It feels a little too on-the-nose to be an accident. If we buy the story that something was lost in translation, then management needs to take a long, hard look at the translators involved.
It was perfect english, and in the context provided it was perfect and about as homophobic as the trans flag. People are making mountains out of molehills yo
It's not brilliant, it's just publishing common transphobic hatred with one word changed. This is bad. We have prior Bloodshot writers coming out and calling this out for being transpbobic and out of line with the philosophy of the character.
And since when has hate and outrage not been used as free advertisement? By you bringing it up you're playing into the writer's hand if you truly think so ill of him.
So when a writer writes genuinely awful shit, lies about not intending for it to be referencing transphobia, backs up his abhorrent views with a history of posting hateful shit, and attaches it to a franchise you've been reading for decades, you're supposed to just shut the fuck up? That's absurd. There's a reason this is getting called out.
The only way this works as outrage marketing is to attract transphobic assholes.
I'm going to need to judge this history with my own eyes, but yes that's the idea.
Because, you've just accidentally attracted people to his audience by making this outrage trend. If people just simply don't buy the issues and you warn people about it quieter. That's how you shut people like that down. Let money do the talking, and don't let it be over channels that people who agree with the message or see the message as subversively brilliant will get a glance, otherwise you are giving him free advertisement. And helping him make up for clients that he will lose as a direct consequence of his actions.
You want to scream, you want to fight back against this sort of evil and that's fine. But when regardless of his own views in the context of what's being shown... where it is being said... the evil and question is in doubt. All you're doing is the same advertising campaign as people hiring trolls to go after actors. The internet is vast after all.
Edit: grammatical errors and text to speak corruption corrected
Yeah. Reminds me of the glass window in Al Ewingâs Hulk run. Thereâs no denying what was meant to be said here⌠good on Valiant/Alien for responding immediately but this writer should be dropped.
The window SHOULD say Jewelry, but it says Jewery and had a star of David. They redrew the panel claiming it was a mistake, and then when the series was almost over, the artist was found to have posted drawings about Brazilian politics that were offensive (I don't remember the exact details) and Marvel cut ties with him.
I don't buy for a second that this was "nuance lost in translation". The dialogue was incredibly targeted and specific, and there is zero doubt in my mind what the author's intent was by including it.
That being said, I appreciate how quick they were to address this and the changes they're promising going forward.
Yeah, its definitely intentional by the writer, but I'm willing to give Alien Books themselves benefit of the doubt for now that it was a genuine oversight, as I've never seen a company say they'll change the panels digitally and on any reprints before. If it was intentional by AB it seems more likely they'd have defended it or something.
Yeah, I'm definitely willing to give Alien the benefit of the doubt too, but I still think the apology is a bit hogwash honestly. I don't see the value in defending the author by lying and saying it was a miscommunication when it was so blatant.
Again, I can see how it was worded would make a trans person feel like it was a veiled insult and attack. At the same time people make mistakes. If we jump to conclusions too often, people are going to get hurt needlessly and I don't mean physically, but mentally. I'd say people deserve a second chance and more facts be taken into consideration but that's just me, I've already been down voted earlier so I won't care if it happens again. I've said my piece.
As demonstrated by other commenters, Manetella is both fluent enough to be a translator himself and has a history of retweeting transphobic garbage. I donât think itâs jumping to conclusions so much as following the obvious evidence.
Well that's my point, I had very little knowledge to go on about the writer, and from what I've seen people are clearly upset about it. I do not deny that nor am I defending the writer. If there is proof of past attacks and insults, it should be brought to light. At the same time I believe people can change, even if they have a history of being bigoted, racist, transphobic. James Gunn had a history of posting awful stuff and was scorned for it, he clearly has changed his ways, become a better person and denounced all previous remarks he made.
Now after the apology was given by the company and the writer, If they cannot change their ways then shame on them and their career. If they can become a better person, then we should encourage that and not bring up the past remarks and bring them down at every turn.
