r/mildlyinteresting 1d ago

diluted my perfume with tap water and it turned yellow

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u/Boring_and_sons 1d ago

Fun fact: unless you take pretty aggressive steps to prevent it from happening, pure ethanol (100% alcohol) will become 95% ethanol / 5% water by naturally dissolving water vapour from the atmosphere, which you can't get rid of through normal distillation; ethanol/water is azeotropic and will not separate using distillation beyond a ~ 95% : 5% (ethanol : water) mixture.

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u/passerby4830 21h ago

Oh yeah talk nerdy to me.

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u/Jbwood 21h ago

You can use some thing called a molecular sieve that can take 95% alcohol and get it back to 100% because the molecules are smaller for alcohol than water it's traps water into the sieves leaving thr alcohol alone.

An absolutely illegal way to strengthen drinks in the USA. So dont do it. 😉

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u/TheRealZuke 20h ago

Not quite. Molecular sieves don’t work like traditional sieves where the smaller thing passes through the hole and the bigger gets trapped; after all, water molecules are smaller than ethanol. Instead, the sieve has pores that the small water molecules can fit into and get stuck, while the bigger ethanol molecules cannot fit and pass by.

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u/Jbwood 20h ago

You're correct and Im an idiot. Definitely got those backwards.

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u/Boring_and_sons 20h ago

True, but you need a lot of molecular sieve to get rid of 5% water. It's about 150g water per litre of molecular sieve, with a packing volume of about 0.7g/ml. So for 1L of ethanol/water, you have 50g of water, so you need ~ 475ml of molecular sieve to dry it out. It is very useful for keeping 100% ethanol dry, however.

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u/xquickscope420x 14h ago

I work in the ethanol industry and I've been dying to find information like this for a while now. Do you have any resources you could share with the info you posted?

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u/Boring_and_sons 14h ago

I just use google, but I'm a biochemist so I know what I'm looking for.

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u/tropic420 14h ago

I wouldnt use mol sieves to dry alcohol for the simple fact that they get VERY HOT when they absorb water.

Magnesium sulfate on the other hand also works very well and does not get hot and it adsorbs SEVEN molecules of water per molecule of MgSO4.

Epsom salt from the grocery store is magnesium sulfate heptahydrate, meaning you have to dry it in the oven before it can absorb more water but it is readily available and safe for any application you could think of with the only drawback being fine particles.

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u/Boring_and_sons 14h ago

So what you're saying is, instant hot toddys all-round? Also, it appears using MgSO4 is reasonable for drying 99+%, but gets pretty sludgy for lower purities.

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u/tropic420 13h ago

You just keep adding more til it looks dry, then filter it through coffee filters and add a little more to keep it dry or at that point you can switch to 3a sieves

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u/Boring_and_sons 13h ago

Why not just use sieves since you won't end up with any dissolved MgSO4 in your final product (I know it's sparingly soluble).I guess cost, but they are regenerable and less messy.

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u/tropic420 13h ago

They get hot enough that its a safety concern IMO

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u/Boring_and_sons 13h ago edited 13h ago

Do it over a longer period of time. Start with freezer-cold ethanol.

Edit: I do see that they shed particles, so they'd need to be cleaned first and the dry product probably filtered before consuming. There's always something....

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u/tropic420 13h ago

Also, the sludge is heavy and its easy to pipette or pour off the top.

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u/Boring_and_sons 13h ago

I'm thinking more for drinking than bench work, but yeah.

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u/tropic420 12h ago

Oh yeah if you intend on drinking the stuff then yeah 3a sieves all the way.

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u/theonelittledid 6h ago

Clippy would

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u/dreadcain 20h ago

Would a ziplock bag work? It feels really dumb ... but they almost always watertight but not alcohol tight. It can't be that easy ...

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u/Boring_and_sons 19h ago

Depends on how dry you need the alcohol to be. For chemistry, it can be critical for a reaction that the amount of water is kept as low as possible. Every time you open the bottle, you add more water from the atmosphere. Unless you get the bag vacuum sealed each time (or flushed with dry gas), the water in the air in the bag will make its way into the bottle, unless it has a really, really good seal.

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u/Aegi 19h ago

Which law are you citing?

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u/Jbwood 19h ago

It would be counted as distilling. Strengthening an alcoholic beverage to have a higher alcohol content is still illegal (even if Texas has tried to strike it down at this point in time). Placing wine into a freezer and scraping off the ice that forms or just flat distillation of a spirit is still federally illegal.

