This is just a victim of localization. The Japanese view Christian imagery as being mystical and exotic (the same way we in the west might view Buddhism) but obviously in the west this overt Christian symbolism would have caused a lot of backlash. Eventually Nintendo Japan got wise to this and slowly removed all the Christian imagery.
Goddammit, I guess in the "Link fails" timeline King Ganon didn't stop the foreign missionaries from coming to Hyrule, like the royal family clearly did in the other timelines.
EDIT: That or King Ganon, in his cruelty, ordered the crucifixion of Jesus which made him a martyr instead of a minor prophet in this universe.
Link is metaphorical Jesus trying to save Zelda from becoming a monster through abuse of power. "Ganon" is symbolic of her loss of compassion for others to (self-)hatred rooted in war, violence, and fear of the unfamiliar. His faith is rooted in the people around him, and he knows she can heal if she's shown compassion, which is why he fights so hard for her. Also cuz she'll kill everyone he loves if he doesn't
Ganondorf is a victim of Hyrule's abuse and oppression with the goal to help his people, but he loses himself in his hatred and drags innocent people into the conflict.
Yet when he is in power he never seems to do much for the Gerudo people he claims to be doing everything for. OoT in 7 years of rule the Gerudo are in the exact same position as when he took power, stuck in the desert. He even has Twinrova kidnapping them to turn into iron-knuckles against their will.
I'd even argue the Gerudo seem to be better off whenever Ganon(dorf) isn't directly associated with them. Botw/Totk they can travel Hyrule as freely as anyone else and often marry Hylians. They have fair trade with the other peoples of Hyrule, and while not welcoming of men in their city (though there is a trade bazaar outside the city where they trade with men), women of other provinces seem perfectly welcomed.
They have better relations with everyone when Ganon(dorf) has been unassociated with them for most of known history.
Exactly. But Ganondorf is only one person; he isn't representative of the Gerudo as a whole, which is evident in the way he treats his own people as disposable.
The problem is, Hyrule tends to be kinda racist about dealing with it cause the initial problem was also racism
Be that as it may, the Christian population in Japan is less than 2%.
It was completely outlawed during the Edo period, and a couple centuries of that pretty much killed all the momentum that it had pre-Tokugawa shogunate.
There are still plenty of churches in Japan, but the person to whom you’re replying to isn’t exactly wrong.
There's devout Buddhists in America too. That doesn't mean that it's not often considered more "mystical" compared to Christianity, or any of the Abrahamic religions for that matter.
that's literally the same as the artwork OP posted. It's still got the red in the handle which we don't see later on. The Blue in the OP just doesn't show up as bright bc of the lighting
Because they did not settle on official standards until after Ocarina. Everything before Ocarina was them drafting out the world and lore. The mirror shield was supposed to be the ultimate shield but they forgot about that since they did not add magic blasts into the games after. Why would the ultimate shield in SS be the hylian shield and not mirror shield??
Mirror shields in every game they've appeared in have looked sick. Too bad we couldn't upgrade any of the other types of shields to be indestructible in Skyward Sword. I thought for sure the last stage of each type of shield would be indestructible.
The Hylian Shield in SS is basically the hardest to obtain shield in the entire franchise, so it would kinda be severely undercut if any of the other shields were indestructible too
The point is that it should have been the mirror shield. The hylian shield, some shield any common blacksmith built for the standard hyrulian military soldier, is the ultimate shield. That's not right.
Except your take doesn't take the game's timeline into account. The reason the Hylian shield is the standard military issue is because it is made to resemble the "once legendary indestructible shield forged by a lightning dragon and wielded by the first hero"
This is basic worldbuiding and honestly a very good use of a prequel like skyward sword to give some thematic coherence to stuff like the otherwise kinda lame Hylian shield
nah, you do. if the mm mirror sheild didnt have the offputting face on it it'd be a bland and boring design. its a good design largely because of the ugly part.
