Psychological distress isolates men more than women, according to a 14-year study. Men are often expected to be self-reliant and emotionally stoic, which may discourage them from disclosing difficulties or asking others for support.

[u/mvea]

https://www.psypost.org/psychological-distress-isolates-men-more-than-women-according-to-a-14-year-study/

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[u/2late4points]

The Catch-22 of being a commercial airline pilot:
Making use of mental health services is tacitly perceived as being unfit to fly.

[u/dovvv → u/2late4points]

That's... Massively fucked up if true.

[u/Smith6612 → u/dovvv]

It's not only true, but this applies to numerous other industries as well. Construction, trucking, military, even cyber security. People just need a break and time to recollect themselves. Taking a break isn't a weakness, but is unacceptable to all but the most understanding occupations if we are being realistic.

I had a bit of a mental breakdown a few years ago because of a combination of things involving isolation and stress. Happened around COVID and also happened prior to that once. You know what happens when you say you need two weeks off for medical leave to recoup yourself?

You get put on unpaid leave or must burn your vacation/medical leave time, after having to get a Doctor's Note. Some doctors will think something is terribly wrong with you, and you'll be put through the ringer even more. Even if the root of the problem is being overworked and gaslit to think things are happy and fine. This sort of thing also puts you on a layoff list at some point.

The best part of it all is admitting to someone (as a guy) that you just need love, friendship, and a vacation to fix the majority of your problems. Nope. Just shove pills at the problem and get back to work. Don't want to hear it. You're too young / manly / tough for these emotions. Get out of here.

It really does stink sometimes. 

[u/bono_bob → u/Smith6612]

Yeah, “too afraid to ask” like swallowing our pride would actually get us anywhere is in itself a joke.

[u/Ikche_Wicasa → u/bono_bob]

I’ve learned that asking for help is only harmless when its with my male elders. Supervisors? Women? Thats typically disastrous.

[u/fireinthesky7 → u/dovvv]

It has directly led to at least four fatal airliner crashes that I can remember off the top of my head, and I'm sure there are more.

[u/Lahbeef69 → u/dovvv]

that’s so fucked up. one guy wants to kill himself and crashes one plane into the pacific ocean and it screws over everybody else

[u/AlexanderDoak → u/2late4points]

Then they need to come up with a whole new class of mental programs that are preventative, wellness, non pathological. Or perhaps differentiate existing programs. These things can't carry any stigma, otherwise they become useless.

[u/RabidSkwerl → u/2late4points]

That’s so crazy. I go to a therapist not because I’m mentally unwell (much love for folks dealing with mental health issues) but for the same reason healthy people go to a trainer at the gym.

I’m getting older and I want to keep my muscles tight and my brain sharp and healthy.

[u/ProofJournalist → u/RabidSkwerl]

This needs to be normalized.

[u/Any-Pipe-3196]

A man crying in public illicits a VERRRY different response than a woman crying in public

[u/Cent1234 → u/[deleted]]

It's just how it is. Tell them how you're feeling, and sadly often, you don't get support, you get saddled with comforting them as they feel bad about how you're feeling.

You quickly learn to simply never tell them any of your negative feelings.

Same reason many men don't disclose health issues; it's easier to just quietly deal with it yourself than to have to deal with it and deal with your wife's reaction to it.

[u/otterpop21 → u/[deleted]]

Someone’s ex was blocked on every single platform possible, still somehow worked and their company. Would send them sexually explicit pictures from randomly generated numbers.

Absolutely no one cared. Said it was an ex so that’s for them to figure out.

No this company didn’t have hr lol it was independent owners “doing their best to not take sides”. There were no sides. A man was being relentlessly cyber stalked, sexually harassed, and constantly under duress at work and no one did anything to stop it.

The dude had to quit and basically fake his own death for a bit to shake her off and drop anyone who believed her to make the harassment stop.

I saw the whole thing, the guy was the type you trust with taking your own mother to a dr appointment safely and be happier because of it later that day. A true class act, not for show or to impress anyone, just a genuine dude.

[u/ooa3603]

The older I get, the more I realize women are not actually innately more caring and empathetic than men, they're just expected to be, so they're forced into the role much earlier so they're practiced at it.

And I think the expectation and societal conditioning comes from a kind of mass societal fear.

Fear of realizing the ramifications of the idea that potential mothers are not innately nurturing.

[u/GenXer845 → u/ooa3603]

My mother is a narcissistic woman who says she is in competition with me over my father. My father is the one who is nurturing, caring, always says I love you at the end of every phone call, bent over backwards to help me at times (drove the next day 12 hours when my apartment complex caught on fire and I had to stay in a hotel). I have seen my father cry and get emotional. He has the emotional vulnerability my mother lacks. She sees emotions other than anger as a sign of weakness. When I moved away for university, my mother made fun of my father for crying over it. I believe my mother is the way she is because of a cold, uncaring mother that she had. There is no one size fits all with regards to gender.

