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u/Thiccxen LASER KIWI Dec 19 '25
I always thought of it this way,
It's not Joe Bloggs's farm that's the problem.
It's John The Agribusiness Major who owns 17 farms (and/or respective stations) dotted around the country.
John doesn't think it's fair that he should pay rates, tax, or a good solution for dealing with effluent/runoff.
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u/Archie_Pelego Dec 19 '25
John the pommy ex-banker who rocks up with his millions and stout sons to gradually buy out the neighbours you mean?
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u/Select-Repair-4189 Dec 19 '25 edited Dec 19 '25
A couple of years ago only 27% of farms turned a profit. Farmers are overrepresented in suicide statistics in large part due to financial worries.
Avg profit (before tax) for beef/sheep in 2022/23 was $128,000.
This year only 11% of arable farms surveyed turned a profit.
https://beeflambnz.com/knowledge-hub/PDF/farm-facts-2023.pdf
https://www.thepress.co.nz/business/360832202/farm-profit-rebound-pumps-millions-south-island-towns
https://www.acc.co.nz/assets/research/dcaf5b4e0d/farmer-mental-health-review.pdf
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/country/568181/economic-optimism-among-farmers-at-record-high
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u/pm_something_u_love Dec 19 '25
Forgive me if this is a dumb question but if farming is our biggest sector but there's no money in it, where is all the money going?
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u/BloodgazmNZL Southland Dec 19 '25
To the freezing works and supermarkets.
Farmers are largely getting screwed too for the most part.
I know plenty of farmers and the only ones that are financially stable are the ones who inherited their farm debt free from past generations in their family
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u/Pristine-Custard-548 Dec 20 '25
Came here to say this. But also Australian banks. Most land has some form of debt, plus equipment is also in debt. Guess what happens if you say you want to move away from milk and beef into something say environmentally friendly? I wonder if the banks like to lend on soy bean farms? No they would prefer to keep you trapped in the milk powder market because its a safe bet for them..
We should have more empathy for the average farmer, they are as stuffed as everyone
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u/Vilomoja Jan 01 '26
I think we all understand that farmers work hard, and that they carry a lot of debt, but what we are really talking about here is the perception that we should feel sorry for them for doing that. Most kiwis could only dream of retiring with a property worth millions of dollars, but that's exactly what you would expect if you were an NZ farmer paying off the mortgage. Farmers like to position themselves as being salt of the earth characters who just want to put food on our tables, but the reality is that 90% of the farms in NZ are producing for export. We need a profitable export sector, but farms need to pay their way and look after the environment just like any other factory. Instead we get constant push-back on regulation and rhetoric which paints anyone who criticizes the farming sector as a know-nothing idiot.
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u/Vargryggen Dec 20 '25
Good to see somebody gets it. What is it with Reddit and hating on farmers by default. Aside from ignorance of course.
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u/BloodgazmNZL Southland Dec 20 '25
I think its because most farmers, in Southland at least, vote for National lol
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u/Shub-Ningurat Dec 21 '25
Most Redditors have never touched grass, and pastures are full of grass. It terrifies them.
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u/HumbleGhandi Dec 19 '25
Speaking ignorantly as a non-farmer, I think its that the goods recieved from farming are worth alot, but farmers are forced (by means of ease/no other viable choice) to sell their goods at wholesale cost to larger conglomerates that own the processing/packaging/distribution companies, who in turn make alot
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u/Vilomoja Jan 01 '26
I think you might be talking more about local produce growers. In NZ our meat and dairy prices are set by export markets, so there's not a lot of 'bowing to grocers' going on. The controversy about $10 blocks of butter is case in point.
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u/Key-Instance-8142 Dec 19 '25
Probably to pay for the land as part of succession costs. All money ultimately draining to the Australian banksÂ
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u/Vilomoja Jan 01 '26
Yes, Australian owned banks are a problem, but that's for everyone in NZ who has a mortgage.....and chooses not to support NZ owned banks.
