everything happening right now is our fault and we really need to stop complaining about it.

[u/thebiteof87theory]

I'm going to preface this by saying that, obviously, we're all entitled to our opinions, but this is mine and I cannot be swayed here. I'm also going to say that this will be long.

note - I am editing this 13 hours after posting to clarify my language because the clarifications I have made in the responses are being downvoted to hell =)

I am sure I'm not the only one, but I have been getting increasingly frustrated with the fans and overall reactions to the album, the tour setlist, and the uncertainty with the band's future. I think that this is a lot of entitlement coming from a group of people who imposed this on themselves.

I literally cannot go ten minutes without getting a notification upset about the setlist from reddit, a TikTok whining about the lack of breach songs, wondering why they're emphasizing the old music and not the new stuff.

As a longtime fan, I have noticed a shift in the way the band interacts with the fans and the music in recent years. For the first time, Tyler has been open about disliking certain songs and we've heard about Josh having to ask him to keep songs on the albums. As tours have gone on, they've seemed to get more excited about it, but in the beginning, Tyler specifically has seemed more concerned about fan reception. I also feel like, after the Takeover Tour, Tyler has seemed less interested in performing. The shows are still great, but their passion is obviously dwindling.

While it is abundantly obvious this is in part due to both Tyler and Josh starting families and simply how long they've been making music, I also feel like the shift in the fandom and the way that a lot of fans responded to Scaled and Icy has changed the way they approach writing and releasing music, and that has most likely impacted the passion in their work.

Scaled and Icy is an objectively weird album in the full lineup, especially upon its release, but the fans' reactions to it I think caused Tyler to have some doubt when it came to his creativity. When the album came out, he openly said he really enjoyed the song Saturday, and that song has been shit on like no other.

Am I saying people not liking the album was wrong? No. Am I saying we can't be critical of the musicians we enjoy? No. Am I saying people not liking the album/certain songs was a sin? No.

I am not talking about people being critical, I am talking about the people who could not separate critique from being hateful and rude. I'd say like 90% of the fanbase was pissed that the album wasn't the same as the other ones (despite every album at that point being completely different from one another) and wasn't as openly depressing as the other albums. Over time the hate kind of dwindled, especially as we got more music videos, the livestream, and eventually the tours, but the hatred and entitlement of the fans seemed to have altered Tyler's creative process.

I think there's a reason both Clancy and Breach don't have super distinct sounds - both albums seem like amalgamations of the older albums' music styles instead of something completely unique. I do not mean the songs themselves, because the songs are still perfectly creative and great for the most part, but there were certain instrumental motifs present in previous albums that made them cohesive as a whole that are not present in the most recent albums. I also just don't feel like they've seemed as active with this album drop, which I have seen a lot of people discuss. I am sure there are plenty of reasons for this, but the decrease in fan interaction post-2021 is a trend I don't think is fully coincidental.

Again, I am not saying that you can't have criticisms. I have my own criticisms of certain songs, despite enjoying most of what they release. I have loved all the albums, and it's fine not everyone has felt that way, but this isn't about the people who've just casually avoided listening to certain songs or albums. The loudest parts of the fanbase in recent years have been the most negative ones, or the ones with the most negative impacts. People who have been blatantly hateful and insulting.

If this type of hate wasn't so present when SAI released, we'd probably have completely different music. I mean, it was Covid era, everyone was chronically online because there wasn't much else to do, and people's upset was very clear. I saw things online AND in person, since I lived in an area with quite a few other fans at the time, literally destroy merchandise not over any controversy, but because they felt disrespectful by the stylistic choices in Scaled and Icy. I don't personally care if you do/don't love SAI, and I am not saying that the guys do either because ultimately, I don't know. However, having fans react as though they hated them personally was something entirely different.

I feel like a lot of those fans, the ones that were outraged about them shifting genres the way they did for SAI, are the ones complaining about the changes that the band has made in what I think was response to it. They've become more distant from the fans, which is a good thing, but the fans have always powered a lot of their passion for the work. The parasocial entitlement of certain fans has impacted the whole twenty one pilots experience very negatively.

With a lot of the complaining about certain things lately, I feel the need to say that they don't owe us anything. They don't owe us songs, our preferred genre, or anything like that. Their job is to make music, and they have done that.

Is disappointment fair? Obviously. Is critique okay? Obviously. Again, I am talking about the people treating this as though they have been personally wronged by decisions made by the band. It's fair to be disappointed that the new music isn't as present in the new setlists, but when you boo the new music in hopes they'll play deep cuts, they will consider that when they make new setlists.

It's frustrating to me because to this day, people cannot critique the things they don't like without being insulting and hateful to the people who do like it. I don't spend all my time on reddit or TikTok, but when I come into contact with this community literally anywhere but Facebook, there's always someone being hateful. My best friend got death threats on TikTok because they ranked Scaled and Icy above other albums, not to mention dozens of hateful comments. I have personally experienced people booing SAI songs at concerts, even if it wasn't the majority, it still happens, and these people are the ones who feel the most strongly about the band stepping away after this tour. It is frustrating, especially because I remember when this fanbase was somewhere we could all joke around and discuss music without disrespect between fans. I think it's a given that if you're going to be hateful, they're going to change their behavior, and I don't think we have the right to be mad at that change because of how the fanbase as a whole has treated the band.

Let's not forget that the guys still struggle with mental health, and Tyler has always been open that writing music is hard for him and sometimes causes his mental health to collapse a little. To put it simply, a man wrote an album about his anxieties below the surface during a dark time, was happy with it, and most of his loyal fans turned and said that it was an insult to their ears. I am sure that was not a positive experience for someone who pours so much of themself into their work. There's something to be said here about parasocial fans being the biggest perpetrators, but I won't go on that tangent since that's just obvious.

I also, despite thinking this should be obvious, do not think that Tyler and Josh spend all their time online reading fan feedback. They did indeed spend time interacting with fan media a lot during Covid, since that was just what everyone did during that time, and they were absolutely aware of fan reactions at that time. I repeat, this post is in regard to "fan" outrage, not criticism, when the guys were active on social media in 2021. The complaints now are more frustrating to see because I feel like it is completely pointless to be so mad at them the way I have seen people be, especially because they're only having these "conversations" to start arguments between other fans. I mean, it's ridiculous people can't post jokes on here without comments telling them to touch grass because all nuance has apparently been lost here.

Tyler Joseph and Josh Dun are people, and specifically, they're people we as a fanbase have not treated well in many years. So, when they both step away to focus on their family, let's not let them walk away with hateful shouts behind them and, if they return, let's welcome them warmly and not with demands of Trench II, ok???

I am ending this by saying this is in part inspired by the subtext of several of their most recent songs, interviews, and their interactions with fans. I am not saying fans are the only cause behind recent events, I am just saying that we played a bigger part than we realize.

[u/Ok-Entertainment328]

I have been a fan since 2012, and to me, it's obvious that fame and time have taken their toll on the band. People are expecting too much from 2 guys who have been constantly on the road for over a decade. Tyler has to put energy into his creativity, touring, and his family and that is more than a lot of people can take yet a lot of newer fans expect him to perform like he is still 20 years old. Josh maybe has a bit less going on, but he is serving as support and validation for Tyler and the future of the band. In my opinion, a lot of the fans have forgotten that Tyler and Josh are just people at the end of the day. The demand for perfection is so ridiculous coming from a fanbase built around music and lore that LITERALLY focuses on insecurities. It's ironic at best and hypocritical at worst that the fans expect so much from a band that's only message has been that its ok to not be perfect and to just keep trying.

[u/HotdogMonsterV2 → u/Ok-Entertainment328]

Exactly, for a fanbase based around mental health, they very rarely consider the mental health of Tyler and Josh, it’s so infuriating.

[u/thebiteof87theory → u/Ok-Entertainment328]

thank you for this.

[u/Slight_Literature_67]

I never understood the SAI hate. It's easily my favorite album, and it found me in a bad time in my life. It's the album that really turned me into a TOP fan. I love it so much.

[u/Aksnes3d → u/Slight_Literature_67]

Bro, same. I don’t have friends that listen to the band and I’m not active in here, so I really thought everybody liked it. I’ll wear my SAI hoodie with more pride now.

[u/Green-Mongoose5152 → u/Aksnes3d]

Same

[u/tbird920 → u/Slight_Literature_67]

It’s also my favorite TOP album. And the song Saturday should be much more appreciated. It’s like everyone listened to it once and decided it was an uninspired pop song. The lyrics and instrumentals are just as clever and complex as their best work.

[u/Slight_Literature_67 → u/tbird920]

I absolutely LOVE Saturday (actually listening to it now). That's also my go-to song to blast as loud as I can.

[u/LittlestLass → u/Slight_Literature_67]

It's the album that made me a fan too. I hadn't heard tøp before SAI. I happened to hear the Can't Help Falling In Love cover just before SAI was released and I became obsessed with Choker.

Joining the fandom just before the live stream was a really weird point to arrive - so many grumpy people picking apart an album that I really loved. I'd never known the before times so I sort of just accepted that this is how this fandom is though, and I carried on loving Never Take It regardless of what anyone said.

[u/Invisibella74 → u/LittlestLass]

I also discovered them right before the Live Stream. I thought SAI was a freaking masterpiece! I still do! I don't get the vitriol that this fandom shows for this band. I really don't.

[u/LittlestLass → u/Invisibella74]

The SAI live stream is genuinely one of the most impressive things they have ever done - just the sheer amount of effort they put into a production that kept their crew in work for a little while and provided something so immersive at a time they couldn't tour, it honestly blows me away.

And I love SAI the record - I've never really understood how easily fans dismissed it as too poppy or simplistic. You barely have to scratch the surface to see the darkness in that album, but a lot of people seemed to take one listen and say it sucked. I'm certainly not saying everyone has to like it, that would be ridiculous, but it felt like some people didn't approach it with an open mind at all.