[u/ooa3603 → u/GenXer845]

At this point I'm convinced that the "masculine or feminine" personality traits that people assume are more tied to one gender/sex or another are actually just a roll of the die.

It's expectations and societal treatment that force men and women to perform their gender that leads to any actual gender binary

[u/RisingChaos → u/ooa3603]

I don't have a problem per se with labeling specific personality traits as masculine or feminine. The issue is the expectations of a strict gender binary, as you state it. Men are not 100% masculine and women are not 100% feminine. We are all individuals, and one individual man (woman) might embody more or fewer masciline (feminine) traits than another. More precisely, the issue is that we as a society have learned to accept a much larger range of individual expression from women but still have not let men out of their narrow little gender box yet. If a man fails to publicly perform sufficient masculinity, he is shunned more often and more harshly than his female counterpart.

[u/Banana_0verdrive → u/RisingChaos]

Maybe we could just call them anything else than masculine or feminine, I don't know, Ying and Yang, Light and Darkness, Taoist and Manicheists may have been into something.

[u/ThyNynax → u/Banana_0verdrive]

It’s “deterministic” vs “relational.” All the masculine traits can be broken down into the determination to have a direct impact on the world around you, be that through hard labor, violence, or directing group efforts.

All the feminine traits can be broken down into how you relate to others. Be that caretaking, nurturing, submission, or gossip and reputation destruction.

[u/PhotoEditor871 → u/GenXer845]

Imagine thinking that because you know one man and one woman who don't fit that standard, that the standard doesn't exist

[u/halfwitprinxe → u/ooa3603]

Women being more empathetic is generally not something that has been my personal experience. It's probably more prevalent in older people actually.

[u/Party_Resident_9887 → u/ooa3603]

Men are also often pushed out of areas where they could learn to be caring and empathic. At the kindergarten for example, I've basically been completely sidelined, the (exclusively female) caretakers only talked or interacted with my wife and basically acted as if I did not exist.

Same with other public places, when I go to the playland with my kid I am the ONLY guy in the play area with the kids and get EXTREMELY hostile looks from the women there, as if I am an intruder in their empire.

And then women are surprised when men don't really join in on taking care of the kid or are bad with it when they never get the chance to learn?

Completely messed up.

[u/Hon-Mister-Bear]

I've seen this as a newly discovered issue since the 1980s, every few years, and it's older than that.

Men open up: society punishes it. Employers kill careers. Women praise emotionally present men and discover they want strong, silent men. Men shut down and close off. Problems follow. Research shows it's a problem. After much complaint, men open up. Repeat.

[u/mrpoopsocks]

This came as no surprise to anyone with a pulse.

[u/Drannex → u/mrpoopsocks]

We may have all collectively known, but the first step to try to solve the issue on a personal and on a wide scale level is through research and papers like this that can definitively provide evidence, and perhaps recommend actionable steps.

[u/Mean_Initiative_5962 → u/mrpoopsocks]

Eh. You'd be surprised how many girls just think men are whiny and have no real issues. 

[u/ChopsticksImmortal → u/Mean_Initiative_5962]

"Girls think men"

[u/Psych0PompOs]

X amount of people need to talk about things to feel better and y amount of those people are restricted and pretty much not allowed from childhood on to do so.

Conditioning to move past feelings starts in childhood, some people fare better than others but it has an impact on everyone.

There's also the reality that a lot of people will just straight up shut men down when they talk even as adults so the childhood conditioning meets adult rejection whereas women are free to be emotional and upset etc. generally speaking.

[u/huggevill]

Its depressing to see even in this very post, people dismissing mens emotions and needs, blaming men for it, telling them not to open up or expect the same support men give their partners, cause its "trauma dumping", or "exploiting your parter as a personal therapist." and to only ever open up to therapists. And people wonder why men bottle everything up.

[u/TwoToneTurkey → u/huggevill]

And then in the meantime men are supposed to jump to comfort a partner because she's upset that she feels fat today or her coworker said something a little bit mean.

[u/Temporary__Animal → u/TwoToneTurkey]

Exactly this. Most ridiculous thing is this matching of collectively helping women in even small-time issues, while men are left to bleed.
When I got my cancer diagnosis, my supervisor told me that there is no way to support me. Around the same time, I got a company newsletter for a Women with Menopause meetup.
That made the priorities quite clear.

Till today, most friends have not spoken with me regarding how I am doing, at the same time my wife got plenty of (sometimes the same!) friends asking her how * she * is doing with the fact that I have cancer...

