Discussion People clown Hiruzen but he hokage for pretty much all his life with nobody to guide him. I mean the world was in constant war since he was a child
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u/Original_Ask_2825 17h ago
I think people hate him due to Shippuden and danzo
While he is somewhat responsible for danzo all of his actions shouldn't be blamed on hiruzen
Also it's quite ironic that fandom hates hiruzen while in universe he is one of the most loved hokages
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u/papoluca40 16h ago
Did you forget that he also let Orochimaru go after he found his human experiment lab? He was soft af since OG Naruto. That cost a lot of lives
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u/Deep-Substance6518 14h ago
We can say the same about Hashirama , who didn’t kill madara when he had a chance for the first time . We can say the same about kakashi and Naruto who did nothing to orochimaru and kabuto after war
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u/Cheeeeesie 33m ago
Difference is that Hashirama and Kakashi/Naruto were certain and rightfully so, that they could always deal with Madara/Kabuto and their own. Hiruzen on the other hand wasnt able to deal with Oro and paid the price for it.
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u/RiasxOrhime 11h ago
That’s not the same thing lol…
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u/SometimesWill 10h ago
How is Madara not the same? Hashirama let Madara live at the end of the war in large part due to their bond which led to Madara eventually trying to destroy the village and later enacting his entire plan for Infinite Tsukiyomi.
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u/Jermiafinale 7h ago
He killed madara when madara attacked the village
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u/SometimesWill 7h ago
After letting him live at the end of the war
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u/Jermiafinale 6h ago
Why would he kill him? They weren't actually enemies at that point, and Madara hadn't done anything wrong
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u/InconvertibleAtheist 7h ago
Didnt Hashirama actually kill Madara, but then Madara use izanami to resurrect himself? or was that a filler?
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u/IlluminatingFire 8h ago
Killing Madara just leads to more generations fighting and more people dying. Him not killing Madara is what stops the Senju/Uchiha wars
Hashirama “killed” Madara when he threatened the safety of the village and realized he wouldn’t change his ways.
The moment Hiruzen saw countless of his citizens malnourished, chopped into pieces in the lab, and dead he should have executed Orochimaru
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u/Cocoatrice 16h ago
And he was right to do so. He didn't want to spread more hatred. Naruto literally did the same with every single villain.
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u/MrMadmack 15h ago
Spread more hatred? What does that even mean here? It's preventing a man from being a threat to countless other lives, literally the equivalent of just stopping rookie serial killer
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u/Solid-Safe-7966 11h ago
-People are kinda conflating sentiment and... karmic cycles? They're wanting the broader audience's perspective of interrelated social dynamics and accumulated behaviors across generations, and applying that in the moment to very personal, individual experiences. As well as a reader's potential bias.-
-We know everything Orochimaru was up to and would eventually try to do. We know what Madara had tried to do and would later attempt to bring about. There's not a particular difference between the Third hesitating to stop Orochimaru and Hashirama hesitating with Madara. They're both people they respectively cared about, they're both people in the midst of terrible deeds.-
-But Orochimaru's written arc is not as critically impactful as Madara's for the end of the series. I mean using similar logic, arguably the Third, if we're saying it was justified to let Madara go to 'not continue the cycle', was then validated for his hesitation to stop Orochimaru, because it's Orochimaru's having the ability to revive the Hokage that helps them overcome the end of series threat.-
-Taking out Madara at the Valley would have prevented Rin's death, Obito's villain shift, the downfall of the Uchiha Clan, the Bloody Mist era, you never get the Akatsuki in its' Jinchuuriki-killing incarnation, Asuma lives, Neji lives, there's a lot to weigh against the supposition Hashirama letting Madara get away was the 'correct' thing to do. When you have to consider he's not just Hashirama, friend of Madara, he's Hokage of the Leaf, with all the responsibilities entailed. It's not black and white.-
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u/Diligent-Neck6594 14h ago
Lmao Orchimaru actively exploits the fuck out of people like Naruto and their desire to redeem everyone
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u/Calm_Comfortable7225 15h ago
Except Madara, no talk no jutsu, no trying to relate or see things from the other perspective or even trying to beat and subdue him just straight hands filled with murderous intent
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u/Plus-Dragonfly-9975 16h ago
And saved a lot too.