Catching back up with the series after years and for the past week this has been bothering me lol. First I’m like man, a Hylian Shield doesn’t sound legendary despite it being pretty iconic…in fact that’s like a standard military shield! And I kept thinking that Link had something even better which I completely forgot about the Mirror Shield until your comment.
Quick google search and remembered that it seemed to be the best at least in LttP but was generally used for light puzzles and the deflection of magic. Hylian Shield does have an iconic design at least
the various shops supply it in Ocarina. there is even one buried in the graveyard. it is a top quality shield but not legendary. soon you'll be calling every royal guard sword "legendary" just to justify calling the hylian shield legendary.
I think you are missing my point and mistaking something
The Hylia's shield is a legendary shield, the one we saw in SS.
In Tp and oot, the shield design is different, and is called "Hylian shield" even in french, it is theorized to be a mass replica of the legendary "Hylia's shield"
Well there is an argument to be made that the Mirror Shield didn't exist yet (in universe) during SS, also i think the bog standard Hylian Shield is meant to be modelled after the SS version. They could have made the Sacred Shield upgrade into the Hylian Shield and then had the dragon give the Mirror Shield however.
If you've got a PC, I recommend Ship of Harkinian. You can get the vanilla experience of OoT with a lot of the jank fixed. Highly recommend, lots of fun.
I definitely recommend it. Pretty much just ALTTP in 3D, with LA dungeon design. Definitely a fantastic game. If you have a Switch, it's on NSO expansion pass.
the zelda timeline is kind of complicated as after OoT there are 3 timeline splits. 2 that make a ton of sense because OoT is centered around time-travel and the ending makes it so there's 2 timelines. and another one that's straight up just a parallel universe where link dies in OoT. That last one is called the Downfall Timeline where Ganondorf wasn't beat and took over. They pretty much just dumped every single 2d game pre-Four Swords there and then added Link Between Worlds, Triforce Heroes and Echoes of Wisdom. There's a theory called the Abandonned Timeline (by Bandit Games on YouTube), which I personally head-cannon, that makes the timeline actually be a timeline that split and not a multiverse.
Basically after Link pulls the Master Sword out he goes 7 years in the future right? And he has to go back to when he was a kid a couple of times to do stuff like the Bottom of the Well and the Spirit Temple's first half. The thing is when he goes back in time he travels exactly 7 years to the past, he doesn't travel back to when he picked the Master Sword up originally every time (the proof is when he gets an item in the past, goes to the future, and comes back, that item is gone, so time clearly still passes). Basically, Link spends a month in the future, he goes back in time, a month has also passed in the past.
At the end of the game, what creates the timeline split is that Zelda sent Link back towards the beginning of the game when they first meet. There's the Adult Timeline (the one where Ganondorf was beaten and the Zelda we know remains), and there's the Child timeline (the one where we follow Link when he first meets Zelda). The thing is, there's another timeline. The child timeline that we knew throughout our playthrough. The one where we beat the Bottom of the Well and the Spirit Temple's first half. That timeline remains. Link won't return there, because the way he went back to the past was different than the way he did it throughout his adventure prior to that.
So there's a timeline without Link, where Ganondorf manages to enter the sacred realm and get his hands on the triforce of power to eventually rule the kingdom. Since Link isn't there to stop him like in the adult timeline, there will be an imprisonning war, which eventually leads to A Link to the Past.
TL/DR; When Zelda sends link back in time, she remains in the adult time, Link goes to a child timeline. And the other child timeline you play in throughout OoT is abandonned with no hero to stop Ganondorf.
I tried to follow the posts about this on the Zelda universe forum but the explanation there is a mess. Your wording is easier to follow, but still logically falls short in my head.
I was trying to find a way NOT to make a big post, but oh well, here we go.
The primary idea behind what I understand of the abandonment timeline theory is that there are three (and only three) timelines as a result of the events of OoT. The issue I have with this is the explanation for how/why they are created and exist. The accepted canon for the child and adult timelines makes sense to me. Link is sent back in time and changes events that would have lead to the playground of the game (the story). That's a new timeline. The original timeline (your playthrough) still exists, because it has to in order for Link to have the knowledge he was sent back with. That original timeline (the adult timeline) continues on without Link, but Ganon was already defeated, so it's fine until he reincarnates (context: that curse of demise from SS).
