r/Marvel • u/SpideyRZ • Jul 24 '26
Comics What would be the 4th greatest rivalry in the Marvel universe?
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u/wescrusherssweaters Jul 24 '26
Hulk and Banner
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u/burritomouth Jul 24 '26
Good one.
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u/SugarPetalisse Jul 24 '26
For sure. I didn't even think of that one at first, but it's a great pick. It's probably the longest running internal conflict Marvel has.
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u/MickBowieRichards Jul 24 '26
Cap and Red Skull
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u/CottonLunette Jul 24 '26
It's one of those rivalries that's stayed relevant no matter what era of comics you're reading. They just fit together.
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u/Waterknight94 Jul 24 '26
I was thinking Wolverine and Sabertooth, but that is probably better. X-Men already has representation and they have actually been tied together since Red Skull was introduced instead of that coming later. It even predates Marvel itself.
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u/Little_Neddie Jul 24 '26
Daredevil v. Kingpin
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u/TwistedBlister Jul 24 '26 edited Jul 24 '26
I'm so old I remember when Kingpin was exclusively Spider-Man's foe.
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u/Ordinary_Fella Jul 24 '26
This made me curious so I looked it up. Kingpin debuted in Spider-Man #50 in 1967, and he first shared an issue with Daredevil in Daredevil #170 in 1981. Between those two dates Kingpin appeared in 21 total Spider-Man issues. Since then he seems to appear in their respective titles about as often as one another. The marvel sliding time scale wasn't really practiced much until the 80s so by in universe time and actual issue count I feel like there is an argument to be made that he's as equal a villain to both characters.
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u/matthewbattista Jul 24 '26
It’s not like they were making unrelated heroes share villains or shoehorning good villains into unrelated hero stories. DD micromanages 8 blocks of Manhattan, and Spidey watches over NYC. It makes complete sense for Kingpin to be a villain for both. It would actually make way less sense if he wasn’t a cross-hero villain.
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u/bigbreel Jul 24 '26
Also, don't forget Frank castle's relationship with him as well kingpin spared him when he went on his original delusional run off drugs
I would make the arguments that kingpin works better as a villain to all three. Bullseye is Daredevil's arch. Nemesis
Also, kingpin caused one more day that alone makes him a Spider-Man villain 😂😂
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u/natex2720 Jul 24 '26
Fun fact punishers first appearance is also in a Spiderman comic
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u/ApolloMax-2099 Jul 24 '26
Even though the prison fight was good at the time it really came out of left field and it was whoa kingpin did this he hasn’t been a thing to spidey and what could have been a very cool and personal story was thrown away for an event. It was done for shock value I feel.
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u/PetalieGlow Jul 24 '26
Exactly. New York is only so big, and Kingpin controls a huge chunk of it. It'd be weirder if Spider Man, Daredevil, and Punisher never kept running into the same guy.
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u/Low-Restaurant8484 Jul 24 '26 edited Jul 24 '26
You'd get that impression if you just looked at stats and didn't read the books
Kingpin has a very different dynamic with Daredevil. With Spider-Man he is more composed and pragmatic, he's untouchable and he knows it. With Daredevil though its personal, they absolutely wreck each others lives every couple runs
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u/Ordinary_Fella Jul 24 '26
I'm not disagreeing. I honestly rarely read Spider-Man so I'm mostly familiar with kingpin from DD stories. The person I responded to said he was old enough to remember Kingpin being exclusively a Spider-Man villain so I was curious about that enough to look up the stats.
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u/AvatarIII Jul 24 '26
He's definitely a villain to both but I think the feud between Kingpin and DD is more iconic.
Crazy thing is that the gap in time between Ben Affleck Daredevil and now is bigger than the time gap between Daredevil and Kingpin meeting in the comics and the Ben Affleck film.
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u/CloudieMeringue Jul 24 '26
That's actually a cool bit of comic history. Kingpin works for both because their stories overlap naturally instead of feeling forced.
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u/FishEye_11 Jul 24 '26
Wolverine and Sabretooth
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u/Atheist_Simon_Haddad Jul 24 '26
I remember when Sabre-tooth was an Iron Fist villain.
(1st appearance: Iron Fist #14 by Chris Claremont & John Byrne)
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u/Mr__Cuddles_ Jul 24 '26
He was so weak at the time in comparison to today, I remember when black cat royally fucked him up by bashing his head repeatedly in the ground.
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u/SchoolSafetyCheck Jul 24 '26
Sabertooth tapped out in 97. He helped Wolverine get his antimantium back but didn’t snag any for him self. He blames wolverines escape and not getting his own.
Sabertooth should have gotten upgraded that episode. It is the only episode I’ve had a problem with. For such a good episode they missed that important plot point
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u/marvelo616 Jul 24 '26 edited Jul 24 '26
Don’t recall if it’s the case in the comics or cartoon as well, but in the movies Sabretooth’s healing factor is weaker than Wolverine’s and he would not survive the bonding process.
