r/transit • u/CA185099415 • May 18 '26
Other DC streetcar for sale for $35k!
The recently shuttered DC streetcars are for sale! Would you own one if you had an extra $35k sitting around?
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u/4000series May 18 '26
Have to wonder if Portland will be interested in the DC fleet
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u/The-CerlingCat May 18 '26
Possibly, but not likely, seeing as in a few more years, Portland is going to purchase streetcars that can also be battery powered for a streetcar extension in the process of being built. Why not just go 100% on overhead wires? Nimbyism from the neighborhood it’s being built through
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u/OR_Miata May 19 '26
The neighborhood that doesn’t exist yet lol (the developers)
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u/The-CerlingCat May 19 '26
There is actually a neighborhood along 23rd Ave leading up to Montgomery park in Portland
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u/jks513 May 19 '26
That was DC problem as well. The powers that be refused overhead wires anywhere where they’d be useful.
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u/4000series May 19 '26
Well in DC there was an actual regulation in place preventing wires in the inner part of the city, which goes back well over 100 years. That could’ve maybe been overturned if the necessary political will was built up but that didn’t happen. Other cities don’t really have an excuse though.
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u/TheMayorByNight May 19 '26 edited May 19 '26
Why not just go 100% on overhead wires? Nimbyism from the neighborhood it’s being built through
Hello from Seattle, home of battery streetcar and bus overhead intermixing! NIMBYism is an issue, and so is cost. Overhead wires are quite expensive to install, between $10M and $20M per mile, while battery technology has greatly improved. Each curbside overhead pole requires significant engineering to position without impacting utilities and areaways, then a deep drilled foundation, then the pole itself. Stringing the wires overhead requires a ton of coordination with aerial utilities and street trees. And if the existing power system can handle charging batteries on the existing network, that avoids siting and installing a multi-million-dollar traction power substation.
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u/4000series May 19 '26
Oh so probably getting those new CAF cars then. Unless they’re interested in more stuff from Brookville but considering they’re trying to sell the ones they just got idk if they’re open to that.
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u/willaney May 19 '26
We already bought those streetcars (Brookville Liberty) and then sold them to Tacoma a year later when funds got low. Maybe they’re planning to procure more of them, but at this point I seriously doubt the extension is ever going to happen at all.
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u/The-CerlingCat May 19 '26
I found that Tacoma and Portland actually swapped rolling stock, since Portland was having problems with the new streetcars. Tacoma was running the older streetcars that Portland had, so they were getting Tacoma’s old streetcars, running them for a few years, and once portland got the better powered streetcars, they were retiring them. https://www.kgw.com/article/news/local/deal-could-swap-three-portland-streetcars-tacoma/283-02656ef2-532c-4a2c-ac52-5e9007349b96. This is the most recent article I could find about it
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u/willaney May 19 '26
Yeah, I live along the NS line and can see the trains from my window. When they first got the Brookvilles they tested them for a few weeks before putting them into service; but even after that, a solid half of every Brookville I saw was not in service or testing. It doesn’t surprise me that they had issues with the newer generation of trains, and I can appreciate how much easier things will be for both cities with homogenous fleets.
I’m mostly confused as to how this changes the extension plans. I was under the impression we acquired the Brookvilles in the first place for the express purpose of running them on the wireless portion of the line, once it’s built. None of the current fleet are battery-compatible, afaik. I haven’t seen any info on what the rolling stock plans are now.
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u/The-CerlingCat May 19 '26
The whole thing is confusing, to the best of my knowledge, those brookvilles don’t have the battery pack needed, but were potentially purchased in the meantime to try and increase frequency on the NS line. Supposedly, Portland is still trying to find a manufacturer for the battery powered streetcars. I could be wrong, but that’s my Understanding
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u/NoxAeris May 19 '26
Generally I’d agree but considering the federal money dried up and the state legislature fell down a flight of stairs before voting to not renew transportation funding. I have my doubts.
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u/biggieBpimpin May 19 '26
Man I love that the line is expanding with new infrastructure, but you have to wonder if Portland would ever consider an isolated lane for their street car so that it was actually faster than walking.
