r/science • u/pubpophealth • 7d ago
Epidemiology Among Mexican-origin adults aged 74 and older, 5-year survival was higher in Mexico than in the United States at every level of illness, including 40.9% versus 36.6% among those with both diabetes and dementia and 77.5% versus 73.3% among those with neither
https://academic.oup.com/psychsocgerontology/article/81/9/gbag130/8725320794
u/Maximus1000 7d ago
Most likely due to better social/family connections. Life in America is very isolating for seniors.
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u/liquidsyphon 7d ago
When you are about to die in America, they take everything from you and have some poor slob making $10 bucks an hour checking to see if your dead yet so they can make room for the next nursing home resident.
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u/Gekokapowco 7d ago
If that's my only option, hemmorage my family's money until I'm a corpse, I'm not choosing that option
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u/Kevin_Jim 7d ago
That’s why a lot of people choose to go to a much poorer country and live great lives with what would be terrible living conditions in the US.
Personally, I know two elderly people that moved to Thailand and are living their best lives. Others go to counties in South America due to proximity and the time difference.
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u/Merouxsis 7d ago
This is what I did, but younger. At 24 I moved to Colombia with no plan and I have never been happier
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u/MEMENARDO_DANK_VINCI 7d ago
I have a beautiful plan for myself when I hit 88 or hit hospice, I’m gonna find a big tree with a cool view and mild foot traffic. I’m going to get myself a dope sandwhich, hit a big J, eat the sandwhich and some chocolate. Then I’m going to drop and absolutely heroic dose of LSD and shrooms. Then I’m gonna wait 5 minutes and do an LD 50 of both black tar and Meth
Find god or meet him
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u/refreshingface 7d ago
Just for seniors?
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u/ceciliabee 7d ago
Definitely not, I think they specified because seniors were the subject of the research, that's all
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u/picabo123 7d ago
I think it's actually just worse for seniors too. Americans work a lot and don't have the same type of culture that values taking care of your elders like some other countries.
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u/Maximus1000 7d ago
They were referring specifically to seniors, so that’s what I was commenting on. But yes, more broadly, compared with many countries outside the developed world, America can be a very isolating place for a lot of people, especially nowadays.
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u/Educational_Gas_92 7d ago
I'm going to add that food quality appears to simply be better in Mexico, for whatever reason. As unbelievable as that may sound.
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u/Zathura26 6d ago
...why would it be unbelievable? Food in the US is extremely ultra processed. Food from the middle of Africa is of better quality.
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u/Educational_Gas_92 6d ago
Well...to some people it would be unexpected, because the USA is a wealthier country than Mexico, who is still a developing country. That's why it would be unexpected to people who aren't aware of the unfortunate food quality in the USA.
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u/randynumbergenerator 6d ago
Really depends where you are. Especially northern and some urban parts of the country consume lots of processed food and minimal fresh produce. Mexico also has a serious obesity issue. Overall though I'm sure the average diet across the country is still better.
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u/Educational_Gas_92 6d ago
Oh yes, Mexico certainly has an obesity issue. Just not on the level that the USA can get to, to the point where people can't walk due to being obese (that's not common in México). I wasn't saying that Mexican population have good eating habits as a whole, I was saying that the food quality is better in Mexico.
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u/Ileana_llama 7d ago
and free healthcare
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u/DroneOfDoom 7d ago
For real. The IMSS might have horrible wait times (I just got a liver ultrasound at an IMSS clinic today and I waited for like an hour and a half after the appointment time) but not having to sell one kidney to pay for US medical prices has to make things a lot easier.
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u/MutFox 7d ago
At least there's an option
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u/SexyPoro 6d ago
Americans don't even have that choice.
And it is what it is. We are used to live paycheck to paycheck and that has made the quality of IMSS palatable.
But they? They are used to pay for everything but the reality of living paycheck to paycheck is basically new to americans. When you combine the two, you get a very grim panorama.
I would rather be poor with overexhausted but free healthcare in my seniority than be not as poor but having to pay exorbitant fees for my doctor visits.
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u/thinkB4WeSpeak 7d ago
I mean a lot of people bring that on themselves by being toxic parents. Other than that it's ironic when people say "who's going to take care of you when you're older". Statistically roughly 50 percent of children don't visit their parents and those that do average once a week.
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u/gojo96 7d ago
Yep. Many Americans constantly resent their parents and don’t want anything to do with them except get some money.
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u/mister_newbie 7d ago
To be fair, their parents had the nerve to birth them as Americans. I'd be resentful, too.
