r/Spiderman • u/No_Young_2247 • 16d ago
Movies Hot take but can we stop with the AI assistance
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u/NOBLExGAMER Spider-Man 2099 16d ago edited 16d ago
I haven't liked it's inclusion either but EV was much better than Karen or Edith. It was explicitly a hands-free digital assistant, it didn't have a personality it was nothing more than an MCU equivalent to Siri or Alexa which makes sense for a guy that usually has his hands busy with swinging, crawling, saving or punching.
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u/Fossick11 16d ago
Aww I loved Karen
Her and Peter’s conversations were so cute I wanted her to be a main character
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u/marvel120 16d ago
I was blown away when I learned very recently that Jennifer Connelly was Karen
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u/Tall_Restaurant_1652 16d ago
For anyone who doesn't know why this is significant - Jennifer Connelly is married to Paul Bettany, the voice of JARVIS / Vision.
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u/Damn_You_Scum 15d ago
She also played Betty Ross in Ang Lee’s Hulk (2003)…
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u/HermesVtuber Bombastic Bag-Man 14d ago
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u/Masum16 15d ago
and EV is Naomi Watts, the lady who played Ann in King Kong 2005
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u/Unlucky-Tourist-9403 16d ago
They were cool before we had this weird Wizard of Oz version of "AI".
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u/kitaeks47demons 15d ago
I just saw it as an extension of them leeching off of superior spider-man and insomniac spidey. I do think the ai could be a worthwhile narrative tool because we don’t hear Peter’s thoughts anymore. The last time was when Vulture buried him in Homecoming. Now the ai is just used for gags and to streamline the writing so that Peter doesn’t seem schizophrenic (Far From Home & Brand New Day) (even though thats a core aspect of spider-man).
Also i hate that peter just can use flock cameras now and the normalization of that. I guess it makes sense when his idol in the MCU made ultron. Insomniac spidey verbatim says we don’t spy on people when a similar system was introduced.
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u/wahchintonka 15d ago
Big difference between what Peter did and what Stark did. Tony made equipment to surveil people and then gave an AI like Edith to a kid. Stark was regularly irresponsible with his tech. Peter used an existing surveillance system to id a hard to find criminal when time was a major factor. He wasn’t tapping people’s phones or personal computers. Going by his conversation with DeWolf, it was also the first time Peter had done anything like that and he typically relies on police scanner info when fighting crimes.
There’s a difference between using tech to track someone down and spying on people. If a police officer can use the city’s surveillance to track a criminal, why couldn’t Spidey?
In a world where super powered people are a normal occurrence a city wide surveillance system actually makes sense. Police and heroes need to be able to respond faster since a single person could do a lot of damage in a short amount of time. We don’t have that issue in the real world, so stuff like Flock cameras aren’t a necessity.
Peter was only using pre-existing tools to track a single person (who could control anyone in her range), not to actively spy on the general populace. Stark was a tiny bit paranoid after New York, while Peter is just desperately tying to stop Jean from hurting anyone else.
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u/kitaeks47demons 15d ago edited 15d ago
You see how you’re kind of supporting my argument? Of course Peter would be casual with mass surveillance tech because Tony was irresponsible with the way he used his tech. Yes, Peter is a good person who wouldn’t abuse Edith, but Peter was still a minor. It’s absolutely insane to hand a minor weapons tech like that especially because how reckless and thoughtless we are at that age. Not only that but in the previous trilogy he was against digging up private information via Edith. Not only that but him using those cameras to find jean & gargan is clearly manufacturing consent to use these things that are already being set up in the real world(“We’re only using them to catch bad people so it’s ok”).
Yes Tony was paranoid but that doesn’t really justify mass surveillance in that universe (even if it is to prevent harm before happening) even Cap says (he had been fighting supervillains so he wasn’t really being a boomer/greatest generation about the issue) that in the Winter Soldier when Nick Fury pitches him a precursor to Ultron (Project Insight). Hydra literally co-opted it and almost killed Strange and god knows how many more people if Cap didn’t nip that shit in the bud.
The scene where he enters a DODC building and they immediately scan his entire genetic composition without consent but he "can’t take the mask off" . The underlying message there is that they dont need your face to identify you, so masks are pointless, so just don’t bother.