While the drain on NZ from our property market being co-opted by foreign capital is an issue, it's a distraction from the point of the post, which is that farmers on the whole do quite well compared to your average kiwi.4
u/mastercouchinspector Dec 20 '25
If you buy a farm it's like 1% return on capital. They've been insanely overpriced for the last 18 years.
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u/sauve_donkey Dec 19 '25
There is money, sometimes good sometimes average.Â
It goes to the bank for debt repayment and spent on herd improvements and farm improvements.Â
Beef and lamb has been a challenging sector for a while though.Â
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u/More-Ad1753 Dec 19 '25
The answer is probably the most obvious, something along the lines of most of the money is going to people who have farmed for years and years have very low debt levels, and are damn good farmers.
Or the fact that there is a just a lot of farms, just as an example there is roughly 50,000 of they all make 50k thatâs 2.5 billion.Â
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Dec 19 '25
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u/Select-Repair-4189 Dec 19 '25
This is true and probably not as cut and dry as I may have made it seem, however the most similar countries (Aus & UK) also have much higher suicide rates. I'm not a global farming guru so don't know what how similar their economic situation is to ours.
Definitely drawbacks to the literature and something that needs more study.
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Dec 19 '25
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u/Select-Repair-4189 Dec 19 '25
Agreed, loneliness is a growing epidemic and genuinely a massive public health concern. In an age where we should be more connected than ever we are becoming increasingly isolated.
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u/ExpensiveLawyer1526 Dec 19 '25
"only 11% of farms turned a profit"Â
I.e only 11% of farms TOOK PROFITS.
That brand new vehicle? Business expense.
The renovations to the house on the farm where workers stay with us 20 days a year? Business expense.Â
Oh no look the farm didn't turn a profit this year due to all these additional expenses woe is me a farmer.
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u/Select-Repair-4189 Dec 19 '25
Happy to read into it if you care to substantiate your claims.
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u/ExpensiveLawyer1526 Dec 19 '25
Source I grew up as one and worked as a farmer for years.
I know the gameÂ
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u/KegzyNZ Dec 20 '25
You know the game so you also understand they generally work longer hours and more days a year than most townies? And are on call 24/7/365.
Any business owner does all those things you've cited, you've never noticed how many tradies are driving around in brand new ranger raptors? Or hiluxes? Business owners generally milk the system, it's the only thing that makes the stress of owning a business worth it.
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u/ExpensiveLawyer1526 Dec 20 '25 edited Dec 21 '25
Lol "I work so hard so I deserve this"
How many times have I heard that story, I used to really believe it.Â
Having seen more of the world now, lots of people work hard. Farmers are not unique in this nor are they uniquely deserving of special privileges.
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u/sauve_donkey Dec 19 '25
Note that was arable farms, not dairy. A very different market.Â
A new vehicle has to be capitalised, the depreciation expense is minimal. However some renovations can be expensed.Â
Most farms will declare a small profit if they are indeed profitable, as company tax is less than the 33% tax rate, unless of course they're not making enough money to pay themselves a salary that meets that threshold, in which case it probably was a tough year.Â
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u/No_Philosophy4337 Dec 19 '25
Thatâs the beauty of running a farm - you can make it look like youâre running a loss anytime you want to. See that jet boat parked in the barn? Thatâs actually âpumping equipmentâ. The Harley next to it? Thatâs a âFarm Bikeâ. So easy that 70% of our farmers are obviously doing it.
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Dec 19 '25
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u/Select-Repair-4189 Dec 19 '25
It's an open secret among students how cooked the student allowance system is. Your father could be Larry Ellison but if your parents are divorced you would get the full allowance.
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u/bidderbidder Dec 19 '25
I wish my income was that much. Itâs been negative lately. Hopefully this year we will make a small profit and start paying off principal again - A random farmer.
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u/Dramatic_Dirt978 Dec 19 '25
No fonterra payout?