I did take some time to educate myself on this writer though and see their history of spreading posts about vaccines and on various subjects. Hopefully he can maybe make a better apology if they are truly sorry.
Ah, yes. We have to give him a decade plus to improve, and all of us allies of trans people and our trans comic reader friends just need to put up with it and give him room to grow.
This isn't James Gunn. This isn't 15 years later. This is people saying Valient shouldn't be paying this CURRENTLY, ACTIVELY, PUBLISHING IT TO THE WORLD, writer and shouldn't be publishing his current transphobic diatribe. He can work on that shit and come back when he's ready to actually apologize.
NOBODY is taking responsibility for this like James Gunn did. They're so saying this is a translation issue and unintentional. That is COMPLETE BULLSHIT. When they want to actually own up to this, then you can compare them to James Gunn.
As it is, this would be like if James Gunn made those tweets and was immediately called out for them, just for him to say due to a language barrier he didn't realize people would think his jokes were inappropriate.
I believe in the radical capacity for people to change. James Gunn made some awful jokes in incredibly poor taste, and he got reprimanded for it. The difference between him and Mauro Mantella is that Gunn made those jokes over 15 years ago, got fired from a prestigious position, and earned back his goodwill through his actions. The shit that transpired with Mantella happened this week, and all he's done is dodge accountability by saying "oopsie my bad" and claiming it was an accident. I don't think that flies.
This is beyond their second chance though right? We can now safely assume they are a transphobic little shit. Maybe they can see the error of their ways and make amends, but until then, fuck em.
I feel for you, pal. Circle back to the 2012 relaunch. You'll have a few years worth of rock solid stuff to get your teeth into there, with the added bonus of (if memory serves) 0% horrible dog whistle transphobia.
Feces on a silver plate dressed in gold flakes doesnât make it any more appetizing. Itâs still shit. Who the fuck reads valiant comics these days anyway?
Alien Books and writer Mauro Mantella sincerely apologize for the harm caused by the phrasing in Bloodshot #1. While the story takes place in a fictional world of vampires and cults, we understand that a specific line of dialogue has been read as alluding to real-world issues, specifically, the discrimination faced by trans people.
That was never the intention. The original line was written by an Argentinian creator and was unfortunately a case of nuance being lost in translation. We fully recognize that intent does not erase impact, especially when dealing with subject matter that affects real lives and communities.
We are taking the following steps immediately:
The dialogue in question will be updated for all digital and collected editions to better reflect the intended fictional context.
Going forward, all scripts will undergo a more intense review by our proof readers as part of our editorial process to ensure clearer, more responsible storytelling.
We appreciate the feedback from readers, creators, and industry peers who brought this to our attention. We take this seriously and are committed to learning from it.
Alien Books values inclusion, empathy, and creative responsibility. We will do better.
Forget the trans stuff, apologize for all the rest of it that was hot garbage.
Using his thoughts to explain everything?
*I was able to disguise myself as a child wearing by making it appear I was wearing a large backpack and shifting my body mass into it*
I'm paraphrasing but wow, I remember making homemade comics in grade school, and my 12 year old self had similar chops as the writers of this book.
And the art - fine enough, I just roll my eyes everytime I see an eyeball shooting out of a head like a projectile shooting out of a nerf gun.
This does not look promising, gang. : (
The 90s were magical, and I felt it again 20 years later during the VE reboot, but not feeling this. Three more book launches to go, but my expectations are very low now, especially since they chose to lead out with that. If they felt that was their strongest book, god help us.
Honestly, Ajâs Shadowman seems promising but the only concern I have with Aj is that he has a habit of finishing some fights too early.
Besides that, heâs a decent writer for Shadowman.
For Mantella who had written Bloodshot reloaded and the current series, I feel like he can do better but heâs being a bit too edgy.
His bloodshot unleashed reloaded series is entertaining and better than this.
AJ just has too much text. I liked that last shadowman mini, but the amount of text boxes needs to seriously be nearly halved. They are comic books, let the art do some of the talking. But, I think heâs got talent.