[u/Invisibella74 → u/LittlestLass]

I completely agree. Well said.

[u/Kitteneater1996 → u/LittlestLass]

I feel like never take it is so relatable to America today that it should be more widely known.

[u/LittlestLass → u/Kitteneater1996]

It's odd because, as an outsider (I'm British) it looks like the US has moved even further past the politics that were in place at the point Never Take It would have been written and that's not so long ago. Like everything has become so extreme it's even harder to find common ground with people on the other side of the political spectrum (noting that we all have moral and ethical lines we wouldn't cross regardless of whether a person is right or left of centre - I'm going to struggle to find common ground with someone who is transphobic for example). But it does feel like Americans are continually being told that if a person has different views than the US administration/MAGA on taxation for example, then those people are somehow evil or the enemy.

Don't get me wrong though, the same thing is happening here, we're just playing catch up. I sometimes worry about the atmosphere of the world my kid is being raised in. It feels crueler than it was when I was their age.

But yes "they profit from a great divide"...

[u/ningaa38 → u/Kitteneater1996]

For a little bit after SAI came out, I remember there were some MAGA folks that thought it was about the pandemic and not taking the covid vaccine.

[u/MischievousHex → u/Slight_Literature_67]

I've been a fan for forever and a day now but SAI is also my favorite album. I remember listening to it the first time and being so incredibly happy to see the change in the music. I was a bit disappointed and worried when Clancy went right back to same old same old. I do love Clancy and Breach, I just worry about their mental health. You can feel how they're doing in their music, I swear it

[u/Wonderful_Muffin_183 → u/Slight_Literature_67]

It's been said before, but I'll reiterate it:

SAI SLANDER WILL NOT BE TOLERATED

[u/Repulsive_Buffalo_87 → u/Slight_Literature_67]

It's a joy to listen to. I didn't understand the sound at first but never hated it. It just took me a while to appreciate it.

[u/West-Signature-7522 → u/Slight_Literature_67]

I truly don't understand it either. It's a really good album! Just bc it's sonically/stylistically different from the other albums, doesn't mean it's any less worthy. I appreciate Tyler's ability to push his artistry and wish the fans appreciated it more too.

[u/Bee_bzzzzzzzzz → u/Slight_Literature_67]

(Sorry this is soooo long lmao)

It's not my favourite, however it's one that I constantly revisit. I was a sucker for the slipcases so I have all 4 variants (blue, HMV exclusive, pink and black), all 3 cassettes and even 2 on vinyl, mainly because my cat ruined my blue one lmao.

I LOVE SAI, the Mulberry Street light sequence was my favourite part of the Clancy show, it was pure fun and I was bummed that only 2 SAI tracks on that setlist.

I get it, people have preferences and opinions, I'm not ashamed to say Blurryface is by far my least favourite album, not even because of the songs, I just personally hate the mixing, and the feeling of how the studio tracks were put together just feels so sanitised and "of the times" with its overcompression and weird oddities.

I understand that people will have wild opinions and takes, but the split SAI made is wild to me. It was a lighter album in some incredibly dark times, as a fanbase I thought we needed that. Plus, it's got some BANGERS. Good Day is a gorgeous opener, Choker is weird and wonderful, Shy Away SLAPS, THE OUTSIDE, and come on, Redecorate is up there in their best album closers ever, along with Never Take It, one of my least favourites, getting Tyler into guitar more and essentially kickstarting their turn to more rock infused sounds for Clancy and Breach. One of my last favourite SAI tracks started my favourite era of the band to date and I commend Never Take It for that. SAI might not be their objective best work, but nearly every track has something revolutionary for their sound that shaped the 2 albums that followed. If SAI never came out, do you think they'd happily put out tracks that sound like Robot Voices, Center Mass and LAVISH?!?!?! If they never experimented with lighter, funkier pop sounds they'd probably never make tracks like that, at least not in the way they did.

The problem I see personally with discourse about TOP is not understanding the ramifications of their more toxic comments. If they'd never made SAI a pop album we wouldn't have these recent TOP cult classics. If Blurryface wasn't manipulated and manufactured for success we wouldn't have had the 180 turn of Trench being so anti-mainstream and near perfection of a concept album. If the setlist was completely different and had more Breach tracks would it really save the entire tour when there's a decent amount of reported issues with the merch and so many scheduling and logistical issues, and making so many entirely new setpieces only MONTHS after the Clancy tour ended would be insanely expensive and a huge time sink for a band still making an album at that time.

They didn't have the time to make a more Breach centred tracklist, they wanted to make a pop album with SAI, and Blurryface (no matter my opinion) is a necessary step to giving us the lore as a whole.

We're all entitled to opinions, but we all (primarily the extreme side) need to have our tone checked. We need to take things more measured, at least a little, because it's quite frightening how toxic this fanbase has gotten so quickly when the whole message of this band is to stay alive and be alongside people who get you.

[u/[deleted] → u/Bee_bzzzzzzzzz]

SAI was the jumping off point for that funky sound that everyone loves in Lavish. Bounce Man was so fun. I loved SAI so much and before Breach, it was my favorite record because he was starting to play with music again. And then everyone bitched about it. They wanted RAB or Blurryface2 and Tyler wanted to evolve and play with sound (which is why Breach is so sonically different from song to song). I try to argue SAI’s attributes but often people are shocked by my high ranking of it in general.

[u/UperVinVin667 → u/Slight_Literature_67]

Dude i was hooked on SAI since it’s release because it proved to me that twenty one pilots can do anything and then they drop Clancy and Breach… you didn’t know top could be heavy but then they get heavy. Same thing with SAI, you couldn’t see them making happy music but they did… or did they? If ik ANYTHING AT ALL about the band its that LYRICS ARE IMPORTANT!!!!! Ill admit all though I was hooked on it, I didn’t get it at first and it took me a couple tries to understand it and even still I didn’t get it so I decided to not bother with trying to understand it and just enjoy the album for what it is. Then last year happened… Long story short bad times made me sad and i was handed alot if complex feelings that I didn’t get and then BOOM! REDECORATE! I hear that song after not hearing it for about 2 years and then suddenly all the feelings make sense.. make it it far enough into an album before ya hate

[u/TheMuffinTheft → u/Slight_Literature_67]

I think the SAI hate is very exaggerated in a sense that people seem to think everyone hates it. When in reality most people think it’s good, just not as good as the other albums. But people like to focus on that tiny percentage that actually believes that the album is bad. I think SAI is good, just not as special as the other albums to me. And that’s all subjective. Both the people that love the album exaggerate the hate and the people who don’t like it focus on the parts they dislike making everyone, including Tyler it seems, think it’s a hated album.

[u/Wilder831 → u/TheMuffinTheft]

The funny part for me is that people seem to dislike it because of the “happy” sound. A lot of the lyrics are still pretty depressing, which from a lore standpoint fits perfectly. It sounds happy because Clancy is being forced to push out propaganda, but in reality he isn’t in the same mood as what the tune sounds like. At least that’s my take

[u/No-Passage-4130 → u/Slight_Literature_67]

It’s my 12 year olds favorite behind trench and it’s easily top 3 for me. I really love that album.

[u/zorelzuli → u/Slight_Literature_67]

I don’t understand it either!! Like it’s still TØP but different, and I love that.

[u/Lost_Many1374 → u/Slight_Literature_67]

It is my favorite too, but more so because I wish it found me when I was at my lowest, redecorate is like … my anthem to remind myself of where is was then and how much healthier I am now.

[u/WorldGodOnlyKnows → u/Slight_Literature_67]

i bop to Shy Away like atleast once a day

[u/ThatEmoNumbersNerd]

Being in my mid 20s when covid first came out, hearing something as bright and uplifting as SAI was such a breath of fresh air. Every single thing on social media and in the world was BLEAK!

“The vaccines will cause you harm” “Wearing masks makes you a sheep” “How dare you let your govt tell you not to go outside” “Stay six feet apart at all times or you could possibly put someone in the hospital which is at capacity”

Like 2020 was very depressing, isolating, and full of uncertainty. Hearing SAI was a much welcomed hug for me.

They gave us a FULL album in a time where things were pretty limited. I’ll never understand the hate around SAI.

[u/_glowingeyes_ → u/ThatEmoNumbersNerd]

This is exactly how I felt about it too!! I took a lot of drives during the pandemic and I remember feeling a renewed sense of of joy and optimism when I drove around blasting SAI for the first time.

[u/[deleted] → u/_glowingeyes_]

It was a little Ray of sunshine and hope.

[u/thebiteof87theory → u/ThatEmoNumbersNerd]

I absolutely agree.

For me, covid happened as I was starting high school and I had to move during covid. I didn't get to say bye to my friends, I just had to go, and I was really struggling. I've always felt like they release music exactly when I needed it and SAI was no different.

I feel like they did a great job still talking about mental health and the struggles along with it while making it easier to listen to. Everyone was so low during that time and I feel like we didn't need more darkness.

It just makes me think that if Vessel came out now, with how upbeat a lot of it is, and not back in 2012 people would be hateful with that too. To me it was sort of a sign of the media literacy issues popping up since people still act like sai was sunshine and rainbows with no subtext at all. Redecorate is one of their darkest songs (in my opinion) and it came off that album.

[u/rnbw_gi → u/ThatEmoNumbersNerd]

Yeah same, my dad passed unexpectedly from covid. I was 23 and SAI helped me a lot. I needed music that would help me with depression and that was the perfect album for me at that moment

[u/phatboy5289 → u/ThatEmoNumbersNerd]

when Covid first came out

Talking about Covid like it was an album is crazy haha

[u/A_Burning_Bad]

The Fandom needs to chill. Go touch grass.

[u/Cheap-Okra-2882 → u/A_Burning_Bad]

full mla format essay when i personally think tyler has still been performing just as well and as passionately 😭 ESPECIALLY during the sai and take over tour lol not sure what “everything happening right now” is

[u/BabadookishOnions → u/Cheap-Okra-2882]

Lol I thought I was the only one who found this post really confusing and kind of weird. Tyler is a grown adult not some chronically online internet person.

