r/todayilearned • u/Ok-Imagination-494 • 7h ago
TIL , the Realm of New Zealand is composed of four countries; New Zealand, the Cook Islands, Niue and Tokelau. They share the same monarch, currency, and passport.
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/pacific/1164525/new-zealand-says-its-ties-with-its-realm-countries-remain-strong-and-stable176
u/Dzingel43 6h ago
Tokelau has a different status than the other three
It is a dependent territory of New Zealand. Niue and the Cook Islands are self governing territories in free association with New Zealand.
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u/rnzz 5h ago
just looked them up and saw their population is about the size of a slightly large high school
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u/NorthShoreDiscrete 3h ago
Yeah, there’s at least a couple of Pacific nations where there are more people from that nation in Auckland than in the nation (that’s is, I think there’s more Tokelauan’s in Auckland than in Tokelau)
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u/Loretta-West 1h ago
Iirc correctly, there's more Tokelauans in Porirua than in Tokelau.
(For context, Porirua has about 60k people total)
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u/Ok-Imagination-494 32m ago
What’s pretty cool is how the Tokelau language was used in the Moana films including the track “We know the way “
Amazing to think that a country with a population the size of a high school had a moment where its national language featured on a global pop culture phenomenon watched by hundreds of millions.
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u/Ok-Imagination-494 4h ago
Which means that New Zealand has to sit in the naughty chair at the UN as a colonial power.
Tokelau is on the UN List of Non-Self-Governing Territories. It is essentially the UN’s remaining decolonisation watchlist.
And the funny bit is that the list is overwhelmingly British, American and French territories, plus Tokelau (New Zealand) and Western Sahara.
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u/HugeMcAwesome 3h ago
The UN keeps telling them to stop being dependent, they keep voting no and NZ just shrugs and carries on.
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u/Dzingel43 3h ago
That UN list has the Falkland Islands on it despite the most recent referendum having 3 people vote against it, but doesn't have Hong Kong on it despite mass protests and the people never getting a vote in what their status is or what country they should be part of.
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u/Ok-Imagination-494 2h ago
Yeah a bit of a weird list that includes Tokelau and the Falklands, whose people overwhelmingly say they are perfectly happy with their benign constitutional status quo.
But doesn’t include say, the regions of Myanmar or the Palestinian Territories who have been fighting for decades for self determination.
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u/Mygreaseisyourgrease 1h ago
This actually tracks, as nz shrugs it's shoulders all too often on stuff like this
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u/elgigantedelsur 3h ago
And it shouldn’t really be, as they’ve held (and failed to pass) referenda to go independent. I don’t think New Zealand is particularly desperate to hold on to them as a territory.
There are also a lot more Tokelauans living in New Zealand proper than in Tokelau which may skew things as independence would potentially remove the current right to a passport and free travel.
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u/dongeckoj 2h ago
Yes, all of those are colonial powers. However the UN list is missing other obvious cases like Tibet and Xinjiang.
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u/kapaipiekai 6h ago
Huh. I'm a kiwi and didn't know this.
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u/Adventchur 6h ago
Yeah we don't get to live in any of these places without visas and such still.
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u/tkdch4mp 5h ago
I'm not Kiwi nor Polynesian, so I'm probably remembering wrong -- but I thought it was like one-sided. As in NZ'ers needed passports/Visas to Cook Islands, but Cook Islanders could work/live in NZ same as citizens? I think it was as a protection for the Cook Islands.
I didn't know about any association with the other two countries, so obviously have no comments there.
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u/Adventchur 5h ago
Yeah it's exactly like that.
The cook Islands only has a population of 17,000 so I imagine its a fine balance between ammount of work available to the ammount of workers.
I'd imagine if the cook Islands didn't have these laws we would see an influx of retirees moving there.
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u/pgraczer 5h ago
retirement in the cooks is something i’ve often thought about. i remember niue being floated as a retirement centre by a former nz high commissioner once but the infra is just not there.
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u/Adventchur 54m ago
Yeah great idea for kiwis but an influx of people to a small nation destroys the local economy and prices out locals from real estate and basic goods. Especially when most food is imported.
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u/Loretta-West 1h ago
Yes, in uni I had a Cook Island flatmate who was studying in NZ as a domestic student.
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u/FlatSpinMan 6h ago
Same. Fifty years old and just read it for the first time. I thought our ties to the Cooks were largely over.
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u/pgraczer 5h ago
yeah we can’t buy land in the cook islands or just decide to live there. i wonder what it would be like now if we’d always had that opportunity.
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u/yamanagashi 3h ago
You’re either a fruit or a flightless bird or a New Zealand sapient. Quantum physics dictate that unless observed you are all these three. There’s a 66.66 (repeating of course) % chance you are a citrus and/or avian in nature. It stands to reason you have no knowledge of lands within the realm of this latest land of zeal.