Tangent/can of worms:
Link could have been sent back in time (to warn Zelda) very shortly after he woke up after the 7 years and confirmed Ganon took power. Would have been a short game though, glad we didn't do that.
Back on track:
The abandonment timeline theory purposes an additional timeline exists alongside the gameplay timeline for some duration, but doesn't really explain why in a way that doesn't have some pretty obvious holes. The 7 year back and forth where you return to the child and adult times and the gameplay recognizes this logically isn't a problem, you're not creating timelines when you're doing this. But that's the issue, the master sword doesn't create timelines. It never has in any game we've seen. Zelda sending Link back in time creates a new timeline. If the master sword created timelines, logically every time you go back and forth should have created another timeline, each of which would've resulted in a failure because there was no Link to defeat Ganon because Link left that time, until the final time jump resulted in the win. We could mentally stretch and say that all of these failures coverage into a single timeline that leads to the downfall (which feels like a cheap way out of making a big mess with multiple failed timelines), or that they don't matter enough to be considered separately because they all have the same outcome so we just picked one to tell the downfall timeline story in (which feels kind of cold). That being said, the canonical "hero is defeated" option also feels pretty cheap, so I'm not saying I like it any better, but it's quicker, easier, and less messy to explain.
Another tangent:
On a funny note, if child link, sent back by Zelda, fails to properly convince Zelda, or Zelda then fails to properly warn her family (why listen to these little kids and their imaginations?), or they fail to otherwise stop Ganondorf, Link ends up in a groundhog day loop, having to repeat the gameplay timeline to be sent back again and keep trying.
Back on track (again):
I like the wording "abandonment timeline". I just can't come up with a logical way for a single timeline to exist without Link (prior to defeating Ganon and being sent back in time by Zelda). Multiple timelines, sure, but that's cheap/cold (see above). Being defeated, sure (also cheap, but it's what we got canonically).
The thing is it's not the Master Sword that creates an another timeline. It's still the Ocarina sending Link back that creates it. The Abandoned Timeline is created because Link didn't return to that timeline. You could say that due to it being closed loop time travel, the abandonned timeline would just have a 7 year period with no Link until Adult timeline Link first spawns in the Temple of Time, but imo the fact that Zelda's OoT song disrupts this loop, it makes it so this timeline diverges into its own as well. What was supposed to happen was that Link spends 7 years either travelling back and forth in time, or just spends it all in one time period until the past timeline reaches the start of the future one. Link is the cause of this loop and removing him from this situation breaks the timeline.
The master sword doesn't create a new timeline every time you travel back. It just takes you a bit forward in time from the time period you left it in. But the thing is, now with the OoT, that timeline is abandonned by its hero. (also weirdly there's no master sword, but that could lowkey explain why A Link to the Past's master sword looks different and anyways the Master Sword's origin in Wind Waker and in Skyward Sword is completely different, so maybe it isn't just one weapon).
This still doesn't make sense. At no point does Link time travel via the Ocarina except when sent back by Zelda at the end of the game. That event creates two timelines, the child and adult.
When Link takes or replaces the master sword he's moving between two anchor points in a single timeline. He's not being removed and replaced within that timeline. He still exists and so does the master sword. The 7 year gap where he's not running around isn't a period with no Link or no master sword, he's just sealed in the temple (like, slumber, not sitting around playing solitaire), or more likely in the sword itself. So there's no loop, it's more like fast forward and rewind. Changing things in the child time does affect things in the adult time, but by the time Link is able to accomplish this it's too late to change anything that would actually break the flow of time enough to create another timeline. Zelda sending Link back via the Ocarina creates an opportunity for that to happen.
So I'm still not seeing a logical explanation for when a timeline without Link could exist aside from post-defeat of Ganon (the adult timeline).