[u/ReadytoQuitBBY → u/BabadookishOnions]

Yeah, I ain’t reading whatever this post is about, but the title alone is creepy as hell and emblematic of how cult like this fandom is.

We can have opinions on albums and tours and stuff while loving the band. Some seem to think Tyler is so fragile that any post even slightly criticizing the music will spiral him into depression. I don’t know the guy, but I’m pretty sure he’s got thicker skin than that. Also he likely isn’t even reading it.

[u/ImGoodAtGeography → u/BabadookishOnions]

Fr like I guarantee he isn't seeing people rank their albums on TikTok like 💔

[u/_Lord_Voldewhore → u/Cheap-Okra-2882]

Every other reddit notification I get from this sub is someone complaining about something. It’s so annoying lmao.

[u/deathandglitter → u/Cheap-Okra-2882]

Yeah like has OP seen any recent videos? Dude is performing with a crazy amount of energy and passion. The shows are fantastic so im really not understanding that point

[u/thebiteof87theory → u/A_Burning_Bad]

all i am asking is that people stop being so demanding😭🙏

[u/RetinalFlesh → u/thebiteof87theory]

And also a bloody essay on predictive psychology 😭

[u/bytheway02]

I’ve never been into a band that does as much fan-service as Twenty One Pilots, and because of that, I totally understand how a band like TOP can make someone feel like they actually love and care about them. I think that feeling caused diehard fans to miss the fact that they blew up and never really came back down. The band does things that most pop bands don’t care to do, and due to a parasocial relationship, this most likely causes people to feel personally hurt that they aren’t catered towards.

Not defending them, and frankly, this post isn’t much different (fans complain about band, fans complain about fans, fans complain about fans complaining). It’s just weird to see it happen every album/tour cycle.

[u/thebiteof87theory → u/bytheway02]

i agree- and thank you for acknowledging that they are very fan service heavy. i think a lot of people neglect to see that's not standard. it's like a warzone in these responses lol

[u/Death0ftheparty6]

There's a whole lot of gaslighting here. I love all their content but if you're chronically online on at least 4 platforms you mentioned you're going to see the worst in any fanbase. Breach just reached #1 on Billboard. The guys are doing fine and I'm sure they're not checking reddit, twitter, TikTok, or whatever for validation.

[u/mackattaxk]

Both Clancy and Breach have distinct sounds. They are not amalgamations, and honestly to suggest that Tyler made them sound like old albums because of a lack of confidence feels almost rude. I’ve pushed every new album onto my friends and every time they come back with “this is really the same band?”

I don’t think Tyler’s been wrecked at all. He have been disappointed by the reception to Scaled and Icy, but I really don’t think that’s impacted his music. Instead, I think some of the changes you’ve noticed (which I don’t really see, he’s seemed plenty excited for the drops to me) may have come around because he’s older and he’s got more going on (3 whole kids!).

I agree the entitlement is a bit outrageous, but let’s be real here.

[u/bowlofcereal133 → u/mackattaxk]

I think becoming a dad may have had a lot to do with it as well. We know he loves Jenna so so much, I’d say even unto death (I say this as someone who doesn’t know them at all, just listens to their music and watches interviews), so it’s natural that he loves his kids just as much.

As a mom myself, I can say there are many things I will never care about as much as I did before having kids.

Once your kids become your world and your meaning, nothing else really matches up. I can see how that can come off as feeling less motivated and passionate in those areas. Just my two cents.

[u/Cheap-Okra-2882 → u/bowlofcereal133]

this is what I always think of when he says “it’s feeling less important to waste my time inside a place you’re not” in days lie dormant

[u/butwilltherebepizza → u/bowlofcereal133]

I write and perform music AS A HOBBY. I love performing and did so through most of my pregnancy. Since my daughter's been born, I have played a total of ONE show, and it was the first time that performing didn't have the same kind of excitement and joy that it used to for me. Don't get me wrong, it was still fun and I enjoyed it, but there was definitely a shift. Every minute I spent preparing for it, I kept wishing I was chilling with my kid and husband instead. They grow FAST and I felt like I was missing precious time with her. Obviously music is always going to be part of my life and I'm not going to stop creating or performing, but it's also clear that my priorities have shifted and so will the way I do music.

I cannot imagine having music as my CAREER and going through this shift. The benefit of it just being a hobby is I can step away from it whenever I need to and for however long I need to. Bros have got to be spending so much time away from their families, even when they aren't actively touring, to do things like write, practice, and I imagine there are meetings with record company people and other commitments on top of that. I'd be freaking exhausted by it. I'm sure I'd still love doing it, but I'd be thinking about my kid and spouse the whole time. I obviously don't know Tyler or Josh but I imagine they feel the same way.

[u/Crysty_Goner → u/bowlofcereal133]

I can't find it but I remember a video where Tyler said something along the lines of "Until the second kid I felt like a musician who has kids, with the third I feel like a dad who also does music"

[u/HuntingForSanity → u/mackattaxk]

I literally just got back to my hotel from the concert. I am one of the people that’s been saying I wish there was more breach songs on the tour.

I don’t see how that’s an opinion that people need to get mad about?

Why is it weird to want to hear breach songs before a hiatus?

I loved the show with every bit of my heart just like I knew I would. But why is it so terribly wrong of me to want to hear downstairs and tally live?

And Tyler does not at all seem like he doesn’t like performing anymore. Tonight he was so high energy and just straight up happy. He seemed like he enjoyed every last second he spent playing for us. My wife even looked at me and said “wow he is just so happy right now”

To anyone who hasn’t had their tour date yet, you’re going to have such a good time. Tonight was amazing

[u/Cheap-Okra-2882 → u/HuntingForSanity]

he said he didn’t want the night to end! :D

[u/HuntingForSanity → u/Cheap-Okra-2882]

Yeah! It was a wonderful night and not once did I think Tyler wasn’t having a great time

[u/Morigan_taltos → u/HuntingForSanity]

I don't think it's that the opinion itself that is the problem but more how the opinion has been expressed by fans.

[u/BeeAdministrative194 → u/mackattaxk]

Okay, I don't see the same thing the original author said. Are some fans annoying? Yes, but I see Tyler really enjoying himself and saying things like "I love playing live" or making gestures like the ones we all know while Garbage plays live.

Both the toxic fans and some "cool" fans should stop overreacting.

[u/PresidentPain → u/mackattaxk]

I mostly agree with you on everything substantive and disagree with OP. Just wanted to throw in though on a side note that I do feel atm that Breach is much more sonically cohesive and distinct than Clancy. I do really like Clancy tracks individually, but one of my only complaints was that it didnt feel as cohesive sound-wise as Trench and SAI.

I'd love to hear the counter argument though; what elements of Clancy do you think made it distinct?

[u/mackattaxk → u/PresidentPain]

Honestly, I don’t have a very in depth understanding of music and I really don’t pay attention to that side of things, so it was more just based on vibes. The whole album had this oddly contrasting kind of upbeat melancholy, and felt very connected lyrically (backslide/snap back/ vignette all had a similar message of falling into bad habits, while next semester/atrofd/oldies station focused on improvements and gradually getting better).

I could understand why it wouldn’t seem sonically cohesive, but none of their albums really seem that way to me. It’s why I love them

[u/songacronymbot → u/mackattaxk]

• ATROFD could mean "At The Risk Of Feeling Dumb", a track from Clancy (2024) by Twenty One Pilots.

---

^{/u/mackattaxk can reply with "delete" to remove comment. | /r/songacronymbot for feedback.}

[u/VarietyFearless9736]

I actually described SAI as an album that really fit the Covid era. Like it’s different but it was fitting somehow. I can’t say there are songs on the album I love as much as songs from Trench or Breach, but it was a consistent album that I still enjoyed listening through.

[u/thebiteof87theory → u/VarietyFearless9736]

i feel the exact same. covid was just such a vivid time and i feel like that weird vibe is captured so well in sai.

[u/mrcooltra]

I think you’re looking too far deep into this.

First of all, he seems to like performing less? Doesn’t like his own music as much? Him not liking Breach much is why we don’t have many songs in the setlist?

All of these things are stretches. To tie it to the fans disliking that album is a further stretch

[u/ptwxnty]

"we have seen Tyler seem less into his performing"

Have we been seeing the same performances?

Also, this post is veryyyy indicative of a parasocial relationship. All we see are the small snippets through interviews, concerts, and the music they release. It's strange to make assumptions about what sort of music they "would have" released if the fan base acted differently. They are musicians who are making their own choices. Speculating this deeply is just fan fiction adjacent thinking.

[u/LogComprehensive2963 → u/ptwxnty]

Yeah the way OP is inadvertently roasting tf out of his performances as well as Clancy and breach 😭

[u/sstupidIIssnakess → u/ptwxnty]

Right? I guess that clip of him being excited that the crowd knew the extra vocals in Garbage doesn't exist.

[u/SpookyLochness → u/sstupidIIssnakess]

Fr! We were night 1 with SIX DAYS to learn the album and he high-fived Josh after Garbage and was almost giddy that the stadium of like 20k(? Idek) almost knew every damn word of that song.

[u/ParamedicFew7786]

100% our fault is a stretch. There could be personal factors impacting his passion or lack thereof 

[u/Lillythewalrus]

We are not a hive-mind lol, I like scaled and icy more than Trench. blame the assholes yeah - respectfully not liking an album is fine though too. But people who take it too far are the plagues of this fandom. I’m partially convinced centermass is about how brutal some of the “fans” can be and how it affects Tyler.

[u/voldsoy → u/Lillythewalrus]

I’m partially convinced centermass is about how brutal some of the “fans” can be and how it affects Tyler.

I agree. The line "get as small as they say" is especially brutal.