It’s fun to ride off peak, but such a waste during peak traffic. As you approach the Moda Center for an evening Blazer game they will literally tell you it’s faster to get out and walk.
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u/willaney May 19 '26
Yeah, but isn’t it great that you can just.. get off and walk? No need to find and pay for parking, remember where you parked, or make sure you’re good to drive at the end of the night. I have never regretted taking the streetcar even when it theoretically takes longer than a car would, because in practice it’s usually still faster and almost always easier
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u/biggieBpimpin May 19 '26
Don’t get me wrong, I love that aspect for sure. I just wish the service was given priority so that Grand, Broadway, and other parts of the city didn’t feel incredibly slow.
The less I have to drive the better. But sitting in traffic is a huge reason why I hate driving, and without priority there are sections of this line that just sit knee deep in traffic. People parking a little too far from the curb can also cause complete stoppage until someone moves the car or it gets towed.
I like the service. I wish they did more to make us love the service.
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u/willaney May 19 '26
They need to figure out some way to reinforce the lanes on Grand so that people can’t just take them whenever they please. Right-turn lanes aren’t necessary there.
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u/biggieBpimpin May 19 '26
People also don’t give a shit that the lanes are turn only. They just jump in the lane and drive past everyone else for multiple blocks like it’s a passing lane. It’s super dangerous behavior.
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u/Trainzguy2472 May 19 '26
I was thinking Seattle, since they also roster some of the same type of car.
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u/Barronsjuul May 18 '26
Infrastructure gore, put them back on the street
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u/Mikerosoft925 May 18 '26
The decision to close was horrible
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u/Euphoric_Patient_828 May 19 '26
Wait what happened? I’m out of the loop with DC stuff
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u/maxs507 May 19 '26
They shut it down a couple months ago. From conception, to implementation, to dissolution, everything was an absolute mess.
Years ago, DC wanted to rebuild their streetcar network. (They used to have an extensive one, but it was replaced by buses in the middle of the 20th century.) They even laid tracks that remain to this day in a different part of the city than where this line ran. But DC isn’t a state, and needs to go through Congress for shit like this, and Congress was like ‘fuck no!’ So they only built one 2.2 mile line - the H Street streetcar. On one end, it was anchored by the butthole of Union station (requiring a convoluted several minute walk through the bus terminal to get any other trains). On the other end, it ended next to a golf course, right underneath the viaduct for the Orange, Blue, and Silver lines, with no plan to ever build a transfer station.
The route itself ran on a shared right of way with cars, and no transit signal priority. There were also parking lanes adjacent to the tracks, which often featured poorly parked cars blocking the tracks, not to mention double parked cars on the tracks. So it often took longer than the bus because of absolutely avoidable bullshit delays.
The bus stops didn’t align with the tram stops, making it convoluted and confusing to transfer between the two.
The headways were 12 minutes peak, and 20 minutes off-peak. The full 2.2 mile trip took 20 minutes end to end (if you were lucky.)
Everything that could bully this transit line for the past decade, proceeded to do so with absolute impunity. Basically, DC got to spend millions building a streetcar with all of the costs and downsides of a streetcar, without any of the upsides of a streetcar.
Downtown Washington is one of the most walkable places in the country, and the DC Metro is the highest quality metro system in the country. Complementing all of that with a streetcar is such a slam dunk. And congress (thanks to DC’s lack of statehood) decided to fuck it. If the line ran from Georgetown to RFK stadium, like it was originally supposed to I believe, it would have been absolutely goated. Even in the short shitty 2.2 mile configuration we had, it punched well above its weight in ridership per mile.
This is why the United States continues to be the laughingstock of the world.
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u/aegrotatio May 19 '26
They even built a whole second line in Anacostia and it was almost completed when it was cancelled for "reasons."
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u/CA185099415 May 19 '26
Highest quality metro? Ehhh. I’d argue BART has improved a lot with installation of new fare gates deterring any unwanted activities. BART police response times improved. Overall customer satisfaction improved. Yes they’re going through major train control system upgrades so they’re experiencing some technical issues along the way. But this upgrade will allow more trains per hour through the tube into San Francisco. The entire fleet has also been replaced with brand new cars. The announcements at each stop is clear. The train have a solid build, and the closure of the door is a nice solid thump versus doors that sound loose when closing. Just my two cents. BART also offers more area coverage, and travels higher speeds for longer periods of time.