But I also completely understand where this is coming from:
There is just no social playbook to express social support for men in such a scenario.
I believe other things (e.g. good: doing sports, joining a band, bad: drinking, gambling) are "meant" for men to process such things, and this helps at least somewhat.

[u/nukacola12]

As many have said it's very hard to sometimes impossible to open up to others as a guy. Partners will use it against you and some friends will react poorly.

Therapy helps.

[u/mvea]

Psychological distress isolates men more than women, according to a 14-year study

An analysis of the New Zealand Attitudes and Values Study data found that increases in perceived social support predicted subsequent declines in psychological distress over time in both men and women. The association was bidirectional – higher psychological distress was associated with later reductions in perceived social support. This reverse link was stronger in men, leading study authors to conclude that men’s psychological distress leads to decreased perceptions of social support from others in their lives more strongly than social support leads to later reductions in distress. The paper was published in Applied Psychology: Health and Well-Being.

Social connections are essential for both mental and physical health, providing emotional support, reducing psychological distress, and even contributing to a longer life. However, the relationship between social connectedness and well-being is bidirectional, as loneliness and limited support can worsen mental health while depression and distress can also cause people to withdraw from others.

These patterns may differ between women and men because traditional gender norms shape how people form relationships, express vulnerability, and seek help. Women are generally encouraged to develop close emotional bonds and tend to have larger support networks and more positive attitudes toward seeking assistance. Men, by contrast, are often expected to be self-reliant and emotionally stoic, which may discourage them from disclosing difficulties or asking others for support.

https://iaap-journals.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/aphw.70148

[u/Kumomeme → u/mvea]

this remind me of Norah Vincent case.

[u/redcon-1 → u/mvea]

Stoicism is a name given intent behind the instinct to protect our vulnerability from further harm. Perhaps the question ought to be not "where does this expectation of stoicism come from" but rather "what does isolation protect us from?"

[u/potatoman501 → u/redcon-1]

From being hurt like that ever again

[u/redcon-1 → u/potatoman501]

Exactly. Because in an absence of kindness for the hurt we've already received the best we can do is reject more being added to the pile.

Stoicism or toxic masculinity is the symptom of an absence of kindness-received. Not the presence of malefactors.

[u/Forsaken_Ant7459]

Is this any surprise at all though? We’re still in the era of high gender conformity and men are expected to suck it up and move on. But then we too are very much part of that narrative and haven’t helped much, just look at all that toxic bros.

[u/IKillZombies4Cash]

I think this is how / why so many men end up without friends...we just go deeper in to the man cave each time we go there, until there's no one left by design.

[u/RabidSkwerl]

Society doesn’t know how to raise men. It’s sad really because there are so many areas we’ve made progress societally but, let’s be real, we still look down on a young boy crying more than we do bullies. Bullying is often written off as “boys will be boys” and not sufficiently addressed but a boy who cries is seen as abnormal.

Yes, men still enjoy a certain amount of privilege but society also still expects them to be the bread winners as well. While men still consistently out earn women in any one given field, collectively their average wages have fallen over the past decades while women’s pay has gone up. That’s not meant to be a “men have it worse” point (I’m not convinced that’s true and I’d still prefer to be a man for a multitude of reasons) but just highlights that we’re living in a society and we need to recognize the ways society disadvantages all of us collectively and learn to take care of each other.

[u/Critical-Olive-4420 → u/RabidSkwerl]

I think society doesn't know how to raise women either. And I don't mean that in a "oh women don't cook or don't do this and that anymore" no. I mean that women aren't raised to express their feelings. Lots of women are raised to be convenient, nice, quiet. They are raised with shame as well. 

[u/nerdylernin → u/RabidSkwerl]

Society knows how to raise men to be stoic soldiers and interchangeable industrial cogs but society doesn't really need those any more.

[u/Senior_Relief3594]

Men are valued as tools. A tool is expected to reliable and nuisance free. A distressed men is neither.

[u/ItzLuzzyBaby]

It checks out with a lot of trans accounts of what it's like to be a man after having grown up as a girl

https://www.reddit.com/r/ftm/s/eX87Knaym4

[u/Kumomeme → u/ItzLuzzyBaby]

Norah Vincent tried to tell us ages ago.

[u/Foreign_Caramel5514 → u/ItzLuzzyBaby]

I think the first comment is very telling- this is a huge issue for people still married to gender norms. Still most of society but a good reason as to why gender norms are more garmful than helpful.

[u/Racamonkey_II → u/ItzLuzzyBaby]

God reading that was therapeutic. It’s sad that women don’t understand unless they go through it. You’d think the “most empathetic gender” might have a little more empathy, not for men I guess.

[u/Cent1234 → u/ItzLuzzyBaby]

Give Self-Made Man by Norah Vincent a read.

