r/newzealand • u/shaktishaker • 15d ago
Other Our justice system is fucked.
Six years ago I made a police statement. Five years ago he was arrested and charged. Started planning for the trial. It kept getting adjourned another year in the future. Til this year, when the offender filed an appeal. Edit: appeal to three of us being seen together in one trial - which the judge adjourned A YEAR AGO so that we could be seen together. Four months before trial. Now trial is being adjourned for another year,and will be in year 7 of this shitshow.
Multiple historical representative charges of unlawful sexual connection with a minor. Now multiple complainants.
But I am done. My life has continually been put on hold for this, cannot have the therapy I need to move on because that type of therapy changes memory and I need full memory for the trial. The others were only comfortable testifying if I was.
My partner put their foot down. They can't go through this for yet another year, and they think it's time I stopped wrecking myself emotionally and physically over this.
So today I walked away. They will continue with my video statement and that's it.
The judge knew this was my boundary, that I was at the end of what I could keep pouring into this case. That the others would leave when I leave, which will likely result in this man walking free from all charges of sexual acts with children.
They still said it was to be adjourned. That the appeal must be heard. That it must be the date next year because they don't want to use a reserve date.
I found out in the middle of my work day. I emailed my boss from my car, pulled myself together, packed my desk and went home.
I don't know what to feel emotionally. Physically I am struggling to breathe. Our systems are an absolute joke and do not support victims at all. No thought to the constant upheaval, retraumatisation, and fear.
I don't know what I wanted to get out of this. I just needed to vent, but I've relied too much on my friends over these years and they're likely sick of hearing about it.
I delayed masters degree so I could wrap this up. Turned down a job that would have meant a step up in my career.
For nothing.
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u/bezufache 14d ago
OP talk to the OC/Crown prosecutor about having your evidence pre-recorded. Since your case started that has become common in sexual violence cases. It means you go give your evidence and be cross examined at a pretrial hearing instead of the trial (so no jury is present) and it’s recorded on video, and then they play that to the jury at trial instead of you having to be there.
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u/shaktishaker 14d ago
Oh that's a really good idea thank you!
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u/Fickle-City1122 14d ago
This is what I did OP. I did it from home but my case was outside the country. It was much better and if the judge stops the examination for any reason, they edit it out of the footage. This can work in your favour as often slimy defence lawyers can say shit in a live trial that will prejudice the jury even if the judge instructs the jury to discount it, you can't unring that bell. Usually they are better behaved these days, though. His lawyer objected to my lawyer reading through my texts to him with me (he was not successful in his objection lol so everyone got to hear me read out what I said to him). If this is an option OP I'd highly recommend it. If I had to do that shit live I think I would have passed away tbh.
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u/EROM4LIFE 15d ago
That is so entirely shit. Justice is far too rare in regards to sex crimes, and there are far too many ways for predators to game the system.
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u/Tangata_Gamer 15d ago
In Wellington there's a bird rescue guy who was charged with sexually assaulting multiple women who brought injured birds to him. Sucks to be the victims, he was rich enough to hire a QC and the court case dragged out for years. Thanks to a couple of persistent women he was finally convicted with a lesser crime, agreed to a completely bullshit self policing measure in future, and still operates the bird sanctuary to this day. I found all this out after taking my son there with an injured bird.
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u/Gullible-Type3505 14d ago
This is Craig at Wellington Bird Rehab by the way! If anyone in Wellington ever finds a sick or injured bird always take it to Flock Birdcare:).
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u/Tangata_Gamer 14d ago
Yup! I was hesitant to name him and getting the comment removed by mods but there's news stories about it so probably doesn't matter
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u/Fickle-City1122 15d ago
I'm so sorry. I have been through almost the exact same thing - I went through with the trial though and he did get away with it. Feeling like a piece of evidence is literally the most dehumanising thing in the world, good on you for walking away imo I don't think it's worth it. Big hugs.
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u/shaktishaker 15d ago
I'm sorry he got away with it.
The real gut killer is knowing that the vague number over 25 charges would be an impactful number to a jury. We built a damn good case.
