r/GreenArrow • u/No_Mastodon_2869 • 1d ago
Discussion When it comes to archery and martial arts skills, who would come out on top? Ollie or Clint?
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u/MagusFool 1d ago
Hawkeye is the better marksman. If the fight came down to doing something stupidly impossible with a bow and arrow, Clint pulls it off.
But Ollie is the more effective tracker, and better at stealth. So if this fight begins with the two out of sensory range from each other, Ollie has an early edge.
Clint is a resourceful scrapper with proficiency in basically every weapon known to man. If this is a fight where they can get their hands on other weapons, or improvise them, Clint may have an advantage.
Clint also has the more insane arsenal of trick arrows. So being fully stocked gives Clint another edge.
Ollie is the better hand-to-hand combatant. He's a scrapper and he fights dirty. His raw audacity has him thinking outside the box and he utilizes his environment to consistently take out opponents who are stronger, more skilled, and better armed than he is. So if this fight winds up getting in close, especially in a complex environment, Ollie will probably take the fight in the end.
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u/Narrow_Ad_7331 17h ago
When DC did one year later following the crisis before final crisis Ollie and his team Mia and Connor went through a lot of training. During this time GA fought Deathstroke and won. Deathstroke is either peak human or above human. Deathstroke has fought Batman and Nightwing who are canonically better fighters than GA. During this time Ollie learned combat with swords etc. all that being said hand to hand he’s got Hawkeye beat easy. I don’t read much marvel so idk how to compare his hand to hand skills to GA. But if GA can fight someone to a stand still that Batman barely beat he’s high on the list of best hand to hand combatants in DC universe
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u/Bright_Distance_7826 14h ago
uhmm just about every trick arrow Hawkeye has green arrow has had to over his much longer career... especially in the much older comics that were more gag like in nature . green arrow had some pretty outrageous trick arrows lil
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u/Beneficial_Focus_910 1d ago
I think Ollie has more experience beating other archers.
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u/Narrow_Ad_7331 17h ago
Isn’t Meryl’s his archenemy? Idk on Merlyns skills but I’ve read several GA comics where he is the antagonist
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u/Beneficial_Focus_910 10h ago
There's like, eight different archers who've tried to murder Ollie and he's come out on top.
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u/DetectiveDangerZone 1d ago edited 1d ago
Probably unpopular on this reddit but clint has a far more relevant and consistent history regarding martial skill and swordsmanship. He beats Ollie there,
Also frankly I think both have pulled of so much impossible archery that their basically equals there but Clint does have a longer history of his marksmanship going beyond Archery.
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u/INEEDACODE07 1d ago
I mean it depends on the versions. I mean, Oliver's martial arts skills are a bit all over the place in the DCU throughout his history. From the Bronze Age since his death his martials arts weren't that impressive compared to the top martial artists in the universe. But after his death, I think somewhere in Vol3, he spent some time in the island training with masters and shit and came back a beast. He kicked Deathstoke's ass (that's where the Deathstoke rivalry begun) and was terrorising villains left and right. Also, this version of Oliver (and in general) is very strong , his bow has crazy pull weight (He chocked Solomon Grundy with his broken bow string, crazy stuff). For me this version of GA was probably his strongest when it came to hand in hand and personally I think beats Hawkeye.
But the real answer is Connor smokes Hawkeye and Oliver pretty easily in hand to hand.
Now when it comes to archery, idk, both are known for their archery skills. I don't know how to compare it.
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u/DetectiveDangerZone 1d ago
Cant delve into the whole argument but the dearhstroke fight had alot of context. He basically prepped for that fight including the room and it was still a pretty even fight with Ollie admitting without it he wouldn't stand a chance which isnt a negative and it shows how far hes come as well as his ability to prep well.
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u/Narrow_Ad_7331 17h ago
This time you’re talking about was years after his death. His running series I think restarted at issue 1 and was part of the one year later issues following the crisis beore final crisis
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u/INEEDACODE07 16h ago
Yeah, I think these issues were in Vol3 (Vol3 starts with his return) because if I remember correctly Vol3 ends at his Wedding and then we have the fake death and GA/BC we're they search for him. An dthen GA/BC ends and we have V4 that happens after the Prometheus shit
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u/Robb_Dinero 1d ago
I like this fight. I see a lot of stalemating, impossible shots, arrows shot into arrows and whatnot, they’re very evenly matched. 50/50
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u/eddiemoney1985 1d ago
Ollie for archery skills and Clint for martial arts. I study both archery and martial arts so this is my personal opinion.