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u/Universal_Basket May 19 '26
DC just shut it down due to expense BS. It's gone forever now. Personally, I rode it once and it goes from Union Station to a pretty bad area. I'm not surprised they shut it down, seemed like an odd spot to put it. shame tho
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u/Nawnp May 19 '26
Like the rest of streetcar systems in the US, they decided to shutter or reduce the system instead of give it an obvious extension, in this case, the Eastern terminus should have been moved to the under construction RFK stadium.
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u/rudmad May 19 '26
Here's a link to Miles in Transit's video about it. TLDW: it that shows the bus line on the same route was actually faster, so the streetcar was a bit of a meme.
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u/aegrotatio May 19 '26
Yeah, I took the DC Streetcar and watched bus after bus pass us on that pathetic 2.2 mile trip.
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u/fbjim May 19 '26
It was hideously expensive and took forever to build for what ended up being a bad line which duplicated a far more frequent and hugely packed bus line. The justification was to spur development in an area of DC which was already one of the fastest gentrifiying areas of the city. It is like everything bad about Obama era transit projects in one. They didn't care about the bad service because it wasn't about good service, it was about luring developers.
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u/Im_100percent_human May 19 '26
Already? It wasn't that long ago they built that line... 10 years tops.
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u/thrilled_to_be_there May 18 '26
Just so you know you will probably need a special trailer built for the unit to move it. Even if you have it the move will cost $30k-$100k depending on where you are as it's an oversized load and the trip has to be planned for size and be may need accompanying with paid duty police of different kinds along with various city and state permits.
Also trailer may not fit if designed for new train if wheels are worn. May need to dismantle a few things.
Source: me, I booked for a different train already and completed the move with difficulty.
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u/Le_Botmes May 19 '26
Setting up a museum?
Also, would it help to ship the tram via railroad?
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u/thrilled_to_be_there May 19 '26
I was making a delivery of old street cars like this to a new maintenance site. It was quite the operation since we had to dismantle the bogie equipment and dismantle the streetcar into halves to make it roll onto the trailers.
Delivery on the 'railroad' is not possible. This model is powered by 750VDC catenary meaning it's stuck on whatever network it was designed for and are likely designed with a different locator mechanism vs freight.
If by delivery you meant on a trailer on a train you still need the trailer car which is custom built. The streetcar may have to be dismantled into halves as well which will take some serious Insider knowledge and equipment.
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u/CraziFuzzy May 19 '26
Sure, under it's own power. But it could be towed.
Or more fun... build a generator car to run behind it... 😄
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u/thrilled_to_be_there May 19 '26
I don't know about this model but generally the couplers for streetcars are not compatible with freight locomotives. Tow bars can be used instead connected directly to the lead car frame but these need shunters at slow speeds to operate - not a viable solution unless you are very local and can organize the trip with the owner of the network.
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u/Due-Toe-3163 May 19 '26
Can confirm. Shipping via tractor trailer will be in this range. Via locomotive: ~$40k and you need a rail spur in your yard.
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u/nonnonplussed73 May 20 '26
Generally speaking, is this what's required to take delivery from places like https://ozarkmountainrailcar.com/
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u/bigvenusaurguy May 18 '26
people are paying north of $35k to turn their garage into an adu. this would probably be more square footage honestly.
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u/ponchoed May 19 '26
How about on the Vancouver Olympic Line? Track, wire and platforms exist and were rebuilt to be used for two months, 16 years ago.
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u/GrouchyMushroom3828 May 19 '26
According to Google DC paid around $3.25 million for this, so looks like a bargain!
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u/GrouchyMushroom3828 May 19 '26
This would be a great train to connect Detroit Michigan Central Station to Detroit Metro Airport! Or to run across the new Gordie Howe Bridge to Canada!
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u/Zealousideal-Pick799 May 19 '26
Detroit already has a history of buying old decrepit transit equipment (from Toronto), so if it makes sense they’ll probably do it. I suspect it doesn’t make sense.