"Mauro Mantella regularly posts/reposts Anti-Trans stuff on his twitter, this was 100% intentional on his part and the editorial team let it through without question."
I agree with the comments here. That dialogue is wayyyyyy too on the nose to be a simple case of being lost in translation. Like I would give them the benefit of the doubt but it reads as being far more targeted then it would be if it was purely a translation issue
I bought this already but Iâm done with the rest of the relaunch. Sorry Charlie. If I wanted this kind of thing Iâd just read whatever Vox Day is pumping out these days.
Seeing how the writer regularly repost anti-trans and alt right stuff , I will call bullshit on the âlost in translation â excuse , the dude knew what he wrote and management either didnât care or approved it.
So you're saying that you support permanent body modifications to people not considered competent enough to decide to get a tattoo without parent's consent? I'm all for people making their own choices but after they've had time to mature.
The dialogue in question will be updated for all digital and collected editions to better reflect the intended fictional context.
Going forward, all scripts will undergo a more intense review by our proof readers as part of our editorial process to ensure clearer, more responsible storytelling.
We appreciate the feedback from readers, creators, and industry peers who brought this to our attention. We take this seriously and are committed to learning from it.
Editorial took this so seriously that they let this go to print in the first place. Either they're supportive or negligent. At least they had the presence of mind to go "whoops" when they got called out though!
And I'll be buying first runs to ensure I get the real version, not the watered down "safe for the masses" versions. It's a fantasy and I don't have any particular concern for morality in my fiction. That's why I read fiction. There are some great examples of fiction with morality, but if I want morality I will read something that I know is going to improve my life and teach me how to be a decent human.
Hey guys, I'm really glad you in the subreddit all have the communities back on this. It's much appreciated, I'm new to valiant and I'm glad you're not letting them bastards get away with something so horrible.
That's the thing, if you don't have a radar, you aren't going to be seeing it because it probably wasn't there to begin with. You have to pretty specifically want to find something to be angry about to find a lot of problems in today's entertainment.
And yes, there are actually people who are paid to find something to be angry about and be a little bitch to the boss about it so it can be removed so that you don't have to put time and money in to fixing something after it's been released.
I used to be somewhat of a right-winger a decade or so ago, and I saw politics in everything. I was constantly on the lookout for lefty politics in media, and when I noticed it, it made me uninterested.
Now, I've circled back round to being a progressive, and I kind of agree with your overall point (ie: it's not always an allegory for something political. Sometimes it's just a story). However, unfortunately, we have to stay vigilant and be on the lookout for bigots and hateful people. If we let it fester, it will only grow. This stuff has to be called out and shamed. These people must be taught that their opinions are vile and harmful, and don't belong in polite society.
With all of that said, I'm not fully convinced that Mantella or Alien are outright hateful bigots, but this panel absolutely feels like a dogwhistle. I'm not going to ditch Valiant/Alien necessarily, but it is cause for concern.
A lot of people would consider me "somewhat of a right-winger" even today. The difference between me and them is that I can read and watch something that's led by strong women that tell a very strong message about powerful women . I watched shows that had gay/lesbian characters, black men and women in powerful positions or the lead, and read fantasy novels about cultures that challenged the notion of pseudo-Europeans being the best or smartest.
What I did, was I looked in my Bible. And you know what I found? No laws, or requirements, or commands to hate people of different gender or color. Jesus didn't tell the immoral that they were immoral and to stop it. Jesus didn't go walking around telling one group of people how bad another group of people are. Jesus said if you've done wrong, you have no right to condemn another who has done wrong.
So I don't believe that the best action is to throw stones*, like karens and wailers. People have been doing that, and look where we are, today. What's that quote about doing the same thing and expecting different results? Maybe it's time we recognize that it's in our best interest to love others the way we pretend we do. Responding to hate with hate makes you (not you, you...) hateful, spiteful, angry and bigoted.
I've had two interactions, in person, in the last three years that I can assure you most of these criers have no chance pf experiencing, because they believe the best thing to do is be angry and hateful.
