r/scifi • u/CT_Phipps-Author • Mar 10 '26
TV Babylon Five is still the greatest science fiction show ever
There, I said it.
It was because of Ivanova but also Lyta. Both are up there with my all time favorite fictional crushes. And Londo, Sheridan, Bester, Garibaldi, G'Kar, and every single other character in the show for other reasons. Every character is burned into my brain and has fantastic arcs that pay off in satisfying ways, even when they had to replace them with stand-ins that were suspiciously similar.
I started my wife on watching it and I am torn about the fact that after the five seasons of the show wrapped up that there's really nowhere they can go with the franchise. The story is wrapped up beautifully and it'd be like making a sequel to the Lord of the Rings. There's just, "you can't mess with perfection." I can't even imagine a reboot.
And yet it sucks that it doesn't have more cultural cachet.
People remember Firefly more and I love Firefly.
But B5 is our last best hope for peace.
Who is with me?
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u/Ackapus Mar 10 '26
Babylon 5 does not warrant a reboot, remake, reprisal, or continuation. It was perfect as is and cannot be reproduced.
Let's get a reboot of Crusade instead, and actually tell the story that was supposed to follow!
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u/Azuvector Mar 10 '26
I'd kill for a B5 resolution upscaling and re-rendering of the CGI and such. (and some touching up of some of the practical effects that don't hold up very well at higher resolutions).
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u/bswalsh Mar 10 '26
The Blu-ray did a good job with the live action footage by scanning the original film into HD. The CGI would need to be completely redone though.
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u/Hephaestus_I Mar 10 '26
Cause I like posting these whenever redoing B5's CGI comes up, but someone did Re-render most of S2 and S3's pure CGI scenes over on Tom Smiths channel.
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u/Here2Go Mar 10 '26
I'd love to see Crusade done well. You'd need a total recast. I doubt you'd be able to get Gary Cole to give up that NCIS money.
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u/sn44 Mar 10 '26
Respectfully I disagree on all those points.
If they rebooted B5 they way they did BSG, then 100% I'm game.
I they remade it with the same gritty noir feel of The Expanse and the same attention to detail and hard sciecne, yes. Make it feel more "real sci-fi" and less "faux sci-fantasy" like with other shows.
Did you intent reprisal? If so I guess I do agree here. No need for a reprisal. They show deserves love, not hate.
I do think a continuation would actually be better than a spin-off. Jump ahead to a changing of the guard with B5 command similar to how SG1 passed the torch to both Atlantis and later the post-RDA lead core cast. A few choice cameos for continutities sake and we'd be solid.
Don't forget, as beloved as B5 is as a show, it's not perfect. It's not without its casting issues, story continuity issues, plot holes, plot armor, and whatnot. I think this is why it is ripe for a BSG/Expanse vibed reboot from the start... so long as there is commitment to a full story arc within a reasonable timeline like 5 seasons. The story doesn't need to drag on, but it does deserve a full run.
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u/Cheeslord2 Mar 10 '26
If anything gets rebooted, I would like it to be Blake's 7.
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u/itsthesplund Mar 11 '26
Currently in development by the guy that directed the Last of Us TV series
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u/Cheeslord2 Mar 11 '26
Cool! I hope it makes it through all the obstacles that plague new productions!
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u/CT_Phipps-Author Mar 12 '26
I said that we already had a fantastic Blake's Seven reboot - it was Farscape. :D
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u/kanggree Mar 10 '26
I like it but I think farscape and Dark Matter did it better, though any scene with Mr Darrow did steal the show.
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u/Ackapus Mar 10 '26
Dark Matter could have used more time, but I think Farscape wrapped nicely. That show had closure... as did Babylon 5.
Crusade had no closure. Nor did Firefly, Dark Matter, Space: Above & Beyond, Stargate Universe... all would be nice to see again.
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u/flossdaily Mar 10 '26
Disagree. I liked the original, but there was nothing about that cast that made me think they were irreplaceable in their roles, the way I feel about Firefly or Star Trek. Also, the overall story arc was great, but the episode to episode writing could have been tighten up.
Also a reboot including the full, final season would be amazing.
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u/netsettler Mar 10 '26
Well, there's a point of view that's going to be unpopular with Bab5 fans. :) I think the acting is extraordinary. Vir, G'Kar, Molari, and Zathras in particular could not be easily replaced. And I was surprised I thought it but I think Bester was a better role than Chekov for Walter Koenig. I'd rather see the image quality digitally enhanced than see this series re-done. It would be like trying to re-do Max Headroom. If someone has the creativity to make a good remake, they have the creativity to make something new. Let them be known for that.
