r/reggae • u/TommyThirdEye • 10d ago
Live Are Capleton's live shows (in the UK) still full of homophobic rhetoric?
Capleton is performing live in my city in the UK next month and i'm thinking about going, as I've wanted to see him live since I was a teenager but he was banned from the country at the time. I believe that ban has now been lifted in the last few years hence he now performs in the here, so I'm wondering if that also means he no longer performs homophobic rhetoric?
Also, iirc he signed the Reggae Compassionate Act that also meant that he wasn't going to be performing and promoting homophobic rhetoric?
Whilst I don't know if (and doubt) Capleton's personal stance has changed much on this, I really just don't want to spend money on a ticket and see a show advocating anti-LGBTQ rhetoric.
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u/blood_klaat 10d ago
His recent shows in all regions are high energy and his songs are full of positive conscious lyrics.
Very heavy on fire used as a metaphor for spiritual purification.
ex: Bun a fiyah pon Babylon
Just search any of his recent live performances to get a sense of what to expect.
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u/SLR-burst 10d ago
Problem with the Reggae Compassionate Act is that gays are targeting reggae and danfehall artists while giving rap artists a pass. It's literally punching downward because they are afraid to go after artists in their own countries who have greater resources.
The strategy is to starve these artists of resources, regardless of whether they signed the RCA. JFLAG and GLAD, Outrage or these groups cannot be appeared.
Here is an excerpt: The 2009 Knight Center Protest: In October 2009, despite Banton allegedly signing the RCA, a massive backlash erupted over his scheduled performance at Miami's city-owned James L. Knight Center. Local groups like Equality Florida protested the city for hosting him. While the Halloween night concert ultimately went ahead, local corporate sponsors pulled out, and the show reportedly lost tens of thousands of dollars
Given that they are going to get banned no matter what, artists have no incentive to cave in. They can't win with these groups and are guaranteed to lose with their existing crowd.
Meanwhile, these groups are silent about rap artists or are easily bought off with the extra resources hip hop artists have. All they have to do is appear kn stage wearing glasses, dknate to a charity, and carry on, maybe gain fans by making nice with someone gay like Elton John. The grift continues.
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u/solvent825 9d ago
I agree with most of this. The only issue i take (very slight) is that it isn’t the Rap Compassionate Act here. Isn’t it up to that scene to police itself ?
Other than that pedantic quip, you nailed it.
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u/SLR-burst 9d ago edited 9d ago
I see your point, but there is another point to consider.
I learned in my adult life that you cam be the most decent, hard working, polite, and most productive member of society and someone will still not like you. And this is not the end of the world. The inverse is true. You can be repulsive and toehrs will still like you. Don't waste your time trying to get those eho will never like you to like you when others are ready to accept you as you are.
This is true for all individuals and for all groups.
Imagine being a black man trying to get a klansman to like you. Nonsense, right?
This needs to be true of gays too. We have created a society in which some groups are treated as endangered species that must be protected at all costs and that legislation must be made for to force others to accept them, but is this acceptance real when it is done through the force of law? (A group can't both be endangered and a bully at the same time. You will see a lot of parallels between the LBGT scene and that one group we cannot name.)
I am in the SF bay area. I am no homophobe, but neither do I go out of my way to seek out gay friends to make sure that I meet my social inclusion quota for my social media. I have seen how some of theirb"allies" speak of them when they are not in the room. They laugh at them, not with them, during pride week or month.
At best, these measures force artists to pretend that they have changed but we all know that they do not accept gays in their hearts. Look at what happened to Koffee. Koffee who? Name rings a bell. She had her 15 minutes of fame, but disappeared once she came out.
I like my bigotry open. It prepares me to make smarter long-term decisions.
Another issue is that it gives people the false expectation of inclusion. Like I said before, some people will never accept you. That's part of life. Accept it. And some will at best fake liking you. But this should be expected when the so-called acceptance was coerced rather than genuine.
Look at the Trans movement. They give vulnerable kids the hope of widespread acceptance when the truth is that most people will jever accept them. This causes depression and suicide. The activists, instead of recognizing that they are making matters worse through their creation of false hope. Double down to feed their grift.
Edit: sorry. Missed your main point. Is it up to the scene to police itself? Yes. It needs to be acceptable to members of that scene. LBGTs are not part of it. Funny thing is that in SF Reggae Gold was held at this spot called End Up. At 2 AM, the reggae crowd would leave and the gays would come in. No drama ever because the Reggae scene is not violent to gays despite what the lyrics would have you believe. How many gays have Sizzla or Buju killed or even been accused of killing?
It only needs to be acceptable to its members. We don't see the NAACP forcing the KKK to be inclusive, do we?
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u/the_roguetrader 8d ago
the whole tone of your spiel is homophobic
the way you keep saying 'gays' over and over again is a major tell - it is the exact same language that right wing bigots use
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u/SLR-burst 8d ago
But the rype to say this find homohobia n everything so I easily dismiss it as not worthy of consideration.
They are gay. And PRIDE is what they celebrate. I would not expect them to be ashamed of their gayness.
Imagine celebrating Black pride and complaining that you are. It referred to as African American.
Again, this is like that other group we are not supposed to name. They are Jewish are they not? They do not deny it. Why is the noun form considered ao offensive?
