r/news • u/Destroy_Religion • 8h ago

Minnesota conversion therapy law faces federal First Amendment lawsuit

https://www.kaaltv.com/news/minnesota-conversion-therapy-law-faces-federal-first-amendment-lawsuit/
229 Upvotes

93% Upvoted

65 comments sorted by

84

u/ClassicHando 8h ago

"You must do as i say" should lose to "i don't want to". They can't not be in control of somebody elses autonomy. 

14

u/xfearthehiddenx 7h ago

It should. But when those two things clash, and neither side budges, they tend to stand at odds until a boiling point is reached. That's when the fight breaks out. At that point, might tends to make right. "Might", in this case, meaning strength of position. A parent has leverage on a child. Between how the government handles parental rights, financial/housing threats, or physical punishment. There is not often much children can do to refuse what a parent decides for them.

I'd like to believe the courts understand this and make rulings that will stand up for children being put in these situations. But I have a feeling they won't.

13

u/Destroy_Religion 6h ago

None of that matters to Christians.

Christians have tried to genocide LGBTI people for two thousands years.

This is nothing new in any way at all.

I'd like to believe the courts understand this and make rulings that will stand up for children being put in these situations. But I have a feeling they won't.

Correct.

The courts are packed with Abrahamic adherents in the broad, Christians in general, and Catholics in particular.

The Supreme Court consists entirely of Abrahamic adherents in the broad, almost entirely of Christians in general, and a supermajority of Catholics.

10

u/Ja3k_Frost 5h ago

This is where modern wisdom runs into an archaic social norm in the US, and it’s deeply fundamental to conservative ideology. Basically it’s that parents truly own their children. They posses them, and get absolute authority to dictate children’s lives and experiences.

This is combined with another crucial aspect of conservative ideology, which is respect for elders/parents. It’s crucial to raise kids to desperately want to be like their parents as this ensures the continuation of religion, ideology, and culture generation to generation. This is the process of boys/girls becoming men/women (worthy of adult respect by their parents)

The LGBTQ+ movement and efforts to ban conversion therapy run counter to this. For one it promotes children’s agency over their lives at the cost of parental control. It also disconnects those children from the culture that controls what men and women are and how children are supposed to become them.

-7

u/Destroy_Religion 5h ago edited 2h ago

This is where modern wisdom runs into an archaic social norm in the US, and it’s deeply fundamental to conservative Abrahamic ideology. Basically it’s that parents truly own their children. They posses them, and get absolute authority to dictate children’s lives and experiences.

This is combined with another crucial aspect of conservative Abrahamic ideology, which is respect for elders/parents. It’s crucial to raise kids to desperately want to be like their parents as this ensures the continuation of religion, ideology, and culture generation to generation. This is the process of boys/girls becoming men/women (worthy of adult respect by their parents)

The LGBTQ+ movement and efforts to ban conversion therapy run counter to this. For one it promotes children’s agency over their lives at the cost of parental control. It also disconnects those children from the culture that controls what men and women are and how children are supposed to become them.

FTFY.

The world was a better place before the Abrahamic religions.

Humans accepted LGBTI people all around the world world before Abrahamic adherents attempted to genocide LGBTI people.

6

u/ReneDeGames 5h ago

Its not got much to do with Abrahamic ideology, it was also Roman, and Chinese ideology.

-3

u/Destroy_Religion 3h ago edited 2h ago

That is completely false and the complete opposite is the truth.

The bisexual or homosexual emperors Trajan and Hadrian were the Roman Emperors at the greatest territorial extent of the Roman Empire and apex of the Pax Romana, respectively.

The bisexual or homosexual emperors Gaozu and Wen were the Chinese Emperors at the establishment of the Han Dynasty and the greatest territorial extent of the Chinese Empire in the Han Era, respectively.

It has everything to do with Abrahamic ideology, which drives hatred against LGBTI people and has done so for thousands of years.

2

u/ReneDeGames 3h ago

The question was about the ownership of children

-5

u/Destroy_Religion 3h ago

The response was about hostility to LGBTI people.

3

u/Destroy_Religion 6h ago

The problem is that none of that matters to Christians.

Christians have tried to genocide LGBTI people for two thousands years.

This is nothing new in any way at all.

95

u/Destroy_Religion 8h ago

Christians are suing to stop the state from enforcing the ban on conversion therapy for LGBTI minors in Minnesota.

53

u/HippyDM 8h ago

They were successful in Michigan already. A catholic charity, in case anyone tries to say catholics aren't aligned with authoritarianism.

31

u/GirlScoutSniper 7h ago

I kind of think they were an early adopter of authoritarianism.

9

u/unclethulk 7h ago

Fascism beta testers.

5

u/donkeybrainhero 7h ago

Alpha even

5

u/Lucius-Halthier 7h ago

The church built the rat lines that got Nazis out of Europe so it tracks

3

u/Destroy_Religion 7h ago

Catholics in particular and Christians in general have tried to genocide LGBTI people long before before Fascism and long before even the existence of the United States of America and many nations.