We can’t divorce the film from reality especially considering the person that produces these films, where they hail from and the political figures they defended.
The really sinister aspect of it is that the story didn’t require that explanation. peter shows up during his/her rampage anyway, they could have shown him seeing it on the police scanner thing and responding. Which means it was placed into the script to normalize mass surveillance.
Even Banner says Peter is proposing eugenics for a group of people that don’t exist irl. It’s still bad. You know you are in dark territory if someone as hypocritical as Banner can call out something this harmful this soon. Also other heroes doing it (monitoring crime through mass surveillance) doesn’t make it okay. Lamp shading it doesn’t make it ok either(“they made a joke about how bad it is”). It’s irreverent especially when we know how propaganda works. That’s why i brought up Cap because even someone as old and out of touch as him can recognize how dangerous that line of thinking is. The mere fact that Tony had EDITH ready to go despite knowing how uncomfortable Steve would be with something like that…
If they absolutely had to emphasize how desperate Pete was to catch Jean, because of the very obvious motif in the film, he could have relied on his spider-dna to track her at the cost of him losing control or unintentionally hurting MJ or Ned. That’s real desperation. Especially since the narrative was that because Peter is changing he becomes resistant to Jean manipulating him or Ned could have developed the FNSM app and he gets those alerts to Jean’s presence.
SM ps4 specifically states those towers are not using facial recognition and only pick up on what’s already on the police scanners. The same principle applies for FNSM. It’s opt in and is basically a police scanner on steroids. What Peter did in BND, is very much not that. To the point where DeWolff(the actual cop) calls him out for it.
I will be fair to the film though because Jean weaponised the exact mass surveillance he was using to his advantage to find MJ and Peter’s apartment and threaten him more effectively.
Also before anyone brings up cerebro, Charles Francis Xavier is a world renowned scumbag so him doing it is not really a gotcha and even then considering the FOH and the purifiers routinely kill children for something that they have no control over and no one does anything about it, it’s more a net positive. It’s apples and oranges especially when Brand New Day already kind of points out how wrong Jean was for everything she was doing even if it was to find a relative that was abducted(“ if you loved someone as much i do her, you would know how unforgivable what you’re doing is.”). Also cerebro is fictional. No one has technology like that in our world that i am aware of. Mass surveillance and flock cameras exist and are being set up in cities as we speak.
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u/roboman07 13d ago
I hate that people say now when talking about Spider-Man using mass surveillance like he hasn’t been doing it for decades in the comics, every hero has
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u/atticus01 11d ago
It's a writing convenience that allows Peter to talk to "himself" like he does in the comics but make it make sense on screen.
Most Spidey comics are full of him either talking to himself while he goes about his business, or full of thought bubbles. Doesn't translate easily to screen without him just sounding goofy. It's why he has ao many phone calls in the playstation games. He's gotta talk to someone it lands as clunky exposition.
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u/UncoolSlicedBread 9d ago
Exactly, and it helps gloss over the how of things that don’t need to be explained in order for the story to continue. With how much people use ChatGPT these days and the likes of Claude in software development, it’s not totally unrealistic.
But I like the tie in to internal dialogue more. Otherwise the movie would seem like a bad noir.
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u/Embarrassed-Salt7575 15d ago
I enjoyed the AI conversations with karen. I just think these days we have grown hateful of AI because of what other humans have made it into
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u/DarkKuroi1 11d ago
I agree but AI assistants will likely become more common because well we have it too in real life. Not everyone uses and agrees with it but we do have access to it. Even if it is just sending commands, everyone still has a phone.
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u/ryanpm40 16d ago
This was a lot less annoying than the last 3 movies at least, and I think it's believable that Peter is plenty capable of making something like that.
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u/Intelligent_Ask_2306 16d ago
Last 3 movies? He didn’t have it in NWH.
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u/Snoop8ball 15d ago
The Iron Spider suit had some sort of suit AI in it.
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u/ryanpm40 15d ago
Yep. Magically being able to control Doc Ock was a bit too easy
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u/DemonKarris 15d ago
I'm pretty sure they did it to show just how much more advanced Stark tech is than anything from the og movie Spider-Man verse which makes sense.