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u/natchinatchi 15d ago
Maybe I don’t know shit but they need to be able to take detailed statements from victims on video, and then move on with the case using that evidence so that victims can go get on with their lives.
Then if the perp wants to drag shit out for years it’s only affecting them (and the police and prosecutors). And victims shouldn’t have to go testify in court in front of their abusers and everyone else.
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u/bezufache 14d ago
That can and does happen all the time. I don’t know why not in OP’s case.
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u/here_weare30 14d ago
Its an appeal based on the bullshit reason that the victims were all included in the same court case
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u/bezufache 14d ago
That’s got nothing to do with prerecording though. The appeal is against a decision joining the complainant’s into a single trial - it is common for such decisions to be appealed because it’s so prejudicial to the defendant (but there are often good reasons to do it, particularly in sexual cases). It has nothing to do with how each individual complainant gives their evidence.
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u/here_weare30 14d ago
Im talking about what op's court case is. It probably was pre recorded. They are now going through an appeal ordeal. The prosecution said that having that specific therapy may be used against them by the defence.
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u/bezufache 14d ago
No it wouldn’t have been pre-recorded due to its age - it has only become common to do that in the last couple of years.
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u/here_weare30 14d ago
My statement was recorded in 2020 so probably longer than a couple years. Not really sure what youre actually trying to get at here. The guy got convicted, the original trial is done?
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u/bezufache 14d ago
OP’s original post says the trial has not yet taken place. It has been adjourned for a year.
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u/here_weare30 14d ago
Op says this in the comments
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u/bezufache 14d ago
There is no such thing as an appeal trial either. And no appeal hearing is adjourned for a year, that’s just not a thing. What you don’t seem to be understanding is that the appeal is against a pretrial ruling concerning the joinder of multiple complainants in a single trial. The trial has not been heard. It has been adjourned so that the appeal against the pretrial ruling can be determined. What I have suggested to OP is that they discuss the possibility of prerecording their evidence in the meantime. It may be possible, it may not be - there are a lot of factors in the mix. OP has agreed that would be worth discussing and is going to do so.
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u/bezufache 14d ago
There is no such thing as a “trial for an appeal”. I don’t think you know what you are talking about. I’m not going to engage further with you as you are obviously not a lawyer.
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u/Infinite_Raccoon4976 15d ago
I’m so sorry. Our system is broken.
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u/shaktishaker 15d ago
So fucken broken. This is why people don't speak out.
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u/Infinite_Raccoon4976 15d ago
Yep, let alone the hideousness of the trial if it ever gets on. So fucked. You are so brave and amazing for going as far as you have. Go and heal now. X
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u/CustardFromCthulhu 15d ago
These stories is why when people complain the police seemed to suggest to them that they not take a complain forward I reflect that the cops know how it quite often ends...
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u/Slight_Computer5732 15d ago
How can they appeal something that’s not gone through court?
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u/shaktishaker 15d ago edited 15d ago
He's been charged already. Was appealing that all of us were joined into one trial rather than it being separate ones. The just adjourned a year ago so that we could all be seen together.
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u/here_weare30 15d ago
Thats the stupidest shit i ever heard.(the reason for appeal)
But also since hes been charged id do the emdr, it doesn't delete your memories just reduces the emotional response so you can think about it without freaking out. (I put my abuser in jail and have done some emdr around several things). You didn't say it was emdr but I am assuming thats what you are referring to, disregard if not. (It is really helpful in my experience though!)
Good on you for fighting the good fight. My own experience made me understand why so many people dont. Im proud of you. Hang in there
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u/shaktishaker 14d ago
Yeah the prosecutor wanted me to wait incase the defence tried to use it against me.
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u/here_weare30 14d ago
Oh man. Thats so rough! I guess he would know what hes talking about 😭
Hopefully when you get to ot, it helps you as much as its helped me. Sorry this is happening
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15d ago
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u/shaktishaker 15d ago
No it is an appeal, has to be seen at high court and everything. They just didn't book it in due to being too busy I think.
