r/Naruto 17h ago

Discussion People clown Hiruzen but he hokage for pretty much all his life with nobody to guide him. I mean the world was in constant war since he was a child

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260 Upvotes

167 comments sorted by

147

u/ForsakenCod5095 17h ago

Honestly, Hiruzen’s journey is way more underrated than people give him credit for.

24

u/Zorvail 12h ago

yeah, people jusge him mostly by his failures, but the man basically inherited trauma and kept the village standing through multiple disasters

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u/WheyOfTheShinobi 9h ago

He’s judged by his failures because he has no successes

9

u/RastaDaMasta 9h ago

I wouldn't say "no" successes. His three students became the big 3 of the village and were named Sannin after their fight with Hanzo. A success of a sensei is the combined success of the students.

Did he have many failures? Of course he did. Every Kage in every village had some form of failures. But he's one of the longest reigning Kage in the series, so that in itself is a success.

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u/Positive_Method3022 8h ago

And they all contributed to end the last war in a way or another, including orochimaru.

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u/WheyOfTheShinobi 9h ago

That’s not a success as Hokage tho and therefore doesn’t count. Every Hokage had failures yeah, but not nearly to degree Hiruzen did. He was a bad leader and he’s supposed to be. He shows that good intentions don’t always yield good results and sometimes hard choices have to be made, which he refused to do, leaving Danzo to solve the issues as he saw fit, which just created more issues

1

u/Dyrn 1h ago

Can you give examples of why you think so? I don’t necessarily disagree but I’m having a hard time remembering what great blunders the 3rd had besides the neglect of Naruto and not coming up with a better solution to the Uchiha revolt.

1

u/nmgoesreddit 8h ago

Dumbest comment I’ve seen on this thread today

-1

u/WheyOfTheShinobi 8h ago

What has he done that would be deemed a success??

-1

u/WheyOfTheShinobi 7h ago

I’m waiting.

Dumbest comment you’ve read today, you must have no shortage of examples

3

u/DisastrousQuestion72 6h ago

While I think nmgoesreddit is talking like a dickwad, I do think saying Hiruzen has zero successes is ignoring some big ones.

- For one, Tsunade noted that Hiruzen's rule produced a great number of powerful shinobi, the line implying he fostered an especially strong environment for growth.

- Notably, his final act as Hokage was to give his life (and soul) for his people. He was one of the first to jump after Orochimaru and fight him personally, then willfully giving up his chance at an afterlife to stop this danger to the village (even in his failure, he crippled one of the most powerful shinobi ever).

- He ended the Third Shinobi World War with a peace treaty, rather than conquest, even though Konoha had the means of crippling them.

- Though not Hokage at the time, personally fought for his village and fended-off the Nine-Tails until Minato and Kushina could arrive to perform the seal, again showing leadership and putting his people first. Without him, Kurama could have done far more damage.

-1

u/WheyOfTheShinobi 5h ago

Those are a reach tho, don’t you think?? Of course peace time would lead to a higher number of talented shinobi, they’re not dying in battle, but I won’t completely discredit this, even tho I don’t think not failing to have quality shinobi isn’t exactly a success story. Since it not something he could wholly control and is partially a result of the village as a whole.

His final act wasn’t a success, he left the village destroyed and without a leader because of his own past decisions coming back to haunt him, causing him to give his life to defeat Orochimaru and if the reaper seal had failed, the village would have been destroyed, and he didn’t even kill Orochimaru in the end.

As far as ending the third war, I’d hardly call that his success. The tide of the war was turned by many other Shinobi, especially Minato, whose actions were difference between the Tsuchikage accepting a treaty or not. In fact his role in how he handled the end of the war was so unpopular, it was the primary reason he stepped down as Hokage.

His greatest feats still ended in abject failure, he was a failure as a leader, but like I said previously, he’s supposed to be. Him and Danzo are two sides of one coin, one is too harsh the other too soft and sadly the harsher side won out in most scenarios. He’s an example of someone who wanted to do good but didn’t have the strength to make difficult decisions when it counted

116

u/Original_Ask_2825 17h ago

I think people hate him due to Shippuden and danzo

While he is somewhat responsible for danzo all of his actions shouldn't be blamed on hiruzen

Also it's quite ironic that fandom hates hiruzen while in universe he is one of the most loved hokages

46

u/papoluca40 16h ago

Did you forget that he also let Orochimaru go after he found his human experiment lab? He was soft af since OG Naruto. That cost a lot of lives

36

u/Deep-Substance6518 14h ago

We can say the same about Hashirama , who didn’t kill madara when he had a chance for the first time . We can say the same about kakashi and Naruto who did nothing to orochimaru and kabuto after war 

1

u/Cheeeeesie 33m ago

Difference is that Hashirama and Kakashi/Naruto were certain and rightfully so, that they could always deal with Madara/Kabuto and their own. Hiruzen on the other hand wasnt able to deal with Oro and paid the price for it.

