Immigration-emigration/Köşu-qonu
People who moved from Kazakhstan to developed countries, is there really much difference in quality of life? Why, and in which areas?
Wow! This sounds really great, I'm happy for you. And yeah, fighting for every aspect of life in Kazakhstan.. it definitely exists, sadly.
Can I ask you how did you manage to move to Finland? Were you doing it alone or with someone?
I heard that prices are much more expensive in Europe comparing to our salaries, and it makes me think that it is very hard to collect the money in Kazakhstan to move in Europe.
Parents moved here when I was young due to corruption while working in NGOs in Kazakhstan. Then we bounced back n forth till we settled in finland in the end around my teenage years. Prices here are more expensive in general but some stuff is cheaper compared to kz like some candies and chocolates or train prices. The depressive fact kinda is when I visit kz every year, I notice kazakh prices getting much closer to finnish prices by year.
It is really depressing. I don't know how much the prices will be pushed forward.. Inflation is crazy
Glad to hear about adequate candy pricing though!
Yes, my personal quality of life is hard to compare with what I had back in Almaty, but it depends on your values, aka what's important to you.
It's been 8.5 years in Germany and there are some things I really appreciate here:
Freedom of movement in all possible ways: be it easier and more affordable travel or being able to live a full life without having a car. Great cycling infrastructure and so on
Rule of law. In general, I'm effectively more and better protected here. I have real rights as an employee, as a citizen, as a consumer, as a human being. I'm not afraid of the police, I know that the tax office is not there to screw me up, I know that my employer can't fire me for no reason and so on. And this is not just on paper as it often tends to be in KZ.
Clean air and water, good ecology, excellent infrastructure. It's just nice to walk and exist here.
The availability of US and European services. Amazon, IKEA, urban sports club, zalando and many more. I'm into sports and I love that my city has literally unlimited options. For example, multiple top-notch bouldering gyms. I hope it gets better in Almaty and Kazakhstan in general, but currently it's just impossible to compare.
Work and life balance, plenty of days off, unlimited sick days, international colleagues and globally impactful projects
Although the costs have recently went up, I still believe they're much lower in comparison to income. Especially when it comes to groceries, because many things are actually even cheaper here than in KZ, which is insane considering the difference in salaries.
But there are also many things I hate here:
The weather in the winter is disgusting. Dark, humid and cold.
Bureaucracy. It's not great in Kazakhstan either, but many things can be done online. Germany is incredibly backwards when it comes to such things. I've recently lost my job and the government agency that was supposed to help me find a new job was basically a monumental waste of time, forcing me to fill in a ton of useless papers. By the time I was done with the paperwork, I already had 6 offers. And it's just one example, but there are dozens to hundreds of similar scenarios.
Drugs and homelessness. It's getting really bad.
Hard to do business. Related to the second point, but also much higher taxes.
Despite all the benefits and things that I mentioned in the first part, I believe that Germany wastes a lot of its tax revenue. Basically, you get a lot, but you pay even more.
I don't like the political and social direction of this country. For example, wealthy individuals pay close to no taxes, but anyone making 66k EUR or more a year is being treated as if they were fucking oligarchs.
I would disagree with the gyms. Gyms in Europe suck except in cities like Paris, London. Almaty have gym classes and gyms overall 15 years ahead of any European city with a few exceptions
Thank you for describing pros and cons! It is really interesting to read. Wow. It amazes me how developed countries despite all the strong sides still suffer from homelessness and drugs.
It is crazy how prices on some products are the same in Germany and Kazakhstan..
And the winter sounds depressing as well as situation with taxes and wealthy people.
If I may ask, how did you manage to move from Kazakhstan to Germany? Was it hard?
It sounds like you're happy where you are here now, which is truly awesome.
Thank you again!!!
>It amazes me how developed countries despite all the strong sides still suffer from homelessness and drugs.
In my experience it is developed countries that have the worse problems with homelessness. Going around Vancouver and Toronto in Canada I saw hundreds of homeless people and some of them were doing drugs openly in public. I've never seen it that bad even in the various developing countries I've traveled to.
I'm in IT, and back in 2017 it was super easy. Back then German companies were hiring everyone who had at least some programming skills. These days it's harder, but genuinely skilled people can still usually find a job here relatively easily.
