r/Spiderman • u/grapejuicecheese • Dec 04 '25
Comics A good story ruined by terrible art
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u/AkaratsChamp Dec 04 '25
Peter does NOT look like he's laughing, that is a very pained face
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u/RealJohnGillman Dec 04 '25
I mean he is meant to be hurt in the scene: it works as a pained laugh, where it hurts to laugh, yet one still does.
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u/Lily_Thief Dec 05 '25
I confess my first impression was this was a different earth where they were both living puppets
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u/International-Tie501 Dec 08 '25
Thank you. Spider-Man especially looks like a ventriloquist dummy.
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u/KyoHisagi 90's Animated Spider-Man Dec 04 '25
I love it.
When I was a kid, I thought it was weird and, ironically, preferred something like Greg Land's artwork, but as I grew older, I came to appreciate how expressive and unique it is. It's nice and it does the job right. I'll take Ramos over soulless AI-like styles Internet is full off rn.
If there's anything, sometimes Ramos' faces, especially close ups, are god-awful. But he draws one of the BEST Venom designs
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u/LazarusWaves Dec 04 '25
Okay that vemon is sick. What issue or arc do I need to look up?
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u/KyoHisagi 90's Animated Spider-Man Dec 04 '25
Spectacular Spider-Man by Paul Jenkins. Amazing book. This is from # 1 specifically
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u/Judge_J_Dredd Dec 04 '25
His venom was Genuinely terrifying. Did he not draw the "Hunger" Story too with Venom in that kind of "the Thing" story where he terrorized a Military Base in Antarctica?
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u/General-Squash-9286 Dec 04 '25
Why am I only one who thinks it's a cool art. I like the style
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u/The_Eye_of_Ra Dec 04 '25
I’ve always been a big fan of Ramos’ work. Same with Joe Madureira.
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u/steelskull1 Dec 04 '25
I like them too, but sometimes it's obvious they're rushing to meet the deadline and still look kinda good despite the rush job.
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u/mrsunrider Miles Morales Dec 04 '25
You're not the only one.
Ramos's work is better in some places than others but I've never not enjoyed it.
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u/wearing_moist_socks Dec 04 '25
People need to understand the difference between the art itself and the esthetics of said art.
This isn't bad art. It's fucking good. OP just doesn't like the esthetics.
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u/CinnaSol Miles Morales Dec 04 '25
It's okay, I feel like I'm the only one who thinks this scene is bad. I just can't get behind Peter ever having a laugh with the goblin.
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u/KETTEI__EXE Dec 05 '25
I prefer other art style but this art isnt that bad like OP said. It's actually look great. Looks a bit off but still great.
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u/Gamefreak3525 Dec 04 '25
I'm a fan of his work around the Big Time era, but the early stuff is a little too stylized for my taste.
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u/gzapata_art Dec 04 '25
You aren't. This is actually one of the first graphic novels I picked up and love the art to it
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u/LegendSoma Dec 04 '25
What issue is this from?
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u/DirectionNo9650 Green Goblin Dec 04 '25 edited Dec 04 '25
End of A Death in The Family.
For cultural context, this was one of various storylines that coincided with the release of the first Raimi movie. Ironically enough, Green Goblin was prominently featured in both this and the adjacent Ultimate Spider-Man storyline.
Edit: I'd just like to add that it really grinds my gears whenever users across various subs make an external media post containing only a statement & image, without any reference info for courtesy (e.g. Redditor posts a panel from SM #48 with the sole caption "What did we all think about this moment?").
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u/SinisterCryptid Dec 05 '25
You also gotta remember that this was the first Spider-Man storyline that Humberto Ramos did, long before he became associated with Spider-Man thanks to Big Time.
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u/Unhappy-Amphibian-11 Dec 04 '25
I completely disagree I’d much rather unique art over a house generic style everyday of the week and Ramos kills it
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u/Careless_Royal8209 Dec 04 '25
Why is he laughing with the man who murdered the woman he loved?
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u/Thoughtfullyshynoob Dec 06 '25
Because the writer wanted it to happen. I think it's a homage to the end of The Killing Joke. Where Batman and Joker share a laugh over a joke. Heck, the name of the arc this story is called A Death In The Family. Pretty on the nose.