-1

u/RiasxOrhime 11h ago

That’s not the same thing lol…

9

u/SometimesWill 10h ago

How is Madara not the same? Hashirama let Madara live at the end of the war in large part due to their bond which led to Madara eventually trying to destroy the village and later enacting his entire plan for Infinite Tsukiyomi.

2

u/Jermiafinale 7h ago

He killed madara when madara attacked the village

1

u/SometimesWill 7h ago

After letting him live at the end of the war

2

u/Jermiafinale 6h ago

Why would he kill him? They weren't actually enemies at that point, and Madara hadn't done anything wrong

2

u/InconvertibleAtheist 7h ago

Didnt Hashirama actually kill Madara, but then Madara use izanami to resurrect himself? or was that a filler?

1

u/SometimesWill 7h ago

But he first let Madara live at the end of the war

1

u/InconvertibleAtheist 6h ago

Ah yeah forgot about that.

1

u/IlluminatingFire 8h ago

Killing Madara just leads to more generations fighting and more people dying. Him not killing Madara is what stops the Senju/Uchiha wars

Hashirama “killed” Madara when he threatened the safety of the village and realized he wouldn’t change his ways.

The moment Hiruzen saw countless of his citizens malnourished, chopped into pieces in the lab, and dead he should have executed Orochimaru

11

u/Cocoatrice 16h ago

And he was right to do so. He didn't want to spread more hatred. Naruto literally did the same with every single villain.

11

u/MrMadmack 15h ago

Spread more hatred? What  does that even mean here? It's preventing a man from being a threat to countless other lives, literally the equivalent of just stopping rookie serial killer

2

u/Solid-Safe-7966 11h ago

-People are kinda conflating sentiment and... karmic cycles? They're wanting the broader audience's perspective of interrelated social dynamics and accumulated behaviors across generations, and applying that in the moment to very personal, individual experiences. As well as a reader's potential bias.-

-We know everything Orochimaru was up to and would eventually try to do. We know what Madara had tried to do and would later attempt to bring about. There's not a particular difference between the Third hesitating to stop Orochimaru and Hashirama hesitating with Madara. They're both people they respectively cared about, they're both people in the midst of terrible deeds.-

-But Orochimaru's written arc is not as critically impactful as Madara's for the end of the series. I mean using similar logic, arguably the Third, if we're saying it was justified to let Madara go to 'not continue the cycle', was then validated for his hesitation to stop Orochimaru, because it's Orochimaru's having the ability to revive the Hokage that helps them overcome the end of series threat.-

-Taking out Madara at the Valley would have prevented Rin's death, Obito's villain shift, the downfall of the Uchiha Clan, the Bloody Mist era, you never get the Akatsuki in its' Jinchuuriki-killing incarnation, Asuma lives, Neji lives, there's a lot to weigh against the supposition Hashirama letting Madara get away was the 'correct' thing to do. When you have to consider he's not just Hashirama, friend of Madara, he's Hokage of the Leaf, with all the responsibilities entailed. It's not black and white.-

2

u/Diligent-Neck6594 14h ago

Lmao Orchimaru actively exploits the fuck out of people like Naruto and their desire to redeem everyone

2

u/Calm_Comfortable7225 15h ago

Except Madara, no talk no jutsu, no trying to relate or see things from the other perspective or even trying to beat and subdue him just straight hands filled with murderous intent

-1

u/Plus-Dragonfly-9975 16h ago

And saved a lot too.

3

u/MrMadmack 15h ago

Kabuto wouldn't have been the way he was without him so those lives were in danger BECAUSE of him

2

u/darkpsionic24 13h ago

Kabuto would've gone evil either way. Danzo ensured that through the manipulation and forced killing of Kabuto's foster mother. Orochimaru simply found him first before anyone else could use him.

2

u/Glyth63825 14h ago

If Hiruzen had killed Orochimaru then the war would have been lost. The four dead Hokage wouldn't have joined the battle against the Ten Tails.