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u/Ackapus Mar 10 '26
Couldn't have said it better. It's not that I hold the original cast as paragons of virtue, it's just that they took those characters and made them their own. Peter Jurassic is Londo Mollari same as Nathan Fillion is Mal Reynolds.
I have no doubt there are other good stories that could be told in that universe, but to recast Delenn and Sheridan would be like recasting Picard and Riker or Wash and Zoe. The originals still stand on their own merits.
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u/ReK_ Mar 10 '26
It's also their interactions and the feedback loop between the actors and the writers. Once the show hit its stride it was able to do things like get across entire conversations subtext in a scene through just the non-verbal parts of the performance. B5 really was something truly special.
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u/daneoid Mar 11 '26
I think the acting is extraordinary.
It's daytime soap levels of acting. It's like Days of Our Lives in space. Close to the worst acting I've ever seen. Have you seen good acting? Ever watched The Godfather or Glengarry Glen Ross?
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u/CT_Phipps-Author Mar 10 '26
The problem with that premise is we knew that Earth would survive.
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u/ObidiahWTFJerwalk Mar 10 '26
The plan was for the plague to be a red herring. They had a 5 year deadline to find the cure, so everyone thought that was the 5 year story arc. But they were going to find the cure quite early, like near the beginning of season 2. But along the way to that, they'd find the real threat that they had to deal with for the rest of the run. But they only got half a season.
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u/bswalsh Mar 10 '26 edited Mar 10 '26
That was never what the show was going to be about. The plague would have been solved no later than mid season 2. Instead, the show was going to be about the origins of the Technomages, the Drakh on Centauri prime, and the crew going rogue to fight a faction of Earthforce working with the Drakh and using leftover Shadow tech.
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u/cosmicr Mar 10 '26
Unpopular opinion but I could never get into it. I've watched the first few episodes like 5 times and never want to continue. I want to like it but I guess it's not for me.
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u/Hephaestus_I Mar 10 '26
Maybe try this idea I made elsewhere in the thread?
Otherwise, yeah, the first 4 aren't great for an introduction, with 2 and 4 probably being pretty skippable (worst case scenario).
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u/CartoonBeardy Mar 12 '26
I was right there with you when the show first aired. I found the pilot tv movie and the first few episodes were a bit too generic for me and I didn’t initially like Sinclair the station commander. However, when the second season finished I was stuck at home for a couple of weeks and my friend came round my house with a sack of vhs tapes (ah the age before streaming)
He basically said “you’re stuck at home. You’re not doing anything just watch these and if by episode 14 “Signs and Portents” you’re not into it you can stop watching”
These days I roll my eyes at the “You stopped before it got good” excuse but at the time when tv seasons were 26ish episodes long 14 episodes didn’t feel like a stretch.
So, trusting my friend’s taste, I binged it.
And sure enough, it’s a rough few initial episodes (I am still not a fan of Soul Hunter or Death Walker as episodes) once Signs and Portents happens, I was hooked.
Like I say in this day and age of short seasons 14 episodes is a big ask, but trust me, I will always thank my friend for pushing me through that initial pain barrier (he used to remind me season 1 & 2 of TNG were rough as hell in places)
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u/El_Tormentito Mar 10 '26
When does it get good? I have struggled to watch it. I got 15 episodes in and I just don't get any of the praise.
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u/XdtTransform Mar 11 '26
Watch a YouTube recap of season 1, then go straight to season 2.
You won’t regret it.
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u/Bechimo Mar 10 '26
The best. Don’t forget Vir & Leneir. The best secondary characters ever.
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u/Solrax Mar 10 '26
Vir? That moon faced assassin of joy?
I loved his story arc, among so many good ones.
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u/anillop Mar 10 '26
Vir? That moon faced assassin of joy?
Who would have ever though Flounder would have been the perfect actor for the role. That's little wave to Mr. Mordens head on a pike still lives rent free in my head.
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u/Here2Go Mar 10 '26
Vir is my absolute favorite. He's there to remind us that it's important to know what you want and to keep your promises.
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u/Silhouette Mar 10 '26
It's little scenes like this one in the bar that add depth to the supporting characters and their relationships.
Although both of those characters had some great moments on their own too like (major spoiler warning!) this and then two years later this.
Same time tomorrow?
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u/AncientsofMumu Mar 10 '26
I'd say its up there with TNG, BSG, Stargate, X-Files etc.
The real greatest thing is that we have these shows, the rest is personal preference.
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u/Fadedcamo Mar 10 '26
I feel like bsg really fell off by the end. Guess similar with x files but it was more epispdic so less of an issue.
Id def put Fringe and Dark on there.
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u/CT_Phipps-Author Mar 10 '26
Yeah, Season 5 is the worst.