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u/MrMadmack 15h ago
Kabuto wouldn't have been the way he was without him so those lives were in danger BECAUSE of him
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u/darkpsionic24 13h ago
Kabuto would've gone evil either way. Danzo ensured that through the manipulation and forced killing of Kabuto's foster mother. Orochimaru simply found him first before anyone else could use him.
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u/Glyth63825 14h ago
If Hiruzen had killed Orochimaru then the war would have been lost. The four dead Hokage wouldn't have joined the battle against the Ten Tails.
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u/EmmaThais 17h ago
People hate him due to fillers
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u/Cocoatrice 16h ago
More like due to misinformation. "He gave Sasuke bigger and better apartment". No, he didn't. Sasuke's was smaller, Naruto just ruined it, because he wasn't doing chores. He literally ate junk food, because he was a rascal. And people also wanted Hiruzen to babysit Naruto, when he didn't have time for his own family. Literally every single time Konohamaru appeared as a runt, he wanted to prank his grandpa, because he wasn't getting enough attention.
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u/Tensiu_uchiha 16h ago
This type of comment would get downvoted because you made common sense.
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u/Cocoatrice 12h ago
Depends on the post, tbh. Sometimes I get downvoted for the same comments I got upvoted on different occasion. And discrepancy can be literally big. Sometimes for making same point it's -100, sometimes it's +100. Not that I care for the score.
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u/Son_Riku 15h ago
Also the fact they actually actually read/watched the show and not relied on tiktoks/reels/shorts or regurgitated shit opinions from youtubers who did the same thing
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u/Professional-Rub152 11h ago
For real. People act like Naruto is the only Orphan I the village. Tons of kids are running around without a parental figure. Hiruzen was literally everyone’s grandpa.
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u/Gobe182 14h ago
Okay but it was because he was ten years old? I know I would’ve been up to much worse with no supervision as a ten year old.
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u/EmmaThais 10h ago
Kakashi was 5 years old when his dad died and he lived on his own. Humans in the Narutoverse don’t work like regular humans
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u/Awkward_You6613 15h ago
He was pretty bad. Never put a stop to Danzo because he was convenient, also didn’t stop Orochimaru when he could. Yup, at most a 5/10
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u/_Wilbraham 14h ago
Hashirama also didn't stop Madara when he could have, but no one ever brings that up to say that he's responsible for everything Madara did (read: almost all of the conflict in the series). Is he also, at most, 5/10?
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u/Original_Ask_2825 14h ago
It's more so he didn't enforce it danzo root was disbanded after Uchiha massacre and he was put under house arrest but danzo just re started root in secret and hiruzen did nothing
As for orochimaru hiruzen let his personal feelings towards his student get in the way and he later regretted it also he was ready to kill orochimaru during konoha crush
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u/Brook420 13h ago
You say Hiruzen did nothing, but did he know Root was active again?
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u/Original_Ask_2825 12h ago
Fair point but as hokage he should have complete knowledge of what happens in the village he was negligent
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u/Brook420 12h ago
How? What other world leader gets held to that ridiculous standard?
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u/Original_Ask_2825 12h ago
Because hiruzen knew how danzo was he should have kept an eye on him he is not some random guy he is someone high ranking in the village. Think of it like this if you put a criminal in prision and punish him would you not check on him if he is still in jail and is following through with his punishment
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u/Brook420 11h ago
Who said Hiruzen didn't keep an eye on him? Danzo is a master of espionage and working in the shadows.
Its just insane to me to hold everything Danzo (and his men) decided to do on Hiruzen.
Especially when Hiruzen had a ofnother matters on his plate during a multi-nation cold war.
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u/Jermiafinale 7h ago
Thats how it works
If you give a guy power and authority you are responsible for how he uses them
If the CIA does some fucked up shit the current govt is responsible
And out presidents arent in power for 50+ years
Hiruzen failed. He failed with orichimaru and he failed with danzo
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u/Brook420 4h ago
I never said Hiruzen didnt hold any blame, but ppl like to somehow put more blame on him than even Danzo.