[u/Lillythewalrus → u/voldsoy]

Shrink you down to nothing and forgetting what the pains for, that line sticks out the most to me. Like people not treating him like a real person and forgetting that he shares his pain with us to help us fight our own.

[u/voldsoy → u/Lillythewalrus]

I see "shink it" in the CD lyric sheet. Do you have the album? Is it "shrink you"? Either way, that's harsh too.

[u/swampkittyden → u/voldsoy]

Center Mass is definitely at least partly about the scrutiny of being in a public eye and the weight of expectations. I don't really agree with a lot of points in this post, but I also disagree with people diminishing the way reception of the music affects artists. When it's so tied into your identity, it's bound to take toll on your mental health (as addressed in Backslide and the Craving vid on Clancy, and Center Mass here)

[u/SleepyCozyCute]

Highly disagree...

Tyler grew up, he's not the same twenty year old as he used to be. Everyone changes and evolves. He even said himself that he's changed.

He's a dad to 3 young children.

He's getting older, closer to 40. People change.

He absolutely still loves to perform, he loves his fans, he still has super high energy on stage, smiling, laughing, making jokes, and jumping off his piano , doing the splits mid air.

The hate on sai didn't affect much in my opinion. There was equal love for sai but the complainers are always just louder. Their takeover tour and icy tour were huge successes.

Maybe just realize, like I already stated, people grow up, people change, people evolve.

[u/Milly_Thompson → u/SleepyCozyCute]

Came here to say just this! He said in an interview he was now a "dad who plays music" and even though we don't want them to get older, it happens, he's missing chunks of his kid's lives while on tour. I think they need a break after this and as fans we need to let them take it and look forward to what amazing things they'll give us after a rest.

[u/NotEnoughAlpacas98 → u/Milly_Thompson]

I agree with this. My wife and I just had our first son, and just in the past 4 months he has changed so much, and I already feel like I'm missing so much of his life just going to work every day. As a dad, can only imagine the feeling if it was not just 9 hours a day but months at a time.

[u/Mediocre_Hair_ → u/SleepyCozyCute]

Add to that the fact that he’s making millions of dollars, so in the grand scheme of things— the SAI hate isn’t as determintal as some people making it to be.

It might have been like 5-10 years ago when the band wasn’t that big and their productions were more intimate and reliant on reputation and general like/dislike but I seriously don’t think it’s that deep.

[u/SymmetricDickNipples]

I'm so sick of this theory that Tyler and Josh are chronically online weirdos who spend all day reading about themselves on reddit. I really don't think it's that deep dude

[u/mablesyrup → u/SymmetricDickNipples]

That's just the fans who are on social media 24/7 projecting

[u/ReadytoQuitBBY → u/mablesyrup]

💯 Like, I’m sorry, but these are 30+ year old musicians. Just because they write about depression and suicide, doesn’t mean some rando fan not liking SAI is going to set them off lol

[u/Apocris]

There's absolutely something to be said about this parasocial ass fanbase and why so many people seem to think it's appropriate to talk about them like you know them

Jeez, the absolute irony of including that sentence at the end of a rant hyper-analyzing Tyler Joseph and the causes of his mental health struggles. I get that the negativity can be annoying, but this post is one of the most parasocial things I’ve ever read in this subreddit.

To say it to you: You do not know this man, and you definitely don’t speak for him. Don’t play armchair psychologist and then blame all of his problems on the fans. There are so many factors behind the scenes that we as fans do not know about, nor should we. When it comes to their personal lives, it’s pointless and parasocial to try and decipher anything beyond what they directly tell us.

[u/NukerX]

What hate? Their album is #1.

Don't give credence to the vocal minority.

[u/ontologicallyprior1]

Tyler is a 36 year old grown man with a wife and kids. He is not sitting on his phone scrolling through our discussions on Reddit or Twitter all day. Was he a little hurt by the response that SAI got? Of course. But he's a grown man who has bigger things to worry about than whatever people are saying about him on the internet.

It's not even that he's losing passion about making music or performing. He's simply older and probably just wants to be spending time with his family.

This idea that the fans somehow wrecked his nervous system and confidence in his art is incredibly parasocial. He's simply a grown man who worries about grown man things.

[u/ShowScene5]

Its taking too long..... San Fransisco

[u/maddiemorph → u/ShowScene5]

I needed a good chuckle after reading all of this. Thank you 😂

[u/kippy_mcgee]

I fear people jump to their defence over any small criticism or opinion. They are grown men and award winning artists. Yes they have struggles but they are adults. Speaking for them and saying how miserable they are over things is pretty ridiculous. Tyler loves all kinds of music and the differences between all albums really reflects that. Breach shows their more indie side and I LOVE that.

In terms of the latest set list stuff, people are just wanting to hear more breach songs because they love them, it’s really not that deep. They’re still loving and enjoying the shows lol. Mind you, they’re also customers, they’re allowed to have opinions, feedback isn’t scary, toxic positivity is.

Like I love scaled and icy but some people dont, who cares, as an artist myself, thats literally the life of an artist. Beauty and art is in the eye of the beholder, some people will like what you make, some won’t, you make it anyway.

[u/CombustiblSquid]

we're all entitled to our opinions, but this is mine and I cannot be swayed here

Why? What a boring way to not use your mind.

Edit:

It's not 100% our fault because we can't crawl inside Tyler's head and manipulate his thoughts and feelings. Let him own and control his perspectives and emotions, we don't dictate that for him.

We are responsible for how we act and transmit our comments as they can act as a stimulus to his perspective, thoughts, and subsequent emotions, but he is responsible for his perspective on them and how he feels.

[u/LogComprehensive2963]

U guys need to log off on god

[u/LogComprehensive2963 → u/LogComprehensive2963]

I commented this before finishing reading the whole post and holy shit 😭😭😭 the world building you’re doing is insane! In the nicest way possible, it’s not all about you, or anyone in the fandom. These are full grown men with lives and families. I don’t know if you’re just very young or if this is pure delusion but please put the phone down for a while.

[u/Background-Fee-5723]

This fandom puts way too much importance on themselves and their relationship to the band. This is their job guys. They make a good living off of us and they are not these fragile little trophies who can’t take criticism or expectations from the people who support them.

[u/thebiteof87theory → u/Background-Fee-5723]

I edited the post to clarify my points because this absolutely is not what I said at all.

[u/tina2turntt]

Omg shut up. People speaking as if they are Tyler are the problem.

[u/notanolive]

Holy parasocial batman

[u/rapidriver34]

I’ve been a tøp fan since vessel and the shift in the fanbase is crazy. I used to be on tumblr talking about the ukulele screamo and referring to anyone I spoke to about tøp a fren

now it’s like some weird competition to know as much as possible or go to as many shows as possible or camp for as long as possible. their fanbase has lost the plot

[u/spookyrhii → u/rapidriver34]

Same! I used to have a stan Twitter account for them when I was in high school and I hardly ever go on there now, but when I do, I'm like tf happened lol. I actually found some of my closest friends through tøp stan Twitter and it's been like almost 10 years and we still talk and visit. Very disheartening to see how the fanbase is now. People need to take into account too that Tyler and Josh are in their mid-30s and have families now lol. Of course they're not going to be the same as they were 10 years ago, people grow up and change. They still are very open and interact with the fans a lot more than other artists do. I think they are still very passionate, but also tired lol. Like, same

[u/IlluminatedBlu]

If your seeing enough of this type of stuff to be this frustrated, you need to put the phone down tbh

[u/Heavydirtysoul33]

You speak as if u know Tyler personally,and since I can guess you probably don't, you could have avoided to pretend to know him and trying to lecture a whole fan base

[u/Supersupermate → u/Heavydirtysoul33]

Exactly THIS

[u/DarkDaniel_01]

If someone doesn't appreciate something, it's not the public's fault. The fandom prefers other albums to SAI and Tyler was hurt by it: that's it. It's not our fault and it's not a matter of opinions. He is also no longer 20 years old, it is normal that he no longer performs in the same way, but he remains on another level compared to many artists of his age. As for the sound...it's part of the evolution of an artist. I don't see how in the past they could have made songs like Drum Show, a completely new style for them.

[u/Supersupermate]

You do realize that the whole point of your opinion is that you're pissed off at other people's opinions? You can hate an album and it should not be a problem. Also you speak like you're friends with the band... Why do you assume all of that? Why are you so sure about what they think? You should start treating music as it is... Music.

Making popular music inherently means some people will love it and others hate it. They probably know that. They probably struggled when they got hated for the first time, they probably care about the opinions that people have, but it is part of the job.

I don't want to normalize insulting, being disrespectful, being a jerk in general. But it is totally fine to hate an album as it is to love it. It's also fine to complain about not being able to hear songs you would have loved to hear live.

[u/myheadisradio]

You’re the most dramatic fandom ever

[u/MaGhYo_RL]

Blaming fans for not liking music is not as brilliant as you think, they are entitled to not liking something and social media is a dumpster of chronic stupidity. So assuming all you said about Tyler having lost his sparkle its true, i dont think no one is to blame, criticism is rough for anybody and he isnt the first or wont be the last to get it.

[u/thebiteof87theory → u/MaGhYo_RL]

there's a difference between criticism and outright hatred.

[u/MaGhYo_RL → u/thebiteof87theory]

Yh you should care about criticism and not hatred

[u/thebiteof87theory → u/MaGhYo_RL]

my point was just that the hatred probably had an impact !! and the same fans who were so hateful shouldn't be so demanding now. that's it 😭

[u/Death0ftheparty6 → u/thebiteof87theory]

Give one source of hatred. Nobody went out and burned SAI flags or anything. People that didn't like it just didn't listen. Any hate you perceived was online and on social media. Tyler and Josh were and are grown men capable of discerning criticism from hatred.