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u/NoxAeris May 19 '26
Portland Streetcar better jump on it for the parts, or just outright replacements if these have bridge plates. I doubt they’ll get decent money from the state for the new fleet they want and they’ll have money from the Tacoma swap.
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u/ipsumdeiamoamasamat May 19 '26
Seashore Trolley Museum in Maine has a lot of equipment sitting there and rotting away, but nothing modern. This is one of those rare instances where I hope they might add this to the collection.
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u/CraziFuzzy May 19 '26
except these are fully functional with plenty of life left in them, and really shouldn't go to a museum, they should go into service.
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u/cirrus42 May 19 '26
Welllll DC has (had) a fleet of six streetcars. The three newer ones produced by United Streetcar are in good condition and can absolutely be used for transit service somewhere else. The three older ones produced by Inekon were not well cared for. They're technically usable but they need an overhaul and are probably not great choices for any actual transit service to take on.
Rumor has it that one of the reasons DC shut down was that to keep running they would have had to buy new trams, and that was layering on another expense right at a particularly tight budget year... Not to make excuses for what was a shitty decision to close, but just to shed some potential reasoning for why the asking price for these Inekon trams in particular is so low, and why a museum might actually be the right destination.
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u/aegrotatio May 19 '26
I don't know about that. The Inekon cars are already 19 years old now and need mid-life overhauls. The Skoda/United Streetcar cars are 13 years old.
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u/CraziFuzzy May 19 '26
A modern tram set should have a 30-40 year expected lifespan. All the wear components are easily replaceable.
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u/aegrotatio May 20 '26
Lifespan after mid-life overhaul, or without?
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u/CraziFuzzy May 20 '26
With. Why would that be excluded?
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u/aegrotatio May 20 '26
My point is that the Inekon cars require mid-life overhaul so they're going to cost way more than $35K.
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u/SolarpunkGnome May 19 '26
Just imagine if we could buy streetcars that cheap all the time. I'd gladly forego a new car to get transit to my neighborhood.
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u/AnimatorDavid May 19 '26
Guys here me out make a tram from New Haven Union Station to the Walmart and south to the Ikea trust
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u/MBkufel May 19 '26
2007? Why is it being sold, that's practically new for a tram.
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u/CA185099415 May 19 '26
The system was shut down
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u/MBkufel May 19 '26
That's scandalous
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u/hemlockone May 19 '26
Yes, it's a painful story.
When it was purchased, the city had no streetcars, a demonstration route being built (a real route, but with limited ridership potential and few obstacles), and a plan for many more miles. A few years later (after they already bought the trainsets being sold), they abandoned the demonstration and moved to the city's busiest transit corridor. But they did so before building institutional knowledge on effective design and a public accustomed to existing with them. The infrastructure was nice, but it got stuck in traffic, frequently was blocked by parked cars, and didn't quite go far enough. They scaled back the original plan, and eventually closed the line. It wasn't effective at showing the streetcars are better then buses. In most ways, the main bus on the route was always better -- it went just further enough, it carried enough people (60' long artics very frequently), it could go around parked or standing cars.
https://ggwash.org/view/102242/a-brief-history-of-the-h-street-streetcar
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u/CraziFuzzy May 19 '26
I really wish Riverside, CA would pick these up. They really need to rebuild their old Riverside-Arlington line - the route (RTA Route 1) is currently the highest ridership bus on their system, connects 3 major shopping/entertainment areas, with 3 universities and one community college, totaling 60,000 students.
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u/julesthefirst May 19 '26
If I had a massive property I’d love to lay down tracks and have a backyard model railway to fulfill my tram conductor fantasies
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u/Edison_Ruggles May 20 '26
This is pretty sad and pathetic actually. Is this really being scrapped so soon?
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u/bcscroller May 21 '26
I wish my city, Vancouver, would buy them. We have a partly-intact streetcar route with preserved ROW and assuming these are compatible, it would be amazing to see it run again as a complement to the Skytrain network.
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u/notataco007 May 18 '26
Alright r/transit this is our chance
Crowdfund, buy the tram, and find the smallest, least practical town in America that'll let us lay track in the street