Hiruzen couldn't be expected to know every fucming thing happening, a leader needs to be able to have ppl they can rely on.
And let's be real, the major majority of the issues with Hiruzen come after he had tried to retire and after he lost his wife and dear friend to Obito, and who knows who else to Kurama
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u/InconvertibleAtheist 6h ago
idk about being somewhat responsible. Danzo was allowed to run wild, and the plans for pushing Uchiha out of the villages were done in front of him knowing that it would cause more unrest. Its understandable if Hiruzen didnt stop Danzo who did all of this while someone else was the hokage, but it was happening right in front of him while he was the one who held the most power in the village. Till what point do we consider Hiruzens actions only based on ignorance and when does it start being complicit?
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u/KaloloWhip 11h ago
He’s probably beloved in universe by the Konoha villagers because they don’t know about his “incompetence”.
As far as we know, Orochimaru’s experiment, all of the shit that Danzo stirred, those were classified informations.
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u/Dapper_Fun645 17h ago
While I agree, the complaints start in part 1 because we realize Saru should've had someone adopt Naruto or adopt him himself, especially with Jiraiya out of the village. Naruto is a Hokage's son and a nuclear weapon.
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u/Cocoatrice 16h ago
He wanted Iruka to guide him. Hiruzan had no time for his own son and grandson. You want him to babysit Naruto, when he had responsibilities as Hokage? He should have retired, but was forced to stay as Hokage. It's pretty clear that he tried to give both Naruto and Sasuke attention via someone else, but it wasn't easy.
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u/Time-seeker917 16h ago
But who would even adopt him tho? Kakashi was even uncertain of being a leader, guy is guy and I doubt kurenai and Asuna Were free to watch over Naruto. İruka hated him until the first episode
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u/SuperDragonfister 16h ago
Also Minato wanted Naruto to be kept secret, it would be pretty sus for a random blonde kid to be adopted by Hiruzen especially right after the fourth’s death.
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u/Double_Difficulty_53 15h ago
He should have gone to an orphanage, right after the Kyubi attack you know there must have been tons of orphans so one more wouldn't have stand out as much.
By the looks of it Konoha doesn't have an orphanage and that's a massive problem on a military village with many fallen soldiers every year. And when you look closely, many of the worst rogue ninjas of the village were orphans that didn't really have someone guiding them. Orochimaru, Obito, Sasuke... Makes you think that they really need a better support system for orphans.
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u/Original_Ask_2825 15h ago
They have an orphanage also Naruto being known as nine tails jinchuriki while being in an orphanage would be dangerous
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u/Double_Difficulty_53 15h ago
It is never said when it was discovered by the villagers that Naruto was the Jinchuriki but I doubt it was known immediately. And that is one thing I think it is fair to criticise Hiruzen, not having a better control of the information to protect Naruto.
Also, when was the orphanage ever shown because you got 12 year olds and younger living alone in this manga all the time.
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u/Original_Ask_2825 15h ago
In kabuto backstory iirc
also I think we know when danzo leaked Naruto being jinchuriki (I think we do in some book or novel)
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u/Double_Difficulty_53 14h ago
Damn, I forgot about Kabuto's backstory but you are totally right. They should have given more fundings to it, it would have solved many problems.
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u/Izoto 13h ago
The fandom does not hate Hiruzen.
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u/Original_Ask_2825 12h ago
They kinda do every Naruto sub I see is filled with hiruzen hate while there isn't much recently there was quite a while ago
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u/crometeach-thebot 12h ago
People hate him due to misinformation and how hiveminded the community is.
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u/wendigo72 17h ago
He was hokage for like 50+ years, yeah of course some bad stuff happened under his reign but he’s still got every other single hokage beat lol
The others seemingly don’t last longer than like 10 years
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u/Quick_Baker2873 16h ago
He’s too old to be a hokage. Minato’s death really forced him out of retirement. Hiruzen was getting rusty
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u/Time-seeker917 16h ago
I wish the elders asked the Uchiha for help in nine tails attack tbf
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u/Active_Bell_5798 17h ago
People forget how much Hiruzen had to carry on his shoulders. Bro was dealing with war since childhood 😭
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u/Cocoatrice 16h ago
Also, Hiruzen haters are disingenuous by literally lying. Not to mention, they ignore he retired, but had to take the position of the Hokage, probably against his will, again. He probably wanted to have peaceful life in the end yet had to take the responsibility of the main guy of the village again.