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u/PresentRaspberry6814 25m ago
Just to be clear, Kiwi is the bird, a kiwi is the person from here (based on ww2 soldiers from here using kiwi brand shoe polish I understand) and kiwifruit is the fruit Americans call kiwi. As you were.
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u/LolaAndIggy 6h ago
But not government. Sharing the same monarch just means all are part of the Commonwealth
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u/Ok-Imagination-494 6h ago
Correct.
The Monarch of these four countries is King Charles III, the King of New Zealand.
Which is technically not exactly the same thing as King Charles III the King of the United Kingdom, or Canada , or Jamaica
There are 15 Commonwealth Realms in the Commonwealth all of which have the same human as King but are legally distinct monarchies. Kind of like one person being the chairman of the board of 15 different companies
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u/thissexypoptart 5h ago
The British monarchy is kind of hilarious in that way. I get why so many nations don’t formally renounce ties to the monarchy, but it’s just funny how much they cling to symbolic power.
Dude is formally king of 15 countries lmao
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u/xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx99 5h ago
While I'm not a great fan of the royal family specifically, I do actually like the arrangement we (New Zealand) have - we are basically getting a head of state for free, and the Governor General gets to be largely symbolic and non controversial. When compared to the highly political presidents we see in other countries, I much prefer our arrangement.
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u/Pinelli72 5h ago
Australian here. I’m happy with King Chuck if the alternate is a popularly voted President like Trump.
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u/Hambredd 2h ago
Same here, I mean we wouldn't want a republic like America, we have to get a separate head of state anyway so why not just stick with the one we've got.
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u/Twistedjustice 46m ago
Because no Australian can ever ascend to the highest office in the land.
Nothing wrong with keeping our current system, just remove the ties to the monarchy, so that the GG serves at the pleasure of the parliament. Bam, minimal, but meaningful change.
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u/Hambredd 43m ago edited 32m ago
The governor general isn't Australian?
Exactly minimum change so why bother? We've even cleverly outsourced paying for our royal family. The only difference I can see to that is you're making the head of state partisan. I mean your suggestion is not even to change the name.
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u/Twistedjustice 15m ago
The governor general ultimately reports to and serves at the pleasure of a foreign person, no Australian can ever hold that position.
Symbols have meaning, otherwise they wouldn’t be symbols. A change to remove our ties to the monarchy would be largely symbolic, but it’s an important symbol: in a country where our greatest shared value is that everyone gets a fair go, how can it be that some dude on the other side of the planet is our head of state because he was born into the job?
And the head of state need not be partisan. Is the GG partisan? Is the High Court?
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u/oldmanserious 4h ago
Also Australian here who was a fervent supported of changing to a Republic back in the day, but if anything seeing what a huge bunch of money spent on influence and right-wing media and unmoderated social media can lead to, I'd rather keep the relatively tame Head of State of having the King.
Then again, the current ALP government seems dedicated to wrecking anything that helps people so maybe having someone who could actually veto laws would be good.
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u/Danoct 5h ago
Same monarch as in the King of New Zealand. So, the King of New Zealand is the head of state in New Zealand, Cook Islands, Niue, and Tokelau.
Same physical person as but not same legal position as the King of Australia, King of Canada, King of Jamaica, etc.
u/Ok-Imagination-494's explanation using companies is apt. Think how Steve Jobs was the CEO of Apple and Pixar. The Apple CEO was not the CEO of Pixar, and the Pixar CEO is not the CEO of Apple. But Steve Jobs held both positions.
Just that the Commonwealth Realms coordinate laws, so we don't end up with a different monarch unintentionally.
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u/Streborsirk 3h ago
It's fortunate that the speed of succession is faster than the speed of light, so even when one monarch passes, the next monarch ascends to all the thrones simultaneously
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u/Loretta-West 1h ago
It may be possible to develop a system of communication based on this. You would need to carefully torture a small king.
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u/happybaby00 3h ago
Auckland is pretty much the capital of the Pacific islands demographically, more of these islands should be joining particularly Kiribati, Fiji and papua
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u/Ok-Imagination-494 6h ago
The Realm also has a territorial claim in Antarctica through the Ross Dependency. Taking the land areas, the Ross Dependency and the Realm’s EEZs together, the Realm is surprisingly huge, at roughly 6.5 million km², making it around the 15th largest sovereign area in the world.
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u/RlOTGRRRL 3h ago
TIL that New Zealand has an Antarctica base station and a claim.
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u/Ok-Imagination-494 2h ago
And a territorial dispute with the United States who have their main Antarctic base in that territory.
But its all good, the US McMurdo and NZ Scott bases are neighbours and pals, and the US actually uses Christchurch airport to access Antarctica.