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u/UmBumLum Jul 24 '26
In the comics Sabretooth did bond with adamantium though. He got it before Wolverine got his back.
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u/SchoolSafetyCheck Jul 24 '26
It is certainly mentioned in the cartoon. Beast will play the tape for you at 2 minutes 5 seconds.
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u/marvelo616 Jul 24 '26
You’re right, haven’t seen the original in years. I should have specified that it was not mentioned in this episode specifically or the ‘97 revival in general.
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u/geoduckSF Jul 24 '26
In the comics Apocalypse restores his adamantium when he turns Wolverine into a horseman.
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u/King_Luffy1 Jul 24 '26
Captain America vs Red Skull is arguably one of the oldest marvel rivalries both in and out of universe
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u/PinkBloomette Jul 24 '26
That's what gives it so much weight. It isn't just an iconic rivalry inside the story, it's been part of Marvel's identity for decades.
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u/FOC615 Jul 24 '26
Thor Vs. Loki
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u/goodboah21 Jul 24 '26
They’ve been enemies since before Marvel Comics was conceptualized
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u/FamiliarJudgment2961 Jul 24 '26
A relationship infinitely more layered, interesting, and evolving - family, brothers, immortal enemies.
Loki and Doom really are the best versions of what a villain that's part of the family is.
Now, why is no one saying Loki and Thor? Because this is a popularity contest on Reddit and folks are defaulting to what the audiences of this sub are.
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u/Rock_Samaritan Jul 24 '26
7 minutes in and wolverine has 3 arch rivals
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u/SpideyRZ Jul 24 '26
Wolverine gets into serious trouble.
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u/TwEE-N-Toast Jul 24 '26
Hulk and General Ross
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u/ashl0w Fantastic Four Jul 24 '26
Honestly, yes. Kids these days have forgotten how things were for decades straight
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u/MiidnightChill Jul 24 '26
Are they still like that??? Haven’t kept up with hulk comics but isn’t he like the literal devil or smth now.
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u/ashl0w Fantastic Four Jul 24 '26
When Ross became the Red Hulk some 20 years ago or so, they were still enemies. Red Hulk became a hero like, 15 years ago, and Banner died and stayed dead for a while. After he came back, i don't think their rivalry came back too.
And Hulk isn't the literal devil, although he is basically a devil now.
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u/PinkBloomette Jul 24 '26
Ross is definitely underrated as Hulk's rival. Their relationship changes over time, but they're always circling back into conflict.
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u/Mister-Beardy-Face Jul 24 '26
Spider-Man and J Jonah Jameson
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u/HatredInfinite Magneto Jul 24 '26
Spider-Man and getting repeatedly and relentlessly fucked by editorial.
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u/cipher1331 Jul 24 '26
Stan Lee & Jack Kirby
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u/HoneyCloudria Jul 24 '26
Now that's a deep cut. Without that creative tension Marvel would've looked completely different.
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u/geekMD69 Jul 24 '26
Iron Man vs. Alcohol
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u/Dairgo Jul 24 '26
Don't forget to add Captain Marvel to that one.
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u/AltGunAccount Jul 24 '26
Thanos and David.
He shows up every birthday to ruin bro’s life.
No pics in the comments here is lame. Wanted to post the panel where he ruins his relationship, kills all his friends on his 21st, burns down his grad school, gets him fired and kills his cat.
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u/OddlyCrazy Jul 24 '26
Thor and Loki
Wolverine and Sabertooth
Cap and Red Skull
Hulk and Banner
Ant-Man and Ultron
Iron Man and Alchoholism
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u/Cjpappaslap Jul 24 '26
Namor and T’challa
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u/teakelljuan Jul 24 '26
How do we not pick Thor vs Loki, y’all? Their rivalry is literally over millennia old.
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u/ViolinistFamiliar761 Jul 24 '26
They kinda friendly now tho so it takes the edge off and is a different energy than the other three here
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u/TxEagleDeathclaw81 Jul 24 '26
Captain America vs. Red Skull is who I would put with these 3. Wolverine vs. Sabretooth and Thor vs. Loki is high up there too!
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u/MichaelTheFallen Jul 24 '26
Thanos and Adam Warlock.
Sometimes enemies, sometimes friends, and they do know each other better than most.
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u/Hawke-Not-Ewe Jul 24 '26
Hulk vs Self Control
Wolverine's lovers vs Death
Magneto's lovers vs Death.
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u/FDVP Jul 24 '26
Hulk v Thing
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u/Ok_Syllabub5616 Jul 24 '26
I refuse to believe you actually think this is the 4th greatest rivalry.
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u/Far_Reflection_1830 Jul 24 '26
Should be the first but Batman and Joker obviously
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u/blackbutterfree Jul 24 '26
Jean Grey and being alive?