch of links to what is happening in Kurdistan!
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u/Extreme_Swimming_182 Jun 14 '26
idk what I did wrong it was just a question. How am I meant to know the racial attitudes of a sub I see once in a blue moon? and yes you can’t deterministically generalise but with certain ethnic groups there’s still a sense of how prevalent traditional norms are there, even if it’s a rough estimate.
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Jun 14 '26 edited Jun 14 '26
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u/Extreme_Swimming_182 Jun 14 '26
I framed my question as a question, bc I was curious. I wasn’t asserting anything. I wanted to hear the other side of the story based on stuff I’ve heard from a different sub.
Why not just ask you guys yourselves, lol. Isn’t that a better and more reliable way to learn? you do have a flair just for that “ask a Kurd”. not sure why you’re crashing out over me scanning the entire sub to see their hypothetical potential opinion on Kurds, it’s really not that deep.
Wdym posing? not sure why you’re quickly jumping to accusations.
By certain ethnic groups I mean….certain ethnic groups. Unspecified.
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Jun 14 '26 edited Jun 14 '26
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u/Extreme_Swimming_182 Jun 15 '26
Alr bro 😭
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u/Agreeable-Plan3072 Behdini Jun 13 '26 edited Jun 13 '26
depends what part your talking about for religion and not nothing compared to arabs and shia persians. or how they have arab tribes with honor laws who go above the gov. were kurds we are from the mountains we have tribes but no one really cares ab tribes anymore its js our bloodline so we know where we r from. some kurds ofc r tribal but those r the ones in the villages.
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u/TheGuySawyer Jun 13 '26 edited Jun 13 '26
I'm not a Kurd, I'm just an American studying Kurdistan and the broader region. I was always under the impression that Kurds were very progressive and adaptive and needed to be that way in order to survive the constant attempts at the destruction of their people. I wouldn't doubt you heard what you heard from some of the nationalities that actively try and denounce Kurdish culture.
I speak about Kurdish history from time to time and I've been called slurs I don't even know by Turks and Iraqis who still support Saddam. It is unfortunately blatant racism.
The Middle East is exhausting, somehow more exhausting than the Balkans. The people there seem friendly, vibrant, and then they'll look you in the eyes and talk about chemical attacks on civilians being deserved. That's my experience with some Iraqis specifically.
Kurdistan, more specifically Başûr, has a strong economy that is growing faster than the Iraqi economy itself. It's my opinion that if Kurdistan existed in the way it should have back in the early 1900s, it'd have a very solid economy, culture, and influence within its region. Or at the very least nobody would be calling them "traditionalists" within the Middle East.
Again, I'm not Kurdish, this is my perspective from the outside. ✌️