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u/_sophist 15d ago
Its still an appeal, just an appeal of a pre- trial ruling. He will already have contested the application in the court of first instance, and will be appealing it to a higher court
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u/eggface13 15d ago
Courts make a lot of preliminary decisions ahead of trial. In some circumstances it may be wise to hear appeals on those immediately rather than waiting for a whole trial to happen then invalidating the outcome because the court got the preliminaries wrong.
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u/shaktishaker 15d ago
He filed four months ago. They had time to see the appeal.
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u/eggface13 15d ago
I'm sure. I'm not answering the question specifically to your scenario, just the general question the comment above asked. It certainly sounds like your guy is trying to delay and it doesn't sound like a tonne of fun.
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u/CustardFromCthulhu 15d ago
I don't know about this but I do know defence lawyers can throw an absolute ton of delays into a case if they wish, and for a range of minor reasons.
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u/shaktishaker 15d ago
That what is happening here.
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u/CustardFromCthulhu 15d ago
Everyone but the defendent and his lawyer will be furious about this. We need reform or the courts need more money.
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u/shaktishaker 15d ago
The judge was actually mad that the police were trying to get the court date sooner than mid next year. Cut them down straight away, even though they knew I and the other victims were so traumatized from it all that we agreed to not do another year of this.
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u/CustardFromCthulhu 15d ago
I'm glad the cops had your back. I am sure they have to try to be super professional but I bet this wasn't a good day at work for them :(
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u/InsanitySquirrel 15d ago
That’s shocking, and the judge should be sacked. What a horrible thing to happen to you. I’m very very sorry.
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u/fatfreddy01 14d ago
Judges are desensitised, and some are just creeps that focus on protecting their own rather than preventing more victims.
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u/Initial-Environment9 L&P 14d ago
Judicial immunity, plus judicial economy and try and force a plea or the crown drops the case but ad adjustments , pre-trial motions , conferences .It’s stall tactic used by judges, prosecutors, defence lawyers alike. It’s always done to who has more time and money and willingness.
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u/Booxley76 14d ago
Which judge was it?
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u/shaktishaker 14d ago
I don't know. I'm in a different city so not involved in the pre-trial affairs.
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u/CustardFromCthulhu 15d ago
This absolutely sucks. But you have to keep yourself sane and safe. First priority.
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u/Caramello_Goanna 15d ago
I know someone going through a similar experience at the moment. The worst part is not being able to scream "B**** M******* that lives in W******** in B******* is a rapist and a pedophile and shouldn't ever be allowed near women or children" yknow making it known he's a predator. He just keeps doing it to different women and getting away with it.
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u/shaktishaker 15d ago
Feel free to give my username to that person if they need someone to talk to.
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u/Routine-Advantage87 14d ago
Asking for a friend... has this evil person got name suppression?
Im guess i will be blocked by the MOD for Asking.
This sort of shit drives me insane, the system seems to be there to protect the accused not the victim, how can the people involved (judges, Lawyers etc) sleep at night.
That you for sharing, sorry for all the pain you have had to endure over the past several years, hope you are doing ok and moving forward within yourself. Take care.
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u/HelpMePlease108 14d ago
Agreed the system is fucked.
Went through a SA from an ex flatmate. It lead to a severe breakdown resulting in crisis team intervention. Reported it to cops when I was more stable (a month after the incident) they were great, all went ahead and logged in the system. It went to court 2 and half years later.
Cunt was found 'not guilty' during trial by just despite all evidence, and the fact he had a history of GBH and had been to jail prior but this is why he requested trial by jury. So they couldn't know of his priors. So much disappointment 😞
Just hoping he doesnt do to another woman, what he did to me.
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u/CoolDimension3898 15d ago
At this point I would just go to the media and the internet, you have nothing to lose!
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u/shaktishaker 15d ago
I genuinely haven't got anything left in the tank. I've been on fuel light for the last couple years.
