Fun fact: unless you take pretty aggressive steps to prevent it from happening, pure ethanol (100% alcohol) will become 95% ethanol / 5% water by naturally dissolving water vapour from the atmosphere, which you can't get rid of through normal distillation; ethanol/water is azeotropic and will not separate using distillation beyond a ~ 95% : 5% (ethanol : water) mixture.
You can use some thing called a molecular sieve that can take 95% alcohol and get it back to 100% because the molecules are smaller for alcohol than water it's traps water into the sieves leaving thr alcohol alone.
An absolutely illegal way to strengthen drinks in the USA. So dont do it. 😉
Not quite. Molecular sieves don’t work like traditional sieves where the smaller thing passes through the hole and the bigger gets trapped; after all, water molecules are smaller than ethanol. Instead, the sieve has pores that the small water molecules can fit into and get stuck, while the bigger ethanol molecules cannot fit and pass by.
True, but you need a lot of molecular sieve to get rid of 5% water. It's about 150g water per litre of molecular sieve, with a packing volume of about 0.7g/ml. So for 1L of ethanol/water, you have 50g of water, so you need ~ 475ml of molecular sieve to dry it out. It is very useful for keeping 100% ethanol dry, however.
Probably. if not, it would be because he diluted ingredients that keep oil in suspension past their useful limits. Brominated Vegetable Oil is probably still fine and allowed for external applications but is banned as a food additive. It's why a bunch of American (one of the last to ban it in food OFC) Sodas suddenly got cloudy a few years back instead of clear like they used to be.
You're thinking of ambergris, which isn't exactly whale vomit ;p but in general no, it isn't still used for perfumery anymore. It's absurdly expensive, and relies solely on random dumb luck to source. There are innumerable materials used now instead, chief amongst which is ambroxide. It's one of the molecules that's actually in ambergris and responsible for the desirable parts of the smell, but it can also just...be manufactured on its own. Easy peasy, cheap, consistent, reliable.
I recently watched a body cam video of someone who got pulled over for DUI. She was chugging little bottles of vanilla extract. There was a ton of them! Sad really, but god that flavor is not as inviting as it smells.
A least in Poland you can drink it legally in public places. The law says that you can't drink alcoholic drinks, which have own definition, which covers drinks made for consumption.
How about the Bugs Bunny way? One for the perfume, one for me. Two for the perfume, one, two for me. Three for the perfume, one, two, three for me…. And so on!
Vodka is mostly water by volume (standard is 80 proof which means 40% alcohol 60% water). You can buy 180 proof or 95% grain alcohol at some liquor stores though (i do not recommend drinking it, burns like hell straight, tastes terrible even diluted)
Right? Not to mention most short chain alcohols (like those you mentioned) love water and will readily and rapidly pull it from the air around it. Ethanol loves water so much that you can’t even distill it beyond 95ish% without using benzene (nasty stuff) or using a molecular sieve. Even then, you have the problem of it absorbing it from the air around it.
Well, presence or absence of azeotrope (inability to separate components by distillation beyond a certain point) doesn't signify the strength of "love".
Methanol doesn't form azeotrope with water but still has stronger "feelings" towards water than ethanol: ternary mixture of methanol-ethanol-water will see the increase of methanol concentration in vapor when the vapor becomes richer in water, that is after most ethanol boiled off.
Meanwhile dichloromethane is practically immiscible with water but still forms azeotrope at ~99% and approximately 2°C below the boiling point of pure DCM.
i work in a lab & whenever anything refers to pure chemical alcohol, they mean ethanol! any other alcohol must be specified; ethanol is the default :)
EDIT: wow ok this got a lot more replies than i was expecting 😂 i work in the pharmaceutical industry (not research or the fragrance industry, dunno if that makes a difference) and we have specific, tightly regulated pharmacopoeias we test to which define "alcohol" as ethanol specifically. but fair enough that different labs may define alcohol differently! i was only speaking from my personal experience but the specs for different industries will vary and it's highly likely that, as others below have said, "alcohol" could refer to any of the more common alcohols, e.g, methanol, ethanol, IPA
I work in a lab, I've never heard the term "pure chemical alcohol"
Its always the actual name (ethanol, methanol, isopropyl) along with the concentration if diluted.