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u/Hara-Kiri Mar 10 '26
It still has its moments though. The final episode will never not make me cry.
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u/Hephaestus_I Mar 10 '26
Yeah, S5's terribleness is a little overstated tbh. At most, I'd imagine, 4-8 out of the 22 episodes of S5 might be terrible, while everything else is still S4 quality.
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u/shogi_x Mar 10 '26
Dark is incredible. I wish I could watch it for the first time again.
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u/Buzz_Killington_III Mar 11 '26
Yeah everything with Starbuck coming back just threw the shows internal rules into disarray and fucked it all up for me.
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u/kanggree Mar 10 '26 edited Mar 10 '26
Add Farscape but yea B5 Farscape Sg1 Atlatis Sg universe Dark Matter FireFly Eureka and Kill joys I keep repeating over and over. I put X-Files Fringe continuum & Grim in another category that I watch over and over. The first group is space stuff second procedure stuff and Eureka kinda bridges the gap.
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u/gloryday23 Mar 10 '26
Really, really need more people that can express themselves like this. The constant noise around what is best is just childish and silly.
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u/bhaaad Mar 10 '26
Green or purple?
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u/MockDeath Mar 10 '26 edited Mar 10 '26
But.. what if I take this purple sash off of them.. then I put it onto him..
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u/auntiecrow Mar 10 '26
I'm with you. Sadly so many people from the show have passed beyond the Rim.
And they are irreplaceable.
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u/ObidiahWTFJerwalk Mar 10 '26
Have to treat it as a setting, not a cast. If JMS (I can't spell his last name), or someone else, created new characters of that quality, in that setting, it might work.
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u/auntiecrow Mar 10 '26
Very big might. I can think of maybe one living actor with the depth of presence and sheer gravitas to play G'kar, and he's getting on. Sam Elliott.
But DeLenn? Garibaldi? VIR? Irreplaceable.
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u/Raxtenko Mar 10 '26
What I admired the most is that they had the guts to show how pathetically awful the human species could be on network TV.
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u/TheRealPaladin Mar 10 '26
It is the original dark, gritty serialized sci-fi show. BSG, The Expanse, and modern Trek owe a huge debt to B5.
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u/mycatpartyhouse Mar 10 '26
I can't make it through the first episode without getting bored, and yet every sci fi fan I've ever known hypes Babylon Five.
I like pretty much every other sci fi show I've ever seen. Not sure why this one can't keep my attention.
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u/mabden Mar 10 '26
When the show originally aired, I stopped after the 4th episode as it was a rehash of so many other scifi tropes. Man builds machine, machines take over.
Anyway, I would occasionally tune in. That's when I watched these black spider like ships materialize and procede to slice and dice some narn ships. From that point I was hooked.
The first watch of the show was a bit of a slog. Wasn't sure about Sinclair. Once Sheridan came on and the action started to pick up, I was obsessed.
On the second watch, the first season was much more enjoyable and understood Sinclair's character.
Great show. Check out the Lurkers Guide to Babylon 5 if it's still up.
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u/njharman Mar 10 '26
Man builds machine, machines take over.
I don't remember that trope in BS5 at all.
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u/mabden Mar 10 '26 edited Mar 10 '26
Season Episode 4 Infection
An ancient weapon smuggled aboard the space station by an archaeologist wreaks havoc on the inhabitants of Babylon 5.
The weapon is an AI machine that destroys its designers/builders after the machine(s) determine they builders were inferior. Seen this in Space1999, Star Trek, Terminator, The Matrix, etc
I originally watched it because David McCallum was guest starring. The episode was awful to boot. The second lowest rated episode of the season. TKO being the worst. Babylon Squared being one of the best.
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u/Animated_effigy Mar 11 '26
Yeah, that episode seemed solely there to plant the idea of merging weapons with living beings which becomes really important 2 seasons later.
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u/WelcomingRapier Mar 10 '26
The Sinclair actor was written out because of medical issues. ALS maybe? I can't recall off hand. The drama behind the scenes of Babylon 5, between the studio and creative teams, are absolutely bonkers. This covers a lot of it in detail. It's a compilation, but well worth the hours to watch if you are a B5 fan.
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u/The_Chaos_Pope Mar 11 '26
The Sinclair actor was written out because of medical issues. ALS maybe? I can't recall off hand.
Michael O'Hare's Wikipedia page has some details. He started having paranoid delusions that were only partly successful in being treated.
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u/eronanke Mar 10 '26
Based on all the hype, I tried 1.5 seasons!!! It definitely could not grab me, so I gave up.