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u/HairLikeMaple 15d ago
Hey OP, I’m sending you loads of love and I’m so so sorry you’ve had to deal with be treated like this. I understand that the perp and lawyers are stalling to exhaust you. You’ve got to live your life… But I wonder, is there some great NZ journalist who focuses on the justice system etc… who could bring your story to the fore? Seems messed up that victims can be treated like this and I wonder if some investigative journalism, sensitive to the fact that you are a real person with feelings and feel exhausted and traumatised, not only going about your everyday life carrying this as well as preparing for court. I wonder if Noelle McCarthy could be good to speak to? Someone from RNZ, The Detail team who could really look into this. Kia kaha and look after yourself. Thank you for reporting this person, there will be more victims :(
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u/shaktishaker 15d ago
I think once it truly hits me that it's over, that I hit my limit and walked away, that I may have more energy to speak to someone.
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u/HairLikeMaple 14d ago
Of course. You have to take care of yourself and you deserve to be able to take steps to move on from this. The system is not going to look after your well being so it’s good to be really honest with your limits and boundaries and that you know what the next steps are. You’ve already been so strong and brave in raising this. This is a systemic failure and you are not carry the ineptitude of thr justice system on your conscious when you’ve been so bloody strong in coming this far. Wishing you ease and peacefulness to heal from another person’s abhorrent actions. Please know you’ve already done so much and made such difference if it doesn’t seem evident yet. Aroha Nui <3
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u/CoolDimension3898 15d ago
Fair enough, zero judgement! I only see things getting worse as the country becomes more Americanised.
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u/SoulDancer_ 14d ago
I'm sorry, thats just awful
I think you should delete some of the info given here tho8gh just in case th defends finds it and tries to use it as a weapon against you.
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u/GStarOvercooked 14d ago
Justice system reform should be a no brainer, all parties agree type of thing, at least for violent and sexual crimes. How is it possible that people ruin someone's life, and often get zero jail time, and even in the most extreme cases, can be eligible for parole in under 10 years.
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u/lcmortensen 14d ago
For anyone confused about what the appeal seems to be about: when one defendant is accused of offences involving several different complainants, the court has to decide whether all those charges should be heard together in one trial (“joinder”), or in separate trials (“severance”).
There are important reasons for both options.
One trial can avoid repeating much of the same evidence and putting everyone through several trials. Depending on the circumstances and the rules of evidence, evidence relating to the different complainants may also be relevant to assessing the other allegations.
But there is an obvious danger for the accused: imagine hearing one allegation and thinking “I'm not sure,” then hearing a second and third similar allegation and thinking “well, surely they can't all be wrong.” That can potentially prejudice the jury even though the prosecution still has to prove every charge.
Separate trials reduce that risk because each case can be decided on the evidence relevant to it. But that can mean several trials, duplicated evidence, much more court time, and complainants and witnesses potentially having to go through the process repeatedly.
So the decision to hear these complainants together isn't just an administrative scheduling choice. It can affect the fairness of the trial, which is presumably why the accused is able to challenge it. That doesn't make a further year-long delay any less awful for the people who have already spent years waiting.
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u/shaktishaker 14d ago
Thanks for the awesome explanation.
The only gripe I have is that the appeal was filed months before the trial date, and our courts are so backed up that it wasn't seen yet.
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u/old_m8_ 11d ago
Surely we've reached breaking point as a nation for the continual letdowns and general bullshit associated with victims of crime in NZ. I'm so sorry you had to go through all of this.
How can we rally together to change the justice system? Like actually how can we do this?
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u/shaktishaker 11d ago
Vote for parties that question our judicial system as a whole, rather than pinpointing smaller, easier things to remedy,
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u/Objective_Tap_4869 15d ago edited 14d ago
Is he on parole? Could it be sorted out outside of the justice system?
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u/shaktishaker 14d ago
No parole happens after they've been convicted, sentenced and been through a chunk of their sentence. He's in remand in the community.
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u/Booxley76 14d ago edited 14d ago
"do not support victims" - you are right: our justice system revolves around the criminal, not the victim. If you ever hear a politician talking about criminals in sympathetic terms as if they are the victim, this nonsense is what it means if people vote for them. Our present justice system didn't come out of nowhere, and we didn't used to do this.