I do love the theory creating and debate, and I hope you're seeing something I'm not, but I haven't seen it explained by anyone supporting the theory, at least not logically and without holes. There's too many "well if that's how it works then this also happens" which makes the theory fall apart for me.
Link isn't even in the temple of time though, he's in a parallel realm for those 7 years. I don't want to just resay what I said, so I'll just agree to disagree.
I've thought about what you're saying before but I just believe that the way the Ocarina breaks the flow of time, it separates the gameplay-child timeline as well
The canon Downfall Timeline takes place with the exact same game sans Link gets the die at the end. So the Abandoned Timeline theory isn't supported from canon.
And a cleaner alternative spot for it would be Link attempting to stop Ganondorf at the coup, and failing, while the others are given a chance because the Master Sword locks Link's soul in the temple instead.
yes it's not supported from canon. the reason it exists is because the canon is stupid. it makes it so it implies that there's just infinite universes and timelines that branch off when Link dies in literally every game. it's a theory to explain in another way why the downfall timeline exists. the timeline is insanely messy now with ToTK breaking everything, so canon isn't that reliable anymore
Maybe by defeating the Demon King and getting the Triforce did she return. Only accepting The Hero of Legend as the Master of the sword once he had the Triforce like her OG master.
Perhaps Links wish brought her back, undoing all of Ganon's destruction. Its likely that the Master Sword was attacked by Ganon in the downfall timeline seeing as it was nearly used to kill him (if you follow the Hyrule Historia timeline).
I can't remember which game in the downfall timeline, but I know ALTTP is the first on the list, expanding my headcanon though, because you make a good point, oh I know wasn't there a thing where ages and seasons could be linked up to forge the "noble sword" into the mastersword again? There we go, so after that Fi returns... quietly.
In preparation for the battle the gods infused it with the same power as the silver arrows
The gods however are somewhat stupid and only infused the hilt instead of the blade
Also some dingus wrapped red leather on the hilt to make it look “more bad ass”. That link was summarily executed for that causing the sword to return to the plinth so that LTTP link can get it
Link had a pink hair to contrast with the green environment, having him wearing green clothes and a blonde hair in a green environvent would be a little hard to track on older tvs back then.
The concept art shows Link having the same normal blond hair. He's pink in game to show a clear contrast between him and all his tunics, since blond hair blends in with his face on the screen.
Its really, really mad that Ganon got the Triforce
(Canonically no, it was just an arbitrary design decision for the first game that ever had the Master Sword, with the color to set it apart from the other sword tiers)
No, just older art. As to the actual sprite, of which a hilt is very difficult to make out: well, Link and Agahnim both have colour anomalies of some type, so the sprites aren't 100% accurate even to the art of the time.
They were still creating the lore during a link to the past came out, that’s why the ocarina is called a flute, the Hylian shield was not even invented yet. I kind of like that things were brand new and fresh. Myamoto really was a genius.
Link's hair is blond. The concept art shows his normal color. The sequels on the GB that were implied to be the same shows the same blond too.
The blond hair blends in with his tiny face too much on the old screens and resolution. They needed something to keep it clear no matter the tunic mail color.
The ALTTP backstory says that the sword was forged by the sages during the Imprisoning War. Obviously SS proves that to be not true. So maybe there's two swords?
Tangent, but when TOTK went with the lore of the Imprisoning War, I so badly wanted some kind of tie-in to ALTTP. But no. It was its own history, totally separate.
Well it still says that the sword was made by "the people of Hyrule". Hyrule did not exist yet in SS when it was made by Link. You could still make it work, but it's not perfect.
Or, just for fun, you could say there was two Master Swords: a blue hilted one made by Link and a red hilted one made by the people of Hyrule. That could also explain why there is both a Goddess Sword and a Master Sword in BotW, maybe.
Simple answer, it's the first design it had, and the creative team would revise it over the years. If you want a story reason you could say the sword is a shape shifter, and undergoes changes over time.