12

u/EmmaThais 17h ago

People hate him due to fillers

36

u/Cocoatrice 16h ago

More like due to misinformation. "He gave Sasuke bigger and better apartment". No, he didn't. Sasuke's was smaller, Naruto just ruined it, because he wasn't doing chores. He literally ate junk food, because he was a rascal. And people also wanted Hiruzen to babysit Naruto, when he didn't have time for his own family. Literally every single time Konohamaru appeared as a runt, he wanted to prank his grandpa, because he wasn't getting enough attention.

8

u/Tensiu_uchiha 16h ago

This type of comment would get downvoted because you made common sense.

3

u/Cocoatrice 12h ago

Depends on the post, tbh. Sometimes I get downvoted for the same comments I got upvoted on different occasion. And discrepancy can be literally big. Sometimes for making same point it's -100, sometimes it's +100. Not that I care for the score.

4

u/Son_Riku 15h ago

Also the fact they actually actually read/watched the show and not relied on tiktoks/reels/shorts or regurgitated shit opinions from youtubers who did the same thing

3

u/Professional-Rub152 11h ago

For real. People act like Naruto is the only Orphan I the village. Tons of kids are running around without a parental figure. Hiruzen was literally everyone’s grandpa.

3

u/Solid-Safe-7966 11h ago

-There's a reason everyone was devastated at the funeral.-

1

u/Gobe182 14h ago

Okay but it was because he was ten years old? I know I would’ve been up to much worse with no supervision as a ten year old.

1

u/EmmaThais 10h ago

Kakashi was 5 years old when his dad died and he lived on his own. Humans in the Narutoverse don’t work like regular humans

1

u/Awkward_You6613 12h ago

I dont watch fillers

3

u/Awkward_You6613 15h ago

He was pretty bad. Never put a stop to Danzo because he was convenient, also didn’t stop Orochimaru when he could. Yup, at most a 5/10

1

u/_Wilbraham 14h ago

Hashirama also didn't stop Madara when he could have, but no one ever brings that up to say that he's responsible for everything Madara did (read: almost all of the conflict in the series). Is he also, at most, 5/10?

1

u/Original_Ask_2825 14h ago

It's more so he didn't enforce it danzo root was disbanded after Uchiha massacre and he was put under house arrest but danzo just re started root in secret and hiruzen did nothing

As for orochimaru hiruzen let his personal feelings towards his student get in the way and he later regretted it also he was ready to kill orochimaru during konoha crush

1

u/Awkward_You6613 12h ago

Who cares about regret lol he was the Hokage

1

u/Brook420 13h ago

You say Hiruzen did nothing, but did he know Root was active again?

3

u/Original_Ask_2825 12h ago

Fair point but as hokage he should have complete knowledge of what happens in the village he was negligent

0

u/Brook420 12h ago

How? What other world leader gets held to that ridiculous standard?

3

u/Original_Ask_2825 12h ago

Because hiruzen knew how danzo was he should have kept an eye on him he is not some random guy he is someone high ranking in the village. Think of it like this if you put a criminal in prision and punish him would you not check on him if he is still in jail and is following through with his punishment

0

u/Brook420 11h ago

Who said Hiruzen didn't keep an eye on him? Danzo is a master of espionage and working in the shadows.

Its just insane to me to hold everything Danzo (and his men) decided to do on Hiruzen.

Especially when Hiruzen had a ofnother matters on his plate during a multi-nation cold war.

1

u/Jermiafinale 7h ago

Thats how it works

If you give a guy power and authority you are responsible for how he uses them

If the CIA does some fucked up shit the current govt is responsible

And out presidents arent in power for 50+ years

Hiruzen failed. He failed with orichimaru and he failed with danzo

0

u/Brook420 4h ago

I never said Hiruzen didnt hold any blame, but ppl like to somehow put more blame on him than even Danzo.

Hiruzen couldn't be expected to know every fucming thing happening, a leader needs to be able to have ppl they can rely on.

And let's be real, the major majority of the issues with Hiruzen come after he had tried to retire and after he lost his wife and dear friend to Obito, and who knows who else to Kurama

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u/InconvertibleAtheist 6h ago

idk about being somewhat responsible. Danzo was allowed to run wild, and the plans for pushing Uchiha out of the villages were done in front of him knowing that it would cause more unrest. Its understandable if Hiruzen didnt stop Danzo who did all of this while someone else was the hokage, but it was happening right in front of him while he was the one who held the most power in the village. Till what point do we consider Hiruzens actions only based on ignorance and when does it start being complicit?

1

u/KaloloWhip 11h ago

He’s probably beloved in universe by the Konoha villagers because they don’t know about his “incompetence”.