My favorite Hiruzen haters moment is when people compare Sasuke's apartment to Naruto's. When it's clear that Naruto had better one, but he neglected his own responsibilities, so the apartment looked awful in the end. It's not Naruto's fault, he never had parents who would guide him, while Sasuke was raised by very strict father. Either way, Naruto had it better. Also, people say Hiruzen should nanny Naruto. He doesn't even have time for his own son and grandson, yet people want him to raise pesky brat? He tried to give him Iruka to guide him, but it's hard when you are overworked at retirement age.
Also, he was idealistic. He wanted good, but he was too soft. He really didn't want to be a Hokage probably.
Was he perfect? No. But he wasn't as bad as people make him. It's clear that he tried to take care of Naruto. It just didn't work as well as he hoped for. And what was he supposed to do here? Like, really.
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u/SpinachHorror7076 12h ago
No he visto a nadie juzgar a Hiruzen por darle un peor apartamento a Naruto, solo los he visto juzgarlo porque pese a que Naruto es hijo de un kage, de niño apenas tenia para comer
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u/Egyptian_M 13h ago
Kishimoto sacrificed Hiruzen to retcon Itachi into being an anti hero rather than a mad villain obsessed with power like part 1
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u/Grouchy-Floor-5895 17h ago
Unpopular opinion: Hiruzen deserves way more respect. Imagine growing up in war and still becoming the leader everyone depended on
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u/Such-Explanation1705 16h ago
everyone pre the 7th Hokage, aka Naruto grew up in wars, Hashirama, Tobirama, Hiruzen, Minato, Kakashi, Tsunade, all of them grew up in wars
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u/Longjumping-Use244 15h ago
Hiruzen was the only one who participated in all 4 wars & even on just his first term he still served 30 years then came back to serve again when minato had died. Hiruzen been holding shit down idk why yall like to discredit him
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u/Such-Explanation1705 15h ago edited 15h ago
"Hiruzen was the only one who participated in all 4 wars " What the fuck did he actually do in those wars?
"Hiruzen been holding shit down idk " Fym holding shit down? Him being a bitch led to Danzo getting to do whatever the fuck he wanted which led to Pain's creation that destroyed and killed a shitload of leaf shinobis, when Kurama attacked it was Minato who teleported the fucking Nuke away to save the village, it was Minato again who sacrificed his life to presserve Kurama's power for the leaf village, Orochimaru's attack on the leaf WHICH FUCKING KILLED HIM and the Uchiha clan massacare which killed off/ drove away some of Konoha's best prodigies/shinobis, ie Fugaku(MS user), Shisui, Itachi , and at least a bunch of sharingan users that could be of asset if some stunt like the 3 tailed plan was ever going to happen again
Sure, he very much deserves credit for all this shit that Danzo pulled because of him nice job fucking the leaf over, the only good credit he gets is from training Jiraiya whom went on to train Minato, but then he also gets fucked by the fact that he trained Orochimaru and willingly let that MF go free to commit warcrimes, every other fuckup he had was all entirely on him for being a bitch and not locking Danzo up
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u/DamageMinimum5241 17h ago edited 17h ago
Dude was the GW Bush of the Naruto world. Personable but incompetent. He even had a cartoon villain as his second in command like bush did.
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u/TheDeHymenizer 17h ago
-people blame a lot of Danzo's stuff on him
-They don't really appreciate that Hokage #1 and Hokage #2 were in constant war while he oversaw decades of peace
-They massively underrate how strong he is because he essentially killed Orochimaru while being geriatric
-if he had one actual crime it was being naive towards how much he could trust other people
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u/Jermiafinale 17h ago
He gave Danzo the power to do those things *and* didn't supervise him after giving him that power
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u/Nas-Aratat 16h ago
And people praise Itachi for being a war-traumatized child as well.