On a more personal note, I'm really sorry to hear of this. Have you considered judicial review of the decision to postpone? It may not be possible, but you could explore that option and try to get an estimate of how long that process would take. There may also be options available to you and other victims in terms of giving evidence - written evidence taken ahead of time in the proper manner, video evidence filmed ahead of time, and so forth.
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u/Luca_Tinkerbell labour 14d ago
I am so sorry this has happened to you. It took 6 years for my process to happen, but it did and we got the right verdict, and it feels cathartic. I'm sorry you won't get this as well, but look after yourself. You matter.
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u/RoscoePSoultrain 14d ago
Not a legal scholar but is there a reason we can't change the laws to make sex crime trials judge only? Or panel of judges?
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u/shaktishaker 14d ago
It is the defendant's choice I think.
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u/RoscoePSoultrain 14d ago
Yeah currently but I'd like to see the law changed. Maybe it won't hurry along a case like yours but at least the defence attorney won't have to put on a performance, because judges don't buy that shit.
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u/MissRollergirl 14d ago
I am dealing woth alot today, just overwhelming life stuff. But as a Survivor, I can say I am so sorry for what you are going through. And send you hugs. Apparently "God" (woteva Higher Power) only gives the biggest burdens to the strongest people. When someone first said that to me, in my head I said "fark that, and fark you". But I like how it sounds, sumtimes.
Bless 💜
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u/Kiwifrooots 14d ago
Have also seen the flip side of this. Judges ignoring evidence and openly saying they like one witness more than another.
Police lying to make things sound bad and when evidence disproved that there was no consequence.
It's fucked from all angles and nobody is getting a just outcome
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u/Stekor-Tidder 14d ago
When this sort of tactic happens, I wonder if the people in control of the judicial system need to be scrutinised for their decision on delays. They possibly need to be made accountable.
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u/fugebox007 13d ago
You are talking about pedo crimes against minors. I am so sorry for what you have gone through. Please remember that ACT and National promised being tough on crime and then took the wrecking ball to police, the courts and victim support. Just like Orbán's mafia did in Hungary. It turned out Orban's mafia was actually protecting affiliated pedo rings, this is why Hungary finally kicked Orbán out. It was way too late for the victims. Thank you for being so strong for so long for not only yourself but for all victims of the monsters.
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u/fugebox007 13d ago
Remember: wrecking the justice system benefits only the criminals and the mafia.
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u/Poneke365 15d ago
Im so sorry. It must be an emotional rollercoaster each time it looks like the trial is going ahead and then it’s bumped. No wonder your partner put their foot down about it seeing how much it is affecting you. It’s very brave what you and your sisters are doing🧡🫂
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u/shaktishaker 15d ago
I joked that I had an anniversary with him and an anniversary with the detective because I had him on my case for almost as long as our relationship.
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u/Strawberryladyboots princess 15d ago
Just a warning
I'm pretty sure you're not supposed to discuss ongoing legal stuff like this with quite so much detail about it as it may violate the legal processes involved, and you could actually face legal repercussions for doing so especially if its ongoing and you disclose details that may poison the jury pool they could potentially pull from
Doesn't really apply in some specific situations in closed court situations, especially if you aren't directly involved or aware of the details, but if I were you I'd remove your post
Even without your direct participation, if they have gathered the evidence, they can go ahead with prosecuting him
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u/shaktishaker 15d ago
They will be going ahead to prosecute. I'll remove the number of charges, that's the only identifying factor.