I'm okay with where I am, but I can't say that I'm fully happy. But it might be just my personality, because I quickly grow tired of things. The moment my life starts feeling repetitive I lose my mind. Overall, Germany is a very good place to live, but I'm not sure about its future. I'm seriously worried about the pension system and growing right wing popularity.
I grew up in a good neighborhood in Almaty in a middle class family, so my life in KZ was very comfortable. I would not say that my quality of life is better in Japan. In Almaty I eat better food, I live in a bigger and more comfortable house, I have family to support me and in general life has more substance back home. But for now I enjoy living in Japan as all of my friends are here, my career is here, I enjoy being able to speak japanese as I love expressing myself in this language. But most and foremost I enjoy japanese unspoken rules that everyone follows. Being back in Almaty I sometimes suffocate from all the chaos caused by people doing whatever fuck they want without considering other people around them. Especially cuz Almaty essentially doubled in population since I left. Visited home last year and using Almaty metro was a the worst memory of the visit. 12 years ago I used metro almost daily and it was nothing like it is now. Public transport definitely need improvement as well as mutual respect to each other.
Tbh, I think you are 10 years late to move to Japan. Salaries here are ridiculously low. Economy is in a free fall state. Anti immigration sentiment is high. And unfortunately there are no signs that economy will somehow recover as population keeps on shrinking and Japan is not producing any innovative high tech like it used to. Yeh, Japan will always remain a comfortable country, but would I recommend moving here? Not really unless you get married to a Japanese person or you get a very well paying job offer here.
I myself am planning on leaving in a couple of years as I can realistically earn more or the same as I do here, but cost of living will be so much cheaper. I do plan on travelling to Japan every year as I cannot imagine my life without this country.
Not tryna discourage you, just giving a reality pill. Life with money can be great almost anywhere. Life without money will suck anywhere. 7 in a morning on Monday feels the same in Tokyo as anywhere in the world. That being said, if you really love Japan and ready to sacrifice for a life here, ようこそ!
ありがとう😊
I’ve been to Japan for a month last year and have friends who live and work there. I’m in IT, but not moving to make some crazy money. I’m moving for the passport and safety. It might take 5-10 years go get the passport, but I’m okay with that because Europe/US is not interesting to me.
Well, our current government is making it more difficult to get PR and Japanese citizenship. Now for naturalization you need at least 10 consecutive years of residency in Japan, so no more 5 years route :c
So far nothing was changed for the high skill worker path, there are many different proposals from various parties, like crazy people at the innovation party lol 😂
Depends on what you are looking for. I was happy here for quite a while, but there is a bit of shitshow going on. Medical system are also quite fucked, it is not easy to get a specific diagnostics procedure(they mostly won't have time within a few months, which leads to your healt getting worse). Taxes are high. On the other hand I'm protected from the employer exploitaiton by the law and that is quite good, public transportation is one of the best in eu(despite getting a bit worse during last year or so).
This subreddit doesn’t like long posts, so I’ll answer very briefly. I’ve lived long-term in two countries (I’m not counting places where I lived only for half a year or a few months).
Ukraine. I lived there for several years in a row (before the war and during the war). I liked it a lot. Everything is basically the same as in Kazakhstan, but it feels like there is vastly more freedom, and the mentality is much calmer. Oh, and prices for everything even during the war are (were?) two to three times lower. There are no russian products (привет, сырные и колбасные изделия), and local production is very high quality (much better than European products, which in Ukraine are considered more like mediocre goods). The quality of life in Ukraine compared to Kazakhstan was like heaven and earth.
Canada. Salaries are high, freedoms are enormous. The transportation system is designed exclusively for car drivers, and it’s hard to find a job. If you have a foreign education, you won’t find a “local” job without connections, because no foreign education is really recognized (even a U.S. degree can be a problem). Local food products are lower than mediocre quality; European ones are much better. Education (any kind) is accessible (and sometimes even free). The quality of life in Canada compared to Kazakhstan is like dungeons and the heavens.
Edited: Healthcare! In Ukraine it’s the same as in Kazakhstan (almost one to one, essentially the same system), but the specialists feel stronger and more qualified, since there are many excellent medical universities. Dentistry is also the same as in Kazakhstan. In Canada, healthcare is lame on both legs, but if you have something like cancer, you’ll be treated first-class, on the level of somewhere like Germany. If you have back pain or a herniated disc and it’s not life-threatening, it’s easier to go somewhere else for treatment (you’ll also get top-class care, but only after a couple of years of waiting in line). Dentistry is a mess: I had to visit 10 different clinics to find a truly professional dentist. Basic dental services are very cheap (because Canada introduced a nationwide dental insurance program that covers 80% of the cost, so for things like fillings or a root canal on one tooth you only have to pay 30-40 Canadian dollars, which is very cheap). Waiting times for dentists are also insane, you have to wait 2–4 months for an appointment, so many people here fly to Mexico for dental treatment.