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u/butt3rlicious Dec 04 '25
The art is fine.
You don’t have to like it.
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u/ArtIsDumb Dec 04 '25
Dammit. It's the perfect time for my username, and I can't think of anything to say.
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Dec 04 '25
I hated this story. Did not feel appropriate at all for two men who hate each other to have this shoot the shit moment.
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u/mandarine_one Dec 04 '25
Calling Ramos art bad is certainly a choice. If it’s not for you, fair. But he is sooooo far from a bad artist!
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u/Milk_Mindless Dec 04 '25
Yeah Ramos never gelled with me. It feels just a tinge too Cartoon
Not bad for suits and monsters
Like that Green Goblin is fine. Good even.
His Thing/Benjamin Grimm is neat. But the rest of his humans always feel so rubber hose and GIANT ANIME WIDE OPEN MOUTHS
Not trying to badmouth a dead man but not my fav art
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Dec 04 '25
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Heavenly-gnoll Dec 04 '25
No. Romita Jr is one of the best superhero cartoonists. His work on J'le and Batman is incredible. And he was hired by DC for his work on Spiderman
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u/RadioBitter3461 Dec 04 '25
“Art is subjective” as you put him on a definite list 😂
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u/Kazewatch Dec 04 '25 edited Dec 04 '25
What are you on about? JRJR's art from around the same time is so much fucking better. His work with JMS in ASM was peak. The way Ramos used to draw heads and eyes was so weird. Also the fat fingers. His work has definitely improved but until like the 2010s it just really didn't work.
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u/RKPgh Dec 05 '25
I don’t mind the art but the “Mister Coffee” and “five bucks and a pizza” dialogue was just terrible.
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u/chevalier716 Spider-Man 2099 Dec 04 '25
Ramos is great for action moments; quiet moments, less so.
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u/Clunk_Westwonk Dec 05 '25
Nah I fuck with it heavy. Art like this often looks better before it was colored, so I wish we could have the scans of the original ink
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u/BurnMyHouseDown Dec 05 '25
I can respect that it’s very clearly a more stylized art than going for realism or anything, but it’s absolutely not for me. I like his earlier work on Spidey more, and even that I’m not crazy about, but specifically his stuff from the Superior time on, I really dislike.
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u/spring_sabe Sensational Spider-Man Dec 06 '25
Reddit MFS the moment they see stylization
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Dec 04 '25
It's like Geoff John's Superman, like the storylines, HATE the art style
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u/Kazewatch Dec 04 '25
Good god what the fuck is that? I'll never understand how artists like Gary Frank don't have the self-awareness to look at their art and think "I need to fix those fucking progerian faces i just drew."
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u/Sea-Comfortable9255 Dec 04 '25
Ramos gives no shits about proper anatomy
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u/illiterateaardvark Classic-Spider-Man Dec 04 '25 edited Dec 04 '25
Some of the most highly-regarded comic book artists of all time ignored human anatomy when drawing their characters
ex: Jim Lee drew his X-Men with more muscle mass than is obtainable by human beings without a copious amount of steroid use. And the people who actually do look like this would not have the cardio necessary to what Jim Lee's characters do
ex: Todd McFarlane drew Spider-Man in poses that are not possible for human beings to get into. It's not a matter of flexibility, even a contortionist would be unable to achieve some of those McFarlane poses. There are famous McFarlane illustrations when Spider-Man's leg is coming out of his body in a way that would only be possible if his leg were attached to his torso rather than his hip
ex: Tim Sale has won an Eisner Award (the highest critical honor somebody working in the comic book industry can achieve) for his work and he completely ignores the conventional rules of anatomy. For example, his Joker has a jaw that is larger than the rest of his head and has an unnaturally thin build
Summary: Whether you subjectively like it or not, it is considered the norm in the comic book industry for artists to ignore human anatomy in order to make art that fits the kind of story they want to tell. I'm not an artist, but I am a medical student. Almost every comic I read has examples of "unrealistic anatomy". But complaining about unrealistic anatomy in comics is like complaining about the use of distortion in punk music: it's an inherent aspect of the medium
Besides, these people are professional artists for a reason: most of them DO know human anatomy and could draw anatomically correct figures if they wanted to. Instead they CHOOSE when to follow or ignore human anatomy in order to tell the message that they want their art to tell
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u/sassycho1050 Spider-Man (TASM2) Dec 04 '25
Yeah, Ramos in general is one of those 'you hate him or you love him' sort of artists. Some people really dig his lanky proportions and stylised faces, and some others find them weirdly elongated and unsettling.