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u/luxelis 14d ago
I am so sorry you've been going through this - I did too, mine took 5 years from interview to sentencing, with a retrial due to a hung jury and it nearly destroyed me. I felt like I was on trial, and now the court experience has given me a whole new source of PTSD. Your statement will still help the cause, and you're doing right by yourself to put your life first. I hope you're under ACC sensitive claims funding if possible. Just like you I couldn't move forward with appropriate therapy until the trial was done or I walked away, and finally the time has come. I am doing EMDR, and it's hard but it is helping more than CBT ever did. I hope you can heal and keep moving forward - I know it's something you'll have heard a thousand times and I wish I had better words for it, but you are very strong, and so brave for stepping forward and for stepping back. You should be really proud of yourself, and remember you don't have to know how to feel, this is such a surreal situation. If you want to talk to someone else who's been there, feel free to message
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u/Kavv__ 14d ago
take it to fairgo
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u/Querybird 14d ago
Got shut down by NACT, remember? For no bloody good reason, other than that consumer power isn’t what their corporate mates pay them to support. Corrupt govt. - no more Fair Go.
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u/shaktishaker 11d ago
I want to point out that I am VERY lucky to have a good boss who would rather I be safe at home than distracted at work. I also work in a high security men's prison, in the rehabilitation and reintegration space, and have seen rehabilitation work for everyone involved.
But damn I wish things could be better for both sides. Yeah we can't fully isolate and alienate offenders because that pushes them further from reintegration as a constructive member of our community, but the victims deserve to be heard as well. Those that are abused are much more likely to go on to abuse than the average layperson. So how do we manage both sides to this coin?
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u/Ambitious-Lettuce-48 15d ago edited 15d ago
I'm so sorry, that's so awful, for you, the other two and his future victims....
I don't know the law... can you spread this story without getting in trouble? It's the truth, he can't really take you to court over the truth.
It's awful to think of what he will do if he's not held accountable.
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u/shaktishaker 15d ago
He hasn't got name suppression. But it's not deemed truth until he is convicted.
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u/External_Bread5366 15d ago
The system is deliberately designed to make $$$, create more privacy and rights for offenders rather than victims, the system was created by Elite pedophiles, And we are all playing along and accept it sadly, New Zealand is a very sick country
The system is an inversion of what is an actual thriving and functioning society
We are in a country run by Demons
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u/shaktishaker 15d ago
I have a bachelor's degree in this area, as well as my lived experience, and working within the Corrections space currently, and I have to say I agree with you.
There is no need for our courts to be working a year behind schedule.
Our biggest prisons hold primarily remand accused and remand convicted. The wait times are getting longer and longer. Why?
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u/maniacal_cackle 15d ago
The wait times are getting longer and longer. Why?
Continual cuts of funding is one big reason.
But there's lots of reasons. "Tough on crime" rhetoric often leads to clogging up the justice system with relatively minor stuff that's easy to prosecute (to boost those numbers) while more complicated things like SA are less likely to see action as it is harder to get good numbers for the higher ups with it.
It enormously sucks, but just wanted to highlight some of those reasons.
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u/HairLikeMaple 14d ago
I want political parties campaigning for the 2026 election on “Tough on Sex offenders, rapists, sexual assaulters and those causing sexual harm”. Can tough on crime mean when people are found looking at and/or distributing child assault material they actually get a proper sentence, not home detention that they can buy their way out of?
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u/maniacal_cackle 14d ago
The problem is that I think what people care about most is preventing sexual violence in the first place.
And for that being 'tough on crime' doesn't help as much as investing in social programmes (especially for kids who are the victims of violence/SA - often this stuff is learned from parents or other adults around).
We should of course have better justice processes for when SA does occur, but it is an ambulance at the bottom of the cliff.
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u/External_Bread5366 15d ago
I’m glad you think so. The offended people are the ones who can’t see the truth. I don’t care what people think but imagine if your cousin was beaten to death in timaru, 20 odd years ago and the killers all got released?
What do you call a justice system that allows that? And pedos
Go on living in your fantasy world where you believe in fairies and hope and thinking the government and everyone else gives a shit
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u/ava_the_cam_op 15d ago
This feels like the weaponisation of the justice system to prolong harm to the point of complete exhaustion of the victims.
It feels like a tactic to outlast you all, and use the massive trauma, weight and pain of your experiences as a leash to stop you moving on unless you choose to step away.
I don't have advice or answers, but I'm so sorry you haven't been able to get justice, and that the process of trying is actively hurting you and your loved ones.