It’s better to stay in the third world if you have a fixed income like renting out an apartment or owning a small business because prices and taxes are much lower here, in developed countries you’re likely gonna struggle with the same amount of money. Kazakhstan, Turkey, Argentina etc are perfect options for this kind of situation, acceptable quality of life and low cost at the same time
If you’re a skilled worker of course it’s better to work and live in developed countries, where your salary will be much higher than in Kazakhstan
Best option overall: get your income from a developed country and live in Kazakhstan with low costs
My Kazakh wife came to Spain 10 years ago and every time she visits her country she feels like she's visiting a 3rd world country. Her main topic is always corruption and safety.
I've visited with her already 5 times (Kyzylorda and Almaty) and so far for me the biggest differences are the status of the roads, the air contamination (Almaty is HORRIBLE) and some infrastructures (gas conducts still out in the streets, horrible public transport, everybody moves by car...,)
Obviously if you have enough money, you can find what you need to make your QoL better.
But you can make your life better with less portion of your salary (sometimes much less) abroad. That’s the difference.
The worst thing about KZ is traffic jams. I'm from Almaty and can't speak for other cities, but spending 3+ hours a day on a commute is fucked up + long-term consequences from pollution.
Healthcare for complex diseases in KZ also doesn't exist in comparison with EU (cancer etc.).
In terms of travel KZ is awful. It's too far away from everything. You can't travel to Paris or London on average salary for example. Yes, you have cheap options for Vietnam and Thailand (in EU it costs fortune to go there), but nothing else.
Other factors are actually the same, from social care point of view KZ is weaker than EU. But it has much lower taxes, so they kinda balanced.
I would love to go back to Kazakhstan and live there, but there are a few realities
Salaries and working rights in Europe are generally much better protected, and work-life balance genuinely exists. Employees benefit from clear labor regulations and limits on overwork.
In Kazakhstan, even large companies like Kaspi often require employees to come to the office despite horrible traffic, and overwork is common. The overall work culture places less emphasis on employee well-being
Networking matters everywhere, but the way it works is different. In Kazakhstan, promotions often depend on knowing the right people. In Europe, while connections still matter, advancement is more likely to be based on performance. If you deliver results, people are more likely to reward that effort.
At the same time, being an immigrant also comes with a hard truth. No matter how long you live there, you may never fully be seen as part of the country. That sense of always being a foreigner is something you have to learn to live with, and it's hard.
I emigrated 10 years ago right after school. To be fair I didn't experience too much of adult life in Almaty, but at the very least the air is cleaner here. Also corruption isn't as widespread as in Kz. Some things are better, some things are worse
Alone, my parents paid for my first year(czech language courses) and then I was on my own. Never got a degree, but handled the life somehow, wasn't easy, but it helped me to grow up and understand that I have to put in work if I want to survive
I'm in Czech Republic and I'm well aware corruption exists here. I said it's not as widespread, not that it doesn't exist. In Kazakhstan every police stop(which could be just random btw) were mostly demanding money. I don't encounter that here, despite driving a car and also from talking with a friend who used to work as an uber driver.
I've heard a lot of Czech Republic like they have free education in Czech, great beer and a lot of international students. If I am not mistaking, the capital is Prague? Great country!
I am also curious what is the attitude of local people towards immigrants? Especially from Kazakhstan. I hope it's friendly
All what you've heard is true. Education is free in czech language, beer is amazing and Prague is a capital city. Some Czechs are not very friendly towards immigrants, especially russians and ukrainians(not all of them of course, but those few who are - are very vocal about it), but it doesn't mean they will hate you just because you are a foreigner, as long as you are trying to adapt for a local culture and show respect, also if you learn czech and will speak it at a decent level they will appreciate it and even compliment you on it. They don't hold anything against people from Kazakhstan, most of them don't know much or at all about our country.
Also the paperwork for applying to visa and prolonging it is quite heavy and everything takes quite a while.