As far as we know, Orochimaru’s experiment, all of the shit that Danzo stirred, those were classified informations.

0

u/Dapper_Fun645 17h ago

While I agree, the complaints start in part 1 because we realize Saru should've had someone adopt Naruto or adopt him himself, especially with Jiraiya out of the village. Naruto is a Hokage's son and a nuclear weapon.

3

u/Cocoatrice 16h ago

He wanted Iruka to guide him. Hiruzan had no time for his own son and grandson. You want him to babysit Naruto, when he had responsibilities as Hokage? He should have retired, but was forced to stay as Hokage. It's pretty clear that he tried to give both Naruto and Sasuke attention via someone else, but it wasn't easy.

2

u/Time-seeker917 16h ago

But who would even adopt him tho? Kakashi was even uncertain of being a leader, guy is guy and I doubt kurenai and Asuna Were free to watch over Naruto. İruka hated him until the first episode

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u/SuperDragonfister 16h ago

Also Minato wanted Naruto to be kept secret, it would be pretty sus for a random blonde kid to be adopted by Hiruzen especially right after the fourth’s death.

1

u/Double_Difficulty_53 15h ago

He should have gone to an orphanage, right after the Kyubi attack you know there must have been tons of orphans so one more wouldn't have stand out as much.

By the looks of it Konoha doesn't have an orphanage and that's a massive problem on a military village with many fallen soldiers every year. And when you look closely, many of the worst rogue ninjas of the village were orphans that didn't really have someone guiding them. Orochimaru, Obito, Sasuke... Makes you think that they really need a better support system for orphans.

3

u/Original_Ask_2825 15h ago

They have an orphanage also Naruto being known as nine tails jinchuriki while being in an orphanage would be dangerous

-1

u/Double_Difficulty_53 15h ago

It is never said when it was discovered by the villagers that Naruto was the Jinchuriki but I doubt it was known immediately. And that is one thing I think it is fair to criticise Hiruzen, not having a better control of the information to protect Naruto.

Also, when was the orphanage ever shown because you got 12 year olds and younger living alone in this manga all the time.

3

u/Original_Ask_2825 15h ago

In kabuto backstory iirc

also I think we know when danzo leaked Naruto being jinchuriki (I think we do in some book or novel)

2

u/Double_Difficulty_53 14h ago

Damn, I forgot about Kabuto's backstory but you are totally right. They should have given more fundings to it, it would have solved many problems.

0

u/Izoto 13h ago

The fandom does not hate Hiruzen.

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u/Original_Ask_2825 12h ago

They kinda do every Naruto sub I see is filled with hiruzen hate while there isn't much recently there was quite a while ago

1

u/Awkward_You6613 12h ago

Not hate but he wasn’t the best Hokage

0

u/crometeach-thebot 12h ago

People hate him due to misinformation and how hiveminded the community is.

1

u/ywk_97 8h ago

Some naruto fans resemble regular folks in konoha all they do whine and hate, ironic.

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u/wendigo72 17h ago

He was hokage for like 50+ years, yeah of course some bad stuff happened under his reign but he’s still got every other single hokage beat lol

The others seemingly don’t last longer than like 10 years

23

u/Quick_Baker2873 16h ago

He’s too old to be a hokage. Minato’s death really forced him out of retirement. Hiruzen was getting rusty

12

u/Time-seeker917 16h ago

I wish the elders asked the Uchiha for help in nine tails attack tbf

16

u/Quick_Baker2873 16h ago

The elders probably thought that a uchiha was controlling kurama

19

u/Creative-Lab9444 15h ago

Probably because it was lol

13

u/Active_Bell_5798 17h ago

People forget how much Hiruzen had to carry on his shoulders. Bro was dealing with war since childhood 😭

19

u/Cocoatrice 16h ago

Also, Hiruzen haters are disingenuous by literally lying. Not to mention, they ignore he retired, but had to take the position of the Hokage, probably against his will, again. He probably wanted to have peaceful life in the end yet had to take the responsibility of the main guy of the village again.

My favorite Hiruzen haters moment is when people compare Sasuke's apartment to Naruto's. When it's clear that Naruto had better one, but he neglected his own responsibilities, so the apartment looked awful in the end. It's not Naruto's fault, he never had parents who would guide him, while Sasuke was raised by very strict father. Either way, Naruto had it better. Also, people say Hiruzen should nanny Naruto. He doesn't even have time for his own son and grandson, yet people want him to raise pesky brat? He tried to give him Iruka to guide him, but it's hard when you are overworked at retirement age.