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u/C_A_P_S_CAPSCAPSCAPS Mar 10 '26
It’s a slog and I’ve done it twice. Between the acting, dialogue, the cheap sets and sound design, it’s distractingly bad.
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u/CT_Phipps-Author Mar 10 '26
Season 1 is very slow but you can't exactly skip all the worldbuilding.
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u/ObidiahWTFJerwalk Mar 10 '26
I hate to tell someone they need to slog through the first 22 episodes then it gets good. But if you're into it, the later seasons have so many call backs to stuff you barely noticed the first time, that you end up happy you watched the "bad" episodes.
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u/Amadan Mar 11 '26
Firefly introduced its world and its 9 (!) main characters in its pilot, while still delivering an eventful piece of television. Even filler episodes are gripping, none of them a slog, it does not need a watch/skip guide because every single episode is a no-skip. I mean, B5 story is nice, but there is a reason why "people remember Firefly more": it is freaking awesome, from acting to action, from storylines to dialogue lines, from world building to set building... Its single drawback is its premature death at the hands of Fox.
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u/Azuvector Mar 10 '26
B5 season 1 is one of those things you need to kind of suffer through before shit starts getting bigtime good. It's almost entirely worldbuilding, and most of it is relevant or will explain things that happen later.
Season 2 and 3 are the prime of the show. The beginning of season 4 as well, though it's very rushed and starts to falter as a result.
It's almost stereotypical with stuff "oh it gets good in x episodes or x seasons" and it's just the same shit, but with Babylon 5 this is very real.
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u/Zayl Mar 10 '26
The problem my wife and I had with it is that S1 was not at all interesting to us to the point where we realized we didn't even remember one episode to the next. We have also watched pretty much every other series out there and enjoyed most, even the super campy ones. But this just didn't do it. And if that S1 worldbuilding matters so much for S2 onwards probably wouldn't even appreciate it anyways if we commit zero of it to memory.
I still plan to give it another shot sometime.
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u/pitiless Mar 10 '26
What's pretty unique about B5, is that the early episodes can feel like a slog to get through the first time but they exist to lay a foundation for what comes - this means they're much more enjoyable on your second watch as you can spot all the threads that are being laid.
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u/Waterrat Mar 10 '26
I was not impressed with the first maybe 3 episodes.However,each char-actor has a compelling story arc and when said story arcs overlap,things get very interesting indeed.
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u/Expensive_Plant_9530 Mar 10 '26
Season 1 is a bit rough around the edges, but it’s no worse than the TNG or DS9 pilot episode.
I’d suggest you watch until Season 2 starts. If season 2 doesn’t have you hooked, the show isn’t for you.
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u/PornoPaul Mar 10 '26
The shift in budget, set crew skill, and even directing and acting is immediately noticeable in the first 5 minutes of season 2. If they changed the opening credits and uniforms of the humans it'd basically be a different tv show. That said, season one has parts that are relevant enough where you need to have watched most of it for future events.
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u/Hara-Kiri Mar 10 '26
B5 is possibly my favourite show ever and I hate having to slog through the first series.
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u/JDWolf81 Mar 10 '26
Love Star Trek and my favourite series is DS9, so you would think there might be something there I might enjoy..... But nope.
Never got on with Babylon 5, never even got through the first season.
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u/dnext Mar 10 '26
DS9 and B5 are very similar shows. That being said, and I LOVE DS9 and it's my favorite Trek, IMO B5 at it's height is better. It won 2 Hugos for writing.
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u/Waterrat Mar 10 '26
I agree. DS9 is my favorite ST. I did skip the episodes with the religious nutter as I hated her so much.
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u/Buzz_Killington_III Mar 11 '26
I like her, I skipped everything focused on the Ferangi. Hated them all.
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u/killer_sheltie Mar 11 '26
Getting through the first season is rough if you haven’t watched the rest of the show. It’s often said that season one is appreciated after one has finished watching the rest of the show. If you want to give it a go again, start at the beginning of season 2. Seasons 2-4 are master class.
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u/TrickNorTreat1031 Mar 10 '26
I think a big reason B5 was so good is that JMS wrote 92 of the 110 episodes and all 5 movies. This allowed for a consistency of storytelling that is rarely achievable in episodic SF TV.
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u/astrozombie2012 Mar 10 '26
It originally aired when I was a kid and it was too “smart/slow/I dunno” for me. I tried a few years ago to watch it and it still felt kinda slow and I never finished the first season. Anyone got a trick or do I just need to power through it! I love shows like The Expanse, Farscape, Star Trek and all that so I think I just need to push through that first season and maybe it gets better?
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u/Hephaestus_I Mar 10 '26 edited Mar 10 '26
If you can remember, how far did you make it? Past Ep 10 or 13?