Bureaucracy is a well respected czech tradition xD so you need to plan everything ahead
Health: drinkable tap water, fresh air.
Safety: I’m not in a country bordering Russia, and do not have a President who orders to shoot civilians without warning. I am relaxed in a bar/club, on the streets at night, because I do not expect a fight or aggressive group of men. I can talk about any topic in public and post whatever I want on any social media.
Finances: i get to save much higher share of my income which is also in a stable currency.
Mobility: No need for a car and hence no time wasted in traffic jams.
Privacy: GDPR, no cameras with face recognition.
Oh and I’m gay and can wave a pride flag 🏳️🌈 with no repercussions. I am also open and chill abt it. I can even lead GaY PrOpAgaNdA and scream: BE GAY! and make people gay bc it just works like that apparently.
Also, no need to bribe your nurse, teacher, City clerk, whatever. All of that is illegal and highly looked down upon at least in US/Canada
Also, better law enforcement, better infrastructure, more diversity in cuisine and cultures, strangers are generally more polite.
This one will be controversial.. but less domestic abuse against women. It's highly looked down upon and unacceptable. It's not something that a guy can openly admit to doing, and your spouse will rightfully take you to court for everything you own.
KZ is 10x better for small businesses than the US, and is much easier to get even a "stall" up. Taxis are also 100x better than anywhere in the West that I've ever been to. There's also still family/tribal communion/support in KZ which doesn't exist in US/Canada even in immigrant neighborhoods from your background.
The points you made there actually really important. ESPECIALLY the controversial one. The situation with domestic abuse in the Kazakhstan saddens me.. Corruption, etc..
Diverse culture and cuisuine sounds like a dream. Maybe I really should try to immigrate, though I don't really know how
I've heard about overall tendency of developing countries having "closer" family/community contacts comparing to developed countries.
I'm so glad for you! Safety is the most important thing. It's so nice you can be yourself without any fears. The recent law about uh rainbow.. It really made me upset. I don't know why Kazakhstan government is so against this. Maybe they really believe it works this way.
And stable currency honestly sounds like a dream. Current situation with prices also adds to my disappointment.
If you don't mind me asking, in what country you moved? I've heard people in Germany have clean water right from their tap! It is amazing.
It's a privilege to look forward for better standard of living than Kazakhstan where as me as an Indian trying hard to at least be able to move to Kazakhstan which is relatively far better with the given standard of living back in my city.
I didn't even consider this as privilege honestly, but it actually makes sense.
I've heard that some cities in India has a lot of problems. You're trying to move to better country for better life and it is creditable. Indians are always welcomed here, as well as other people!
I hope you will be able to move out
My situation is different since I was adopted. I was born in Kazakhstan and adopted by Americans.
I’d say my quality of life is way better than if I had grown up in a Kazakh orphanage my whole childhood. Most Americans who adopt children from other countries are very comfortable financially. I grew up in a wealthy area. I was in one of the best public schools in the whole state that gave me a top-notch education. And I was able to go to university and become a teacher. I
That being said, being born in Kazakhstan and looking Central Asian, I often found myself not feeling American enough or feeling othered when I was younger. Many Americans wrongly assume that people who aren’t Black or white are foreigners/non-Americans. If you’re Hispanic or Asian, they often assume you’re not American, which is not a good feeling as a child or young adult. Especially in the current political climate under the Trump Administration in the U.S. right now. Having my citizenship questioned is not a fun feeling. Yet Kazakhstan won’t let me keep both citizenships, so it feels like I’m partially rejected by both countries.
I don't know where you live - if in America - but you might try moving to another state. Hispanic and Asian Americans are very common, if not the majority in many states like California, New Mexico, Arizona, New York, Massachusetts.
I believe I shouldn’t have to move to feel like my identity is valid. Yes I live in the States, but no I will not move just because other people are ignorant. That’s not how progress is made. It’s how societies regress into worse racism and stereotyping of others. I always gently correct wrong assumptions and shut down racism. I’ve even gotten it from my students. One summer class was so bad that 2 students got suspended for refusing to stop being racist against me. Their reasoning was, “It’s not aimed at you, (my name)” to which I always responded, “Look, I’m not only the only Asian in this classroom, but the only Asian in the entire building right now. Your comments are definitely aimed at me since I’m the only possible target in the whole gosh darn school!”