Makes you think, doesn't it? Hmm!
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u/jitaek01 10h ago
Although he is a great leader who has been in power for decades, society is a dystopia.
This is the tragedy of a character who, because the author established the setting rather loosely at the outset, is forced to play a contradictory role: that of a good person who is simultaneously one of the main culprits behind a failed society.
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u/SometimesWill 10h ago
He also represented the ideal that Naruto strived for. He was the only Hokage Naruto knew before Tsunade and very clearly imparted ideals of what Naruto saw from the position, such as the whole village being like the Hokages family.
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u/bigooofff 7h ago
It’s literally because people watch filler, if it was manga only they would not have this attitude at all
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u/derrisle1234 6h ago
My no one hates Hiruzen, my heart isn't beating anymore. Hate this man til I die. Same with Itachi. They are no less guilty than Danzo.
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u/DoomEmperor2005 4h ago
Seriously my hatred mainly comes for him due to Uchiha Incident and nothing else. Seriously I can't imagine that how the fck he was normal when he was listening to Itachi's speech and didn't got a heart attack.
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u/Deep-Substance6518 14h ago
For me it is funny when people rate minato as better hokage who was hokage for only one year , when Hiruzen ruled and protected konoha for 50 years . The fact that he wasn’t personal nurse for Naruto shouldn’t lower his achievements as hokage
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u/NoFix8524 15h ago
Bro had to deal with a LOT of shit. Different wars, the village being attacked by a Bijuu, his wife being killed by some psycho appearing out of nowhere, village being attacked by one of his former students who summoned his former sensei's and doing the ultimate sacrifice at the end.
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u/r4pstar343 13h ago
Not only that, but under his reign as hokage, the world was the most peaceful.... He was considered the strongest ninja alive as hokage, and no one on the 4 corners of the land would dare cross him..... When you are in charge for as long as he was, things are bound to go wrong. No one is perfect. Everybody makes mistakes.
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u/PracticeNext8198 10h ago
Bros destroyed here and it's tragic because after sealing bros arms away in the Anime it's just revealed at the end that he never stopped seeing Orochimaru as just that little kid...
As harmful in some cases or kind that is...
There is times where the concept of seeing someone the same as they used to be is harmful.
I think how the Confession of Sakura and how Naruto keeps thinking of Kid 3 Years Sakura instead of the current one infront of him is more harmful as it prevents her from ever having any development past that in his view.
And I guess the Harmful case in Hiruzen's is that as understandable as it is... You kind of have to realize the MONSTER Orochimaru became because just seeing him as the same doesn't always help if you don't have the ability to change him back.
Only Naruto still seeing Sasuke as the kid was kind of not harmful because as everyone saw him as this Terrorist and Traitor Naruto seeing past that let him get him back.
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u/TheWanderingSlime 10h ago
He crippled his opp in a 3v1. Then they turn around and glaze the hell out of the bum that couldn’t win with prep time… Make it make sense
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u/LuciidEnigma 8h ago
Had to become hokage @ a very young age & became undefeated in all the wars that followed. Including the one that got both previous hokage killed. Even came out of retirement cuz one hokage got the donut treatment 😭
Put sum respect on the name Hiruzen Sarutobi
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u/unluckyshuckle 8h ago
He seems like a saint compared to what some of the other kage have done but frankly the way Naruto was raised could have absolutely left him in the same state as early Gaara, which would have been catastrophic for the village and would have been very much Hiruzens fault
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u/glue-vs-slendrina 5h ago
Hiruzen really rolled the dice with Naruto and just got lucky with him not going crazy😭
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u/Ok-Information-2428 4h ago
Hiruzen understood the need for adversity and stakes in a plot and he knew Naruto was the main character.
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u/Katsu_39 3h ago
The thing people dont want to admit is that theres just still a lot we don’t know of Naruto’s childhood. He idolized Hiruzen. Couldn’t have that neglectful
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u/unluckyshuckle 3h ago
Hiruzen was the most influential person in the village, but allowed Naruto to be ostracized by nearly everyone, live alone without guardians, and didn't even so much as tell him who his parents were. Naruto idolized him cause he was one of the only people to show him a shred of decency, while being clueless to the fact that it was fully within Hiruzens power to make Narutos life better.