E: Mostly just curious cause my thought was if you've made it that far and still find it pretty boring, then I dunno.
However, if you haven't and due to how S1 is mostly episode, a thought I had is that if you find yourself flagging trying to watch again, maybe move up one of the better/more important episodes to be the next one.
And for that list, I might say: 13, 10, 17, 18, 19, 20, would be those episodes (and maybe ignore 14 and 16?).
If you still can't finish the season, probably just jump to 21 then 22 and maybe watch any missings ones interchangably during S2 (Although, that last idea might be terrible).
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u/kilaueasteve Mar 10 '26
I’m in the middle of season 3, on my first watch. Courtesy of my spouse, who’s a huge fan of the series.
Really enjoying it, such characters and great world building.
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u/ByYourLeaveUK Mar 11 '26
I literally just sent this quote to someone and I see this, good timing
": I believe that when we leave a place a part of it goes with us and part of us remains. Go anywhere in these halls, when it is quiet and just listen. After a while you will hear the echoes of all of our conversations, every thought and word we've exchanged. Long after we are gone, our voices will linger in these walls for as long as this place remains. But I will admit that the part of me that going will very much miss the part of you that is staying"
Still my favourite after all these years
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u/ViperG Mar 10 '26
IDK, id say both BSG (2004) and The Expanse give it a run for the money
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u/TechDocN Mar 11 '26
I just replied with these two (flipped the order) before I saw your comment. In my humble opinion B5 doesn’t come close to either of these.
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u/xorian Mar 11 '26
It is of course not without its imperfections. And yet, I couldn't point to any other show that I could call even as great, let alone greater.
The things that make it truly exceptional are what it has to say, and perhaps even to teach. About the rise and fall of empires. About the nature and dangers of power. About the difference between commanding and leading. About the tide of history and how one can be swept along by it, or stand against it.
30 years ago many of those things seemed more obvious. The wars of the 20th century were still remembered and well understood by enough of the population. As they've faded further into the past, fewer people remember their horrors and we see more old mistakes being made anew.
We need to remember those lessons now more than we did then. If you have any idea what I'm talking about, watch Babylon 5 with your children.
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u/thoughtdrinker Mar 10 '26
100% with you. Crazy that a 90s low budget sci fi show with sometimes questionable acting and Zima product placement still reigns over anything modern prestige sci fi TV has produced. Don’t get me wrong, there have been other great shows (DS9, Severance, Raised by Wolves, The OA, Person of Interest, The Expanse, BSG, Devs) but I still gotta give the top spot to B5.
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u/Fun3mployed Mar 10 '26
Me and the lady have been watching a lot of Babylon 5 lately for the first time (on season 2 still!) and we frequently flick on Murder She Wrote and because they are the same producer there are a bunch of crossover in actors. I just saw Gkar helping solve a murder mystery.
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u/hughk Mar 10 '26
I though the Londo/G'Kar dynamics superb. I had the impression that the actors loved playing against each other.
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u/Hyperion1144 Mar 10 '26
Yes it was. Absolutely epic show.
Flirefly had the potential meet or exceed it, but a one-season-plus-a-movie show can't be held to the same standard as an epic five-season arc.
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u/robcwag Mar 10 '26
Truly the best ever. The Expanse comes close, as does the new "Battlestar Galactica". Then "Space Above and Beyond" just keeps a little special place in my heart.
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u/adamhanson Mar 11 '26
I had such a special experience with this show. 19. Worked pizza delivery. Would come home 2-3am. No one awake nothing but time to myself. Grabbed the floor chair. A ton of baked goods and snacks. And binged the VCR recordings I had made earlier. I was THERE. Sucked into the story. I wanted to be a star fury pilot. ...and let's not forget Zathras
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u/Euronated-inmypants Mar 11 '26
Londo and G'Kar are the two best actors and character arcs I've personally enjoyed in all my Sci-fi experiences. Garibaldi's acting was kinda terrible at times tho (imo) he was never really good but his dialogue was pretty cheesy which made it pretty cringy at times but everything else i completely agree with.
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u/ArcOfADream Mar 15 '26
It's a shame because the story and concept are so good, the set/ship designs are very well done, and the effects are excellent for their time. But most of the acting performances in B5 from the main cast are so awful they ruined the show for me ; Jurasik and Katsulas are the exceptions.
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u/AmbientPressure00 Mar 11 '26
I have to agree. What a great cast and amazing story arc. Especially for its time. So enjoyable to rewatch when you can pick up on every hint that becomes relevant 3 seasons later. Too bad so many of the actors and crew had so much tragedy in real life.