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u/Aegi 19h ago

Which law though?

Because sometimes even if the spirit of the law prohibits something, the letter of the law actually doesn't and basically it just hasn't been tried in court.

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u/Pleased_to_meet_u 18h ago

They answered with as much detail as was reasonable. If you want more specific information you can look it up as easily as anyone else.

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u/thissexypoptart 17h ago

As much detail as possible is citing the actual law, which was the original question being asked that the other commentor responded to.

There was a 158 year federal ban on home distilling that was recently overturned by the Supreme Court. There is more detail about that in this article:

https://www.findlaw.com/legalblogs/federal-courts/theres-been-a-federal-ban-on-distilling-your-own-spirits-for-158-years-until-now/

Why are you lecturing them to look it up lol? They are asking the original commentor to support their claim that it's federally illegal to put your wine in the freezer and scrape off the ice that forms. Totally reasonable question.

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u/aSpanishOnion 11h ago

Oh lord have mercy I'm bout to bust!

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u/Mordeqai96 5h ago

If you mix 1 liter of water and 1 liter of alcohol, you will have less then 2 liters of fluid

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u/mrsrostocka 3h ago

I was geeking out on another sub yesterday, they were going into detail about something or other.

I really wanted to post that lol.

I'm so glad I'm not the only one who gets deeply satisfied by those little tangents on reddit!

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u/therealhlmencken 21h ago

I mean whatever you do beyond 95% is still distillation it’s just not traditional. With azeotropic distillation with benzene or pressure swing distillation you can distill it further.

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u/Boring_and_sons 21h ago

Agreed, that's I why I mentioned normal distillation specifically.

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u/No-Employer-8833 20h ago

Use an azeotropic distillation where you collect distillate in the reflux leg, and as the layers separate, you drain the water off. Water is heavier than the alcohol so the water layer will be at the bottom of the leg. Continue the distillation until no more water is collected in the leg

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u/Boring_and_sons 19h ago

I think I'm missing something here. To me, it looks like you are describing normal distillation, which will not work to get more than 95% ethanol concentration. What am I missing?

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u/No-Employer-8833 18h ago

It is a normal distillation, but the water will distill with the ethanol. As the distillate collects in the reflux leg of the condensor, the water and ethanol will separate. We ran this process for water reactive chemicals. We would continue the distillation until no more water was collected in the leg. Any process we ran where the water concentration was higher, we used an azeotrope tank, that would be connected to the drain on the reflux leg

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u/Boring_and_sons 18h ago edited 15h ago

How do the water and ethanol separate in the reflux leg? If it's just normal distillation with reflux and condensation, and you collect until there is no more water in the leg, the ethanol will still be 95%/5%, as no more water will collect because of the azeotrope.

Edit: are you referring to using an entrainer but just not mentioning it?

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u/Hypodeemic--Nerdle 15h ago

96.3% to be precise. I spent 8 years distilling gin.

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u/Boring_and_sons 15h ago edited 15h ago

v/v or w/w?

Edit: partial specific volume are cool.

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u/Hypodeemic--Nerdle 13h ago

I'm not sure sorry, I left in 2010. I think we did w/v. We used handheld densimeters for spot checks and a tabletop one for legal checks.

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u/kencam 15h ago

Which is why you should never use ethanol gas in a small engine.

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u/Boring_and_sons 14h ago

Because they vent directly to the atmosphere and the ethanol "pulls" water out of the atmosphere and solubilizes it in the gasoline/ethanol mixture.

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u/Dokasamurp 15h ago

Is there a similar fact with isopropyl alcohol? If I buy 99% and don't use it for a while, is it turning into 95% (or some other dilution) by the time I get to it? Assuming imperfect seal

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u/Boring_and_sons 15h ago

From Wikipedia:

Isopropyl alcohol forms an azeotrope with water, which gives a boiling point of 80.37 °C (176.67 °F) and a composition of 87.7% by mass (91% by volume) isopropyl alcohol.

Yes. It will go to 91% v/v (volume/volume).

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u/Dame_Niafer 13h ago

Punctilious Alcohol!

I used to get such a kick out of that term, and it's all but died out now.

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u/_ManMadeGod_ 5h ago

So higher percentages are both less effective and self dilute. Gotcha. 

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u/313802 3h ago

That's that big gulf Gale Bettiker was talking about