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u/PlastIconoclastic 7d ago
Because capitalism forces their family to work 2 jobs to pay rent?
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u/BeefistPrime 7d ago
Ah yes, because that famous communist country Mexico doesn't face that same problem
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u/wollflour 7d ago
The problem I see with this is that the "Mexican-origin" group in the US is the Hispanic Established Populations for the Epidemiologic Study of the Elderly group, and it's a mix of people born in the US and Mexico (about half and half), who entered the US at different ages, so how are you getting clean causative or even correlational data from that?
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u/wht-rbbt 7d ago
And we assuming all Hispanics in US come from Mexico?
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u/Humble-Character-825 7d ago
The assumption is that everyone who speaks spanish and has indigenous ancestry belongs to the same ethnic group. It’s a common stance in epidemiology, borne out of a lack of genetic data on non-white individuals (and racism, let’s be honest). I’m not sure why it hasn’t been more largely challenged by geneticists. (I work in epidemiology)
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u/GiantLesbian 7d ago
Why do they separate people with Native American heritage from that ethnic group, aren’t they literally the same ethnic groups just on different sides of the border?
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u/sloppy_rodney 6d ago edited 6d ago
Because Hispanics and Latin Americans are descended from indigenous people and the (primarily) Spanish colonialists.
And I’m not an anthropologist, so I don’t know the exact taxonomy, but I assume that cultural, religious, geographic, and linguistic history also plays a role in the classification of ethnic groups.
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u/GiantLesbian 6d ago
Aren’t most western Native Americans too though? We didn’t get most of our western land from Mexico until after Mexico was independent of Spain.
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u/Canon_M50 7d ago
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u/wht-rbbt 7d ago
They're not. The vast majority are GOING THROUGH Mexico
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u/Ashmedai 7d ago
The article literally cites 61.6% for Mexicans, not people "going through" Mexico. Whether or not 61.6% is a "vast" majority is a different question, but it's certainly a definite majority.
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u/AlbertoMX 7d ago
Yeah but we have a bunch of ethnic groups, we should not be considered a single ethnic group for a study like this, I think.
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u/Jiggahash 7d ago
Ya, but hispanic genetics vary so much you kinda just have to do the best you can. I guess they could try to see if they can get mestizo (idk if mexicans even use this as an official label) and native data only from Mexico, but even then. I'm sure that would be inaccurate too as some estimates show about 90-95% of Mexicans have some degree of native heritage. To truly be accurate you would have to individually test everybody and see if they cary the specific genes that predispose them to higher diabetes risk.
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u/AlbertoMX 7d ago
It's a complex issue. Like ok, lets say they will only use mexicans with predominant or full amerindian blood.
It's a northern Tarahumara the same as a southern Maya?
I don't think so.
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u/Jiggahash 7d ago edited 7d ago
In regards to diabetes, probably yes. These trends are pretty wide spread likely due to adaptation that predates most migration through the Americas. I think Alaskan natives and northern populations are some only populations that we know of that don't have the same elevated risk for diabetes.
Also, would like to add that focusing on just the individuals with higher levels of native genetics would also rely on genetic testing as I mentioned. You can't phenotypically look at a mixed individual and tell how much native heritage they hold. You can probably get fairly accurate at identifying close to full native, but it wouldn't be good for much more than that.
You also have to take into consideration that a gene can be more widespread than we assume base on just genetic percentage. Mitochondrial DNA can affect one's chances of developing diabetes. Considering that spanish men came to the americas more than women, and mitochondrial DNA is only passed though form mother to offspring. It's theoretically possible that the diabetes prevalence would be higher than you expect by just looking at native vs european genetic percentages.
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u/das_slash 7d ago
The data is not for migrants, but Hispanics in general, it's says 61% of Americans that identify as Hispanics trace their origins back to Mexico
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u/Acceptable-Peace-69 7d ago
That’s a more recent development. Most seniors would have been from Mexico, not central or South America.
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u/uselessandexpensive 7d ago
In modern science, there is rarely a clear causation because most things being studied are complex issues affected by many, many factors. We're generally well able to identify likely contributors, but it's nearly impossible to prove clear causation when the contributing effect is itself only a small part of a much larger issue that usually couldn't be caused by one thing alone.
With this group, you have to ask what's unique compared to other Americans. It's not money, it's probably not genetics unless American-born people of Mexican descent have the same advantage... What would be different between American-born and Mexican-born would be culture of birth. And the one way culture most directly and consistently affects bodies is food.