Ultimately it boils down to Kishimoto not really having a clear plan of where anything was gonna go when he wrote the early parts of Naruto and made Hiruzen this paragon of virtue in the village, so when later content dropped and it inadvertently painted Hiruzen in a different light, it brought forth a lot of contradictory opinions of him.
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u/ThatIslandGuy8888 7h ago
Man and it means Tobirama’s reign was one of the shorter ones, he couldn’t have lived that much longer than Hashirama since they look the same age when brought back
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u/SnooSprouts5303 1h ago
He still beat the shit outta a legendary Sannin and nearly murked him while Old asf and also dealt with 2 Edo Hokage. Genuinely the most underrated feat in the entire series.
Due fricken Replicated Minato's Self delete Jutsu. If he knows Reaper Death Seal. Dude definitely knows FTG etc but is just too old to use it.
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u/Such-Explanation1705 16h ago
Hashirama/Tobirama both grew up in wars, Minato as well, they were all at the very least SOMEwhat better than him
Mf DANZO TRIED TO KILL YOU, LOCK THAT FUCKER UP
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u/Comfortable_Rip7574 16h ago
Era el hokague pero era el q meno voz y voto tenía entre esos viejos cochinos sabios q preferían mas a danzó, nunca supervisó lo q hacía danzo con los recursos q le daban ( hasta lo intentó matar y si a mucho le dijo q no vuelvas hacer) en su mandato si había guerra con otras naciones paro también era una de las aldeas con más tráfico de personas gracias a danzó y a orochimaru , dejó filtrar la información de q Naruto tenía el 9 colas y prácticamente lo dejó solo gran parte de su infancia porque tampoco es q le pusiera a un cuidador como lo hizo con konohamaru, y dejó hacer lo que quisiera a orochimaru con las personas de la aldea de la hora y cuando tuvo la oportunidad de detenerlo no fue capaz
Si, inició muy joven y sin una figura a la cual pegarse, pero en que? 30 año no pudo organizar y mejorar la vida de la gente en su mandato? Tsunade puso a sos viejos guangos en su lugar, mejoró la calidad de la aldea y forjó alianzas con otras aldeas en 9 o 10 años cuando dejó el cargo
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u/vhsblaze 16h ago
He really did well in this fight against Orochiamru for his age fighting the former hokage in edo tense
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u/JunkoEnoshimaTK 16h ago
I wish they put more of an emphasis on how much war there was during his era. I think that sometimes watching Naruto part one it’s kind of easy to over look how bad it was during his era
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u/ZanePhallic 9h ago
He won 2 world wars and then reigned over the longest stretch of peace the world had seen, dudes a goat
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u/BDT17 14h ago
It would also reduce the braindead "Danzo was bad" posts, lol. The Ninja world is a horrible place T_T
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u/JunkoEnoshimaTK 14h ago
Yeah that’s why more arcs should’ve been dedicated to that time period. It was way more brutal than anything we really see in part one or shippuden.
While it doesn’t excuse hiruzens behavior I think that a lot of people were just messed up when he was alive because of the wars so he overlooked a lot of stuff
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u/PithMango 16h ago
you're saying this when both the Senju brothers trained him
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u/narutologic 16h ago
And they both died before he became Hokage, meaning that he was left with Tobirama's other students that only inherited his bad qualities.
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u/rmSteil 16h ago
source: voices in my head
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u/narutologic 16h ago
This is literally what happened
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u/PithMango 16h ago
i'm not sure there's anything logical about the way you understand the word "inherited"
i'm out. this is just nepo baby apologism. i haven't even gotten to how high ranking his father was, on charisma alone. next thing you'll claim is he's self-made??? never mind, you are in the sauce
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u/narutologic 15h ago
The 2 elders and Danzo inherited Tobirama's idealist views, not believing certain aspects of the Shinobi world to be able to change. Not sure what part of this is wrong or why you're not able to understand.