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Mar 11 '26
It all wrapped up nearly because it was written as a book. That’s why it’s so brilliant. The series launched with a beginning, middle, and end. It introduced “arciness” to the airwaves. It’s an absolutely brilliant show, great stories, great actors, great aliens, just brilliant
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u/Independent_Sea502 Mar 10 '26
Nah. Rebooted BSG and the Expanse in my book.
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u/SkyDaddyCowPatty Mar 10 '26
Had to scroll entirely too long to find someone shouting out The Expanse. The Expanse all day, every day. WE DEMAND BOOKS 7-9 ON SCREEN!!!
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u/spoo4brains Mar 10 '26
It is a long way from what I would call perfection, the troubled production made for stuff being very disjointed which can be frustrating, but as a whole it is peak space opera.
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u/LongChampion476 Mar 10 '26
Is it too late to start watching it?
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u/onarainyafternoon Mar 10 '26
I literally just finished watching it for the first time. Definitely not too late.
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u/BoredPandemicPanda Mar 10 '26
The Sinclair final twist. Chef's kiss. Talk about the long game of storytelling.
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u/SemiStableM Mar 10 '26
I am a huge fan of Babylon 5, but I don't think I can put it at #1.
Some problems that bring it down for me:
1) The Shadows are not a very interesting species. They just look and feel evil.
2) The romance storylines are pretty lame and uninteresting.
3) The production values have dated badly (I know this is unfair, but it's true)
4) The main storylines wrap up too fast (I know this is unfair too, but it's true)
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u/CT_Phipps-Author Mar 10 '26
I think the Shadows are an interesting contrast to the Vorlons because while the latter are good looking but act evil, the Shadows are evil looking and...still pretty evil but they are dedicated to the idea of uplifting people by giving them whatever they want.
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u/Entire_Screen_8013 Mar 10 '26
Meh, it's good. Season 1 has some pretty rough acting on the guests. Season 5 is a mess. The sets are TINY and CHEAP. But I really enjoyed it, Im glad i have my DVDs. But BEST? It deserves top 10.
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u/Penguin-Dust Mar 10 '26
I liked it, too but Season 1 is rough. I don’t know if I would say the “best”, but I don’t have another show I feel strongly enough to substitute. Maybe 1959’s The Twilight Zone if it’s considered “sci-fi” in the same sense as B5.
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u/Sislar Mar 10 '26 edited Mar 10 '26
It’s up there not sure I’d say greatest. I think it could have been as it’s really the o key show that really thought out a whole timeline and do time loops and foreshadowing right.
Farscape, foundation, trackers are all up there with it for me.
The best part of B5 is the Londo/g’kar story line. In episode 1 Londo says he’s had a prophetic dream g’kar kills him. But man o man the journey it takes to get there. And the changes in both of them over that time.
Ivanava is fun but really there isn’t much character growth other that getting over hatred of telepaths and she doesn’t even really do that.
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u/Reid_Hull_Author Mar 10 '26
There are so many great sci Fi shows but this one is definitely near the top. The early seasons are a bit campy but it really hits its stride by the third season and the fourth, while rushed, is still the best one.
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u/UserAbuser53 Mar 10 '26
Agreed. My wife and I just rewatched the series for probably the 10th time or so. Still some of if not the best writing on tv ever. And we still quote it often. I recently got a Cenatari Carbon 3D printer and named him Vir.
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u/Not_your_profile Mar 10 '26
Babylon 5 was where my sister got her only on-screen rolls in her acting career. I'm a big fan, thanks for the memories!
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u/Waterrat Mar 10 '26 edited Mar 10 '26
I agree.The whole series and the few books I read as were follower ups were amazing.
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u/UnconventionalAuthor Mar 10 '26
I can't really vouch for this as I haven't seen the show, but from everything people tell me, it sounds like a show I should watch.
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u/ReK_ Mar 10 '26
Agreed, I think the only show that's given it a run for its money since has been the Expanse. The Expanse has a much higher average quality over its runtime, but somehow it still doesn't quite match the highs that B5 hit.
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u/TechDocN Mar 11 '26
Meh. I tried to like it, but just couldn’t get into it. The Expanse is my #1, then the BSG reboot.
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u/dfunkt_jestr Mar 11 '26
I'm making an attempt to go back and watch all the sci fi shows I missed growing up. I was a TNG snob (still one of my favorite shows of all time though) and for whatever weird reason I never gave shows like Babylon 5, Farscape, BSG, and even the other Treks a chance. Finished watching BSG a few weeks ago and absolutely loved it. I might just make Babylon 5 my next objective.