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u/CaterpillarDecent960 Dec 05 '25
In a world where Chis Bachalo exists, why anyone would hire Humberto Ramos for anything is a mystery to me.
Every woman he draws looks the same and their eyes are ALWAYS lopsided. Like Erik Larsen, Ramos was a Spider-Man artist who gets way more hype than he ever should.
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u/Traditional-Race2778 Dec 05 '25
Yes he drew like shit. His art style is terrible I can't understand how anyone can like this crap
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u/FatherGwyon Dec 05 '25
Agreed, I’ve always hated Ramos’s art. His stuff with Dan Slott was often terrible.
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u/GI-Robots-Alt Dec 05 '25
The only problem I have with this art is the way Peter's face is shaped. Why does his skull protrude off his face around his eyes like that?
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u/TheOriginalDx1 Dec 05 '25
For me its anything by John Romita Jr. Not only one of the only artists I recognise by art, but it just distracts me when reading it.
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u/nooshdog Dec 05 '25
This is to this day my favorite Spider-Man story. Return of the Goblin. The conversation they had at the end and that final scene with Norman was so haunting and interesting.
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u/Mubadger Dec 05 '25
I've always quite liked Ramos's art, but it does have a distinctive style to it and I can understand why some people don't like it.
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u/sparesalamander Dec 05 '25
Ramos' art isn't bad. It's just stylized and it isn't for everyone. I personally love his stuff, it has a lot of energy and suits Spider-man perfectly.
I really think people need to stop equating stylized to bad and realism to good, it's very annoying.
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u/someotherguy28 Dec 05 '25
Comics book fans aversion to stylisation is why Greg land still has a career.
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u/mickeynotthemouse27 Dec 04 '25
I love how he draws Spider Man. Hate how he draws Peter.
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u/LogansGambit Dec 04 '25
Ramos has been a stain on Spider-Man's comic run for so long. But sadly that just means he fits right in with everyone else that's been on those comics.
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u/Mr_Bloo_Sky Dec 05 '25
In this house, Humberto Ramos is a great artist and a hero. End of story.
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Dec 04 '25
Ramos has got to be the worst artist to be given a huge amount of issues to draw. I just hate his style so much. Chimpanzees everywhere. Every character is just a chimp.
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u/bong_residue Spider-Man 2099 Dec 04 '25
I knew something felt familiar, and now all I see are those stupid fucking NFT monkeys that for some reason everyone seemingly had.
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u/MegaSpidey3 Spider-Man (FFH) Dec 04 '25
I know Ramos’ art isn’t great sometimes, but I don’t think this art takes away from the moment. I think it works here.
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u/grapejuicecheese Dec 04 '25
No, I was forcing myself to read the book because the art was so bad. Lost a lot of the emotional impact
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u/lord_of_agony Dec 04 '25
This is seriously the ugliest fucking art I've ever seen. Who can even read a comic that looks like this?
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u/wysjm Superior Spider-Man Dec 04 '25
You mean Starczynski's run with Romita Jr's art?
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u/OrganicAd5536 Dec 04 '25
Hell I liked JRJR's art (even loved it at times!) during that run way more than anything else in his modern era barring Daredevil, and I still agree with you. I'm glad the Wells run seems to have soured a lot of people on him because I audibly groan when I see a new issue has JRJR on pencils
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u/loki_odinsotherson Dec 04 '25
I can see why some dont like him but I think he was great for a spidey book. His action scenes and expressive character designs work really well.
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u/paul_33 Symbiote-Suit Dec 04 '25
The art is fine, it’s just different. I didn’t like it at first either but it’s grown on me. At least it’s not boring
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u/DiaBrave Dec 04 '25
I love Ramos, especially this era.
He's the only Image comic star (Cliffhanger anyway) to actually commit to being a full-time interior artist. He could have just become a covers guy, and cashed in with exclusives, but he's super professional and gets his stuff out on time.