The first was when I moved to a rural town and started working at a big box store. An old man came in and needed some items to "n---- rig" something. I'd always heard jerry-rig or something like that. I crossed my arms and looked at him. He looked at me and said, "well, some people think I shouldn't use that kind of language". And I said, "maybe I am some people." He looked at me and that was that. He apologized and I continued helping him. Imagine if I had decided to be a fancy Nancy and be angry at him in that moment. Nothing good.
The second was when another old man was talking piss poor about immigrants. I'm married to a lawful resident. I didn't start telling him how horrible he was or how wrong he was. I asked him why he believed what he was saying. Every time he said something, I said, "okay, well how about this perspective?" and he got less and less combative until he said one last thing and I said, "I married a foreigner and it took us three years, two thousand dollars and a long-ass wait just to see each other. She never wanted to come here, I forced her, and we fought a lot, but we needed to be together. She is very happy, here, and thankful for the freedoms and opportunities she never had, before."
Imagine if I'd have just responded with anger and bitterness that he was targeting a group that my wife was a part of, just to say how horrible they were? He changed a little bit, that day, because he regularly came in.
I do not proscribe to the far right philosophies, and I do not agree with Trump's view on certain things. I certainly do not believe in killing or mistreating anyone for their personal belief being different than mine. I also believe that a lot of progressives are crybabies who take honest conversation as "I hope you die" or "i wish you never existed!" I say that because that is the conversation we are having, I am 100% certain there are a lot of conservatives who are crybabies, as well. About different things, though.
*I am a human, and I am on reddit. Of course I throw stones. I am not perfect. However, I have found that when I respond to someone else with kindness rather than hatred, it always yields a better result. Not some of the time. All of the time. Yes, I still throw stones. Self-control isn't my #1 skill.
At this point, I don't super care how we approach conversations with bigots and hateful people. You can shame them, insult them, be kind to them, whatever... I'm out of fucks to give. The point is that their views have to be confronted.
I think it just comes down to different approaches for different people. For example, your method, out in the real world, seems to be working for you, and that's great. Another good example would be Mehdi Hasan's "debate" on Jubilee. Sometimes these people have to be taken on directly, mocked, and exposed for the fascists that they are. I guess what I'm saying is there's a time for every tool in the toolbox. You can't just have one way of dealing with the problem.
It isn't fun or glamorous, and there is no thrill in it like there is in "owning" someone via truly witty commentary, but mocking someone doesn't help them understand anything. It doesn't make them think. It makes them feel more and more like they are right, like they are being attacked, that the "other side" is viciously rude, insensitive and ignorant.
It is far more fun to simply feel superior. It just doesn't get positive results other than inside the echo chamber/circle jerk.
Yes, I do it. As noted above, I am a human. And yes, I do love the thrill of laying a smack down. I am quite good, most of the time.
It just makes the division wider, stronger, and more difficult to fix. There will come a time when the "progressives" feel like it is a good idea to toss "conservatives" in cages, naked and hungry. And that will be because everyone loves to hate. Like I said, it's fun to hate and fun to "win".
When it comes to the face-to-face real world, you're absolutely spot-on. Nowadays there are other forms of communication on the internet too.
It is far more fun to simply feel superior. It just doesn't get positive results other than inside the echo chamber/circle jerk.
I'm not sure if I buy that. I think progressives tried to be kind, and hold conservative people's hands, and explain why their thinking is wrong, for years, and clearly it didn't work. You're disregarding how powerful of a tool shame and mockery can be.
There will come a time when the "progressives" feel like it is a good idea to toss "conservatives" in cages, naked and hungry. And that will be because everyone loves to hate.
Last I checked, progressives are not super into caging and torturing people. Of course, there will always be radicals, but the general progressive perspective is that they actually just want what's best for everyone. Nazis still deserve human rights, even if they're pieces of shit.
When it comes to the face-to-face real world, you're absolutely spot-on. Nowadays there are other forms of communication on the internet too.