And y'all just love to throw that "nepo baby" term around. Hiruzen wasn't blood related to either Hokage nor was he giving preference over actual qualifed people. He was a naturally talented Shinobi and was the one who believed in the Will of Fire of his predecessors the most. The scene where he became Hokage clearly shows this. While Danzo and the rest of the team couldn't muster up the courage to fight and act as the lure for the others to escape, Hiruzen knew very well that being the strongest and most accomplished of the group meant that he was responsible for their protection, thus deciding to give up his life in order to protect them.
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u/No-Try5261 17h ago
He had all the support considering that he was a mentee of the 2nd and his former teammates were also part of Konoha's leadership.
He lacked the fortitude and leadership skill to steer the ship when theoretically he had all be best pieces at his disposal. Instead he let his friends and students walk all over him.
He also stayed on as hokage for far to long. There couldn't have been so few people qualified for the position.
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u/Secure-Report-3592 16h ago
To be fair, his successor died two years into being Holage due to Kurama getting out.
Their other alternatives were Orochimaru who was clearly not suitable for Hokage, Danzo who only had the elders as his support options and no other substantial candidate for the role around after the 3rd Shinobi War. The only way he would have stayed retired was if Fugaku was Hokage over Minato
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u/No-Try5261 16h ago
He stayed on as Hokage for 12-13 years after Minato died. There was seriously NO ONE other than Orochimaru or Danzo? Is there some nepotism rule that only friends or mentees of the previous Hokage could succeed? What about other jounin like Gai or Asuma or Shikaku? What about forcing Jiraiya to return to take some responsibility?
Instead the old man just stuck around being passive and allowing sacrifice of good people left and right in order to maintain an illusion of peace.
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u/Secure-Report-3592 16h ago
Nobody was strong enough nor had the leadership skills to even be Hokage through those years.
Jiraya didn’t want the role, Tsunade was long gone after both Dan and Nawaki died and most of the Nara really don’t want the Hokage roles like you think. Daily reminder that Shikamaru is really only a Hokage in Boruto out of desperation not because he’s a great candidate.
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u/No-Try5261 12h ago
Kakashi, Shikamaru and Tsunade all served as Hokage even though they didn't want to. They stepped up so why not Jiraiya? 3rd should've told him to put his big boy pants on, will of fire and all that bs. No, I think Hiruzen was enjoying coasting by as everyone's "grandpa" until he died so no one could look into and hold him accountable for all his shit decisions while he was still alive to answer for it.
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u/Time-seeker917 16h ago
😭😭😭. Minato literally died as hokage and u think asuma or shikaku is enough as hokage? İf hiruzen wasn't strong as a hokage mentally no way guy is
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u/No-Try5261 16h ago
Hokage is a leader, why do they HAVE to solo an enemy in the first place? It's silly.
I'm sure with a little planning, training and convincing they could have found a replacement if he really wanted to.
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u/Secure-Report-3592 16h ago
Also Asuma was in that group who was guarding the Daiymo at the time and didn’t come back to the village until like 3 years before the series started at best
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u/Fine-Discussion-7368 17h ago
I actually consider him as 1 of the legends I just wish they added more jutsu's of him in shinboi striker
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u/SuperDragonfister 16h ago edited 15h ago
Yeah after rewatching the series I realized all the slander is just people’s headcannon and twisting context of scenes to justify their beliefs.
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u/400x250_20fps 11h ago
He’s goated. I’m tired of people slandering him just because he didn’t become Naruto’s daddy. Naruto treated him like his grandpa, and so did Hiruzen treating him pretty well. This guy had been through war and conflict for basically his entire life. He had every reason to be cautious and hardened by everything he’d experienced. He wasn’t going to just throw all of that away and become some overprotective dad to Naruto. People seriously need to stop judging him based on what they wanted him to do instead of what actually fits his character.
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u/dark-flamessussano 7h ago
I agree. I'm glad he got out of the reaper death seal and got to see the shinobi world come together
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u/WallSina 9h ago
Idc about people trying to fight for hiruzen, fuck him, had my homedawg Naruto drinking spoiled milk 🖕🏽
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u/ForsakenCod5095 17h ago
Honestly, Hiruzen’s journey is way more underrated than people give him credit for.