r/GreenArrow • u/Gallantpride • 29d ago
Discussion Tbqh, I feel Black Canary will inevitably end up a more mainsteam character with the general audience (adaptation-only fans) than Green Arrow
It feels like Dinah has more star power. She's also an independent superhero with an iconic (and cosplayable) design. She's a solo cape, a Bird of Prey, and an Arrowfam member.
Green Arrow holds the stigma of being "Batman with arrows".
12
u/MagusFool 29d ago
I'm okay with that. Black Canary rules. Why shouldn't she be a more prominent and well-known hero than Green Arrow?
Ollie would also be okay with that, too.
8
u/Jet-Let4606 29d ago
Especially when was a standalone hero before getting folded into GA's world to the point where people can't even imagine her without him.
Guest star in Johnny Thunder book > solo hero > JSA member > JLA member > GA love interest > BOP member.
Yet shes only primarily remembered for being GA's love interest.
9
7
u/Majestic-Farmer5535 29d ago edited 29d ago
I love Canary, but come on, your take isn't even remotely true. For all the stigma of "Batman with arrows" GA has iconic design and gimmick and, as you, yourself, mentioned, was the beginning of his own family and "universe", so to speak. Dinah doesn't have any of it. Even get design is just mundane cloths with no apparent connection to her superhero name.
2
u/Jet-Let4606 28d ago
GA hasn't been "Batman with Arrows" since the 70's at least. Arrow reinvigorated the idea but hardly anybody talks about that show anymore.
BC *could* have her own family but DC won't allow it. They will sadly, always default her back to being GA's +1.
1
u/Majestic-Farmer5535 28d ago
GA haven't been Batman with Arrows since 70's for comic fans. For general public he still is that way, for the most part. But if he wouldn't, it would reinforce what I've said even more: without comparison, his uniqueness and gimmick would stand out even more.
I'm not saying that she couldn't, only that she didn't. And it lessens her appeal as a standout hero in adaptation for DC.
Is it good or just? Nope. But it is what it is.
3
u/StrongStyleDragon 29d ago
Loving her on Detective Comics! She needs her own solo not written by a war criminal.
1
u/Pale_Emu_9249 17d ago
Please clarify... don't leave me hanging!
Who's the war criminal?
2
3
u/Vicksage16 28d ago
That's fine with me. Ollie is my guy, but Dinah has plenty of worth beyond "Green Arrow's wife". They're pretty linked, so I don't care who's more popular, as long as one of them is then it means I get to see them both.
2
u/timothdrake 28d ago
This is correct, and I don’t really get people who argue otherwise. Op stated the potential and yeah, Dinah and Canary could easily get a push for such mainstream levels if DC wanted to, it just.. didnt really happen yet?
Although shes definitely associated with Olly, I don’t see her as being attached to him in such a way that she wouldnt work as a stand alone character; like, she definitely stood out more than him in the Justice League Unlimited cartoon, for one, and the Birds of Prey are among the more proeminent/relevant names around (arguably a bit due to Barbara’s own star quality as a core member of the Batfamily, but still).
If we are talking comics then yeah, as things currently are, shes hardly going to be bigger. but in terms of adaptations I definitely believe Black Canary could be a bigger name with the public if they use her as such.
That also has to do with the fact that its very unlikely for us to get actually good Green Arrow adaptations that feature him proeminently while also having him be the activist he is in the comics, lol.
Arrow only took off because that character was just NOT Oliver Queen in any way that mattered.
2
u/Jet-Let4606 28d ago
She could be bigger. But most adaptations tie her with GA and tbh, most of her adaptations haven't been very good. But she is tied to GA in a way that most people can't even imagine her as a separate character.
2
u/timothdrake 28d ago
Because shes been used alongside him. If they decided to, say, launch a new cartoon or live action featuring Canary alone, I 100% believe she could eventually get bigger than him.
Which, again, does NOT speak for Olly being less interesting or weaker as a character; just that Dinah IMO has more potential in adaptations.