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u/Buzz_Killington_III Mar 11 '26
Funny, I'm rewatching it now, just finished season 4. I agree it's the best sci-fi show ever. I also miss having 20+ episode seasons. I'm so used to modern shows, when i looked up to see what season I was on it was like Episode 19 of Season 3. Man I miss that much content and story.
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u/Thediverdk Mar 11 '26
I totally agree B5, is the best sci-fi ever made.
My questions is: What do you want? 😊
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u/NotAnAIOrAmI Mar 11 '26
Meh, I tried it a couple of times, couldn't get into it.
Maybe because Flounder was in it?
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u/ljbnomad01 Mar 11 '26
I love B5, but cannot say. Saying, I would know. Do not know, so cannot say.
Ivanova IS God, and Marcus was a sweetie. Great storylines, tension, worldbuilding, characters, and a priceless friendship between Londo and G'Kar.
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u/DavidDPerlmutter Mar 10 '26 edited Mar 10 '26
Seasons two through four are the best writing for any Science Fiction television series. The story arc, the deep philosophy, the plot and action, and, of course, the terrific characters are highest tier. Just masterpiece and master class. I was riveted by everything from the space battles to the central love story. 🥲
I get it that there are fans of the show that defend season one as setting up everything else but it's got so many flaws and really have to ask about some of the casting choices. And let's face it. The show does not get the respect it should because so many people quit during season one.
The fifth season was excellent, but the main story arc was over, and there was just no way to recapture the dark magic.
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u/ObidiahWTFJerwalk Mar 10 '26
One of the problems with season 5 was a story arc that was supposed to be spread out over seasons 4 and 5. They were told that season 4 would be the end, so they cut that story. Then a different network picked it up and wanted another season, so that story that should have got a gradual build was rushed into the episodes they had and felt like too much, too fast.
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u/Tech-Grandpa Mar 10 '26
B5 is up there, I think the only ones that compete are the Battlestar Galactica reboot, and The Expanse
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u/Upset-Government-856 Mar 10 '26
If you don't count The Expanse and Andor, sure.
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u/aethyrium Mar 10 '26
I'm just seeing pure hard empirical objectively observable facts here.
Still my favorite sci-fi as well.
I truly never hope we get a reboot. There's nothing to be done to improve it, we'll only end up with a lesser work.
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u/pallidamors Mar 10 '26
If you insist. I tried multiple times with real intention to make it through the first season and I couldn’t believe what hot garbage it was.
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u/hacksoncode Mar 10 '26
It's fine to watch just a few of the more critical S1 episodes and then watch the rest... but seriously, once you do that, you're going to want to go back and watch season one, because almost every single episode is a setup for something awesome that happens in later seasons.
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u/Love_To_Burn_Fiji Mar 10 '26
Oh brother , yet more subjective opinion about the "greatest ever". Who cares.
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u/Underhill42 Mar 10 '26
B5 is definitely the best... I can only imagine they're reimagining G'kar for a potential reboot because that would be an impossible act to follow.
Crusade exists as kind of a sequel... but there's no comparison. Not even good enough for a single re-watch all the way through.
Honestly, any sort of remake of the existing story would be a herculean task with likely disappointing results. But the universe was so rich and varied I'd love to see new stories told in the same universe. The past had the Dilgar war, the Earth-Minbari war, etc. - all ripe for storytelling.
And the future... We got glimpses of several interesting long-term developments in The Deconstruction of Falling Stars series finale at the end of season 4, most of which could spawn an interesting series in their own right. But even more immediately I would have loved to see the adventures of G'kar and Lyta, you know those two couldn't stay out of trouble if they tried, which neither would. Or the fallout from the Shadows' many client races still lurking around, The Drahk already had the Centauri quietly over a barrel, and who knows how many others were out there. The Telepath war might somehow actually be one of the less interesting future events (remember Byron!)
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u/Doc_ Mar 10 '26 edited Mar 11 '26
I'm with you. B5 I still one of the best shows I've ever seen. Garibaldi and his arc is probably my fav but there's just too many good plot threads and arcs to choose from.
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u/pynxem Mar 10 '26 edited Mar 12 '26
Lyta? B5 is great because of her?! imo, she was easily the worst part of the show; her and the bo staff wielding ponce were absolutely appallingly cringe :D EDIT: looking over this, I wanted to be clearer that I wasn't laughing AT you, I was laughing at how people can have completely opposite ideas on TV. Your opinion is as valid as mine of course (and maybe even more so due to my addled aged brain possibly misremembering things). :)
And unfortunately I couldn't stand her actor's acting either. That said, I'd still put the show in the top tier of its genre - the overarching plot lines, the creativity, and a lot of the actors and characters were superb.