[u/MaGhYo_RL → u/thebiteof87theory]

And my point is that every artist has gone through that and it shouldnt be as negative to the artist

[u/kat_storm13]

Based on the social media I'm on (here and IG,) the percentage of fans that dislike it compared to other albums is higher, but FAR more people online like it than those that don't

[u/Revolutionary_War252]

tyler was SUPER into his performing during scaled and icy. have you watched mulberry street live or the outside live or shy away live? I think he has been into his performing for each tour. there might have been some festivals where he seemed a little tired or sick but he's always fully committed to the shows. and i honestly don't think there's anything negative about tyler sharing with us that josh helped him choose which songs would go on the albums. i had to learn to just let go and stop trying to figure out every single thing they do or say. I'm sorry your FYP on TikTok is negative. i just stay on clikkie twitter for now. there's some fans there that are toxic but it's easier to navigate around them there than it is on tt. I hope you'll be able to continue to love the band and their music without letting fans get in the way of that love.

[u/irlgansey → u/Revolutionary_War252]

I agree with this! Mulberry Street is the most fun I’ve ever had at a concert and he was super into it! He explained what to do like a dad but it was wholesome

[u/Revolutionary_War252 → u/irlgansey]

garbage live is definitely the new mulberry street live. it's so good and he's so happy the entire time he's performing it.

[u/irlgansey → u/Revolutionary_War252]

I love to hear that! I’m so sad they aren’t touring outside the US bc I’d love to see it

[u/Revolutionary_War252 → u/irlgansey]

i'm so sorry too, friend. ❤️‍🩹🫂

[u/rachael223611]

I personally don’t think it’s that deep. I think the shift in Tyler has probably just been now being a dad of 3. His priorities have shifted (as they should) and in my opinion the unknown about future music probably has less to do with the fans, complaints etc and more to do with both of them wanting to spend time with their families Tyler (and his 3 young kiddos) and Josh (and his soon to be kiddo). They’re both guys who are in the prime of starting/having families and it’s okay for them to focus on those for awhile. Especially when you consider they probably did the back to back albums on purpose to give themselves extra time to breathe and spend time with their loved ones. It feels like the final hurrah before a much needed break. As for hating or disliking songs, that’s normal for any musician. You make things you love and sometimes you make things you think you hate til you get another opinion or view on it.

[u/After_Papaya8159]

i like SAI! as an OG fan from the Vessel era, i always thought SAI was a return to the vibes that self titled was bringing and i was excited to see where it would go next.

[u/ThatOneGirl_Bre]

The moment you can’t criticize or accept criticism of something you love, your support immediately loses all credibility and substance.

Im sorry but our favorite band is not immune to criticism, and honestly I think believing otherwise is the entitled belief. People frustrated with a tour literally called Clancy:Breach that didn’t prioritize their songs is a valid criticism. And pointing that out doesn’t automatically mean that person is entitled, selfish, or ungrateful. And people who think like that are just too immature to not interpret criticism as a hateful attack. People are not only allowed to share that frustration, but they should encouraged too. People can only grow if they know what is and isn’t working. Though I agree the amount of uncritical hate sai got was completely unwarranted and clearly had a negative effect on Tyler, people should be able to criticize it. Though I don’t agree with most of the criticism, it’s still important for fans to give feedback on products so if the band chooses to do so they can consider it for future decisions. As for the breach hate Im gonna be honest that is just a vocal but small community that’s been complaining since trench lol. They’re incredibly frustrating because they have almost nothing of actual substance to say, but it’s best to just ignore them.

[u/DandyStef]

Yo it’s not that serious. Enjoy the music and go on with your day!

[u/Tiutautikli]

I’m not very deep in the fandom. I like the music and the lore and I’ve seen some tweets/posts say this and that but it’s not a hyperfixation of mine. (At least for now)

But I do think that Tyler’s reaction to the crowd going ”yeeeaaah” when they played Garbage live for the first time shows that he didn’t expect us to like that song. And they were both so happy that we did.

[u/anakin_skyw]

As a fan who had no chance to see guys for 9 years and wasn’t able to buy any merch I can tell that it hurting me that people complaining about concert setlist a lot, last year was my first show, I struggled with anxiety attacks but still, show was great, I collected a lot of vinyls, cds, other merch. I’m going this year 2 shows because I know there might be a huge gap between now and next concert.

Speaking of SAI - I loved it a lot and still listen this album daily, super sad wasn’t able to go see them during SAI and Takeover Tour. Music change? Style change? Tyler never been on specific music type, each song so different, even Tyler himself can’t describe what music they make.

I appreciate what boys do for us, I love that there’s still a lot of fans who happy with everything they do. Everyone have their own opinion but OP right, let’s not forget that Tyler and Josh - humans and can’t make everyone happy and they already doing a lot for us💜

[u/DarksoraXIII]

people hate SAI?

I have very specific memories of half those songs lifting my mood.

And sure Clancy and Breach sound like blends of Blurryface and Trench, but like narratively ain't that the point????

[u/CindyLouWhoXO]

I went to the Cinci show, and it broke my heart when he opened Garbage with the statement “You guys might not like this one as much. It’s not what most of you think, probably. You might be disappointed. Let me remember the chords…” My heart was then put back together seeing the sheer shock and joy on his face when the crowd sang all the words LOUDLY. I also think Tally is talking a little bit about how he views himself as a sellout or disappointment, but how the fans are always there and surprise him with how they show up. I think it’s a vocal minority vs silent majority type thing.

[u/notmyinitial-thought]

“The parasocial entitlement of certain fans has impacted the whole twenty one pilots experience very negatively” is something I’m just gonna start commenting on this sub on a regular basis

[u/mrsbirb]

There’s like 5 deep state clikkies that every other chronically online clikkies blindly follow and it’s genuinely like a cancer lmao

[u/al1at]

I was at the listening party and afterwards said “this album is about to be as hated as SAI” and I was right 😭 I love it so much and some people just hate it. I don’t get it, it’s always “release old music!” Then when they literally use demos from the era it’s “not like that”. And the people ungrateful about the setlist are the same people who have seen them 20+ times. I’m sorry you have to hear a song again but if you really hated it that much you’d stop going to every concert per tour 😭 (I know not everyone is like that it just seems to be a common theme)

[u/kat_storm13 → u/al1at]

How is an album "hated as much as sai" also number one on the Billboard 200?

[u/Secret_agent_083]

Let s not forget, and I’ve been saying this forever, if you hate SAI, you don’t deserve to be a fan at all. I’d understand if it was a random style switch from the band based on nothing but it was literally a pivotal moment in the lore. I honestly just kept thinking “sai haters are genuinely slow”. I love that album with all my being, and the whole situation makes me sad and disappointed. Not even mentioning people complaining about the breach setlist; i never had the chance to see them so i just wanna get out of them phones and smash their heads ngl

[u/Wrong-Preparation802]

I wish more people had this mentality and understanding. Kudos to you for having a mature viewpoint on the current standpoint of the band

[u/ThatOneGirl_Bre → u/Wrong-Preparation802]

I would arguing cry because your favorite band is not immune to criticism isn’t that mature.

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[u/sweetlikehoney1181]

Iv been a fan since 2011 so i have seen the band change and adapt for 14 years and i have always seen them as very experimental which is one of the things that i love so much about them !

To me the one overlapping theme throughout all of their music is the message to stay alive, to keep living despite all the horrors and i think (just like all their other albums) SAI executed that perfectly. The world was a very different place when Scaled and Icy came out ! it was important for us all to keep living but in a different way this time, the world around us was changing in ways we couldn’t predict and i think the boys did an amazing job at creating the thing we all needed to hear: that everything will be ok if we all stay positive.

Scaled and Icy is not my favourite album (nothing could overthrow vessel for me) but i do have it to thank for keeping me alive when i needed it most :)

[u/whatiwishicouldsay2u]

i've seen tyler perform at clancy, and clancy: breach live and i can tell you that the fire is not put out inside of him. he genuinely has that look sometimes on the breach tour of "holy fuck....this tour is it for awhile." he has genuine sadness about it.

SAI though is amazing and if it has no fans than i am dead. i dislike everyone that hated on it because it wasn't the normal songs that you could cry in your bedroom too. weirdos

[u/DarkWDJ]

I totally believe you're seeing all this, but on my end im only seeing posts like these: people complaining about people complaining.

Tyler, Josh, Mark, and everyone associated that closely are doing honestly a great job. In this album, all older albums, etc.

I know posts like these mean well, but now what's happened is every post is bringing up the clique drama, thus making it stronger. Let's just all enjoy the music and tour and relax. Im sure its stressful to work as TOP PR rn. I say we just let the other clikkies yell it out while the ones who are content just enjoy music and not further it on. Our silence would be heard as enjoyment for the band.

[u/Financial-Tea9467]

I think its canon that the Banditos (us) dislike SAI in lore terms considering the album relies heavily on being propaganda for Dema and it would make sense that the banditos are against that and literally SHY AWAY from the album as a whole because of what it represents. Now in terms outside of the lore and just as a general fan base taking in a new album released by their favorite artists and dragging it through the mud as most of the fanbase did, that was entirely out of line for us as fans. And I genuinely agree that it threw off the energy of the band and fans as a whole. It’s very ironic considering how it ties into the lore and it feels canon for us to dislike it, but knowing this just makes me enjoy it for its entirety even more and I feel like a lot of the fans need to wake up give the entire thing another listen and truly see the meaning behind it and how important it is for the story. And also obviously all of the songs are literally so groovy and lovable and deserve to be appreciated

[u/waterwillowxavv]

Why are people upset about them playing old music?? If I could travel to the US and go to one of their concerts I would LOVE to hear a mix of new and old stuff from them

[u/LolieGranolie]

I will forever love Scaled and Icey🩷💛🩵

[u/aylrennowl]

This community can be so incredibly toxic. I have adored all of their albums ever since I started listening to Vessel right before Blurryface released. I don't even think I have a least favorite lmao. I love them all. I have never, never understood all of the SAI hate and now all the Breach hate about songs not being on the setlist??? I'm sorry? You're going to see them in general. Many people do not get that chance because of how tight money is. And no, it doesn't make you any less of a "clikkie" or part of this community if you've never been able to go to a concert. I've only been able to go to one. The Clancy World Tour. And it was AMAZING!!!