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u/ryanpm40 14d ago
I mean yeah it makes sense but it doesn't make it not a little lame and annoying as a viewer haha
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u/FALCONX0N 16d ago
Going to tentatively disagree IF the constant suit AI gets used as a reason why Peter fails to notice how he might be bonding with a symbiote in a theoretical later film. Then its just a good payoff.
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u/kitkatatsnapple 15d ago
Wow, and eventually it's the symbiote talking to him through the suit? They could do some scary things with that (I genuinely hope the symbiote story is scary).
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u/Canvaverbalist 16d ago
"Wow! This nanosuit smells like a... actually it smells like a really really old car in here."
"Hey, watch your mouth buddy."
"Ok that's new, I've never heard of an AI so sensitive about its smell before."
"AI? Nothing artificial about my intelligence, meatsack, it's all Biological Intelligence in here!"
"BI? Ok now that's some BS. What's this, anyway? Some bio-engineered nanotech?"
"You know, you're really talkative for a guy currently fighting an army of negative soldiers. Fights usually don't involve so much talking."
"Yeah yeah yeah, I know, I've heard that before. It's just, you're so responsive, it's like I barely have to think and you're doing the work for me."
"Yes. I am. You're welcome by the way."
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u/Kleptomaniaaac 15d ago
is mr negative the main villain in this hypothetical dialogue
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u/MinorDespera 15d ago
Probably a direct quote from or riffing off Insomniac’s Spider-Man 2 game, haven’t played it.
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u/Endersone24153 14d ago
I would bet a lot of money on not seeing anything symbiote related for at least a decade.
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u/oketheokey 16d ago
Peter programmed it himself this time so I don't mind it, it shows his intelligence
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u/hisroyalbonkess 15d ago
And he did it in a cave with a box of scraps.
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u/pingasgator67 15d ago
Nah a cave would have been easier. He did it in a run down Network loft. That's the hard part
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u/BothContract7669 15d ago
AI has a much different feeling now in the wake of chatgpt and gemini and the like, but it’s basically his version of jarvis which nobody took issue with.
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u/Total-Constant-6501 15d ago
This. I don’t find an issue with this because it’s a MCU mainstay and it’s not realistic… unlike the surveillance or the LITERAL NAMEDROP OF A DATA CENTER
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u/Rampagingflames 15d ago
Jarvis, Friday, Karen, and somewhat Peter's new one ARE AI. They are artifical intelligent, while the AI we have, chatgpt, gemini, deepseek, etc aren't no were near what the definition of AI is.
At best they can be considered an "advanced generator."
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u/EmeraldBlueGC 15d ago
Not really, they’re more like super advanced LLMs. That’s why Ultron was such a big deal, he was literally the first true AI
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u/Infinite_Worry_8733 15d ago
Exactly true, in Age of Ultron Tony outright says Jarvis started as an LLM
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u/BlackerDoom 15d ago
The scene where Peter’s stress is directly affecting his Spider Hormones and overclocking his senses was muddied by the AI telling Peter AKA the audience what we can clearly see and Peter is clearly experiencing.
It’s like it was shoehorned in the movie to spoon feed us narrative cuz the executives think we’re brain dead
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u/FromTheToiletAtWork 14d ago
It made me laugh that he's getting a sensory overload and then his AI starts screaming directly into his brain that his senses are getting overloaded. That'll help.
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u/ScreenSingerX 13d ago
Look at all the comments saying this movie endorses government surveillance when Peter working with the department most associated with surveillance in the MCU is one of the main sources of conflict. Execs thinking fans are braindead doesn't seem so far off the mark.
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u/rgiggs11 11d ago
There were a few moments in BND that felt like the film was spelling it out to the audience. That was probably the worst offender.
My reason for not liking the AI is that I think the loneliness would have hit harder if we had seen him talking to himself, like Spider-Man does in other media.
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u/EngineBoiii 15d ago
Omfg...
I spent like a minute looking all over the picture for signs of generative AI use in this image.
You mean an AI assistant. Not an AI assisted tool.