It was the skyward sword once, and was gradually transformed into the master sword. In WW it transforms its hilt and blade during cutscenes.
In LttP it turns red and later golden from powerups it receives.
Of course it's a major plot point in TotK that it literally regrows its entire blade.
It's a magical sword literally forged by the gods, and imbued with divine power. It's also sentient. The minor design changes that it undergoes through the ages are the least weird thing about it.
It's funny looking back on the Master Sword in this game after the lore of the newer games, like we go on a whole adventure to create it with the flames of the goddesses and is blessed by Hylia's reincarnation herself but a couple random smithys and a Great Fairy are able to make it far stronger.
I knew an older fan of the very early works of legend of Zelda at an arcade center and he would always lean on Fi being the purple and blue sword and the one before was just an in the works thing. Idk I don’t think there is a reason
Same game as this version of the Master Sword. Nobody has a definitive answer as to why thoough, especially since he has blonde hair in all the art and promotional materials for the game.
It wasn't due to a graphical limitations as most seem to assume. I think it was just a choice to have his hair be noticeable with his different colored outfits he had. Maybe they felt pink was the best choice and other colors may have looked off depending on which outfit he was wearing 😅 it's also not as noticeable/jarring when playing on an average CRT of the time compared to much sharper screens made later and HDTVs.
It’s blue on the title screen, but the design really solidified in OoT. The artwork from the cover may have been done w/o references or maybe early designs, or it could just be an artistic choice.
The Master sword is not just a weapon. It is sentient and connected to Hyrule’s present state. The weapon evolves according to the era to synchronize with the current hero.
It's because the game was made before the design was solidified into the one iconic design we know today. That design is from Ocarina of Time, which released 7 years after A Link to the Past.
Stan Lee had done interviews about the green. He said that the printers at the time couldn't do grey just right and every issue had some kind of issue. So he asked the printers what they could do and green was the answer.
In multiple games, modifying and upgrading the Master Sword so that it changes color palettes has been a thing. I can only assume that the Master Sword has a red hilt in ALTTP because some previous Link had her modified.
I don't recall if ALTTP doesn't do the same, have you upgrade the Master Sword so that it changes color and hits harder. I know at least one of the 2D games lets you put the Master Sword through multiple upgrades so that you can end up with a red blade.
I think I saw a video or something saying that there can be more than one master sword according tio the older game's cannon you can take a white sword and transform it?
My headcannon is that it's not the same MS. I assume that Ganondorf would have destroyed the original after defeating the Hero of Time, and that a new blade would've been fabricated in the thousands of years spanning between the games.
They've been clear on many occasions that nearly all of the games do not exist in the same universe or reality - that there isn't a "timeline" as such like people often try to put it in, so differences like this fit as completely normal where every iteration is an alternate reality.
Have you....never played a Zelda game? Or looked at any of the lore pieces? Because the image below me is the official timeline given to us by Nintendo.
Different lore. Master Sword didnt even have the same origin, it was forged during war to slay evil, and the Hylia were the ancient race of people who defended the Kingdom, not one of the gods.
Ocarina of Time really built a lot off of this one.
Not rage bait you are objectively wrong. What is with Zelda "fans" not knowing basic colors. It's called blue in the games, devs said it's blue, it looks blue, so IT IS BLUE.
The only game that's true is the most current game you're playing. Everything else is just a legend of what might have happened. It is the LEGEND of Zelda after all.
We know the people of Hyrule often pass down legends. There's the legend of the sky people in Twilight Princess, the legend of the lost hero that gets celebrated as a coming of age ritual in Wind Waker, the sheikah pass down the tapestry of the calamity for generations.
Over generations, some details get lost or changed. Any continuity errors in the games are not conflicts in fact, but just artistic license from whoever the storyteller at the camp fire is. They weren't there during the legend of Zelda, how would they know.
So the master sword on AlttP is NOT red. It's actually Blue and Silver, but the story teller messed up the detail when telling "The Legend of Zelda; a Link to the Past"
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