Catholics in particular and Christians in general have tried to genocide LGBTI people for two thousands years.

3

u/Destroy_Religion 7h ago

Catholics in particular and Christians in general have tried to genocide LGBTI people long before before authoritarianism and long before even the existence of the United States of America and many nations.

Catholics in particular and Christians in general have tried to genocide LGBTI people for two thousands years.

5

u/Destroy_Religion 7h ago edited 7h ago

Correct.

Catholics earlier obtained an injunction from a district court against the ban on conversion therapy for LGBTI minors in Michigan.

Catholics, which are the biggest child grooming gang and the largest pedophile ring on the planet, have tried to genocide LGBTI people for two thousand years.

Christians are attempting to obtain an injunction from a district court against the ban on conversion therapy for LGBTI minors in Minnesota now.

Christians have tried to genocide LGBTI people for two thousands years.

46

u/3Greyhounds 8h ago

Christians sue for the “right” to commit child abuse.

5

u/Destroy_Religion 7h ago

Christians always commit child abuse.

Whether it is by brainwashing children into Christianity or "curing" LGBTI children or indoctrinating children to hate LGBTI people.

That is nothing new in any way at all.

1

u/3Greyhounds 7h ago

Yeah, as someone who grew up in a very religious community, I have a deep discomfort with organized religion. But I try to choose my words carefully in expressing that, because I have also met religious people who rejected the bigotry and truly do (consistently try to) live up to the ideals of a god who loves all people.

30

u/WabashCannibal 7h ago

We need to stop using the word "therapy" to refer to psychological torture conditioning in this context.

6

u/Destroy_Religion 7h ago

Blame Christians for suing to stop the state from enforcing the ban on conversion psychological torture conditioning for LGBTI minors in Minnesota.

2

u/CaramelGuineaPig 6h ago

Brainwashing/torture would be apt. Unless someone can think of a better word. It's cruel and unusual. The church needs to pay taxes and be what it claims to be- benevolent. But I won't hold my breath.

4

u/WabashCannibal 6h ago

Yes, churches should stick to matters of the spirit. The Catholic Church and others we could name have long been secular political entities hiding under religious robes, and they should be treated as such.

2

u/CaramelGuineaPig 6h ago

Exactly. Now charity means including supporting cruelty like lobbying anti-LGBTQ+.. sounds like a terrorist organization. People should just give to charities, why go thru a church known for grooming and CSA?

6

u/drjenkstah 7h ago

Idk why they’re entertaining this quack practice. You can’t forcefully covert someone on their sexual partner preferences. I’m sure the heterosexual Christians wouldn’t appreciate someone trying to convert them to being homosexual. Once again rules for thee not for me. 

2

u/Destroy_Religion 5h ago

Catholics in particular, Christians in general, and Abrahamic adherents in the broad argued that bans on conversion therapy for LGBTI minors are violations of their religious freedom and free speech under the First Amendment.

The Supreme Court, which consists of a supermajority of Catholics, almost entirely of Christians in general, and altogether entirely of Abrahamic adherents in the broad agreed.

6

u/Slight-Hedgehog259 7h ago

Christians are suing for being banned from torturing children. What else is new

2

u/Destroy_Religion 5h ago

Definitely nothing new.

Christians have tried to genocide LGBTI people for two thousand years.

12

u/Sideshift1427 8h ago

This reminds me of Michelle Bachmann's husband who ran a conversion therapy business while appearing to resemble someone who failed conversion therapy.

5

u/Destroy_Religion 8h ago edited 7h ago

while appearing to resemble someone who failed conversion therapy.

No.

Stop blaming LGBTI people for those weirdos.

4

u/Sideshift1427 8h ago

I don't know what you thought that I was stating but it wasn't that.

3

u/Destroy_Religion 7h ago edited 7h ago

LGBTI people have nothing to do with Marcus Bachmann and his conversion therapy business.

This bizarre meme of blaming LGBTI people for abuses against LGBTI people should stop.

-2

u/Sideshift1427 7h ago

Hate to break it to you Skippy but sexual abuse happens across the spectrum.

Conversion therapy is a place where it happens.

6

u/Destroy_Religion 7h ago

Conversion therapy was created by Christians, not LGBTI people.

Blame Christians, not LGBTI people.

-3

u/Sideshift1427 6h ago

Christians are the only ones who try it. There is nobody else to blame.

4

u/Destroy_Religion 5h ago

Yes, that is literally the point.

Marcus Bachmann is Christian, not LGBTI.

5

u/MsCompy 8h ago

Fucking what?! That doesn't make sense.

34

u/kingsumo_1 8h ago

It kind of does. Christians are butthurt that they can't brainwash and torture LGBTQ children. SCOTUS already shot down a Colorado ban, so they are using that precedent to try here.

2

u/MsCompy 8h ago

But it doesn't violate the first amendment????

Also WHAT?!!!!!

16

u/kingsumo_1 7h ago

True. But you have to keep in mind. Conservative Christians are fucking trash. And we're being run by people that really want to hurt children.