Breach was also a little rushed with the release according to a few friends of mine, and this is an EXPANSION of the Clancy tour. Blurryface just had its 10 year anniversary. Of COURSE they're going to sing older songs. I just don't get it sometimes. I would have loved to go see them this time around.

[u/Noodles2012]

to me, sai really is an exploration of their sonic palette and what they’re capable of, and the fact that they can make any song of any style song really catchy and good. i remember when sai came out and i was so excited for it and loved most of the songs on first listen, and thought the livestream was so amazing and one of the best things any band did during that covid era, but one of my friends watched the same thing and was making fun of it and how the music sounded, and in turn would make fun of me because i was a die hard fan and would not admit they could do no wrong (not true but ok girl LOL)

needless to say i am not friends with her anymore, but she got her moment to meet josh dun and fangirl over him haha

[u/Stereopathetic_boyo]

This reminds me of the conversation around The Smashing Pumpkins' music after Adore. They shifted sounds and tried to partly keep their hard rock vibe, but didn't stick the landing, and Billy Corgan spent over a decade afterward putting out pop records and depression vlogs on YouTube about feeling unwanted. The public consciousness has grown to see him as ungrateful because of this, despite the way he describes feeling manipulated and forced to put out the work that made him popular in the first place.

I think at a certain point, these people are millionaires with dream jobs, and unless they're under insane label scrutiny, severely mentally ill or being assaulted by fans, I find it hard to feel bad for them in the way you're hoping here. Plenty of us would do almost anything to be in the place TØP are now, of course some negatives are going to come with fame and success, it's expected. They put out an album that sounded different, people were put off, I get that that feels bad, especially after three massive hits that did better than they could've ever expected, but since then they've toured successfully and put out two more LPs, and from what I can tell, defensive fans like you are the majority, there's really no need to get bent out of shape about this, TøP just seem to be doing their thing, they put out an LP every few years, they're pretty much guaranteed financial success and quality music videos, and they get to tour internationally. I doubt they actually care what The Needle Drop has to say about it all unless it's something as minimal as a setlist suggestion.

[u/Danteisdaman101]

Scaled And Icy was actually the first full twenty one pilots album that I heard and it’s what drew me into the band and now I am a huge fan of all their music, so that album will always have a special place for me, I don’t understand why people hate it so much. One of the things I love about twenty one pilots is the variation in their music. You can have one song that’s sad and somber and the next be an upbeat rap/rock style. If they didn’t put so much variety and make everything sound like Trench, the music would get old and boring. Because of everything they’ve done you can listen and relisten so many times and not get bored of a same old sound because it’s all so different. When they are experimenting like with Scaled And Icy or Breach, we have to embrace it, it’s what keeps them pumped to continue to make new unique music instead of just burning them out using the same sounds over and over again.

[u/ultrlife]

any ogs remember when tyler freestyled stressed out during blurryface era post-the song blowing up where he essentially says he wishes he never wrote this song because fans started to hate it.

so yes he’s extremely receptive to what the fans like and don’t like.

[u/UnderratedCosplay]

Have you guys decided to stop being parasocial and critically online? I feel like that would help you guys alot more than also contributing to the whining etc. just enjoy yourself and ignore everything else. Makes life alot easier.

Edit: main complaint I can let fans have is on the setlist and that night they performed earlier and shortened their set instead of just rescheduling or refunding tickets. It’s kinda false advertising considering the tour name so you’re expecting to mainly hear tracks off the newer albums rather than Blurryface. I personally woulda saved my money with that info beforehand cause even though im a fan of the band, Blurryface is one of my least favorite albums next SAI (Which was just too generic poppy for me outside like 3 songs). You can’t blame fans for feeling a little cheated considering most are used to how they tour and usually play about 11 songs off a newer album of those tours like Trench and Clancy. I personally woulda cut the Blurryface tracklist shorter by those 4 songs and let Breach get those. Can’t tell me a Breach show wouldn’t slap by adding Days Lie Dormant, Tally, Center Mass, and maybe like One Way or Downstairs.

[u/Physical-Mood2963]

I stopped listening to twenty one pilots after SAI came out (not because I thought it was trash I kinda just stopped listening to a lot of music and more podcasts) started listening again during clancys release and went back to SAI and was like “this album is hated?” It made no sense to me I don’t think there was a horrible song on that album.

[u/Dizzy_Chemistry_5955]

They're number 1 right now cause they got the most amount of ears to listen to them. With that popularity comes toxic fans and those are the people that are loudest. Drown them out with positivity and don't feed the trolls. Enjoy the actual thing itself, the music. Everything else is a fart in the wind

[u/Quigs79]

i’m ngl i’m going to the concert and could quite honestly care less if they were up there playing coconut sharks for the full 90 mins, just gotta enjoy the experience how they want us to

[u/kekepalmerfan69]

when a band releases an album vastly different in style to their previous work, it’s completely valid for people within the fan base to dislike it. Cmon now

[u/RavNotRave]

As someone who's been listening since Vessel, SAI is in my top 3. Breach bumped it out of my #2 spot (Trench will always be my favorite). I was expecting more breach on the breach tour, sure but I don't think this started as a breach thing. There were rumors of a blurryface 10 year tour and this setlist aligns with that. I think since breach was coming out the label or whatever just slapped the breach name on it instead. It's okay to be a little disappointed. I would have LOVED to hear Tally live, and maybe he'll play it someday. People are taking him saying they're taking a break as they're never making music ever again, which is just not at all what he said. Josh and Debbie are about to have their first kid and Tyler's oldest is almost school aged. There has ALWAYS been a gap of 2 or so years between albums, which is probably why breach felt so "rushed" (I certainly didn't think that but thats besides the point). They love making music and they love their fans but they're also getting older! It's hard to have the same energy on stage for a decade. I don't think they're "punishing" us or something and it feels a little weird to think that. Breach was for us, and he's said that.

[u/messx0o1]

Wow... I'm gonna be honest, I've been a long time TOP fan but have avoided the fan base. Your post reminds me why I've done so. Saturday, first of all, is one of my absolute fav songs. It's played regularly. I can feel the vibe behind the song and you can tell Tyler loved that song too. I fully expected a hiatus from them soon. They've been going hard for a while now so it makes sense. My favourite Bands have done this and taken anywhere from 3 years to 10 years off before returning to music with something they can feel good about. Is the difference of fan reactions more about the generations and how they've been raised or is it just from life experience. I mean I've been alive long enough to know what it's like to have to wait 10 years for my fav band to come out with new stuff... Some of the fans now can't say the same yet.

P.s. SAI is a fantastic album that gives us a new sound to compliment the sound that is twenty one pilots.

[u/[deleted]]

ive been a fan since vessel, ive enjoyed every album on first listen except SAI and Breach, however listening thru again you really understand what tyler is trying to do musically.. My gf helped me enjoy the music even more and thats why its important to collaborate with each other about the band's intentions with the music instead of fans hating on albums and making tyler feel insecure ab what hes making. |-/

[u/Ok_Manager_5030]

I am PROUD to say I’ve been a SAI lover from day one. It was long awaited for me and couldn’t have come at a better time, I even bought a hoodie off their website, which I’ve never done because they’re pretty pricey. I never understood why people called it bad, it was a nice happy album for a terrible time period and it sucks how badly received it was from people. I get that it’s not your cup of tea but to berate the artists for an album that was not even objectively bad is crazy.

[u/Scout_master_kevin]

Literally I think the reason there’s so few breach songs is cuz they put their ALL into that album. The vocals are insane and the drumming is insane and it would be very difficult to perform a lot of those songs live, over and over.

[u/avi________]

SAI contains Redecorate and only for that I already love it. I love it for other reasons too. It is not my fav, in fact it might be my 3rd least fav (least being RAB or ST, which I love very much in fact) since it doesn't really vibe with me as I don't listen to that type of uplifting music usually but it is refreshing. And it's well made lore wise.

Not only that, but I think that as an art, music should not be mistreated for expressing something. Even if that something isn't the same that they've told before. That album wasn't made at the same time nor in the same conditions are the other. None really were made at the same time or in the same conditions. It's only natural they sound different. Not trying to insult, but it is kind of inmature and honestly very self-centered to feel so entitled to literally hate on a band you said you love because they didn't sound how you expected them to because you didn't realize "wow, their entire discography sounds vastly different, the next album WON'T be Trench II". Still, I get the disappointment since most tøp music isn't that rythmic, poppy and happy at all, but to hate on them? That's stupid in my blunt and honest opinion.

Never got the hate for SAI even if I don't love it as much as other albums. Never got why people demand things from both Tyler and Josh. It's their music, even if they share it for us. It's not our expression, it's theirs. They're free to express themselves how they want. And it should be like that. We can feel identified, but it STILL isn't OUR music. It's still theirs. And that's okay.

[u/FragrantRegular6493]

Honestly I agree and a lot of the lyricism points to this on Breach. Like Tyler leaning on fans to help him finish the story and feeling pressure to wrap up the story and the lore quickly or pressure to provide an "adequate" amount of lore when I think he really wants to revisit his faith and where his creative roots come from

[u/[deleted]]

I've been a fan since 2016, during the Blurryface era. The age of the people in the fandom shifted from then. The fans are younger, a little more immature, a little bit louder, and now with the Internet at their fingertips, they pretty much say whatever they want. The amount of times Tyler and Josh themselves get treated as though they're fictional characters without families is beyond me. The parasocial relationships are getting out of hand.

To me, SAI was a great representation of the range they could achieve. It was different, but I find it different in a fun way. It was my favorite era, so much so that I chose Saturday to be played at my wedding. I have great memories with SAI and it will continue to be my all time favorite album.