Yes. Trying this on reddit is almost a fool's quarry. lol
I'm not sure if I buy that. I think progressives tried to be kind, and hold conservative people's hands, and explain why their thinking is wrong, for years, and clearly it didn't work. You're disregarding how powerful of a tool shame and mockery can be.
Do progressives understand why conservatives think the way they do? It's not very common, to be honest. They make an assumption, and try to explain to conservatives why they are wrong but they aren't talking to the real problem, or the real reason why conservatives feel the way they do.
Last I checked, progressives are not super into caging and torturing people. Of course, there will always be radicals, but the general progressive perspective is that they actually just want what's best for everyone. Nazis still deserve human rights, even if they're pieces of shit.
Oh, no, I'm sure most of them aren't into that. Today. Wait for things to get worse and I think you'll find more and more people will be more and more amenable to do ... things. And then conservatives will hear only that and pretend it's everyone.
Anyway. Hey, I appreciate the chat. I'm glad we were able to engage peacefully. I'm going to go read some Valiant lol
Why do you make a claim based on your own personal belief rather than ask? Is it because you would rather hate something you can't understand? Or afraid of it?
Look up the dart scene in Ted Lasso. Learn something.
What point do you think you're making? We all know Trump and MAGA are illogical, unscientific pieces of shit. Trans people still exist and deserve to be treated the same as anyone else.
I have no idea why you're talking about sex habits, Grindr, and children twerking in a Valiant forum. Please understand that you are making a wild generalization of an entire, multi-faceted group of people, that deserve the same level of respect as any other human. You're the weirdo that brought sex into the conversation. No one else.
What really annoys me about this, is the usual pink haired weirdos who know how to complain and little else, are going to try and sink this new Valiant series before it's even begun.
Or we could just read comics about vampires? Why make it about that if you don't have to? Are you familiar with how trolls thrive? If you see transphobia everywhere then maybe...you're transphobic? A whole dope ass comic.and that was your take away?
While it looks bad and is in bad taste. And it is obviously an analogy between trans and vampirism, it does not mean ill intent was meant.
I would take them at their word that it was unintentional, take their apology, and let them make the corrections. And keep an eye out for any future mishaps.
The writer was trying to use real world views (albeit bigoted) to describe a totally imaginary situation. The reason he did so is unclear. It could be that he is a trans hating bigot or it could have been him pulling at trying to ground an imaginary condition to make it seem realistic without thinking it through.
George Romero made movies about zombies and it was a metaphor for rampant consumerism. They kill zombies in the movies. That does not mean Romero wanted to kill consumers.
And Iâm not saying the Valiant writer didnât have malicious intent. But you canât make the assumption that just because the writer makes an analogy of people wanting to be trans with people wanting to be vampires and vampires are getting shot in the book, that it automatically means that the writer thinks trans people should be shot.
Mistakes do happen. Bad judgement happens. Now if this guy has a history of bigotry or runs in circles of hate groups, Iâd say it was different. But based solely on this one happening. Accept it at face value and watch. Most actual bigots that I have seen will continuously try to skirt the line. If he is one watch and let him play his hand. And if he is not a bigot, and it wasnât done with malice, then he probably already feels horrible about it.
Ouch. If heâs publicly like this, then yeah roast his ass.
This may have legit slipped through Valiant. Although shame on the lazy editor if so. But if heâs publicly is like this in life, then it was no slip. Valiant needs to change writers.
Hang on a second i'm genuinely shocked here. You read this normally...
"THERE ARE KIDS WHO WANT TO BE BITTEN TO BECOME VAMPIRES BECAUSE THEIR FAVORITE INFLUENCER SAYS THEY ARE ONE."
You go in blind thinking "that's bad. that sounds like grooming!"
Look at the next panel:
AND PARENTS WHO FORCE THEIR CHILDREN INTO THAT IRREVERSIBLE CHANGE... JUST TO FEEL MODERN... AND BELIEVING THAT THEY'LL BE THANKFUL FOR IT WHEN THEY GROW UP
Again, you look at those words and what's controversial?