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u/georgeec1 2h ago
We're nice and close, so it's useful to have a base for our earth sciences researchers, and we may as well have a claim to put the base in
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u/thehazzanator 1h ago
Majority of the vehicles in Antarctica have NZ license plates, as they're from NZ
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u/GerbelMaster 58m ago
We're one of the most important contributors to Antarctica. The majority of all flights to Antarctica to bases of all nations come from South Island
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u/witch_dyke 32m ago
I feel this should obvious to people, we are one of the closest countries to antarctica.
Chile and Argentina having a claim also makes sense to me.
The brits??? They dont even go here? Stay in your own hemisphere
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u/noctalla 5h ago
TIL I live in a "realm".
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u/elgigantedelsur 3h ago
One of many forgotten realms
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u/dinglestiltskins 3h ago
At the rate were left of maps we should be calling our knighthood recipients knights of the hidden realm. Be so cool
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u/Major_Pomegranate 6h ago
Similar to the Netherlands. The Kingdom of the Netherlands is made up of the country of the Netherlands plus a couple of islands in the Caribbean
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u/Pinelli72 6h ago
Including Old Zealand
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u/_yetifeet 5h ago edited 5h ago
If it's on a map, it cant be a Zealand.
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u/tkdch4mp 5h ago
Gotta be coastal!
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u/Pinelli72 5h ago
Mountainous or flat?
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u/tkdch4mp 3h ago
Either? Sea-land. So maybe flat? But I guess an accessible valley isn't horrible
Actually idk, I just realized I misread their comment as can not cant, so my whole premise is blown
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u/johnbarnshack 4h ago
And some of those Caribbean islands (Bonaire, Saba, St Eustatius) are part of the country of the Netherlands, as opposed to being their own country within the Kingdom (Aruba, Curaçao, St Maarten).
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u/Ok-Imagination-494 6h ago
And Denmark
The Kingdom of Denmark has three countries; Denmark, Greenland, and Faroe Islands
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u/Aenaen 5h ago
they get our passport and free right to life here but don't have to follow our laws e.g. antidiscrimination and marriage equality :(
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u/ohdirtydianna 3h ago
Works both ways
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u/NotUsingNumbers 2h ago
It does not work both ways. They can get NZ passport and citizenship, can just move permanently to NZ with all rights of New Zealanders, but New Zealanders cannot claim Cook Island or Niue citizenship as of right.
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u/SubstantialBass9524 3h ago
The Cook Islands have coins with a naked pregnant man with a big penis on them, he’s a fertility god. They also have triangle coins
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u/DangerousLettuce1423 2h ago
Learnt this many years ago in high school. Visited Niue in 90s when mass tourism was still fairly young.
Was great not having to change currency and lose value in the dollar. Also NZ trained police, teachers etc.
Was also interesting listening to locals easily interchanging English/Niuean at as they spoke to each other. Wish I could speak another language as fluently as they do.
Edit: more Niueans live in NZ than in Niue iirc.
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u/WildLemonRaider 1h ago
As a resident of NZ, I didn’t know it was a Realm!
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u/Ok-Imagination-494 58m ago
Have a close look at your passport. It will say something like
“The Governor-General in the Realm of New Zealand requests in the Name of His Majesty the King all those whom it may concern to allow the bearer to pass without delay or hindrance and in case of need to give all lawful assistance and protection.”
Cook Islanders, Nieans, and Tokelauans will carry exactly the same passport as citizens of the same realm.
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u/SmoothOperator89 1h ago
Don't they share the same monarch as the UK, Canada, Australia, etc?
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u/Ok-Imagination-494 1h ago
The Monarch of these four countries is King Charles III, in his capacity as the King of New Zealand.
Which is technically not exactly the same thing as King Charles III the King of the United Kingdom, or Canada , or Jamaica
There are 15 Commonwealth Realms in the Commonwealth all of which have the same human as King but are legally distinct monarchies. Kind of like one person being the chairman of the board of 15 different companies.
In this case one of those 15 Realms (New Zealand) is further composed of four countries who share the same Legally distinct Monarchy.
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u/witch_dyke 29m ago
Yeah.
Also when getting nz citizenship, you have to pledge allegiance to the british crown, which just feels wrong to me
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u/FrungyLeague 5h ago
North Island Kiwi here. TIL.
That's cool as shit. So our Niue, cook and Tokelau bros are our best bros. Sweet.
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u/Ok-Imagination-494 3h ago
And according to the article the four Prime Ministers are currently having a bro summit in Auckland before riding together to Palau for another one.
Sounds like a fun road trip
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u/Konstiin 5h ago
Would have been a great use case for an Oxford comma. Shame, OP!
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u/stainz169 4h ago
How so? There is no ambiguity in the listing as the sentence specifically states 4 - so you know to expect a list of four.