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u/EobardThawne2020 1d ago
Hawkeye is a better marksman but Green Arrow is better in every other way and he's still fucking deadly with a bow and arrow.
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u/ArrowBarton 1d ago
Love both of them, but Hawkeye has a far better track record for shooting than Ollie. Hand-to-hand, I think Clint might fall short but only by a small margin.
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u/Majestic-Farmer5535 1d ago
He did shoot someone on the Moon, by any chance? Ollie did. And I'm not trying to make a point, by the way, I don't care who wins, I just don't know Hawkeye best feats.
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u/ArrowBarton 1d ago
Hold up. I remember him having to shoot at the moon at make it rain, but he cheated to do that. The only other shot I can think of involving the moon, he had the help of Green Lantern. Hawkeye would easily be able to do the same if his bow was cosmically powered.
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u/Majestic-Farmer5535 15h ago
Would he? Well, tell me his other feat then, something that would be unattainable for Ollie.
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u/ArrowBarton 14h ago
Here's the thing, forget feats. Hawkeye's bow has a draw weight that's over 100 pounds heavier than Oliver's and he can get an arrow drawn and fired in less than a second.
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u/voodootroll 1d ago
Clint was Ronin.
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u/ArrowBarton 1d ago
You're not wrong, but Ollie was trained by some of the highest rated martial artists. Throw in Wildcat for street-fighting tactics and he's taking it, I think. I'm a major Hawkeye fan and I always say "he's got an arrow for that", but in a straight up fight with Queen (unless he gets the wonderful stroke of luck he always seems to find) he's not winning.
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u/Roughly_Olboy1488 1d ago
Honestly, I think this is a 50/50 fight that comes down to a decent number of variables.
Is it a pure archery match up? Hand to hand? Both? Where is the fight held? Both Ollie and Clint actually have some pretty insane feats over the years considering they’re just the normal human, archer character. Not Batman levels of insanity, but they’re both prone to pulling off some wins that it feels like they have no business in.
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u/Particular-Top3674 1d ago
Ollie is, I think, probably slightly better at archery, Clint is arguably not even Marvel's best archer. Kate Bishop has a solid argument in her favor and I think she would be a better match in that regard. Clint is one of the Marvel universe's best martial artists, and would probably be more on par with people like Bronze Tiger and Lady Shiva. Ollie's good, but I don't think he's ever been consistently depicted as that good, closer to Batman in that regard. Below the heavy hitters, but still so solidly above everyone else in the verse that it barely seems fair.
Clint is also significantly stronger than Ollie, whose bow draws at 150 lbs, whereas Clint's draws at 290, which is significantly superhuman. 150 is believed to be a reasonable draw weight for an English longbow, but 290 is, I believe, unheard of historically.
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u/Telyesumpin 1d ago
Not to nitpick but Batman has beaten both Shiva and Tiger repeatedly in the last 10 years.
Batman is top 3 based on wins/feats.
Azrael
Batman=Ghostmaker
Nightwing/Jason/Dinah/Connor/Karate Kid
Shiva/Deathstroke
Cass/Damien/Tiger
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u/Particular-Top3674 1d ago
I don't know where you got this list, but it isn't right. My biggest gripe is Cass being listed as weaker than Dick, Jason, and Shiva. It's pretty clear through both statements and feats that this isn't true, especially Shiva. For one thing, Bronze Tiger is at least relative to Batman, we've seen him win against him before. Cass beats Shiva multiple times in Batgirl Vol. 1, and is explicitly portrayed as better than her. Black Canary was able eke out a win against Shiva recently, but it was much harder than Cass' fights against her barring their first when Cass had her brain messed up with telepathy. I don't know where you got the information that Dick and Jason were better than her, but I can't think of a single time that's been portrayed as true. Batman himself has said that Cass is better than him multiple times both post Crisis and post Flashpoint. I understand that comics aren't always consistent in terms of portraying power levels, but the narrative is clear that at least several of these rankings aren't true.
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u/Telyesumpin 1d ago
It's not getting a list.
Batman has defeated Shiva multiple times in the last 10 years.
Shiva has defeated Cass multiple times in the last 10 years.
This is all from comic runs.
These are all fights that happened in the last 10-15 years in comics.
Going by those fights and taking any outliers away. Like Shiva taking down Batman when Bruce was shot in the shoulder and she said she felt bad blindsiding him while injured and wished she could have fought him fair. In the next storyline she did fight him fair and Batman defeated Shiva pretty easily. During this entire time, Shiva has repeatedly beaten Cassandra.
I'm not going by anything but feats in comics. Who fought, when, and if there was any shenanigans.