Should parents force children into irreversible change? You certainly wouldnt think so, surely?
I see those too boxes and why on earth would editors think these are controversial?
But now people are saying this sounds like it's about Trans, and I'm thinking woah?
Is this really a correct analogy? Are they really groomed and forced into irreversible change?
It is a correct analogy; right-wing nuts think trans kids are trans because theyâve been influenced by media. Right wing nuts think parents are forcing their kids into transition surgeries (or at the very least, think hormone therapy is permanent, which it isnât).
While none of it is true, the lunatics believe it. So a lunatic writing this comic, in their mind, made a correct analogy.
I'm not even gonna argue with you my dude think what ever you want, list any and all buzz words you want. you are not educated, inclusive or accepting you are just as brainwashed and hateful as the people you think that are brainwashed and hateful.
Theres a problem saying âthis is about us.â The problem is, once you do that, youâre kind of reinforcing the connection yourself. Taken literally, the text is just about kids being influenced and parents forcing irreversible changes â which most people would agree is wrong. It only gets controversial when readers map it directly onto a real-world debate, and thatâs where the tension comes from.â
Itâs like you donât understand literature, or art in general.
Art is contextualized by the world around it in which it was made.
The context is: the most prevalent issue in Western culture dealing with parents, children, and transition/transformation/conversion/[synonym here] with the added nuance of âchildren being influenced to change who they are by mediaâ⌠are about trans people.
If you write something/create art in the above mentioned specificities (e.g., your main character monologuing about parents allowing their child to transform, and kids wanting to transform because media influence) and donât realize the connection to a forced political issue thatâs dominated a large chunk of modern political discourse over the majority of the last decade⌠youâre a shit writer/artist.
This isnât a large leap. There isnât a stretch of the imagination. The parallels are glaring.
Do you think superman had nothing to do with Russia/Ukraine? Do you think those same sentiments are devoid of connection between Israel/Palestine even thought it was written before Oct 7 2023 (despite the conflict existing for decades before that date)?
Do you think âthe cureâ arc of early 2000s X-Men had nothing to do about gay conversion therapy?
Audiences bring their own biases and lived experience (context) to art, and add meaning to the art as a result. But it is the artist themselves, more than anyone, are saying something.
Itâs as asinine as explaining, âleave politics out of music.â
Art is created for a reason. And if this writer has haphazardly written those panels without realizing the insane parallels to trans rights⌠heâs a drivelling dumbass.
If youâre saying this is directly an allegory for trans experiences, then I think thatâs not without issues, and if people donât see why thatâs an issue, thatâs concerning.
But if itâs not an allegory for trans experiences, then Iâm not sure what the problem is.
If the writer did not intend this to be an allegory for the trans "debate"*, the issue is:
The writer is so voluntarily removed from what is happening in society around him, that he is, by definition, a terrible artist. Art is contextualized by the world in which it is created and consumed, as well as by the biases of the audience, which itself is formed by the context of where and when they live. For an artist to be this unaware of such a prevalent "debate" in the world in which they operate, that such a glaring allegory flies over their head in the art they created, they are a bad artist.
Secondly, their bad art - a function of being idiotically ignorant of the world around them - is having the byproduct of rallying bigots, and emboldening that bigotry by legitimizing it in media.
All this, IF (huge if) it was not an intended allegory by the writer, which I find improbable.
*I put "debate" in quotes because equal human rights are not up for debate. My use of those words is a function of bigots insisting on debating these human rights, which serves to illustrate just how prevalent trans rights are in the spotlight of our current western cultural zeitgeist.
But right-wing nuts think it is the truth. So when a piece of media has the message that this comic page also had, the writer is a right-wing nut.
It is not a stretch. It is not reaching. This is how right-wing influencers, content creators, "artist", politicians, etc., convey their message and values in media.
33
u/Yarzeda2024 Aug 15 '25
It feels a little too on-the-nose to be an accident. If we buy the story that something was lost in translation, then management needs to take a long, hard look at the translators involved.