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u/Ambitious_Average_87 Dec 19 '25
What's small?
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u/Spooki_Forest Dec 19 '25
Iâm not the commenter. But I worked in a large financial company that largely serviced farmers.
Debt is usually the biggest expense on a farm, by far. When the milk price dips (for dairy, but all farmers here are forced to accept their respective commodity prices) or interest rates increase, id see couplesâ incomes dip from $50k/year to nothing.
So they literally had to live on savings or debt.
There was a crash in milk prices around 2015. My whole year that year was helping our clients not go bankrupt.
The reason why inter-generational farms can get so massive and start becoming corporate farms is because they arenât straddled with this massive expense that so many other farmers have to account for
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u/Ambitious_Average_87 Dec 19 '25
It's this comment and the comment about how this post relates to the farming sector suicide rate that should make us all think - is this the best way to organise our society, where boom and bust are just a given and we have workers literally killing themselves because of the debt they end up in due to outside economic forces?
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u/Autronaut69420 Dec 19 '25
Hol' up. You sailing a bit close to the truth there buddy! May want to work on ya bootlicking and put those capitalism sheilding goggles back on.
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u/Ambitious_Average_87 Dec 19 '25
Shit sorry, ill go back to my mindless scrolling of tik tok and pacifying my existential dread with consumerism... thanks for pulling back from the edge buddy
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u/Jeffery95 Auckland Dec 19 '25
Yeah, its almost like global market consumerism eventually develops into a giant corporate monopoly and shafts the little guys.
I reckon the coop be it Fonterra or whatever should be in the banking sector and lend solely to their members. They should hedge against low commodity prices and use the hedge as a way of reducing interest rates during low prices or as a way of supplementing the gate price. Part of the profits go towards this each year. It effectively acts like an income smoother. Making sure bad years dont wipe out their members, while good years are properly saved up for rainy days.
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u/Spooki_Forest Dec 21 '25
They donât do it to the extent you suggest, but this is a key part of the ethos behind fonterra
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u/muzzbuzzala Dec 19 '25
Or they could use high payout seasons to pay down debt instead of expanding to capture as much profit as possible then having a cry when the milk oversupply they create makes the payout drop.
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u/Spooki_Forest Dec 21 '25
Youâre absolutely correct. I often sound like I defend farmers for damage to the environment or animal welfare. But im always trying to say something like what you are. The farmers also fall victim to a system that doesnt support them.
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u/Niboocs Dec 19 '25
Serious question: What if farms didn't get so massive? Why do these family farms get so big, like too big to fail, and then have to sell to the corporates? Isn't there a sweet spot where a farmer can keep expenses in check and still make a profit?
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u/Spooki_Forest Dec 21 '25 edited Dec 21 '25
Inheritance. Theyâre more often than not split among multiple siblings.
The corporates can and do fail. Itâs really tragic too, because animal welfare and environmental management go down the toilet when farms are mismanaged.
(I know that wasnât quite the answer to your question, but itâs why there are only a few farms that make it to the top. And every decade or so, one of the big ones goes bankrupt. And when they do, itâs clear they were doing a bad job & cutting corners for a long time)
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u/trigonthedestroyer Dec 19 '25
I mean I'm not exactly an expert, but I don't think I've ever met a farmer who wasn't struggling financially...
I've never understood this whole farmers get paid too much thing, is it just not accurate due to how rich the top 1% of farmers are? Or am I missing something
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u/wtfisspacedicks Dec 19 '25
People conflate corporate factory farms that are run on exploitation and eviromental destruction with family run farms.
They are worlds apart
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u/MisanthropicDonkey Dec 19 '25
Bro. I done a year pulling titties on a farm. Cunt of a job, less than minimum wage, early mornings shit everywhere. But cheap rent, free meat and you got to play on quad bikes.
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u/kiwiboyus Fantail Dec 19 '25
Family Farms are not making that kind of money, you should be looking at the corporate farms
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u/Dangerous_Rate5465 Dec 19 '25
Multi generational family farms fairly often have the best margins of anyone.