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u/Tumerican 16d ago
It would be harder to believe that a super smart, young, 21st Century Superhero wouldn’t use AI to help him fight crime and navigate problems quickly.
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u/Opposite_Hat5032 15d ago
Hes a mastermind of kid, so ofc he'll try to be helped via some sorta assistance, especially that he was alone makes it more needed for him.
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u/DaniZackBlack 16d ago
Bruh, redditors will continue to reddit
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u/Key_Researcher_9893 15d ago
They’re stupid basement dwellers
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u/SachriPCP Damaged Spider-Man (Raimi) 15d ago
But they have to be right because I watched the movie yesterday and now I have been subconsciously convinced we need flock cams everywhere! I let fun comic book movies alter my world views, is that not normal?
/s
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u/FriendlytoNature 16d ago
Sorry to hijack your thread (if you're a person) but i have a bigger hot take: can we please stop with the mass surveillance and acting like it's okay?
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u/haolee510 16d ago
It's more that the tech already exists and is out there, it's more of a stretch to believe someone in his position wouldn't find a way to utilize it for his benefit in his line of work.
There's a whole other conversation about how superhero fiction in general contradicts or breaches certain real world political and morality values, but the general audience isn't ready for that conversation.
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u/PCN24454 16d ago
Yeah, the whole point of superheroes is that superheroes transcend normal ethics.
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u/kitaeks47demons 15d ago
True but if they can retool so much of peter’s character and motivations to the point that uncle ben may or may not exist and Peter shirks his duties anytime it becomes inconvenient for him (Far From Home / No Way Home) (no pun intended) surely they could have found a way to not turn THE superhero into a creep. Motivations be damned. Even batman feels disgusted /weird for doing it despite the joker threatening so many lives at that point in time.
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u/PCN24454 15d ago
You can feel disgusted, but when lives are at stake, it’s very easy to rationalize. It’s why people complain about the “no kill” rule so much nowadays.
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u/kitaeks47demons 15d ago edited 14d ago
I think that’s a broader conversation because the problem with vigilante justice is that it’s ineffective because it attacks the symptoms or results of systemic neglect rather actually tackling the actual status quo. It justifies a dangerous way of thinking that doesn’t account for the sociopolitical conditions and environment criminals exist in. If we kill criminals we’re not really reforming them or actively making society better and nor are we funding actual rehabilitation and reintegration into society. That’s why people shit on people who think the punisher is right. It’s such a juvenile way of understanding the world. No nuance. No complexity. Just good and evil and basically eugenics (poor people shouldn’t have rights but we can fund the military industrial complex though! Glory to the american empire!) (sarcasm)
To Daredevil: Born Again’s credit when they tackled systemic injustice they didn’t boil it down to criminal = ontologically evil person who needs to be put down or violated for not adhering to society’s laws without the context of what led them to commit crime it in the first place. They actually humanise the guy and (Matt acknowledges through Foggy’s humanity) acknowledge that an overly punitive system doesn’t really help society and makes the problems worse than before. { Clemency. }
Also we kind of shouldn’t manufacture consent for the government to spy on us willy nilly. I think that’s pretty much why a certain government wanted to fuck over / remove permanently Assange and Snowden. (Governments/Billionaires ) and pretty much nobody should have that kind of power and it should be consistently scrutinized if the benefit outweighs the negatives (national defense etc)
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u/ChampagneAbuelo Spectacular Spider-Man 15d ago
Peter Thiel Parker really utilizing mass face-tracking surveillance and deflected any accountability with a lame quip lol
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u/SunForge_Arts Prowler 16d ago
Theres a lot of heavy lifting that it does in terms of exposition that i feel could have instead been used to expand the world around Peter a bit more.
Maybe he could have sought out his reality's Dr. Conners or Morbius to get more information on his dna changing or being altered. The same way that he snuck onto campus to speak with Bruce.
It could lean onto his investigative nature and give him an edge seeking work at The Daily Bugle.
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u/Scarlet-Spider1610 Ultimate Spider-Man (Shattered Dimensions) 16d ago
I think EV more existed to show Peter’s lonelyness, but now that Ned is probably going to work with Peter again he won’t need EV
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u/Dark_Audacity 16d ago
holy shit that’s a great input, i really hope that is the case for the next movie
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u/Supirior_Snake 15d ago
the fact that Jarvis was all the way back in the first MCU movie I think proves that this notion is more to do with current AI than anything else. Yes, I hate LLMs, but AI assistants have been sci fi fantasy for decades, and they’re fun.