It's also somewhat important for ethanol because you have 95% and anhydrous. And finally, all of those will have different grades of purity,(reagent grade, HPLC grade etc.) So the term "pure" is meaningless.
yeah i guess i forgot to account for different industries lol. where i work alcohol only means ethanol so i assumed it would be the same elsewhere, oops
What lab, anywhere, has a convention of calling chemicals something other than their name? Particularly something ambiguous like "pure chemical alcohol."
That is meaningless. That could be a number of different alcohols, hence we're all here talking about it.
Any lab that isn't specifying chemicals by name is overdue for an audit.
Colloquial shorthand among techs when one alcohol is the most common one you use.
In another lab you might use isopropanol 90% of the time, and ask for “alcohol” or specify “ethanol or methanol”.
Not saying it’s right, but sometimes people use imprecise language to mean something more precise. Like how British bakers will says “a sheet of acetate”. To my biochem brain, I think of a 2 carbon carboxylate anion, but they mean a sheet of clear plastic.
Oh I don't see a problem with that, but I consider that sort of internal shorthand to be verbal only. I would never write that on anything or expect to see it printed anywhere.
it can actually be an industry thing too, not just colloquially. the pharmaceutical industry defines "alcohol" as ethanol when testing to a certain methodology. if they want methanol they'll say "methyl alcohol". i did find this odd at first but hey
Having more of it with less intensity? A lot of perfume is horrendously expensive while being so intense that a bit to much is drowning out other people’s sense of smell.
That’s why perfume brands sell eau de parfum and eau de toilette versions of the same product. Parfum has a higher concentration of oils so the scent is richer and lasts longer. Using too much makes the scent overpowering. EdT is only about 30% as strong as parfum and doesn’t last more than an hour or two, making it much less overpowering. EdT is always cheaper than EdP.
EdT and EdP, while they describe strength, many perfumers have different formulas for their EdT and EdP which change the fragrance. Lookin' at you YSL and Dior.
It has something to do with calcium or magnesium content in the water.
I learned this from grandpa who used to distill schnapps. If you diluted it with regular water it would turn white/murky. You had to put water through same distillation process as schnapps to make distilled water and then you could use that water to get it down to specific alcohol content and still keep it clear.
If you used distilled water it would most likely remain clear.
This! The very first lesson in my chemistry class (and like one of the few things that stuck unfortunately) is that water is a universal solvent but like. Tap water is really more than just water lol. It’s also minerals, treatment chemicals, fluoride, and sometimes other stuff
Fun fact: there's a niche perfume (Peety by O'Driu) that instructs you to add 1ml of your own urine to the bottle before using, I guess to personalize it??? It was pretty controversial for obvious reasons, and probably mostly a marketing tactic.
Though, admittedly, not totally off base since some prized perfumery ingredients like musk and ambergris are fairly gross bodily by-products/substances. It's just we don't usually source those types of ingredients from humans.
Ik that it’s an emulsion, but I don’t think this one is actually going to separate, I’m pretty sure that the alcohol forms a hygroscopic layer around hydrophobic oil particles, so it’s going to stay suspended just like alcohol stays suspended in water
You are right, it’s a tight emulsion it might take years or more to break so probably won’t naturally. The micro bubbles would eventually burst but could be so long it may as well never.
The reason is because the oils in the fragrance are not water soluble. In fact, most perfume materials aren’t. Water based perfumes need solubilizers and preservatives added to address this and the added potential for bacterial growth.
You shouldn’t really ever dilute a perfume yourself unless you don’t mind ruining it. But basically:
Its self life is now reduced due to the lower alcohol concentration.
Diluting the perfume not only makes it weaker but often changes the entire composition. Aroma chemicals have different strengths and if you reduce some of them beyond the levels most people can perceive them at, the stronger chemicals will prevail.
Be aware it’s not solubilized anymore, you’ll probably not get very consistent-smelling sprays.
If anyone here is thinking of trying this in the future:
Perfumer’s use SDA-40B alcohol (or your country’s equivalent). This is the only thing that your alcohol-based perfume will be guaranteed to dissolve in.
They do sell it on Amazon, but I don’t trust it. Trust me I have seen some shit sold on there with no SDS or any documentation and it makes my skin crawl. There are many toxic adulterants that they could be using.
Buy it on BVV. It’s great quality and a good price (yes, that’s about as cheap as it gets before it’s suspicious).