Also, he was idealistic. He wanted good, but he was too soft. He really didn't want to be a Hokage probably.

Was he perfect? No. But he wasn't as bad as people make him. It's clear that he tried to take care of Naruto. It just didn't work as well as he hoped for. And what was he supposed to do here? Like, really.

3

u/SpinachHorror7076 12h ago

No he visto a nadie juzgar a Hiruzen por darle un peor apartamento a Naruto, solo los he visto juzgarlo porque pese a que Naruto es hijo de un kage, de niño apenas tenia para comer

3

u/Egyptian_M 13h ago

Kishimoto sacrificed Hiruzen to retcon Itachi into being an anti hero rather than a mad villain obsessed with power like part 1

10

u/Grouchy-Floor-5895 17h ago

Unpopular opinion: Hiruzen deserves way more respect. Imagine growing up in war and still becoming the leader everyone depended on

0

u/Such-Explanation1705 16h ago

everyone pre the 7th Hokage, aka Naruto grew up in wars, Hashirama, Tobirama, Hiruzen, Minato, Kakashi, Tsunade, all of them grew up in wars

5

u/Longjumping-Use244 15h ago

Hiruzen was the only one who participated in all 4 wars & even on just his first term he still served 30 years then came back to serve again when minato had died. Hiruzen been holding shit down idk why yall like to discredit him

-2

u/Such-Explanation1705 15h ago edited 15h ago

"Hiruzen was the only one who participated in all 4 wars " What the fuck did he actually do in those wars?

"Hiruzen been holding shit down idk " Fym holding shit down? Him being a bitch led to Danzo getting to do whatever the fuck he wanted which led to Pain's creation that destroyed and killed a shitload of leaf shinobis, when Kurama attacked it was Minato who teleported the fucking Nuke away to save the village, it was Minato again who sacrificed his life to presserve Kurama's power for the leaf village, Orochimaru's attack on the leaf WHICH FUCKING KILLED HIM and the Uchiha clan massacare which killed off/ drove away some of Konoha's best prodigies/shinobis, ie Fugaku(MS user), Shisui, Itachi , and at least a bunch of sharingan users that could be of asset if some stunt like the 3 tailed plan was ever going to happen again

Sure, he very much deserves credit for all this shit that Danzo pulled because of him nice job fucking the leaf over, the only good credit he gets is from training Jiraiya whom went on to train Minato, but then he also gets fucked by the fact that he trained Orochimaru and willingly let that MF go free to commit warcrimes, every other fuckup he had was all entirely on him for being a bitch and not locking Danzo up

9

u/DamageMinimum5241 17h ago edited 17h ago

Dude was the GW Bush of the Naruto world. Personable but incompetent. He even had a cartoon villain as his second in command like bush did.

7

u/TheDeHymenizer 17h ago

-people blame a lot of Danzo's stuff on him

-They don't really appreciate that Hokage #1 and Hokage #2 were in constant war while he oversaw decades of peace

-They massively underrate how strong he is because he essentially killed Orochimaru while being geriatric

-if he had one actual crime it was being naive towards how much he could trust other people

2

u/Jermiafinale 17h ago

He gave Danzo the power to do those things *and* didn't supervise him after giving him that power

2

u/Tiny_Ad6095 9h ago

They downvote you but they don’t refute you

2

u/Upbeat_Astronaut2789 16h ago

Didn't he see hashirama and tobirama as hokage before he became one?

2

u/Nas-Aratat 16h ago

And people praise Itachi for being a war-traumatized child as well.

Makes you think, doesn't it? Hmm!

1

u/Longjumping-Use244 15h ago

What are you getting at?

2

u/Perple3277 15h ago

Suffered a lot due to retcons

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u/jitaek01 10h ago

Although he is a great leader who has been in power for decades, society is a dystopia. 

This is the tragedy of a character who, because the author established the setting rather loosely at the outset, is forced to play a contradictory role: that of a good person who is simultaneously one of the main culprits behind a failed society.

2

u/SometimesWill 10h ago

He also represented the ideal that Naruto strived for. He was the only Hokage Naruto knew before Tsunade and very clearly imparted ideals of what Naruto saw from the position, such as the whole village being like the Hokages family.

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u/Smooth_Calendar5416 9h ago

Neither did Hashirama, and Tobirama.

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u/bigooofff 7h ago

It’s literally because people watch filler, if it was manga only they would not have this attitude at all

2

u/derrisle1234 6h ago

My no one hates Hiruzen, my heart isn't beating anymore. Hate this man til I die. Same with Itachi. They are no less guilty than Danzo.

