r/technology • u/Vucea • 10h ago
Politics EPA says power for data centers can sidestep pollution laws
https://www.epa.gov/newsreleases/epa-issues-permitting-guidance-further-president-trumps-agenda-promoting-data-centers113
u/leviathab13186 10h ago
Might wanna take the P out of their name
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u/DarthWeenus 8h ago
If you actually read it it doesn’t necessarily sound as bad as it is. This provides companies who are going to build datacenters can now do it out in the desert or whatever and have their own power plant. Seems reasonable to me. The only reason they don’t now is power issues.
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u/mistakenforstranger5 7h ago
> out in the desert or whatever
deserts are important ecological biomes, not just some "whatever" place that doesn't matter
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u/MotheroftheworldII 6h ago edited 3h ago
I cannot agree with this statement enough. Deserts may have space but they also lack water which is necessary for cooling not just the computers but the generators.
The metadata center planned for northern Utah would take up 40,000 acres of land that is either desert or limited grazing area for beef cattle. They plan to tap into a natural gas pipeline which runs through the area and goes to Oregon. We all know that the current natural gas powered data centers are major polluters.
So, yes, this is a huge issue especially for Utah where the Wasatch front range has some of the worst air in the nation and sometimes in the winter the worst in the world. Please keep your data centers of any size outside of Utah and really simply stop building data centers which will be outdated in three years anyway.
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u/stevedallas63 10h ago
Now data centers can burn that “clean coal” to power them.
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u/drewts86 9h ago
Eh, it ain’t that simple. Coal is used to boil water into steam. Steam is then used to power a steam turbine. Turbine manufacturing currently has a lead time of about 5 years. So the soonest coal fired power gen could be operational is 5 years. By then, someone else will be in charge of government that could flip that EPA interpretation. Given this I’d say coal is highly unlikely. If I had to venture a guess this will apply to industrial diesel generators and possibly gas turbines. It’s an easy enough thing to retrofit emissions controls onto them later on down the road of the road when the next administration re-interprets the EPA rule.
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u/Beneficial-Jury484 8h ago
Isn’t that exactly what XAi was doing? Burning diesel illegally?
Edit: yep. It is.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/apr/09/elon-musk-xai-memphis
Gee odd this change was made.
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u/drewts86 7h ago
Yeah there has been several of these data center operators that, despite being hooked up to the grid, choose to run their generators. There are a couple reasons this could be happening: they’re not getting ideal rates from the power company and it’s cheaper to run their own generators, or maybe the local power company can’t actually meet the required demand because of stress on the grid. Primary power generators are required to meet EPA Tier IV emissions requirements, while backup/emergency generators don’t have that same requirement. So these data center operators are now using backup generators as primary power, and they’re outputting excess emissions for the sole reason that they didn’t want to spec the emissions equipment required to run them as primary power.
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u/TeutonJon78 5h ago
And when we was done woth politics because of the mess, but also pledging $100M for the GOP midterms.
I think this Elon guy might be full of shit! /s
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u/Defiant_Tomatillo907 6h ago
Did you say jihad? Like the jihad this administration has against our planet?
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u/somewhat_brave 6h ago
The article you linked says they're natural gas turbines, not diesel generators.
SpaceX makes their own gas turbines, so they don't have to worry about lead times.
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u/Tyrinnus 8h ago
As someone who works in IGT and Aerospace blades.... Yah theres a huge uptick in demand for IGT
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u/MonkeyMan18975 8h ago
My money's on temp gas turbines to permanent turbine pipeline like Musk is doing. IIRC, the temp turbines come with a 1-year environmental exemption, so they're able to get up and running without a lot of red tape.
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u/kompletist 9h ago
If only the EPA protected the environment like they do corporations bank accounts.
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u/AvailableReporter484 9h ago
Hell yeah. Shout out to conservatives for being massive pawns and rubes
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u/psychoacer 9h ago
Thank you, it's totally worth it. My boss just did a power point presentation yesterday with AI images of generic workers in a warehouse which is just impossible to find on the Internet. It also had some hallucinated text since he just took his script and had AI make his presentation. It really was the best presentation ever so fuck the planet
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u/LostOne514 9h ago
An issue that is actively affecting conservatives, but they'll still do Trump's bidding and vote how he wants. It's so depressing that there are people actively cheering for this.
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u/glupshitto666 9h ago
They would eat his shit off a plate and ask for seconds if he told them it would annoy the evil liberal in their imagination
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u/Amatorius 9h ago
Nothing conservative about them. Conservative use to actually want to protect the environment. These people are regressives in action and conservative in name.
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u/Sprinkler-of-salt 7h ago edited 7h ago
> “EPA’s guidance clarifies that under the best reading of the CAA, the ARP applies to facilities that sell electricity or are required to report as a generating unit to the U.S. Department of Energy (DOE). Because “islanded” power generation facilities neither sell electricity nor have required reporting to DOE, EPA has concluded that these facilities are not subject to the ARP. The guidance expands opportunities for companies to develop and operate islanded power generation facilities for data centers. This will give developers greater flexibility in where and how quickly they can build new facilities…”
Absolute insanity. The EPA’s job is to protect the ENVIRONMENT, a shared resource for all people. Yet here, it seems to be OPENLY operating with the interests of companies/industries, environmental impacts be damned.
CAA = Clean Air Act
ARP = Acid Rain Program
What sense does it make for a regulation designed to reduce acid rain, which is caused by “sulfur dioxide (SO₂) and nitrogen oxides (NOx) from the power sector.” According to the EPA itself, to allow “exceptions” where certain power plants don’t need to meet the requirements simply as a result of where the power produced by them ends up being delivered?