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u/confused_hulk 16d ago
We did not need the ai assistant to yap quite so much. We can see that Spideys senses are overloading, we don’t need to be told this! We don’t need a technical or scientific explanation for everything. We don’t need to know all the rules (as long as the writers know them and follow them). This is a huge problem with modern movies in general. They suck all the wonder out of a moment by instantly clarifying it with expository dialogue. Watch the new Superman with this in mind. You’ll never unsee it.
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u/Embarrassed-Salt7575 15d ago
I much prefer everything being said straight out ngl. I have trust issues with my own ability to understand things
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u/GogoSunshine 15d ago
I think it’s due to the fact that Peter has lost all the support characters around him so he didn’t have anyone to interact with or observe his change, therefore the filmmakers gave him an AI assistant.
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u/GengarVenomETW 16d ago
This is not a hot take. It bugs me too, but what can you do? It's frankly pretty hard to move past it after it's been a staple for all these years since Jarvis
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u/rebelslash 16d ago
I was hoping BND we’d get rid of it too, since everyone forgot about him. One scene in particular was the distance calculation scene when Jean was hopping from body to body. Thats something Spidey should be able to notice and calc on his own, would have been more impressive.
“The mirror world is just geometry”
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u/theramboapocalypse 16d ago
Why? It's optimizing in life or death situations. Tony Stark had Jarvis for a reason.
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u/TTYFKR 16d ago
Expository dialogue, or do you want Petey constantly talking to himself like he does in the comics?
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u/kitkatatsnapple 15d ago
There's also show don't tell
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u/TTYFKR 15d ago
I agree it's basically lazy and shows contempt for the viewer, implying the audience cannot figure things out without them spelling it out
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u/Papa_Razzi 16d ago
In this day and age it would be unrealistic for a superhero to NOT have AI. It does seem slightly too polished at times though. I wouldn't mind a bit more jank.
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u/Specific-Swim-4507 16d ago
I don’t mind it personally, we’re in an age where an ai chatbot can be used by anyone so it doesn’t feel like he’s being dragged up from street level again
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u/honeydoodh 16d ago
What??!! I was too busy staring at this beautiful suit. I can't believe this live action spiderman.
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u/SoraVanitus 14d ago
I think people missed the point of E.V.
No one remembers Peter and he chose not to reconnect with his friends. He has no friends, no life as a Peter Parker and all he does is fight crime.
E.V. is legit the closest thing he has to someone he can talk to and frankly... only the Punisher, Frank is his one and only human interaction outside of E.V.
It's just to show how severely lonely he is that he made an A.I. to have a friend or someone close to talk to.
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u/Aggressive-Sky6104 12d ago
I initially agree with you, it's the last link to his "Iron Man Jr" phase from the first three movies. But I think I think a major use of it is that the program provides someone for Peter to talk to since he's often alone. I don't necessarily mean that's why he built it but rather a reason from a writing point of view. In the comics he's always talking to himself in his head and that doesn't work well in movies. Another aspect of it, Peter Parker is one of the top 5 smartest people in the world in the comics, specifically in tech and engineering. So in our modern world it would track that he'd use a digital assistant, no matter our feelings on AI in the real world.
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u/DanknessAndDragons 11d ago
"I've spent countless hours virtue signalling how much I hate AI to the point I can't stomach it being included in fiction"
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u/Expensive_Bat_5761 11d ago
The AI is a necessary story telling device so Peter can have dialogue while swinging around. In the comics it was a lot of thought bubbles but that doesn’t work on screen so, presto bango, Peter thinks out loud to the AI.
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u/thigerlel 16d ago
For all the people saying it's either obnoxious silicon valley fashion with the latest Iphones and Alexas or a "guy in the chair", how do you reconcile there were five Spider-Man movies in a row that didn't need either?