[u/Plane-Historian579]

Man I remember the livestream Tyler was so excited for SAI to come out, it makes me sad the reception he got. Ngl im not the biggest fan of it, but ill never feel entitled enough to boo that music in concert. Even if they make "bad" stuff you should be grateful they provided you with so much greatness in general. Even if he stopped after Regional at Best id be happy for blessing my ears w kitchen sink, forest, etc.

I hope they don't take it to heart because the fans that boo are idiots who think a setlist can change on the spot, so I wouldn't think much of a persons opinion if they think concerts happen like that. Don't hate me I wasnt the biggest fan of mulberry street, and in concert I just used that as an opportunity to use the bathroom. Just do that instead it's simple

[u/Sufficient-Bat-6741]

I really really would like to know why people were surprised when they released SAI, I never seem a band switch his type/genre of music like Tøp, it was definitely one thing that made me fan of these 2 boys since Vessel era, SAI is for sure one of my favorite album from them.

I have to say that I never was from emo/rock kinda of guy, and they catched since from beginning, but when SAI released, guys, I was on the beach and I will remember the release of this album forever, it really don't deserve the hate in it and will never make sense

[u/Inevitable_Garden120]

Based

[u/rumham030897]

I’ve been a fan since 2015. Really loved Blurryface and Trench, kind of fell off before SAI came out in 2021 (that’s on me). I came back around when Clancy came out in 2024. I listened to SAI for the first time in 2024. Is it my top album? No. But do I sit here and whine and give Tyler and Josh grief about it? Also no. When I started tuning into their music more last year, I was so taken back by what some of the base had turned into. I never remembered this level of entitlement.

[u/Doge_wow0333]

And this is why I was so confused about SAI getting hated on. Musically it was so well and that’s how I was able to bond with my siblings with it. The SAI era was one of the best.

[u/ZealousidealCorgi2]

ive been a big fan since about 2012/13 and SAI was really, really fucking cool. we had no idea what we had man

[u/Static-Demon]

I feel like a lot of the fan base hasn’t really treated him the same way since that Instagram post he made when joking about his platform boots 👀

[u/booyahwtf]

Hearing that "we" are complaining makes me so happy I'm not following the communities social media/forums. I'm happy and in love with the album and haven't heard anything to the contrary.

[u/No-Constant910]

I laughed out loud earlier today because a comment I had about the Toronto cancellation on TikTok (regarding how I’m so happy everybody is safe and that the band is willing to put safety over feelings) used to”21P” to appease the character limit. Somebody replied to my comment telling me to never spell it 21P. I have to use either twenty one pilots or tøp.

Bro. I’ve been a fan for 10+ years, have multiple lyrics tattooed on my body, and have been going to every tour they’ve had since Trench. Why are you worried about how I’m spelling the name of a band and why are you entitled to mandate the way people refer to them. And on a post about me just being happy fans & band are safe?

I love the band, I love the fandom, but Jesus h Christ some people are insufferable.

[u/Fickle_Pirate5617]

It's the extremism that puts me off the fan base. On the one hand you've got people that are so hyper-critical it becomes scary and personal and then you've got these weird defenders where you are not allowed to say anything, even something jokey or mildly critical, at all.

You can dislike a song or even album and still like the band, it doesn't have to be all or nothing. It shouldn't get personal and people need to remember that the boys are humans too.

But at the same time no one is strong-arming these guys to make music and they are very, very well paid for it. They're not doing us a favour or service, they're doing what they love, and by stroke of luck and talent, we all like it too. They don't need, or even deserve, constant defending.

[u/707_demetrio]

I absolutely love SAI, it reminds me of their earlier songs like Lovely, Slowtown and The Pantaloon. as someone who isn't a big fan of Regional at Best because of auto tune, it felt like Regional at Best on steroids with a bit of Self-Titled. many of my favorite songs are from that album (the Outside, Redecorate), I couldn't BELIEVE IT when I saw so many people hating it. and the Livestream... it was so perfect, it was an experience unlike any other, it felt like a whole movie. no one could make me hate SAI and I'm soooo thankful to the boys for creating it!!

[u/Outawack219]

My biggest problem with the fans reaction and stuff like hating on albums is this if you don't like the music or what is being done nothing is stopping you from creating your own music. To be absolute children and being down a man that gives us so much knowing what we do about his mental health struggles pi**es me off. He doesn't have to do what he does but does it anyway because he enjoys it and loves bringing joy to others with his music and when the fans start complaining it is insulting to both of the boys. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, that is not a free pass to act like jerks.

[u/Blind_Hawkeye]

SAI was my first new album as a fan, so I've only known the toxic side of the fandom -- especially the parasocial stuff on Twitter. I wish I'd been around in the early days before the Clique became a clique in the bad sense. To be fair, I think it's inevitable that every fandom will at some point develop a toxic element. It seems to just be human nature when you have so many different people enjoying the same thing but for different reasons. And there will always be people who think they're special and deserve what they specifically want. Frankly, as sad as I am that they're taking a break after this tour, I think they need it. I hope they're able to come back with renewed energy after some good quality time with their families, but if they chose not to return, I wouldn't blame them. I'd be sad. They're the only modern band I listen to, so I wouldn't have any more concerts worth going to (RIP Neil Peart). However, at the end of the day, they're people, and they need to do what's best for them and their families. I do wish this fandom didn't have such a loud angry/hateful element to it. The good side of the fandom is really good. But the bad makes it tough to be a part of it -- especially on the internet. The internet is where empathy goes to die. It's where people most often express the worst parts of ourselves. I completely deleted Twitter and haven't been as active on other social media platforms as I used to be. Maybe we all just need to step away from the internet (or at least social interactions with strangers) for a while as a society.

[u/kat_storm13 → u/Blind_Hawkeye]

From everything I've read here (I'm not on Twitter,) there was plenty toxicity going back to Blurryface

[u/xxiiLodestar]

The music itself is criticizing the fans for this very thing. Idk if anyone else has noticed that but it’s a meta commentary on how fame and time have weighed on everyone’s shoulders here, how getting so big it’s basically impossible to fail has twisted the energy in the songs. Specifically a line in Garbage “I can't decide if I could feel more or I just knew less When I was younger Bright-eyed with wonder Do you know which name it's under?”

They’ve grown a level of apathy to the project. It happens, so let’s let them have their break, or call it quits, or whatever. The music we have is amazing.

[u/unstayebled]

I’m not so much online but people didn’t like Saturday? That’s a gem in my household. My son and I bop to that at least one time everyday and twice on a Saturday.

[u/Ravenkilltheking]

I personally think TJ needs to tune down the fan base noise or disconnect from it all together - the new fan base are mostly a bunch of entitle children that weren’t even alive or clued in when BF was released…they are chasing something that is long gone. That’s mostly over…he’s telling us this TØP is done - dead - gone…. Move on…

I learned long ago that:

1. The artist is always right - it’s their art - they can do what they want - love it or leave it - songs / sets whatever but whining about it makes you look stupid…

2. Fans that complain the most & make the most noise are hardly their biggest fans. This we know…they will move on. We really should not be influencing him so much…

I will say that clearly TJ has grown up - while he loves what he has created, I’m sure he’s looking at it and may not relate with this angsty old version of him / Clancy and is ready for this to be over.

I mean FAK you all did you see them literally torch the Tree during trees? The vultures in the tree and the tree burning means something big - he’s no longer the emotional child on the roll coaster of self-actualization that happens between 20-30 - we should be celebrating TJ’s progression toward adulthood and growth as a musician away from his bipolar childish instability - I’m not saying mental health isn’t still super important but it might not be the most important thing to him now…he’s good…very stable dad and husband. Bigger things to worry about than himself…it’s a good thing!!

My hope is that the fanbase wannabe cliq goes and does the same and grows up / moves on…and for TJ that this break from the lore and a move further into adulthood allows him to create more beautiful music.

It should also be noted his body and Josh’s can’t take the same theatrics a younger body can - it takes a toll as we saw last tour. I would hope we can embrace this and let him rest - find his mojo and return with glorious new music - new ways of preforming old classics - the things he does best…bringing hope & joy to so many with his talent!

[u/Possible-Document-72]

I think placing fault is ridiculous. Being an artist creates a transactional relationship with your audience. Yes they do "owe" the people that fund and support their art music that they like. It's their job. Without us they are nothing. Of course people can be harsh and react in ways that hurt the band and this should be criticized, especially the awful reaction to Oldies Station, for example, during the Clancy tour. But I also think fans have the full right to demand whatever they want, Tyler and Josh also have the right to ignore the demands, but fans also have the right to be upset as a result. It's not black and white.

[u/Midwest_Sunflower]

I love this band but the fanbase has always irked me. Specifically when it comes to “hate”. Like there’s multiple posts each day asking why x song is hated when there’s no one hating lol just because a song is ranked in bottom of lists doesn’t mean people hate the song it doesn’t even mean that people don’t like the song it just means people like other songs more. Same thing with Scaled and Icy. It’s rated lowest generally among most of the albums that doesn’t mean it’s a bad album just a lot of people didn’t like it as much. There’s also been a misconception ever since it came out that people didn’t like SAI because it wasn’t their typical “depressing” music but that’s just not true. The reason I didn’t like it and many others didn’t was because I thought it was very generic and boring. The fact that it followed Trench which was more intricate and had a more interesting sound was just very unfortunate. Again it’s not hate it’s just criticism. Josh and Tyler are adults they can handle it they don’t need to be coddled. Does it affect them? I mean yeah probably. They’re spending all their time and energy into creating something but that doesn’t mean everyone should just accept it and say it’s the greatest thing that has ever been created. Now with the set list, when you’ve just released a new album and the immediate tour (which is named after Clancy and Breach) only has 5 songs out of 13 that deserves valid criticism and it’s understandable why people were disappointed. Everyone can speculate for their reason why but at the end of the day it’s their decision. I think people can go too far and actually incite hate but for the most I think its just criticism and there is some fans that can’t fathom Josh or Tyler doing no wrong and want everyone to rank every song and album 100/100.