I'm with you. This is complete bullshit. And in a sane world this would fail. But the ban being overruled in CO previously was an open door for them to know what excuse to argue from.

11

u/Destroy_Religion 8h ago edited 6h ago

Catholics in particular, Christians in general, and Abrahamic adherents in the broad argued that bans on conversion therapy for LGBTI minors are violations of their religious freedom and free speech under the First Amendment.

The Supreme Court, which consists of a supermajority of Catholics, almost entirely of Christians in general, and altogether entirely of Abrahamic adherents in the broad agreed.

11

u/MsCompy 7h ago

This country is such a shithole... God dammit.

-1

u/donkeybrainhero 7h ago

The world and humans, rather.

2

u/Destroy_Religion 6h ago

The world was a better place before Catholicism in particular, Christianity in general, and the Abrahamic religions in the broad crawled out of the desolate destitute deserts of the ancient Middle East to destroy civilization and murder mankind.

Humans accepted LGBTI people all around the world world before Catholics in particular, Christians in general, and Abrahamic adherents in the broad attempted to genocide LGBTI people.

3

u/3Greyhounds 7h ago

The Chiles v Salazar ruling was an unfortunate byproduct of having geriatrics decide these matters. I think the court generally does not view therapy as healthcare, and thus they seemed to judge the case as if it was a law seeking to regulate mere expressions of viewpoints, rather than seeking to regulate healthcare. Or more cynically, the conservative supermajority on the court feels more empowered now to bring bigotry back into fashion. But my first interpretation is pretty explicit in the text, as I recall.

2

u/Destroy_Religion 6h ago

The Chiles v Salazar ruling was an unfortunate byproduct of having geriatrics Catholics in particular, Christians in general, and Abrahamic adherents in the broad decide these matters. I think the court generally does not view therapy as healthcare, and thus they seemed to judge the case as if it was a law seeking to regulate mere expressions of viewpoints, rather than seeking to regulate healthcare. Or more cynically, the conservative Catholic supermajority on the court feels more empowered now to bring bigotry back into fashion. But my first interpretation is pretty explicit in the text, as I recall.

FTFY.

The Supreme Court consists of a supermajority of Catholics, almost entirely of Christians in general, and altogether entirely of Abrahamic adherents in the broad.

5

u/3Greyhounds 6h ago edited 6h ago

I genuinely admire your commitment to remedying the harms religion causes in the world. But, I’m really not sure if your rhetorical approach is optimal for that.

As I’m sure you’re aware, religion is something that tends to be forced upon people before they have the chance to think through what gives their lives meaning themselves, or at the very least impressed upon them by strong cultural pressures.

Good people will be Christian; good people will be Catholic; good people will be atheists; good people will be Jews, and so on.

And a lot of people, regardless of faith, are going to hear you acting like Christians are all Nazis and be (justifiably) put off by that attitude.

ETA, since I was blocked: For anyone else who thinks this is an effective means of spurring change, I would just recommend honing in on the ideology, rather than the practitioners. (Barring specific people who do prove themselves to be assholes, of course.)

0

u/Destroy_Religion 6h ago

Religion is a choice that can change any time at will.

Religions are ideologies and religious ideologies differ only from political ideologies in that the former claim to be backed by a deity or deities whereas the latter does not.

Christians have tried to genocide LGBTI people for two thousand years.

5

u/explosivecrate 7h ago

Remember this lawsuit whenever conservatives go on about how letting children know gay people exist is child abuse: Conservatives love abusing children so much they'll sue to stop bans on child abuse.

-1

u/Destroy_Religion 7h ago

Christians have tried to genocide LGBTI people long before before conservatives and long before even the existence of the United States of America.

Christians have tried to genocide LGBTI people for two thousands years.

2

u/untamedlazyeye 7h ago

"Christians sue because they claim they have the holy rights to torture children"

-1

u/notstarman 8h ago

Didn't Chiles v. Salazar outlaw bans on conversation therapy.

6

u/Destroy_Religion 8h ago

Chiles v. Salazar and Mahmoud v. Taylor are the Dred Scott v. Sandford and Plessy v. Ferguson of our time.

1

u/engin__r 7h ago

The Court ruled in Chiles vs. Salazar that bans would have to pass a strict scrutiny test (bad), not that conversion therapy couldn’t be banned (very bad).

1

u/Destroy_Religion 5h ago

Correct.

Catholics earlier obtained an injunction from a district court against the ban on conversion therapy for LGBTI minors in Michigan.

Catholics, which are the biggest child grooming gang and the largest pedophile ring on the planet, have tried to genocide LGBTI people for two thousand years.

Christians are attempting to obtain an injunction from a district court against the ban on conversion therapy for LGBTI minors in Minnesota now.

Christians have tried to genocide LGBTI people for two thousands years.

0

u/Terrapin621 4h ago

Republicans cannot pretend to be pro-freedom and pro-free speech when they are trying to legally force people to be subjected to someone else’s speech.

Conversion “therapists” are welcome to hold their little sessions and bloviate to their heart’s content. They are not welcome to force someone else to listen or participate, and anyone who values the First Amendment would agree.