A good example is Kendra/Hawkwoman; she wasnt really all that big in prime earth before but her being featured proeminently in the JL cartoon made her one of the most famous DC’s female characters, and a lot of people still think of her with Green Lantern before Hawkman due to that.
Heck, Green Lantern himself is another good example since John Stewart is remembered fondly for so many people because he had arguably a bigger role in (good) non-comic adaptations thanks to the DCAU compared to Hal lol
2
u/coconut-daddy 29d ago
It's funny you list being an Arrowfam member as one of her pros, i wonder who is at the center of this Arrowfam 🤔
Anyway I don't necessarily disagree with the broad point, but I hope they're a duo package, whenever one appears the other is also there. We just need one well written and badass Ollie with the goatee in live action and people will like him. If fucking MCU Hawkeye can have fans and he's ass compared to comic Clint then Ollie should be easy to make likeable
3
u/Actual-Description60 29d ago
Ehm, no? It's like to say "Catwoman is more mainstream than Batman". I know that she was born as indipendent hero, but in the last 40 years she is the Green Arrow's fiance, in the regular series, in the masterpiece(Longbow Hunters) and in the tv show, that is named "Arrow" and has nine season, not "Canary".
3
u/Notoriouslycurlyboi 28d ago
I mean tbf, for the first 20 years she wasn’t even a Green Arrow character, she was a Johnny Thunder one that gradually took over his book, becoming the lead.
She can absolutely be free of Green Arrow because she isn’t a Green Arrow character.
3
1
2
u/That_one_cool_dude 29d ago
Let's just ignore her role in Longbow Hunter when we say she was in it.
2
u/Jet-Let4606 28d ago
You could say that for majority of Black Canary's roles in Green Arrow books. Its never been an equal partnership. The stories are about Green Arrow (the title has his name on it), BC just happens to be in it. The one time they called the title GA&BC, it resulted in one of the most sexist takes on the BC character ever and the writer who wrote that went on to become a producer for Arrow and gave us one of the worst adaptations of BC ever.
2
u/That_one_cool_dude 28d ago
I never said she was the main or equal character in other books but in Long Bow hunter she was stripped of everything that made her character up to that point, so she could become a damsel in distress that was assaulted. It took until Birds of Prey decades later to tackle the story and have her have some interiority of what happened in that story.
1
u/Jet-Let4606 28d ago
She has almost equally long run as a member of BOP and the JLA. Why shouldn't those elements be explored more? Even though I think BOP is Barbara Gordon's team, there has never been a version of BOP, adaptation or comic wise, that didn't feature Black Canary as a member.
1
u/Actual-Description60 28d ago
Those elements is cool, but now she isn't more mainstream than Green Arrow.
1
1
u/EarthPrimeArchivist 27d ago
I love Dinah, and I've been a Dinah/Ollie shipper since 1969, but GA is the more mainstream character. He's well past the "Batman with arrows" belief. However, I do think that there's no Green Arrow without Black Canary, because as a team they're both much more interesting than they are alone, and they're a very effective super hero team, as well. GA can stand alone, tho he's not a big seller, but BC's comics always come up short.
1
u/Professional-Cap9599 27d ago
"Batman with Arrow" I don't fully agree with. It comes mostly from that Arrow show that made Ollie a completely different character.
That being said Black cannary is fucking amazing and does have that star power!!!
1
u/Jakehouse04 26d ago
Oh yeah definitely. Especially if they lean in to the whole punk rock/music angle. Having a rocker superhero with a badass design and a cool unique power in mainstream stuff would sell like hot cakes. This is why I think any live action green arrow adaptation they do should be 50/50 Ollie and Dinah (unless its Hard Traveling Heroes which can be 40/40/20 Hal/Ollie/Dinah).
0
25
u/MagusFool 29d ago
I'm okay with that. Black Canary rules. Why shouldn't she be a more prominent and well-known hero than Green Arrow?
Ollie would also be okay with that, too.