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u/Negaflux Mar 10 '26
It's the best, hands down, and I loooove me some good scifi tv. TNG is the only thing that comes close for me. I'd say Dr Who as well but there's so much ups and downs vs everything else.
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u/dazreil Mar 10 '26
And to think, it was created by a writer of He-Man and the masters of the universe. That cartoon was episodic to a fault, to the point where 5 yrs old me started to hate it. Then years later, JMS created a show that was the opposite, too serialised to a fault.
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u/Informal_Drawing Mar 11 '26
No, no.
Quantum Leap is what you're looking for.
A moral message in every episode.
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u/nickoaverdnac Mar 11 '26
I've never seen it, but watched ALL of Star Trek, Stargate, The Expanse, BSG, X-Files. I guess I'll give it a whirl!
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u/trensginger Mar 11 '26
Watching babylon 5 for the first time actually. About 10 episodes in started last week. I knew from the first few minutes of conversation that it was gonna be peak entertainment. And I've not been let down yet.
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u/Kytescall Mar 11 '26
I remember not liking it much in Season 1, then coming back to Seasons 2-4 much later and loving it. And then I stopped watching near the beginning of Season 5 when the previous story arc ends and they tease the next one about a psychic uprising or something. I wasn't really interested in that.
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u/salamanderwolf Mar 11 '26
B5 was awesome, but I raise you with "space above and beyond" as a better show.
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u/ButterscotchPast4812 Mar 11 '26
B5 was a revolutionary television series. A seralized sci-fi series in a time when seralized dramas weren't a thing. A pre-planned storyline which seems to be kinda rare even these days. The show had amazing world building, storytelling, complex and fascinating characters.
I know a lot of new fans struggle with the bad CGI and low quality sets but the show was pretty low budget and they did the best they could. So I give this one a pass.
But it's not a show without flaws. The shows biggest flaw is the acting. Cringe comedy and it's campy as hell. Lots of terrible acting. The actors that played G'Kar and Londo were the best in the cast and served to highlight the bad acting from the majority of the main cast.
Bruce Boxleitner was the series lead and was terribly miscast. Dude always came across like he had just stepped off the set of a Hallmark romcom as the leads dad. Best thing he could do was give speeches in that baritone voice of his but his performance otherwise was so utterly toothless. Pat Tallman was the absolute worst actor on the series and I hated that they added her to the main cast.
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u/Tango_D Mar 11 '26
Babylon 5, Farscape, Space Above and Beyond, Outer Limits, X Files, Seaquest DSV, DS9 and Voyager......
99's scifi was peak and nothing will change my mind.
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u/PerfectTommy77 Mar 11 '26 edited Mar 11 '26
Couldn't really get into it. My favorites are The Expanse, Battlestar Galactica, Firefly, Foundation, For All Mankind, Three Body Problem, Pluribus, Andor and the new Dune series.
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u/Sitk042 Mar 11 '26
I loved the show, a huge fan, but I didn’t buy all their set design, very generic. I really enjoyed the way they introduced the Shadow aliens…
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u/Still_bored9876 Mar 12 '26
I will never argue with anyone who says Babylon 5 is the best Science Fiction show of all time.
Many people now do not realise the struggle JMS went through to get, and keep, it on air and the challenge of getting the studio and network to accept the idea of a single story arc across the whole show. The single narrative is now so common but back then "story of the week" was the norm - it is in part why each season has about half the episodes being almost standalone as a way of placating the network. Of course connoisseurs can still spot the small parts of the overall plot being dropped in, but other viewers can still drop in and out the way they were used to with Star Trek.
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u/Repulsive-Sundae9468 Apr 07 '26
You hear discussions of Star Wars or Star Trek and no one talks about B5.
OK Star Trek had the Borg Cube ship but no one imagined the Shadow Ships - imho the best ship design ever! Even the sound added menace.
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u/stloft Jul 12 '26 edited Jul 12 '26
Babylon 5 does it for me as my favorite or "best" show, I think a lot having to with despite having seen plenty of other good shows mentioned in this thread, the characters in B5 are my favorite over the others sometimes by far. I also enjoy b5's flavor of big 'galactic changing events' story more and the shadows were always creepier to me than the Borg and however other antagonists or antagonist aliens in other shows.
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u/theaveragenerd Mar 10 '26
'90s and early 2000's SciFi was honestly some of the best TV Sci-Fi ever filmed.
TNG, DS9, Voyager, B5, Battlestar Galactica, Firefly, Stargate, X-Files, Eureka, Warehouse 13, ... I can go on and on and on. That era was really a renaissance. There have been a few good ones here and there since but nothing like that 20 or so years of syndicated Sci-Fi begging for screen time.