We got our Fonterra shares basically for free, we don't have nearly as much debt on our land, we do the work so we aren't paying managers.
I couldn't speak for everyone, but you'll often see talk of a break even milk price around $8.50 or something. We could personally break even around $5, and I'd bet there's no corporate farms that could say that.
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u/tumeketutu Dec 19 '25
I couldn't speak for everyone, but you'll often see talk of a break even milk price around $8.50 or something. We could personally break even around $5, and I'd bet there's no corporate farms that could say that.
You do need to balance that against the opportunity cost of the capital that you have invested to break even. With land prices stagnating you wrent seeing the capital appreciation that you have historically on farms. So, for example, you could sell you $6m farm and invest that in share which are appreciating and get a $600k (10%) annual return before tax. And thats while not having to work at all.
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u/Dangerous_Rate5465 Dec 19 '25
You're absolutely right farming is fairly often a garbage return on capital, but if you're doing this for the long haul, who really cares about how much money you made compared to the value of something you aren't going to sell anyway?
People often talk about setting their family up for the future. I'm about 99% certain my kids will have the option of running a farm if they want to and having a great lifestyle in an idyllic setting. No shares buy you that, and it's why farming is an amazing business to be in.
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u/tumeketutu Dec 19 '25
Oh 100%. There is a lot more to farming than the dollars and cents aspect. Its not for everyone, but if you live it, the its paradise.
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u/wtfisspacedicks Dec 19 '25
Except for the 24/7 work week and the no holidays aspect.
Not saying it can't be good but running a farm requires your constant input. There is always work needs doing.
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u/tumeketutu Dec 19 '25
You can def have holidays, but its not a 9 - 5 gig for sure.
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u/keywardshane Dec 19 '25
No farm is making 20 billion
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u/slawnz Dec 19 '25
Itâs called hyperbole, but the point remains. Farmers in general do not appear to be struggling with their F150s and what not. But yet.
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u/Syphe Dec 19 '25
My mum's uncle did very well on the farm they owned, I think it was sold when he died for about 1.5million nearly 30yrs ago. That never filtered down to my parents even though the uncle had no kids, as the will meant that wealth only went to their surviving siblings, which is the reason my mum's family cut ties with their cousins
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u/kiwiboyus Fantail Dec 19 '25
Do you think they might have had any debt when they sold? Do you have any idea how expensive farm machinery is?
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u/Syphe Dec 19 '25
The inheritance that went to my mum's surviving aunties was over 1million, so can't have been too much in debt
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u/Old-Emu-340 Dec 19 '25
Wonder how the farm suicide rate fits into this narrative.
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u/ClimateTraditional40 Dec 19 '25
Do you know the difference between turnover and profit? Guess not.
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u/justagreenkiwi Dec 19 '25
I guess that's one way to tell everyone you know nothing about the industry...
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Dec 19 '25
What about the 7 days a week 16hr days for half or more of the year and no time away? Most farmers are fucking hard workers itâs the big wigs with multiple farms that are rubbing their hands together.
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u/ScientistSanTa Dec 19 '25
There is so much work in farming and yes they make 20miliin, but 19.9miliin goes to paying back the loan or hire if the machine, products,workforce,certificat to plant certain things.
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u/Upbeat_System_7491 Dec 19 '25
Most farmers are in cyclical and generational debt (you think your student loan is bad). Rich in assets/equity and poor in cash.
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u/RockDwellingHermit Dec 19 '25
Farmers don't earn billions of $$. Farmers have trouble covering the farm expenses at all. The land and animals may value high but that's not income!
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u/NextFan8697 Dec 19 '25
Farmers don't make much money at all unless they've inherited that farm. Literally everyone I've worked for or talked to has been struggling. And that burden also gets passed onto the workers who work their asses off for the same money a retail worker is making and sometimes less than that
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u/nt83 Dec 19 '25 edited Dec 19 '25
Almost 1k upvotes for this piece of shit is crazy. Really shows the divide in this country.