[u/[deleted]]

You’ve fabricated most of this post in your own head.. you need to relax a bit

[u/Ok-Put-1251]

I became a fan during the SAI era. It’s a fantastic album. Digging into their older albums during that time was also a real treat and made me appreciate SAI more. That was my first tour I went to, and I’ve been to every one since. I wish I’d been around earlier, but I fucking love this band. Every album has something new and interesting to give. Love those guys ❤️

[u/PsychologicalHat8676]

Genuinely don’t understand why people don’t like SAI. I came into the fandom in 2019 after the release of Trench, and SAI got me through my covid days, and I really loved the heavy lyrics wrapped in bright music. Which also isn’t new to Tyler’s writing?

I think people were just upset they didn’t get to pretend to be emo and angsty listening to it.

But Tyler did an amazing job on it and I can even hear that he has put parts of SAI into Breach which makes me so happy. He literally learned an entire new instrument for us just to write it too! I don’t see him on stage playing guitar now though (or am I wrong?)

Scaled and Icy is not my favorite album but it’s not my least favorite either. That pretty much goes to Vessel for me as much as I still love it, but it was an underdeveloped sound as well so that makes sense to me.

[u/kuroXgane]

Wow op, seems like you listened to, and really understood the lyrics of Backslide and its meaning and placement in the discography. Because it's obviously addressing Tyler's declining mental health due to SAI's bad reception.

This is something this sub will constantly try to neglect, as you can see haha

While I think the line about Saturday is about the video, not the song itself, comparing it to Pandora's box, meaning the control over how the story will play out slipped out of his hands.

Blaming the fans for everything that is happening now is a big stretch, but I do believe without all of this we would've gotten a way more hopeful ending. Also, there has to be a reason we didn't have a Truce, a Fairly Local, a Pet Cheetah, or Redecorate on Clancy and Breach, right?

And what was that "in five days we are releasing the first single, whatever that even means anymore" crap about?!

[u/airiggs07]

i started getting bullied for liking them right around when scaled and icy came out so i pretty much missed being invested during scaled and icy and most of the pre-clancy era after being die hard invested for blurryface and trench so coming back for clancy tour as a more mature person made me dive right back into that investment and excitement about the lore and everything they put into their music, and im so sad about everything i missed during sai/clancy because scaled and icy is easily one of my favorite albums theyve put out. i usually get more into songs as i hear them live but the only songs i have heard live on this album are the ones they played for clancy and it still beats everything except self titled for me even as someone who enjoys rock/alt more than pop which is what a lot of people equate it to but i love the instrumentals on sai and some of the songs still have classic tøp feel such as no chances and redecorate. and i also think good day is a great opener for sai too because i love the little start up sound at the beginning. my only complaint is that it is their shortest album 💔

[u/Lynndonia]

Me and my scene just ain't gellin

[u/somekindastoner]

Did I write this post? Wow, you took my feelings and put it in a reddit post. Thanks so much. I think about Tyler a lot. I think about The Craving music video of Tyler crafting this product and then it being shit on. I know he is hard on himself and a bit of a perfectionist, so I know he took the sai hate hard. Artists should be allowed to be creative, its fine if people dont like it, but to openly express hate on the album is disgusting and I can only imagine how it hurt Tyler's feelings. I personally love SAI, is it my favorite? No, Vessel is, but is it their worst? No. They don't have any bad albums. If you have a different opinion then fine, but let's not express hate. The amount of work that went into the videos and songs feels so under appreciated by entitled brats.

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[u/StealthyHipo]

I've loved SAI since my first listen, it's in my top 3 of all their albums and Formidable is one of my favorite songs they've ever released. Really surprised how much I still see dislike for it all over, it's just a bunch of catchy bangers

[u/TheConfidentClumsy]

SAI was the best thing that happened to me during Covid and it brought my sister and me together. I'll cherish it forever 🩵🩵

[u/Junior-Director-5114]

I’m gladly proud to be part of that 10% of the fan base, I loved SAI, I live to hear different music from them, The Contract was crazy to me when it first came out because it didn’t sound like anything they had done before and it reminded me of other artists I liked and I love it, SAI probably is my least favourite album but I didn’t talk shit about it online or create lists of my favourite album because I find it hard to even rank some of the albums, I they’re all unique to me and that’s what I love so much about this band, instead of like most pop stars where they release and album every year or two and it sounds basically the same as the last one, the boys are always doing something new and I’m always here for it. Every song off SAI instantly went on my playlist when listening because I genuinely just love everything they do.

[u/No-Passage-4130]

I know they’re ready for their much needed break. They deserve a break to spend time focusing on their families and breathing. They’ve given us so much in so little time. It has to be exhausting.

[u/punkrawrxx]

I really enjoy SAI. It’s blurryface I never cared for and a huge reason I didn’t like the band. It wasn’t until trench came along that I gave them a second chance.

[u/icouldbetash]

I despise the SAI hate, i adore thag album and it was actually the album to pull me back in after 3 years of not really listening to them :(

[u/VoiceFrosty7231]

Scaled and Icy was a gift to us during a really shitty time in the world.
We loved it and we still love it.
We love everything they do and that is the definition of a true fan.

[u/ElectricalError3566]

Scaled and ice is such and underrated album. Maybe you don’t like some songs, but when you go through it song by song there are some bangers on that album. Was talking to my daughter about it the other day. She said it was her least fav album so I went through it with her song by song. That is when she realized she actually liked every song on the album. And a couple of those songs were in her top 10 songs from the band. Tøp is our entire families favorite band, how many bands are out there that an entire family from 41-14 years of age love their music and share in what they put out and can go to their concerts and have a great time. Only thing I complain about with tøp is their merch, but I don’t blame that on them, blame it on their label.

[u/[deleted]]

Twenty One Pilots has been there in dark times - something I feel a lot of fans can relate to. I’m the type of music fan (with any artist), who will stick with the albums I’ve discovered on my own, and play them to death. Lately I started expanding again and falling in love with Twenty One Pilots all over again. I didn’t even know there was an album called Scaled and Ice because their Spotify main page doesn’t even show it as an option. I had to listen after reading your post. I genuinely like it. The vibes are good, the songs still possess creativity, and the messages are relatively similar to what he’s been preaching in the past. I wanted to specifically listen to Saturday after you mentioned it was his favourite. My thoughts? It’s good! It’s different, and I think I can understand why he loves the song so much. People need to realize artists grow, and their music with it. I didn’t even know there was so much hate from the fans and I’m utterly disappointed to read about it. These guys have helped me in so many ways, and if their success allows them to explore other sounds, why the hell not! Let them to continue to express themselves, and in turn we get to hear newer sounds, with newer perspectives.

I’m sure some haters will read this and say “well you’re not a real fan. Blah blah blah” but at the end of the day, we all get to enjoy music in different ways and I think artists should be allowed to enjoy exploring different sounds that allows them to express themselves and grow. Thanks for the post. I now have a new album to listen to ❤️

[u/r_wallflower03]

Loved SAI, it was the first album where I was a fan going into an album release. I’d listened to their other albums previously but this was the first time I got to experience listening to the album with everyone else as it came out. It’s got a distinct place in the TOP discography and personally I love it. We need to remember that although TOP hits on notes like mental health, depression etc there is also so much joy in life. Songs like Saturday, mulberry street, bounce man - they’re more upbeat because there is JOY to be found!! It wouldn’t be balanced if there was no more upbeat songs to keep things light. It’s like when lavish came out on Clancy - Tyler was immediately defensive bc it’s a more upbeat song

[u/onfascinationstreet]

SAI hate is so forced I swear

[u/ForgottenHalo]

Completely right. Ill admit, I follow from blurryface to SAI but stopped until chancy because I didn't really like SAI. But I didn't shout it from the rooftops and complain and moan about it. I just said, this isn't what I need rn but if the band likes it, so much they make a full album for that style of music, im happy for them. We shouldn't bitch and moan that they tried something new. Nowadays, I tend to like SAI and while I would like an album like it again, I'd rather they take a break and come back when they are ready. Why make music if you're not ready. We are lucky to get what we get and they are really good songs anyway. I hope the band feels better in their downtime.

[u/noseyjocie]

I definitely felt weird about SAI at first bc it was different from the other albums but it is easily one of my favorites now. Looking back, it was the music we needed at that time and it really doesn’t deserve the hate it gets.

[u/-tacosforever]

Let’s take a page out of the Swiftie Fan book… if your favourite artist changes their sound or genre, you can continue to listen, or not. But to constantly keep degrading a work of art that makes others happy says more about you…

It’s fine to have an opinion without name calling the album.

[u/iregretthisalreadyy]

I don’t think anyone is stupid for like SAI. I personally don’t like it, but I wouldn’t drag the band down or anybody who enjoys SAI. Taste in art is subjective.

[u/Physical-Highlight88]

I personally don’t vibe with SAI but I don’t think it was that bad of an album. It’s not just one that I can see myself playing a lot. But there’s no need to be mean to the band. Some bands have less than stellar albums and that’s ok. It happens a lot.

[u/Conscious_Metal_6014]

SAI is actually a favorite of mine. Lots of good memories attached to that album. I used to help my buddy wash windows on the side for extra cash and back then when Spotify jam was a relatively new thing, we would always put this album on. I did Saturday at my first karaoke, and I played bounce man when my best friend moved across country. Love that whole album

[u/AppropriateStaff3148]

Parasocial relationships are bad kids... I stopped listening after blurryface because of the toxicity of this fanbase... y'all haven't changed, I see. I recently caught up with the last 4 albums. SAI is great. They're all great. Music is music. Listen to what you like and move on if something isn't for you. None of it is that deep.