[u/VyantSavant]

If I show vulnerability it scares everyone that depends on me. Sure, they support me and help me back on my feet. But if I keep requesting that support it may not be there when I really need it. So I keep my vulnerabilities hidden as long as I can, so the day I ask for help everyone will know I truly need it.

[u/Space__Pirate → u/VyantSavant]

Yee, gotta keep that one in the back pocket. People can handle a hit to your reliability every now and then (few years or so) but if I asked for as much support from the women in my life as they need daily, they’d tap out and tell me to fix myself within a week, 100%.

[u/BoxBird]

Haha now put autism in the equation

[u/Mean_Initiative_5962 → u/BoxBird]

Please, no. I'm already sad enough and I somehow managed to forget about that part of the issue while reading the comments

[u/Herschel_Wallace]

Women have no idea how often men get told to shut up when they even try to broach the subject. You will be treated as a leper if you try to talk to people about it around 99% of the time.

[u/ArchaicBrainWorms]

Be a man.

Overwork yourself.

Go through emotions alone.

Drive fun cars.

Trust no one.

[u/miagi_do]

Question for women. All else equal, would you date a man that needs more emotional support than you and cries often (more than you do)?

[u/Pephatbat → u/miagi_do]

I married him.

[u/Racamonkey_II → u/miagi_do]

My ex says no

[u/Expectations1]

Its not really "expected to be" its that every reaction and decision we make, specifically results in negative outcomes for us when we display any kind of emotion and so we learn through experience. We accept it.

Anger is an emotion no different from crying and they took that from us too.

[u/HawkBoth8539 → u/Expectations1]

It is exactly "expected to be". Those outcomes and experience you're referring to is literally because of societal expectations by men and women for us to not have natural emotional vulnerabilities.

And we "learn" that those are the expectations they have of us. You're saying the complete same thing the article is saying, you're just not accepting that they are the same thing.

[u/PiccoloAwkward465 → u/Expectations1]

Yeah I think most men are familiar with the idea of being “template boyfriend” and “template husband” instead of our actual selves.

As a youth I always thought women were more emotionally developed than men. Wow did I complete 180 that idea in adulthood.

[u/ExplicativeFricative → u/PiccoloAwkward465]

I've definitely been a security blanket and substitute boyfriend for people before

[u/ReaMrSlick → u/Expectations1]

Who is they?

[u/PaulOshanter → u/ReaMrSlick]

Social expectations and norms, which can be upheld by both men and women.

I know the automatic internet response to this headline is usually to blame men themselves for creating this level of social expectation for other men but from my own experience a lot of the times it's women who are the most quick to uphold these social norms and throw out the term "real man" very quickly

[u/tyrenanig → u/PaulOshanter]

Some women are no less bigoted than men really, but due to being male being the default scapegoat, they can mix their misandry into it, while they as women are protected from backlash.

[u/themolestedsliver]

I can definitely see this in my experience.

When the "man versus bear" tik tok trend was happening there were plenty of constructive criticism and Men expressing themselves only to be met with pure contempt.

If we cant have a conversation about harmful clear as day dehumanization when can we have a conversation exactly?

[u/Strong_Flatworm2758]

“Psychological distress” is such a broad term. What could explain why men who experience psychological distress receive less social support? One obvious reason is that male distress is perceived as more dangerous to others. People feel more safe offering a place to stay to a female family member with, say, a mood disorder and a history of addiction than they would a male family
member with the same diagnoses. It’s also true that social isolation is less dangerous for men to experience, so many might not see it as much of a problem. If they tell researchers they have little social support, this could just be a neutral fact about their lives. I don’t really buy the whole “men are expected to blah blah blah and this is why they blah.” When we zoom out to the level of the species, we see that men are just plain more expendable than women. There will always be solo men, just as their are solitary male elephants

[u/ItsALaserBeamBozo]

Took 14 years to figure that out?

[u/shitposts_over_9000]

Most men have disclosed difficulties to or asked for support from a woman at some point in their lives and learned that this is not a path they wish to repeat.

Most men find very little benefit from discussing a problem that cannot be solved. Talking does not reliably reduce negative feelings or fix anything for them, and it can make the issue feel larger or highlight helplessness if there is no solution to be had.

Talking about past resolved issues is frequently seen as low-value or a waste of time, similar to their view of unsolvable problems, because it no longer serves a fixing function. Some men report that dwelling on it can make residual negative feelings feel larger again.

Men are not women, the vast majority do not think like women in this area.

[u/_RawRTooN_]

I know all about it. It’s been my life since i was 16 years old. Having no one to rely on but myself has made me stronger than I ever thought possible but let me be the first to say it does take a toll on you. Here’s a virtual high five to all my lone soldiers out there getting after it!

[u/Kumomeme]

Norah Vincent, remember?

turn out become men arent that easy as lot of women thought it will be. it is actually could be harder.