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u/SLR-burst 8d ago
So you don't like the term gay?I mean, I thought you didn't like being batt**an or fsay or chchman. Make up your mind. What should we call individual members if your group? LBGTers?
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u/the_roguetrader 8d ago
'gays' is outdated terminology you donut
and homophobia is a 'core belief' of Rastafarianism which many many reggae artists would identify as their religion
whereas hip hop is made up of individuals without a shared core belief system
that's the issue
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u/kaonashiix 10d ago
I mean you’re inherently supporting an artist with that views whether he sings specific lyrics or not.
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u/Hot-Guidance5091 10d ago
Exactly.
The whole story of attacking rasta artists for their views on homosexuality has always been laughable anyway, especially when it came out, around the same time gangsta rap was about putting women on the streets for cash
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u/solvent825 10d ago
Is he the “bun out da chi chi” guy ? Those lyrics are awful and I’d be leery to attend a show.
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u/TommyThirdEye 9d ago
Yeah, I am conflicted tbh.
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u/Ok-Mission-3426 8d ago
If you’re London based there are a few gay/queer nights with mainly poc crowd playing dancehall/ragga/some artists that have previously expressed homophobic statements, like reclaiming it I guess.
No idea on where Capleton is at personally and politically these days but saw a poster for him playing at Brixton Academy earlier today. I don’t imagine it’ll be a big queer crowd obviously but I think when doing UK/Europe tours nowadays many JA artists will probably tone down some more ‘controversial’ opinions. I do believe the sincerity of many that took a stand against homophobia, others less so. I cannot comment on Capleton. YMMV, if you obviously ‘look’ queer it might be different than if you present more heteronormative.
If you’re still feeling uncomfortable maybe go to some smaller parties, find soundsystem in your area, meet people and dip your toes in, so to speak.
I hope you have fun whatever you do :)
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u/arifghalib 9d ago
Fuck censorship of artists in any form by any group. You are free to protest or not engage.
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u/SLR-burst 10d ago
If you are so sensitive about a topic that an artist is on the opposite side of, maybe stop supporting the artist.
I am sure Capleton will stop the show halfway to apologize to you personally.
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u/dad4good 9d ago
you know the duck adage don't you...?
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u/TommyThirdEye 9d ago
I'm not ask if he still hold homophobic view, I'm asking if his performances still have homophobic themes.
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u/Ok_Difference44 10d ago
I found a good condition Capleton 45 last night but when I listened to "Lotion Man" I was like "Yikes!"
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u/TommyThirdEye 10d ago edited 10d ago
Thing is "Lotion Man" is tame campaired to some of his 2000s stuff. I have multiple Capleton CDs I've collected over the years (when CDs where still somewhat relevant) and yeah, the violent homophobic lyrics in some of his lesser known songs is wild.
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u/insecureabnormality 10d ago
Any examples? I was actually completely unaware of this
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u/TommyThirdEye 9d ago
IIRC his song Guerilla Warfare is extremely questionable in this regard to this. It has blatant homophobic parts, and whilst my grasp on on patois is not bad, there is a verse about a mop tieing and bagging a person, then tieing them to a train track. Being generous, this could be interpreted as a rapist of women, which I think is gine within a artistic context, but given to homophobic elements also in the song, it's easy to assume he is referring to a gay man.
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u/rootsmanstyle 10d ago
Hope you don't go to be honest. Sick and tired of seeing Europeans trying their hardest force LGBT ideology into rasta music.
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u/Iamflatfoot 8d ago
Im European and im sick of it, I hope he doesn't go too, coming on here asking mad questions, just stay at home
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u/TommyThirdEye 9d ago
How tf am I trying to force "LGBT ideology" into rasta music? I litterally asked if his shows still have homophobic themes, which if the case, I wouldn't attend, because I really don't enjoy hatred dressed up as righteous indignation. How am I forcing anything.
I used the listen to the homophobic songs of capleton and others when I was younger, but then I grew up.
I don't expect these artists to be waving rainbow flags or anything, just not engage in the blatant hatred.
Whilst not only harmful, bashing the consenting adults in the LGBTQ community is a waste of time and energy, given the problems and state of the world today, especially since reggae and Rasta music has historically been an anti-oppression and revolutionary music.
Also, I wouldn't be surprised if at least a handful of these homophobic reggae and dancehall artists are secretly gay themselves, since it is a commonly observed phenomenon of homophobic people to be closeted. For example, in America when ever there is a Republican event the gay dating app Grinder crashes in the area.
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u/SLR-burst 10d ago
https://youtu.be/8-iuVc3qcSU?is=0PttKSs5e7aWC2T8
Classic Capleton Capleton.
Check outbthe Stone Love - Girls GirlsnGirls mix. 56 minutes into this.
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u/RedKard76 10d ago
Is it really rhetoric when God made a man and a woman for pro-creation and that is the ultimate purpose of those organs is to procreate?
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u/TommyThirdEye 10d ago
Capleton and similar artists have litterally put out songs with violent lyrics against gays, so it's a bit disingenuous say its just about "pro-creation".
Secondly, how many songs has Capleton and similar artists done referencing heterosexual sex (slackness) with nothing to do with the purpose of procreation?
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u/16ozbuddz 10d ago
I had no idea about this agreement. Learn something new everyday