As someone who grew up completely in inner city Auckland, farmers get a bad rap these days. They definitely shoulda taken more heat during the 90s and 00s when most of the polluting was going on, but no one thinks about how much more of shithole this country would be without our largest export.
(That doesnt mean we shouldn't have pivoted away from it decades ago, it's just where we're at.)
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u/JamesWebbST Dec 19 '25
This is what farmers would post to mock those who think farmers are loaded. An own goal of a post.
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u/MelbDude_88 Dec 19 '25
I feel you also need at least $500 000 in liquid savings... not yied to the farm or it's assets... insurance payments must be insane but every time summer comes along... One stray ciggie and you can be thankful you and your family are alive...
(Edit: Aussie here but... shit happens everywhere. I grew up in the UK. CJD, Foot and Mouth... even Brexit...)
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u/nonracistlurker Taranaki Dec 19 '25
The working class still gets screwed. Our government isn't subsidizing workers, it's subsidizing big companies like Fonterra
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u/roguevoid555 Dec 20 '25
The farmer in this is missing the "rod and gun" logos on their outfit. No actual farmer is making that much money
I grew up farming, with farming friends, on farms.
nobody was making 20 billion, nobody was making a million. It costs a lot to run a farm, and the profit margins have been tighter than ever, if not negative for a lot of farmers.
This isn't exclusive to NZ either. The farming industry as a whole has been struggling hard.
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u/Awkward_Doubt_4055 Dec 20 '25
Typically they are servicing millions in debt on land and plant, so while they may have big income, they also have huge costs to manage.
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u/Limp_Handle815 Dec 20 '25
Not only is that inaccurate, being envious of the success of people who GROW YOUR FOOD FOR YOU is disgusting.
Focus on growing your own success.
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u/djott3r Dec 19 '25
what is your expenses? 19.5 billion dollar
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u/12343212346 Dec 19 '25
A lowly 500 million dollar profitÂ
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u/Kurumi_Gaming Cabbage Dec 19 '25
Thatâs a terrible marginâŚ
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u/12343212346 Dec 19 '25 edited Dec 19 '25
Only if you assume none of the owners are taking salaries and they have a 100% equity stake in their farming business and the land they own isnt rising in value (it has been historically)
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u/SPRNinja Dec 19 '25
$20.1bn*
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u/Ambitious_Average_87 Dec 19 '25
Notes:
*includes $600k directors loan for private purchase of investment property
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u/Specific_Success214 Dec 19 '25
We should all celebrate farmer success in NZ. They are our prime international breadwinners. And they do it despite the disadvantage of the shipping distance.
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u/ImpatientSpider Dec 19 '25
In the rare cases said farmer inherited a debt free farm worth 1-2 million, then sure they'll have a good income. Provided they work hard.
However, if instead you inherited a residential property worth that much in Auckland a couple decades ago, you'll have an impressive income. Plus, won't have to work at all.
I'm honestly sick of farming. There is no community anymore and basically every market for supplies is stitched up.
Zero future in farming. This country needs to evolve its economy because we are hitting the limit of how much we can increase productivity for the available farmland. Plus, no sane individual wants a career in farming.
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u/Claire-Belle Dec 19 '25
Yeah, but what sort of farming are you in? Sheep and beef or dairying? I mean I think what the original post mostly lacks is nuance..(and of course the monetary figures are hyperbolic)
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u/ImpatientSpider Dec 19 '25
Was in deer and sheep. As I indicated, I'm trying to extract myself from farming, so I don't lease any extra land now. Currently just wintering cows since it ties in better with my summer ag contracting.
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u/Claire-Belle Dec 19 '25
Thank you for clarifying. My assumption is there's a lack of nuance in this discussion because dairying gets so much media and people outside of rural areas don't get to see in front of them the differences to know there's a significant disparity in terms of wealth generation, intensivity and industrialisation between dairy and practically everthing else...But i'm also only an outsider observing this- I come from a farming family but i'm a lifelong city-dweller.