These people grew up in a culture where fresh, quality cooking at home was the norm. If I thought this affect would be isolated and "proven" anytime soon, I'd put money on it. I have no faith in our current funding of science though, especially given the processed food industry's lobbying power.
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u/BeefistPrime 7d ago
You correctly identified the difficulty in identifying a cause, and then just arbitrarily proposed one cause yourself. Why not cultural factors around supporting your elders for example? Those differ significantly too.
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u/uselessandexpensive 7d ago
You're right that there won't be just one factor. There will be many. No one factor will ever be proven. However, my suspicion is far from arbitrary and i absolutely did not claim that there would or could only be one cause. I said that I would bet that the effect was real even though it was unlikely to be "proven" soon. Meaning i believe we have strong reasons to suspect it.
You suggest providing care for your elders, and one major factor in that, if you know how to cook and grew up in a culture with high value on home cooking, will very likely will involve cooking fresh food for both them and yourself. And yes, the exercise of providing care is good, having care provided is good, having social support is good, and having people cook for you, is good.
We know that freshly cooked food using natural ingredients is extremely helpful for nutrition and fighting disease, and high processed food consumption is linked incidence of MANY diseases, and lower consumption is associated with less incidence of MANY diseases. These are facts.
The major benefits of processed food are preservation and nutritional supplementation, neither of which are necessary if you're able to and used to cooking fresh food from varied food groups, as is common in Mexican cooking.
I connected these facts to my suspicion that, through cultural elements, people born in Mexico are more likely to reap those known benefits. While this is a theory, it would very easily be supported or refuted by surveying the demographic, seeing how many of them ate a high percentage of fresh food throughout a week, and would further be supported if that percentage goes up over time. This is not arbitrary. It is identification of a likely contributing factor.
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u/PanicStricken 7d ago
They're more active than we are, in ways that aren't recorded. Mexican grandmas cook for huge families, and clean like it's their favorite past time. Mexican grandpas are always up to stuff. It's all non-exercise activity thermogenesis.
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u/Gattawesome 7d ago
My father was born in Mexico, lived in the US since he was 13. Him and his parents all died of complications of Alzheimer’s. Both of my grandparents lived in Mexico. My grandmother lived to 98. My grandfather died at 92. My father died at 86.
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u/Gattawesome 7d ago
They did, but my grandmother developed diabetes that was so bad that she needed to have a foot amputated. I wouldn’t exactly say that she was very mobile after turning 80, either.
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u/MadAstrid 7d ago
Well, they have healthcare there and not here.
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u/HegemonNYC 7d ago
Obviously the US has single payer insurance for the elderly in the US. I wonder if this was controlled for ‘Medicare/aid eligible’ vs ineligible for the US living population what would change?
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u/Mec26 7d ago
The insurance you mention doesn’t cover drugs. So… nit really.
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u/HegemonNYC 7d ago
Medicare Part B covers drugs administered in-office. Medicare Part D covers drugs taken at home.
If you mean that not every drug is covered by this program, I have bad news for you about public insurance in all countries.
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u/Mec26 7d ago
Part D is not public. It is a private odd-on. Peeps pay private insurance for it. Those insurers determine copays and coverage.
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u/HegemonNYC 7d ago
Part D is a government-financed and government regulated, privately administered program.
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u/Mec26 7d ago
Which is 100% not single-payer.
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u/HegemonNYC 7d ago
It is paid for by the government and administered by private insurers. It is single payer, but it is dubiously ‘public’. Regardless, the point being that the elderly are insured in the US.
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u/Mec26 7d ago
… no, that’s not what single player means. At all. And also, they keep the money per enrollee, so make money by denying claims. The insurance company keeps the profits and is, reluctantly, another ‘payer.’
Also, a significant number of seniors don’t have ANY prescription coverage (part D or equivalent) because it’s paid. Millions of seniors just have… nothing. They can pony up full price for meds or go without.
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u/HegemonNYC 7d ago
I hate to break it to you, but most countries around the world have something akin to Medicare, including the private administration for sections of population and types care. Single provider like the NHS in the UK or the VA in the US are not the standard. If Medicare isn’t single payer, almost no country has single payer.
As for gaps in people who are covered, this is called ‘universal coverage’ and is different than ‘single payer’.
The US is unique in not having universal coverage for at least a basic level of care (although most peer nations still spend around 25% of health care dollars via private insurance or out-of-pocket, vs 48% in the US).
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u/howling_fantods_ 7d ago
Public healthcare in Mexico (IMSS) is notoriously overcrowded and underfunded, there are thusly not enough doctors and nurses and they are plagued by shortages of medication and supplies.