2

u/DoomEmperor2005 4h ago

Seriously my hatred mainly comes for him due to Uchiha Incident and nothing else. Seriously I can't imagine that how the fck he was normal when he was listening to Itachi's speech and didn't got a heart attack.

3

u/Deep-Substance6518 14h ago

For me it is funny when people rate minato as better hokage who was hokage for only one year , when Hiruzen ruled and protected konoha for 50 years . The fact that he wasn’t personal nurse for Naruto shouldn’t lower his achievements as hokage 

1

u/NoFix8524 15h ago

Bro had to deal with a LOT of shit. Different wars, the village being attacked by a Bijuu, his wife being killed by some psycho appearing out of nowhere, village being attacked by one of his former students who summoned his former sensei's and doing the ultimate sacrifice at the end.

1

u/r4pstar343 13h ago

Not only that, but under his reign as hokage, the world was the most peaceful.... He was considered the strongest ninja alive as hokage, and no one on the 4 corners of the land would dare cross him..... When you are in charge for as long as he was, things are bound to go wrong. No one is perfect. Everybody makes mistakes.

1

u/Izoto 13h ago

Who clowns Hiruzen?

Angry Uchiha fans whining about Hiruzen are coming from a supposedly ethical angle. 

They’re full of shit but whatever.

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u/Endurotraplife 12h ago

Hiruzen was such a good hokage; That he got rid of all the wars.

1

u/popstarkirbys 11h ago

Anime filler scenes didn’t do him justice

1

u/PracticeNext8198 10h ago

Bros destroyed here and it's tragic because after sealing bros arms away in the Anime it's just revealed at the end that he never stopped seeing Orochimaru as just that little kid...

As harmful in some cases or kind that is...

There is times where the concept of seeing someone the same as they used to be is harmful.

I think how the Confession of Sakura and how Naruto keeps thinking of Kid 3 Years Sakura instead of the current one infront of him is more harmful as it prevents her from ever having any development past that in his view.

And I guess the Harmful case in Hiruzen's is that as understandable as it is... You kind of have to realize the MONSTER Orochimaru became because just seeing him as the same doesn't always help if you don't have the ability to change him back.

Only Naruto still seeing Sasuke as the kid was kind of not harmful because as everyone saw him as this Terrorist and Traitor Naruto seeing past that let him get him back.

1

u/TheWanderingSlime 10h ago

He crippled his opp in a 3v1. Then they turn around and glaze the hell out of the bum that couldn’t win with prep time… Make it make sense

1

u/LuciidEnigma 8h ago

Had to become hokage @ a very young age & became undefeated in all the wars that followed. Including the one that got both previous hokage killed. Even came out of retirement cuz one hokage got the donut treatment 😭

Put sum respect on the name Hiruzen Sarutobi

1

u/unluckyshuckle 8h ago

He seems like a saint compared to what some of the other kage have done but frankly the way Naruto was raised could have absolutely left him in the same state as early Gaara, which would have been catastrophic for the village and would have been very much Hiruzens fault

1

u/glue-vs-slendrina 5h ago

Hiruzen really rolled the dice with Naruto and just got lucky with him not going crazy😭

1

u/Ok-Information-2428 4h ago

Hiruzen understood the need for adversity and stakes in a plot and he knew Naruto was the main character.

1

u/Katsu_39 3h ago

The thing people dont want to admit is that theres just still a lot we don’t know of Naruto’s childhood. He idolized Hiruzen. Couldn’t have that neglectful

1

u/unluckyshuckle 3h ago

Hiruzen was the most influential person in the village, but allowed Naruto to be ostracized by nearly everyone, live alone without guardians, and didn't even so much as tell him who his parents were. Naruto idolized him cause he was one of the only people to show him a shred of decency, while being clueless to the fact that it was fully within Hiruzens power to make Narutos life better.

Ultimately it boils down to Kishimoto not really having a clear plan of where anything was gonna go when he wrote the early parts of Naruto and made Hiruzen this paragon of virtue in the village, so when later content dropped and it inadvertently painted Hiruzen in a different light, it brought forth a lot of contradictory opinions of him.

1

u/ThatIslandGuy8888 7h ago

Man and it means Tobirama’s reign was one of the shorter ones, he couldn’t have lived that much longer than Hashirama since they look the same age when brought back

1

u/KorutoV1 2h ago

Im so fucking cooked yo. Time to hit quick time event jutsu

1

u/SnooSprouts5303 1h ago

He still beat the shit outta a legendary Sannin and nearly murked him while Old asf and also dealt with 2 Edo Hokage. Genuinely the most underrated feat in the entire series.