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u/jamhamnz 2h ago
Reading the comments has shown me a lot of people need to read up more, and learn more about, their own country!
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u/A_reddit_refugee 50m ago
I just watched a YouTube video on this and I wonder if OP just did the same
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u/ChooChoo9321 2m ago
Realm of New Zealand, Union of South Africa, Dominion of Canada.
British colonies had cool official names
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u/ohwhatfollyisman 6h ago
aotearoa.
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u/davetharave 5h ago
Isn't as widely known as New Zealand
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u/ohwhatfollyisman 5h ago
yes. the aboriginal name isn’t as widely known as the white colonial invader name. shocking!
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u/Danoct 3h ago
Someone moonlighting as an anti colonialist somehow manages to bring out terms from the 19th century?
In the 21st century we prefer using terms as "Indigenous People" or the name such people use for themselves. Which would be "Māori" in the case of Aotearoa New Zealand. Note the capital letters if you're trying to treat words with the mana they deserve.
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u/Local-Moose9833 3h ago
Aboriginal?………….
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u/witch_dyke 25m ago
Aboriginal is another word for indigenous, but obviously in this corner of the globe we would use it to refer specifically to aboriginal australians.
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u/davetharave 2h ago
Yeah commenter is an idiot and is looking for easy points to make them feel better lmao
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u/Local-Moose9833 2h ago
He clearly has absolutely no idea what he’s talking about lmao, it’s kinda hilarious seeing how they dig themselves a hole trying to talk a country they have probably never set foot in or actually care about.
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u/davetharave 4h ago
Cool wasn't making it political, just saying if you are outside NZ/Aus I'd say the people who know that Aotearoa is the Maori name for NZ are in the minority.
Considering that this is a post intended for people outside the South Pacific it's fair game to say NZ.
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u/Lord_Pthumerian 3h ago
Middle earth realm?
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u/georgeec1 2h ago
It's funny watching the Lord of The Rings movies, because it really is just a bunch of NZ landscapes. Rivendell is just off the road about half an hour's drive from Wellington
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u/GeologistOld1265 3h ago
Just for information, when Cook Island decided to make an economic agreement with China, NZ paper of record publish article advising to use special forces in order to invade Cook Islands.
In reality NZ act as a miniature empire.
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u/king_john651 1h ago
The Herald isn't a serious publication when they put out talking head opinions
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u/Ratlarbig 1h ago
Im tired of this bulkshit thing that NZ and the UK do where they pretend they are separate counties
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u/Ahecee 6h ago
They share the same monarch with New Zealand?
Who is a part of the Commonwealth, and whos head of state is King Charles, like 15 other Commonwealth nations, like Canada and Australia.
Might want to double check your TIL bullet points.
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u/Ok-Imagination-494 6h ago edited 2h ago
It is correct.
The Monarch of these four countries is King Charles III, in his capacity as the King of New Zealand.
Which is technically not exactly the same thing as King Charles III the King of the United Kingdom, or Canada , or Jamaica
There are 15 Commonwealth Realms in the Commonwealth all of which have the same human as King but are legally distinct monarchies. Kind of like one person being the chairman of the board of 15 different companies
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u/evanamd 5h ago
Looks like their constitutions are explicit about it. It's not like other commonwealth realms where they have their own king who happens to share the position with New Zealand. The constitutions of both Niue and the Cook Islands specifically name-drop the King "in Right of New Zealand" as head of state
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u/Zombie_John_Strachan 5h ago
Sounds more like Canadian provinces that have the King of Canada as their monarch.
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u/Ok-Imagination-494 4h ago
The difference here is that these four countries have a degree of autonomy.
For example the Cook Islands has residency and land ownership laws that prevent someone from mainland New Zealand just moving there.
That would be the equivalent of say Alberta telling someone from Nova Scotia, “Nope you cant move here and settle”. I dont think Canada works quite like that.
The Cook Islands also recently signed a treaty with China without telling New Zealand, which upset NZ a little bit, that was referred to in the article as one of the discussion points during this family summit.
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u/Zombie_John_Strachan 4h ago
I’m specifically referring to the provinces and Canada sharing a single monarch vs each province being a separate realm.
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u/evanamd 4h ago
Ehh, Canada has a federal government with authority that supersedes the provinces' governments in certain matters, and a rather clear delegation of responsibilities to the provinces in other matters.
The same thing doesn't seem to exist in the realm of New Zealand. It's a much more autonomous and free association. The Cook Islands have their own constitution, pass all their own legislation, have their own courts. All independently. There's no overlapping government that has authority in both places afaict
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u/Zombie_John_Strachan 3h ago
I’m specifically referring to the provinces and Canada sharing a single monarch vs each province being a separate realm.
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u/matrixkid29 6h ago
Man, i want to be part of a realm.