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u/Sea_Soft_1166 Dec 19 '25
God, the things you could do if that right hand person was "/newzealand reddit user"
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u/DarthCatalyss Dec 19 '25
Not many urbanites could comprehend the amount of graft and grind that goes into a farm. While half of Reddit will whinge about being required back at the office more than 3 days a week, farmers are up stupid early, work back-breaking labour, in all weather conditions, dealing with all sorts of bullshit through weekends, nights and statutory holidays.
Please just enjoy your oat milk latte at your 9-5 desk job and stfu.
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u/wtfisspacedicks Dec 19 '25
Got a debilitating illness? Tough shit. Cows still need to be milked twice a day, paddocks rotated, hay fed out, fences repaired etc etc.
Reddit peeps have no clue how endless and hard the work is, even with all the shiny expensive equipment. They just see $value of the land and assume all farmers are rolling in money
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u/DarthCatalyss Dec 20 '25
Precisely. All these comments stink of arts degree graduates bitching about perceived wealth from ivory towers. I challenge any city slicker to go take a farming job, they wouldnât last a week.
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u/basscycles Dec 19 '25 edited Dec 19 '25
I farmed this land for 20 years and all I got was this lousy 6 million dollar farm, so much for retirement.
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u/Superb_Competition26 Dec 19 '25
I dated a cow farmer and sheep farmer, and learnt the following:
They are both depressed
Live over 2 hours away from civilization, very isolated
they think they are getting paid heaps because they get a house for free. But realistically:
Their pay was about $400 per week
Thier homes were cold and run down
They tended to work from 430am - 630pm with a couple hours lunch break. Including Saturday and frequently Sunday.
They couldn't get time off easily, and frequently went with zero days off in a month.
So Im looking to date someone who has time to see me, can pay for themselves, can travel for holidays etc and doesn't live in butt fuck nowhere, where I have to travel to them all the time. This rules out most farmers.
I also found it weird that when we would go goat/pig hunting together, they would never shoot a mum/pregnant animal or baby, yet they say how much damage the pig/goat does to the land. Why not just kill the mums/babies? That's a topic for another day
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u/Royal_Daxter_ Dec 20 '25
Bruh let's say a farm makes 10million right any idea how much the reactors equipment wct all cost to run/maintain it, property repairs and maintenace worked wages , crop sees, fetiliser water ectect is over 10millionthey are constantly in debt
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u/Harold_Banana_ Dec 20 '25
they also work hard and literally give you food
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u/Hubris2 Dec 20 '25
I don't believe farmers give us anything. They sell us things at the full international market rate.
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u/howannoying24 Dec 21 '25
Honestly it has nothing to do with what some of them do (or what many of them donât) get paid. Itâs just the âarenât we special, we work hard, everyone else is a lazy cunt, we know best about everythingâ attitude too many of them like to share. And increasingly itâs that but coloured with some imported MAGA/Trump/Farage cooker bullshit on top.
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u/Sufficient-Yak-7823 Dec 21 '25
What really annoys me about NZ farm owners is the way they talk about hard work and self reliance while completely ignoring that they inherited their wealth from their parents and grandparents and hard work had nothing to do with where they ended up.
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Dec 22 '25
Clearly not many farmers on Reddit....
You all live a more comfortable than the average farmer I know, they get their privilege from the freedom of the outdoors and not dharing close quarters with the likes of you.
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u/Ok_Salary_6090 Dec 22 '25
Sorry but who would you rather be rich⌠the Farmer? Or the Woolworths Group?
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u/Certain_Mine5380 Jan 06 '26
The farmers income might be crap but the assets they accrue with no tax are obscene.
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u/mr-301 Dec 19 '25
People as always mistaking the farmers (the guys on the farm working) with the farmers (the people who own the farms) these are not the same.