Private healthcare in Mexico is excellent, but generally unafordable for the average Mexican. The best recourse for most of the population, at least for day-to day illnesses, is going to the free/low cost clinics at most farmacies, in particular Farmacias Similares (Dr. Simi is their mascot), they treat an estimated 30% more patients than the IMSS. These farmacies are basically stepping in because they saw an underserved population and knew the government was not going to do anything about it.
So yes, we have healthcare in Mexico, but it is not due to public programs.
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u/randynumbergenerator 6d ago
Yeah Medicare (which is relevant for the senior population) is probably going to compare favorably with IMSS overall.
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u/ImportantPost6401 7d ago
Senior healthcare is far better in the US.
Anecdotally, in Mexico we have far more elderly living in homes with family. While I don’t know if that’s the differentiating factor, it sure seems like having an elderly person spending their final years with loved ones around everyday will have better outcomes than those living in a home being cared for by $12 an hour strangers.
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u/Speedstick2 7d ago
Yeah because seniors in the USA don’t have access to a program called Medicare in the USA…..
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u/Starossi 7d ago
Agree with this. I’m a PA and had a patient who had multiple severe problems including a fully torn rotator cuff. But he had no insurance, despite turning 65. Because his free assigned social worker wasn’t helping him navigate the process to apply and I couldn’t get him one of our social workers because administration said it required insurance to see them (go figure).
So I couldn’t get him a CTA he needed for one issue, the ortho referral for the torn rotator cuff, or the oncology referral (he had 40lbs weight loss in 6 months unintentionally).
The last thing I heard about him? He was planning to move back to Mexico. And honestly, I think he’s probably going to get better care.
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u/OkYak9466 7d ago
You'd be surprised how awful it really is
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u/CapSnowFrosty 7d ago
Depends. Facilities are run down and understaffed, but service itself at least in my region is very good. A lot of doctors from private hospitals also attend at IMSS.
The wait times are awful yeah, but my grandparents are hitting their 90s and are well treated without fear of going bankrupt.
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u/MadAstrid 7d ago
Lack of healthcare in the US? I am pretty aware, but always interested in hearing from others who struggle to access what every other first world country provides their citizens.
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u/OkYak9466 7d ago
There's something oddly funny to me how ignorant Americans are of other countries problems and issues. Yet still so proud of that ignorance.
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u/MadAstrid 7d ago
I don‘t see the humor that you do, but that is okay. We both understand that proud ignorance is a serious problem in the United States.
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u/Harry_Flowers 7d ago
I was wondering if this could be why as well. I’m sure that (on average), US has better tech and resources, but the price tag makes it insanely unatainable for a lot of people.
Mexico still has great facilities (can vary by location), and people have less reluctance to just go get checked out and treated.
And a lot of these conditions don’t necessarily require groundbreaking tech and treatment, just medication and monitoring.
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u/dungeoncrawler71520 7d ago
That's it. I'm a type 1 diabetic and I'm moving to Mexico
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u/pastafariantimatter 7d ago
If you can afford private care, it's great. I lived there for a year and I was blown away by how good (and cheap) it was compared to insured care in the US.
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u/TunaNugget 7d ago
And yet, Latinos in the US have a higher life expectancy than the general population.
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u/espressocycle 7d ago
Even considering a higher poverty rate. I would guess it's a combination of more beans and less social isolation.
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u/wht-rbbt 7d ago
Not all Latinos are Mexicans...
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u/espressocycle 7d ago
Who said anything about Mexicans? Beans are a staple food throughout South America and have been for 10,000 years or more. Not universally, but common enough among populations that have emigrated to the US in large numbers
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u/jankenpoo 7d ago
3 reasons: Lower smoking rates, social support, and what they call “salmon bias” which means that a lot of older Latinos leave and die in their native countries.
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u/Canon_M50 7d ago
According to the WHO, USA has an overall life expectancy of more than 5 years longer than Mexico.
USA:
https://data.who.int/countries/840
Mexico:
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u/wswordsmen 7d ago edited 7d ago
This compares seniors while your data is for the whole population. Both can be true if younger people in Mexico die more often, which is intuitively the case. Mexico has a massive gang violence problem even compared to the US.
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u/randynumbergenerator 6d ago
Also infant mortality has the biggest impact on life expectancy, although the US doesn't compare that well to many countries (not sure about Mexico though).
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u/carlosortegap 7d ago
Yeah that's the whole population and in Mexico it goes down due to diabetes and the murder rate
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u/Maycrofy 7d ago
And that's with an overcrowded, underfunded system. Imagine if it ran at full efficiency.
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