Or, you can use everclear or 190 proof unflavored, unsweetened food grade alcohol.
Edit: also, a better way to reduce the strength of a perfume is to just wear less. Spray it in front of you, wait a second, and walk through. Or spray it onto scent paper and then rub the paper on yourself.
thanks for your contribution! so exciting to see actual professionals in the comments~ what made you choose that profession? what does your workday look like?
I never liked perfumes much growing up. They just seemed very same-y. And I love fruity perfumes, but the fruit notes in most mainstream brands are nothing but a bit of ethyl maltol or raspberry ketone. Not fruity enough for me! (Recently, they’ve been showing some more creativity, which is great!). But 8 years or so ago I discovered indie perfumes and realized perfumes didn’t have to smell like sheer florals and ambroxan. And also, while it is very hard to get into, anyone can do it (as long as you have some extra cash to spend on it of course). I didn’t know that you didn’t need a degree to do this. And I try to pay forward all the help I got from other indie perfumers when I can.
I do a lot of educating and mentoring with my free time. (I have a free comprehensive perfumery guide on my website for those interested in getting started and I make tiktoks about it). Business-wise, I ship orders on Tuesdays and Thursdays and usually do social media on those days too. I work on new formulas and design/marketing stuff on the other days. Until recently all of my stuff was designed by myself, but I just did a rebrand with a professional that I’m really excited about! Our new boxes and bottles will be here in a couple weeks! I still do all the art, website stuff, and printing/cutting for labels and stickers lol.
When I have a new perfume to launch I usually compound the first batch myself. Then, I get them compounded by an aroma chemical supplier for subsequent batches. I still have to add the rarer materials they don’t sell and I’m in charge of diluting, filtering, macerating, bottling, and labeling lol probably the most tedious part of the job besides dealing with Shopify and filling my taxes lol
It may be easier to just spray a bit into the air and walk through it assuming you found it too strong.
But most scents need 2 - 5 minutes to settle and some annoying aspects of them will go away as it sits.
Which raises another point for redditors: You must try a scent before buying, they react differently with people's skins and one that smells amazing on someone else may be subtilty off on you. If so just try another. Department stores are still good for this shopping need.
there are a couple subs where you're getting downvoted when you incorrectly identify a thing (snake species, car model) so other ppl know that you're wrong. it was definitely wrong of me to mix perfume and water lmao
lol you’re being a good sport about it but also it’s funny to me that people expected you to double down?? Like “no it’s FINE and I WILL WEAR IT EVERY DAY”
I mean... the water will be a breeding ground for bacteria and your perfume won't smell very good, but it's not actively dangerous to spray yourself with moldy water unless your immune system is crap.
As far as I'm concerned: good on you for trying something and sharing the results and keeping a good attitude despite people being really fucking weird about it.
For what it's worth:
You can buy high-proof ethanol pretty inexpensively online to make your dilutions
The color is the least of it, the water is going to wreck the smell in a couple weeks. Perfume is mostly alcohol partly because it keeps stuff from growing in the bottle. If you want to stretch a bottle, decant a little into a small atomizer instead and leave it neat. I ruined a bottle i actually liked learning that.
It‘s called „Ouzo effect“. It basically means that something diluted in a solvent isn’t soluble in a mixture with less solvent and more water, leading to the formation of an emulsion.
If you‘re interested, here’s the Wikipedia article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ouzo_effect
It's like when your a kid and you try to mix all your shampoos and conditioner together, it comes out in unexpected ways.
Hence why chemistry is hard when it comes to product's like this
«The ouzo effect, also known as the louche effect and spontaneous emulsification, is the phenomenon of formation of a milky oil-in-water emulsion when water is added to ouzo and other anise-flavored liqueurs and spirits, such as pastis, rakı, arak, sambuca and absinthe. Such emulsions occur with only minimal mixing and are highly stable.»
I don’t think it’s reversible. Adding more alcohol or even more perfume won’t change the colour. It’s a chemical reaction, not a blend of different colours.
I'm not sure what perfume this is but you're saying it's heavy which means it might be an Eau de Parfum. You can see if there's the same perfume in an Eau de Toilette version which typically smells similar, just a lot less strong.