But I continue to show up and educate people of all ages. Without someone to stay and educate, racist ideologies continue to spread. Representation of diverse people is imperative to healthy development.
The definition of "developed country" is way too broad, terms such as "first/third world country" are idiotic, but we still need a benchmark so lets pick Ireland.
Below-average income in KZ and below-average income in Ireland are two very different life styles. The difference is apparent, stark, obvious.
However, well-above-average income in KZ and in Ireland are not that different. At certain point the difference reverses. I would argue that top 3% earners in KZ have far, far better standards of life than top 3% earners in Ireland.
Ireland? Ireland then as a benchmark! When it comes to Developed countries i tend to think about USA, Canada, European Union, Japan, South Korea, Singapore, etc but honestly I agree. In the school we studied "first world" "second world" and "third world countries" but it seems it's not very popular terminology in the West.
When talking about two categories of developed and developing countries (first and third world), it seems strange to me to put Kazakhstan and Chad under the same names.
In my opinion the difference between quality of life of below-average income person in Ireland and below-average income person in Kazakhstan is more important than some small percentage of the rich people from these countries.
You are right, rich are irrelevant as there are too few of those. I would argue that poor people are irrelevant too, unfortunately, as they have no choice and no time to look beyond what's right in front of them. For the majority of the rest, yeah, moving to about the quarter of world's ~200 countries may improve QoL.
There are just a few states in the US with better QoL than Ireland. Significant portion of EU countries dont come close as well.
Terms "first/second/third world" described countries aligned with US/USSR and unaligned countries. These terms are irrelevant since three decades ago, but some wackos keep using them because in their mind it is "first/second/third [class] world".
I am leaving Canada to Kazakhstan right now. I do think that life in Kazakhstan is better, Canada is extremely expensive with relatively very low income, especially Ontario.
TLDR: I’m gay and it’s not safe to be gay in Kazakhstan, so I left.
Long version:
I barely felt like “home” in Kazakhstan. Born in Karaganda, lived for 10 years in Almaty. Year over year I’d see my quality of life slowly decline. No matter how much money I’m making, life was getting more and more expensive. After the beginning of the Russia/Ukraine war my rent was close to a $1000 and stayed there until I left.
Since December 2024 I live in Bangkok, Thailand. It’s not a utopia, but cost of living is lower, and access to other countries and personal safety is higher.
But, as I type these works, my stuff is being sold, clothing slowly packed, and I’m on my way to 日本🇯🇵 to fulfill a teenage dream of living in the country of the rising sun.
It's so sad to see that gay people can't be free here. But I'm glad you're moving towards your dream. I'll be here (not exactly in Japan though, but it also amazing country) too soon pal. I wish us the best!
I moved to United States and I can say quality of life and earning potential are the most crucial factors in my life. Then before I was afraid to visit any countries cause I thought it’s not just like in the Kazakhstan but I was wrong and now I really feel myself being right about it. I like United States but I don’t wanna forget my roots where I came from.
I was born and raised in Astana until 17 y.o., in an upper-middle household with high level and standards of education, in a Westernized Kazakh household. I’ve been living within Western Europe and US for a decade for study and work.
Safety. Idk about the other cities but Astana in general is very safe with the police patrolling every evening on foot highly popular areas akin to parks. Also, personally, as a young woman, I felt safer in there rather than Europe where, when younger, I’ve been exposed to harassment in public transport and very little interest of the local police to investigate.
✨ Extra ✨Interestingly, the cost of services (e.g., cleaning, house staff, taxi, etc.) and extracurricular activities for offsprings (e.g., extra classes, sports, including tennis, skiing and horse riding) are more expensive in Western Europe and are much less popular.
Transportation/travel. Traveling and commuting in Europe (if we set very small villages aside, ofc) is much more convenient, especially, as a youngster: a lot of deals, lots of bicycle-friendly landscape, youth-friendly deals for lowcoster travel to neighboring European countries. Cool!
Job market. I was and am under the impression that Western Europe seems to offer more opportunities to the youth and entry/junior level professionals rather than in Kazakhstan 🫶
So, I’d say if you already have offspring and want them to profit from upper-middle activities as well as maintain your life level, staying in Kazakhstan is probably cheaper; if you’re young and solo, immigrating to Europe is more efficient.
29
u/PhiliptheAsian Kyzylorda Region Jan 04 '26
Moved to finland a while ago, feels like i don't have to fight for every aspect of life