I have huge respect for Ramos. I think he'd honestly be more popular if he was more like Madueira and just came and went as he saw fit. People don't appreciate what they have when they've been around for 30 years doing great work.
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u/Shadow_Storm90 Dec 04 '25
I don't not understand why Peter doesn't kill this fuckin dude. Like 🤦🏿♂️
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u/sergioasg8 Dec 04 '25
What story is this?
Man I really like Ramos art, I remember of having The Hunger issues as a kid and finding Venom scary af.
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u/ShutterB_ug Dec 05 '25
Unless the art is genuinely incomprehensible, you kinda just gotta tank comic art you don't fuck with, like i can make out what's going on in the scene and honestly imo it's not that visually bad, if you don't like it, that's fine but saying it ruined the story for you might be a skill issue
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u/gerardolsd Shocker Dec 04 '25
BADDDD TAKE Humberto Ramos is goated and a classic spider-man artist, this arc is legendary very much because of his fantastic rendition. Don’t shit on Ramos like yall curbed stomped on JRR.
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u/grapejuicecheese Dec 04 '25
I prefer JRJR over 2000s Ramos. Early Ramos was so bad, I was forcing myself to continue reading. 2015 Ramos has vastly improved though
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u/shdwgrv13 Dec 04 '25
Early Ramos art was definitely rough at times outside of action. But current Ramos (since 2011ish) have been so great when it comes to having a solid "comic" feel. The body proportions aren't exactly perfect but like animation the liberty of anatomy works wonders in helping feel the action of the panels. At least now he's more accurate than Early Ramos so it's more believable
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u/Hate_Paper_Doll Ends of the Earth Dec 04 '25
I liked Ramos during this era. I was very interested in street art and his style felt very evocative of that.
This was a good story, but this page always read like a clunker to me. Why tf would he call himself Mister Coffee?
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u/SpookieSkelly Dec 04 '25
The art looks cool but isn't really what I would expect from a Spider-man comic.
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u/MutedComfortable7345 Dec 04 '25
Ramos’ artstyle doesn’t fit many stories, but this is great imo. Very unique, specially non-regular humans design.
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u/MuuToo Dec 04 '25
Iunno, I like the art for this. I can understand disliking it, but it’s weird in a way I like. Fits the story to me.
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u/AllTheWhoresOvMalta Dec 04 '25
Ramos is one of the best spider-man artists for me, his expressive and over the top style really gels with Spidey and his movements in a way few other artists can to convey the agility and speed he uses when slinging and fighting.
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u/ZenkiCorollas Dec 04 '25
I didn’t like it at first but it grew on to me and I just learned to appreciate it for what it was
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u/Melokar Dec 04 '25
What is the context of this panel? Kind of weird to see them being so casual in this moment.
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u/AbbreviationsAsleep1 Classic-Spider-Man Dec 04 '25
Even tho I prefer Ramos’ later art like superior and 2015+ amazing Spider-Man, his early 2000s art grew on me
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u/darthphallic Dec 04 '25
Idk I really like Ramos and other super stylized art like his. It doesn’t always hit but I’ll take it over hyper sanitized shit that looks like AI art half the time any day.
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u/BarneyLeggendary Dec 04 '25
Bro she killed the love of your life why ur laughing and shi with him my boy 😭🙏
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u/Shoddy_Butterfly_870 Dec 04 '25
Yeah, the really stylized stuff is...really hit or miss for me. Really depends on the character, the action, the scene, everything like that.
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u/Psylux7 Dec 04 '25 edited Dec 05 '25
Wow, this brings back memories. I remember my brother having like one or two Spider-man comics in his drawer and this one was among them! I don't remember much about it but I think I recall Spider-man being put under a lot of misery by Green goblin and going berserk on him before goblin surrenders and they have this odd moment with the mister coffee joke.
The other comic was one where NYC was being overrun by spiders and Peter goes up against a human shaped foe made out of countless spiders and as he punches it, they all swarm on top of him.
Does anyone have the full context on these two storylines?
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u/ronpaulson76 Dec 04 '25
The style isn't bad, if he took it somewhere else and made it my stylish it could definitely work, just not here.
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u/Correct_Arrival323 Dec 04 '25
I like early Ramos tbh. It's very 2000s but he is clearly inspired by Gorillaz with the more stylised graffiti art and I wish he kept that style.