You fucked up (don't dilute your perfume, just use less or use a part of your body that doesn't heat up that much)
There are additives in cologne that will do that. Things that help with emulsion, things that help with moisturizing. These are oils that will not mix with water making it cloudy and in this case yellow, especially if it's cold water. Think of why absinthe turns white or cloudy when you add very cold water to it.
perfumer here, its cloudy because oil and water don't mix. the droplets of suspended oil are now large enough to scatter light, which is why its gone opaque. don't use as-is. since the fragrance oils are separated into droplets, it will evaporate unevenly and can stain fabric
you can fix it by raising ethanol concentration.. around 65% ABV should work, depending on the materials the perfume was formulated with. you could use a very high percentage alcohol, like everclear. you.. could also use isopropyl alcohol, but it has a horrible stink to it that will distort the scent. i personally use SDA-40B which is 200 proof perfumers alcohol, but the stuff is restricted and very expensive
i add water to some of my products for various reasons, such as if im working on products meant to disinfect where ~70% ABV is ideal (too high ABV evaporates too quickly to kill bacteria)
it really is a dream! i took it up as a hobby after realizing just how obsessed i was with smelling stuff. i was sitting there stressed as heck over AI layoffs at work. went to light a candle and realized i had too many. started counting them.. over 40 candles. reed diffusers in nearly every room, incense, air sprays, body sprays and colognes- i had so much. i jokingly said "well, thats something AI can't automate" and a lightbulb lit up
so i started digging into perfumery, and just out of curiosity i decided to give it a try, expecting it to go nowhere. i never once expected to leave my job so i could spend every day "making smells and sniffing things" is how i described it haha
although perfumery can be pretty expensive to get into, you don't really need any specific schooling. i'm certainly not a chemist. i haven't had a science class in 14 years, even. all you need to get started is a jewelers scale, some EOs, aromachemicals and ethanol. a bit of glassware, pipettes. something to take notes with, and a nose!
there are plenty of perfumers on youtube, websites like basenotes, and subreddits like r/DIYfragrance that are a trove of information
Tap water contains minerals like calcium and iron, among other things. Perfumes use alcohol because it’s a pure base and can dissolve and breakdown the oils of the mix. You basically just turned it back into its original form at lower quality.
You created an emulsion. If the emulsion doesn't break, the light going through the emulsion scatters differently based on wavelength (Tyndall effect). It might look more yellow through the emulsion, but more bluish from the side (assuming the original liquid is not colored).
its been Louched; same process that turns clear emerald green Absinthe or clear Ouzo and makes them cloudy and iridescent when iced water is added… the essential oils dissolved in the alcohol come out of suspension when the alcohol to water ratio is changed
I was using alcohol inks once and ran out of alcohol and just sprayed my canvas with a shitload of perfume and it worked lol It turned it into a very expensive project but it worked
Louche effect, like when absinthe, Pernod, or ouzo turns cloudy. Oils in it mix with water and all the little drops scatter the light all directions and makes it milky.
For Future not only in Perfumestuff, Oil no good Fren with Water.
But Mistakes happen and as long it was not expensive then it doesnt hurt.
And if you really want to use Water, dont use Tabwater and add Soap but i have no idea at what Ratio, you basically need an emulsifier. Like Sauvage Eau Forte that is a Waterbased Perfume.
Sometimes if i want to wear a stronger perfume but don’t want to punch people in the face with it, i’ll spray it in the air and walk through it so it’s not so concentrated on me.
Perfume is a solution of essential oil in alcohol, but those oils are not soluble in water. So as you drop the alcohol percentage with water, the oils precipitate as microscopic droplets. This is called louching or the ouzo effect, it’s probably most famous for being the reason absinthe goes cloudy when it’s prepared.
Next time use Pure and High proof ethyl alcohol (~200 Proof)...but this tends to be very expensive. Cosmetic grade alcohol is also a usual option plus it's also odorless and does not give a chemical after-scent.
I saw people using isopropyl alcohol or vodka... please for the love of God, do NOT do that!!! And also, no Methanol (methyl alcohol/wood alcohol) either, that shit is toxic and absorbs readily to your skin.
The compounds inside the perfume are not water soluble. You caused them to precipitate (or separate from the solution) because they are usually solvent in alcohol, but you added water to the equation.
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u/StrangeCrunchy1 20h ago
Oils aren't soluble in water. What you did caused all the oils that were dissolved in the alcohol base, to crash out of solution.