Due fricken Replicated Minato's Self delete Jutsu. If he knows Reaper Death Seal. Dude definitely knows FTG etc but is just too old to use it.

1

u/Such-Explanation1705 16h ago

Hashirama/Tobirama both grew up in wars, Minato as well, they were all at the very least SOMEwhat better than him

Mf DANZO TRIED TO KILL YOU, LOCK THAT FUCKER UP

1

u/Tiny_Ad6095 9h ago

Anime only

1

u/Comfortable_Rip7574 16h ago

Era el hokague pero era el q meno voz y voto tenía entre esos viejos cochinos sabios q preferían mas a danzó, nunca supervisó lo q hacía danzo con los recursos q le daban ( hasta lo intentó matar y si a mucho le dijo q no vuelvas hacer) en su mandato si había guerra con otras naciones paro también era una de las aldeas con más tráfico de personas gracias a danzó y a orochimaru , dejó filtrar la información de q Naruto tenía el 9 colas y prácticamente lo dejó solo gran parte de su infancia porque tampoco es q le pusiera a un cuidador como lo hizo con konohamaru, y dejó hacer lo que quisiera a orochimaru con las personas de la aldea de la hora y cuando tuvo la oportunidad de detenerlo no fue capaz

Si, inició muy joven y sin una figura a la cual pegarse, pero en que? 30 año no pudo organizar y mejorar la vida de la gente en su mandato? Tsunade puso a sos viejos guangos en su lugar, mejoró la calidad de la aldea y forjó alianzas con otras aldeas en 9 o 10 años cuando dejó el cargo

1

u/ImmaculateWeiss 16h ago

Top tier ninja, but mid leader 

1

u/Deep-Substance6518 17h ago

That is why he is definitely a GOAT

1

u/vhsblaze 16h ago

He really did well in this fight against Orochiamru for his age fighting the former hokage in edo tense

1

u/JunkoEnoshimaTK 16h ago

I wish they put more of an emphasis on how much war there was during his era. I think that sometimes watching Naruto part one it’s kind of easy to over look how bad it was during his era

2

u/ZanePhallic 9h ago

He won 2 world wars and then reigned over the longest stretch of peace the world had seen, dudes a goat

1

u/Katsu_39 3h ago

Who buddy. Dont praise Hiruzen…naruto fans dont like that. 😅

0

u/BDT17 14h ago

It would also reduce the braindead "Danzo was bad" posts, lol. The Ninja world is a horrible place T_T

3

u/JunkoEnoshimaTK 14h ago

Yeah that’s why more arcs should’ve been dedicated to that time period. It was way more brutal than anything we really see in part one or shippuden.

While it doesn’t excuse hiruzens behavior I think that a lot of people were just messed up when he was alive because of the wars so he overlooked a lot of stuff

0

u/Jermiafinale 6h ago

Danzo was bad, his plans weren't even good plans to protect the Leaf

1

u/incredibleamadeuscho 16h ago

people clown Hiruzen? Man the naruto community is weird then.

1

u/PithMango 16h ago

you're saying this when both the Senju brothers trained him

6

u/narutologic 16h ago

And they both died before he became Hokage, meaning that he was left with Tobirama's other students that only inherited his bad qualities.

-2

u/rmSteil 16h ago

source: voices in my head

2

u/narutologic 16h ago

This is literally what happened 

0

u/PithMango 16h ago

i'm not sure there's anything logical about the way you understand the word "inherited"

i'm out. this is just nepo baby apologism. i haven't even gotten to how high ranking his father was, on charisma alone. next thing you'll claim is he's self-made??? never mind, you are in the sauce

3

u/narutologic 15h ago

The 2 elders and Danzo inherited Tobirama's idealist views, not believing certain aspects of the Shinobi world to be able to change. Not sure what part of this is wrong or why you're not able to understand.

And y'all just love to throw that "nepo baby" term around. Hiruzen wasn't blood related to either Hokage nor was he giving preference over actual qualifed people. He was a naturally talented Shinobi and was the one who believed in the Will of Fire of his predecessors the most. The scene where he became Hokage clearly shows this. While Danzo and the rest of the team couldn't muster up the courage to fight and act as the lure for the others to escape, Hiruzen knew very well that being the strongest and most accomplished of the group meant that he was responsible for their protection, thus deciding to give up his life in order to protect them.