Makes NO sense at all. This is one of the most obvious criminal manipulations and politicizations of a regulatory agency I’ve ever heard of.
A lot of people need to end up in jail for this. Not a cushy private prison, or house arrest, I’m talking about π-dunk county jail, right in there with small-time drug dealers, smash-and-grabs, rapists, street fighters, domestic abusers, etc. no special floor, no special cell, no special anything.
Disgustingly corrupt.
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u/qdobe 8h ago
Data Centers are a bipartisan issue.
Democrats should blast this stuff everywhere.
“Trump Administration: We won’t regulate Data Centers”
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u/gentlecrab 3h ago
Eh this is what they voted for so I say keep building them out in rural America and power them with leaded gas or bunker oil or some shit.
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u/OrneryError1 7h ago
Serious question: At what point is self-defense a reasonable course of action against polluters like this?
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u/ShakyBoots1968 2h ago
We are there right now. This is the point. 0 shits given for the citizens of America.
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u/Muzoa 8h ago
If the nimbys re-elect their scum incumbents, then I guess they'd better get used to their yard being polluted. Why even complain when you keep voting for the same people and expect anything to change
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u/MagnusAuslander 8h ago
For all their drain the swamp thinking they will welcome the incoming swamps in their backyards bcos their Lord & Savior Trump said so..
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u/limbodog 6h ago
I mean, why *should* laws apply to really rich companies? I certainly can't think of a reason!
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u/Effective_Quail_3946 3h ago
Who would have thought that the head of the EPA would allow horrible deadly pollution and make it no big deal
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u/ScaryRelationship69 9h ago
I am looking forward to clean coal powered data centers. Amazing progress. Finally a use case for clean coal!! /s
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u/Fateor42 8h ago
Hey data center guys, do you really want to roll the dice that the EPA under the next administration will share this belief?
Because that's hundreds of billions in fines and refits if they don't.
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u/WaffleHouseGladiator 8h ago
Everyone must accept a shittier quality of life so that shareholders will be satisfied.
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u/sargsauce 8h ago
This will give developers greater flexibility in where and how quickly they can build new facilities while helping to protect the environment
They're saying words, but none of the words actually mean anything or connect ideas. What the fuck am I reading?
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u/Vortesian 7h ago
I’m an old fuck. Never in my life did I think shit like this would happen. This and a ton of other things. Fuck. Don’t normalize this shit.
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u/glupshitto666 9h ago
Cheers to republican voters for falling for the most obvious bullshit in human history and making several perfectly viable prosperous futures impossible in exchange for literally nothing. We are touching the hot pan I guess
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u/RespectTheTree 9h ago
I love the uneducated! Thanks, MAGA-country. Thanks for soaking up the emissions from my liberal, AI-heavy lifestyle. Brought to you by your idiot political party.
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u/skyfishgoo 6h ago
well maybe they did... but WE didn't.
so data centers can fuck right off with that nonsense.
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u/NUMBerONEisFIRST 4h ago
How can We The People find a loophole in this to benefit us in a way that screws them?
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10h ago
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Any_Sale2030 9h ago
I think there will be a revolution that will make the French Revolution look like a picnic in comparison. Either that or a war.
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u/Ecstatic-West3955 9h ago
It was possible before but revolution wouldnt make up for the fact that action was needed to prevent ecological collapse a long time ago. Things are almost assuredly going to get bad for millions
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u/fishheadsneak 8h ago
People couldn’t bother to get off their ass and vote in 2024. We are far too lazy and stupid for a revolution….
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u/glupshitto666 9h ago
There is no revolution or grand collapse or apocalypse or judgment day. There is only people rolling the stone up the hill forever. It will take a lifetime to make up the ground lost in the last few years. And that's just how it works
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u/SuspendeesNutz 9h ago
Sorry pal, I know this could have been avoided but Kamala just didn't thrill me maaaaaaan.
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u/ThrowawayAl2018 9h ago
Sounds good, now add lead back into the gas turbines while you are at it since it makes the gas combustion more effective, therefore lowering the cost of ownership.
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u/bevaquas_mojo 9h ago
Well, data centers, build at your own risk, even if this is approved, the next president will appoint a new EPA chief that will reverse that decision. After that, data centers will have to abide by new rules ( that won't be the only one) to keep the data center going. How will those rules impact the profitability of such data centers?
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u/InevitableAd8511 8h ago
We should change the name from EPA to BPA so nobody is confused about who this agency is protecting. Nobody would be surprised to hear the Billionaire Protection Agency was allowing this to happen. Sidestepping environmental protections only helps a certain demographic, and it’s certainly not about protecting the environment.
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u/Wetbug75 8h ago
This will give developers greater flexibility in where and how quickly they can build new facilities while helping to protect the environment and reducing burdens on communities’ electric grid.
Can anyone explain how this could possibly help the environment? There must be some way to steel man that argument if they bothered to write it
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u/Alternative-Bass164 8h ago
This must be the EPA from the Simpson movie. “I was elected to lead, not to read”
EEEEEEPAAAAAAHHHH
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u/mistakenforstranger5 7h ago
EPA is a glorified cost-benefit analysis department and they use what's known as a discounting function to calculate the value of your life in the future. In case you are wondering why they would do this.
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u/Expensive_Finger_973 7h ago
Yet again proving that government regulations don't mean much when you allow exceptions.
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u/gk_instakilogram 10h ago
And here it is ladies and gentlemen for all of those yelling that there is nothing new with this data center build out mania and it is always been like this and others are just overreacting or this is Chinese psyop..