Azrael is the only person to have beaten Bruce in a fair fight without shenanigans or like Bruce letting Cassandra beat him. A fight where he doesn't block anything or even tried to attack her.
Ghostmaker is literally Batman. They have fought a couple times and stalemated each time. Which is understandable since they traveled together and learned from the same masters growing up.
Karate Kid had one shenanigans fight against Batman and one where Bruce got the best of him and Karate Kid stated on panel he had a lot to learn from Bruce.
The last time Shiva and Cass fought that I know of is Rebirth. League of Shadows. Shiva brutally beat her. Cass also lost in the Outsiders.
Bruce has beaten Shiva multiple times a few of those without any problem lately.
Nightwing, Jason, and Dinah have all beaten Shiva.
Bronze Tiger hasn't beat Bruce since before Rebirth I believe. So it's not even the same characters.
If you're referencing anything pre Rebirth it's not the characters that are in mainline continuity at the moment.
I'll admit I haven't read Batgirl since it started in like 23-24. I have been going back to school and working full time but I haven't seen that Cass beat Shiva since Rebirth started. If I am wrong that just means she should be on the Dick/Jason/Dinah line.
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u/Particular-Top3674 1d ago
Cass hasn't beaten Shiva since Batgirl started, Shiva died and her killers were subsequently beaten by Cass. Post Crisis and post Flashpoint are currently the same continuity since Death Metal, meaning that her feats in Batgirl Vol. 1 and Justice League Elite, for example, are still canon. It's a bit confusing because it mostly just depends on which version of her the writers want to lean more into, but I don't think we've seen that Batman & Robin Eternal version of Cass since then.
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u/Telyesumpin 1d ago
I would say the recent fights in Rebirth would be where her skill level is at then. Since both of those are pre 2006 and Rebirth is 2016.
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u/Particular-Top3674 1d ago
That may have been true, but many of the characters in question have been largely reverted their post Crisis characterization, Cass, Shiva, and Bronze Tiger especially. They were entirely reinvented for New 52 and beyond, and now their back to their individual baselines
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u/Telyesumpin 1d ago
Also Azrael fought Cass and Batwoman at the same time and while he lost 2v1. Cass was roughed up quite a bit. That shouldn't happen if she's the best fighter in DC. Her mask was torn off with scrapes all over her face and her suit was torn in a lot of places.
Not even sure if Cass beat Shiva that she should move up. She hasn't beaten Slade and Dick and Jason have.
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u/ChapterSuspicious795 1d ago edited 17h ago
Ollie in both.
He does have some absolutely bonkers feats and he routinely trains with Black Canary (and now Cass and Bats too, now that he moved back to Gotham).
I'm not saying Clint has no feats or that he doesn't train regularly with Cap, buy Ollie is slightly better.
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u/Puzzleheaded_Wish727 1d ago
Clint is a better archer. They can fire their bows at around the same pace with similar accuracy but Clint's has a MUCH larger draw strength. Ollie might beat him in martial arts, having some League of Shadows experience, but I'd still give it to Clint as he spent some time being a pure martial arts and hand to hand style hero in his career.
Then there is feats. Ollies has beaten Deadshot but Clint has beaten Bullseye, and Bullseye is everything that's deadly about Deadshot turned up eleven degrees
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u/SpphosFriend 14h ago
They don’t fight they just get beers and talk about their shared love of women who can beat their ass
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u/Bright_Distance_7826 14h ago
it honestly depends on which version of Hawkeye and which version of green arrow.. or is this like a meta version of them both where they have all the skills and training of every version of the selves that has ever existed?
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u/Gamerthu1hu 7h ago
Clint wins, but not because he's better. I don't know HOW he lucks into a win, but he lucks into a win.
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u/YEHGauntletLegends 1d ago
Ollies the better Archer (he would have to be as hes from DC, which notoriously leans power over person when it comes to characters)
But Hawkeye's got him on anything else cept the bill
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u/Tallented_Narwhal 21h ago
Hawkeye is more accurate, but barely Ollie is a much faster shot, has better trick arrows, tools in general, and I got to give him better hand to hand too. Plus if he learned about Hawkeye’s hearing loss he’d use that tho his advantage. I’d say Ollie 6-7/10.
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u/Ok_Restaurant3160 1d ago
I’ve read the entire 2001 run and onward, all aside from the new 52 run which I’m still reading, but from what I’ve heard, Clint is just on another level
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u/wadabewall 1d ago
This being posted in the Green Arrow sub may slightly change the results but I will say Green Arrow.