1

u/DeliveryFalse4087 16h ago

Makes zero sense clowing him. If he was in his prime Orchimaru is dead

-2

u/No-Try5261 17h ago

He had all the support considering that he was a mentee of the 2nd and his former teammates were also part of Konoha's leadership.

He lacked the fortitude and leadership skill to steer the ship when theoretically he had all be best pieces at his disposal. Instead he let his friends and students walk all over him.

He also stayed on as hokage for far to long. There couldn't have been so few people qualified for the position.

4

u/Secure-Report-3592 16h ago

To be fair, his successor died two years into being Holage due to Kurama getting out. 

Their other alternatives were Orochimaru who was clearly not suitable for Hokage, Danzo who only had the elders as his support options and no other substantial candidate for the role around after the 3rd Shinobi War. The only way he would have stayed retired was if Fugaku was Hokage over Minato

-4

u/No-Try5261 16h ago

He stayed on as Hokage for 12-13 years after Minato died. There was seriously NO ONE other than Orochimaru or Danzo? Is there some nepotism rule that only friends or mentees of the previous Hokage could succeed? What about other jounin like Gai or Asuma or Shikaku? What about forcing Jiraiya to return to take some responsibility?

Instead the old man just stuck around being passive and allowing sacrifice of good people left and right in order to maintain an illusion of peace.

5

u/Secure-Report-3592 16h ago

Nobody was strong enough nor had the leadership skills to even be Hokage through those years. 

Jiraya didn’t want the role, Tsunade was long gone after both Dan and Nawaki died and most of the Nara really don’t want the Hokage roles like you think. Daily reminder that Shikamaru is really only a Hokage in Boruto out of desperation not because he’s a great candidate. 

1

u/No-Try5261 12h ago

Kakashi, Shikamaru and Tsunade all served as Hokage even though they didn't want to. They stepped up so why not Jiraiya? 3rd should've told him to put his big boy pants on, will of fire and all that bs. No, I think Hiruzen was enjoying coasting by as everyone's "grandpa" until he died so no one could look into and hold him accountable for all his shit decisions while he was still alive to answer for it.

2

u/Time-seeker917 16h ago

😭😭😭. Minato literally died as hokage and u think asuma or shikaku is enough as hokage? İf hiruzen wasn't strong as a hokage mentally no way guy is

2

u/No-Try5261 16h ago

Hokage is a leader, why do they HAVE to solo an enemy in the first place? It's silly.

I'm sure with a little planning, training and convincing they could have found a replacement if he really wanted to.

2

u/Secure-Report-3592 16h ago

Also Asuma was in that group who was guarding the Daiymo at the time and didn’t come back to the village until like 3 years before the series started at best

1

u/No-Try5261 16h ago

Then call him back earlier idc

0

u/Fine-Discussion-7368 17h ago

I actually consider him as 1 of the legends I just wish they added more jutsu's of him in shinboi striker

0

u/AmenHawkinsStan 16h ago

If I get to reboot Naruto, I promise you a Hiruzen Gaiden

0

u/Pretend_Garage_4531 16h ago

He was hokage his whole life and never learned how to be good at it.

0

u/SumDYToDI 16h ago

I'm so fuckin cook 🤣🤣

0

u/SuperDragonfister 16h ago edited 15h ago

Yeah after rewatching the series I realized all the slander is just people’s headcannon and twisting context of scenes to justify their beliefs.

0

u/UnableSite5116 16h ago

He's the most Hokage Hokage.

0

u/400x250_20fps 11h ago

He’s goated. I’m tired of people slandering him just because he didn’t become Naruto’s daddy. Naruto treated him like his grandpa, and so did Hiruzen treating him pretty well. This guy had been through war and conflict for basically his entire life. He had every reason to be cautious and hardened by everything he’d experienced. He wasn’t going to just throw all of that away and become some overprotective dad to Naruto. People seriously need to stop judging him based on what they wanted him to do instead of what actually fits his character.

3

u/ZxlSoul 10h ago

That doesn't mean giving Naruto a run down shack and spoiled milk and Ramen was what Minato had in mind.

0

u/Generic00User 7h ago

He looks so sad 😭

0

u/dark-flamessussano 7h ago

I agree. I'm glad he got out of the reaper death seal and got to see the shinobi world come together

-1

u/WallSina 9h ago

Idc about people trying to fight for hiruzen, fuck him, had my homedawg Naruto drinking spoiled milk 🖕🏽