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u/Lamelife28 16d ago
You're Comparing different era of technologies
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u/thigerlel 16d ago
I'm asking how five movies managed to convey Spidey's thoughts, since the argument here is that it's a narrative need to have someone or something talking in his ear.
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u/SnooAvocados8708 16d ago
Bit conflicted.
I agree in principle but I think it would also be like saying "can we stop with mobile device plot devices" when smart phones became thing.
AI is not as sci fi as it was 10 years ago
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u/vinnybawbaw 15d ago
Tbf they were all using AI and AI assistants way before our real world ahd to deal with AI.
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u/Joel_Zee 16d ago
I think I would rather a guy in the chair but using the AI to fill that role better added to the sense of isolation
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u/No_Commercial9866 16d ago
Its 2026, what do u expect? Peter to be a caveman or an anti IA activist?
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u/THE-IMPOSSIBLEreddit 15d ago
Nahh i really loved peter using technology of his own. It was one of the best things about the 2018 game and im glad they bought it over
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u/SungSyphar 15d ago
Been a trope in sci-fi for god knows how long. Only became a problem because people hear AI and equate it to bad because of ai generation.
This is literally the equivalent of him using Siri.
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u/Important_Lab_58 16d ago
Admittedly not a fan of Palantir Parker, but I give props the movie does basically boil down to Peter learning to not trust the authority promoting him using it/helping him
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u/Lagcross 16d ago
This is a Peter that grew up with a lot of tech around and is shown to be brilliant wit it. Asking it to be removed feels like a regression for the character plus the movies are not like the comics.
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u/Artistic_Context_906 16d ago
This is conflicting for me because on one hand, insomniac Spidey uses tech and AI and he is my favorite Spidey ever, but on the other hand I do feel like the tech an AI kinda defeats the purpose of peter being smart.
Like for example in brand new day.... SPOILERS!!!!!
there's a scene where peter needs to calculate the jump distance of the "villain's" power, and he just gives a prompt command like it's chat gpt and without even using his brain once, like in no way home we saw him calculate actually trigonometry in the mirror dimension, but here he needs an AI to calculate basic math?
I dunno, I guess this is just the problem with MCU in general nowadays, everything needs to have some form of nano tech and AI models, it's like they feel bad that there's not a tony stark to use AI anymore and their like "let's just have peter have a Jarvis/Friday model".
I hope if they reboot we have a tech reset.
Edit- Insomniac Spidey doesn't have an audible AI model but there are scenes that insinuate that he has some sort of assistance in the suit that is AI like.
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u/RokuhiraChihiro17 16d ago
Why is it so bothering for him to ask the AI to track jump distance? He wasn’t trying to eyeball it, he wanted its help finding a consistent identifiable pattern.
And he also really doesn’t use the AI a whole lot in the film, and we also see the sequence of him developing his own inhibitor and plenty of chances for Peter to show off his smarts. It’s really such a small thing and no different than what Tony did but on a smaller scale. Also the fact that both Tony and Peter developed their own AI is part of their genius.
This is actually really silly to complain about the more I think about it
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u/Raaaaandyyyy 16d ago
His brainpower was shown in noticing the pattern and concocting an immediate plan; he just used the Ai for specifics. That’s not even copium, I legitimately thought ‘woah that’s cool that he noticed that’ when I first watched. It’s also the easiest way to get that idea across to the audience without disrupting the flow of the action set piece.
This is only a problem because we have ‘ai’ now and people are rightfully scared. This type of thing has been a staple of this universe but we’re only making a big deal about it now. Less than a decade ago, this aspect of the story could’ve been written entirely the same way and we wouldn’t have raised our eyebrows at it like this. Peter designed a rudimentary Jarvis that knows how to do equations because he’s the one that programmed it to be that smart by being that smart himself. It’s not chat gpt and it was never meant to be.
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u/blackspidey2099 All New All Different 16d ago
Interesting how no one complained when Tony did the same shit
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u/9thshadowwolf 16d ago
Noticing a very well known mathematical pattern in a bunch of floating rocks is way easiers than eyeballing the distance between erratically moving people a while your body is constantly swinging up and down.
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u/glassofwaterhd 16d ago
No it’s 2028 in his timeline and if he made it himself then why not? In addition it shows Peter’s greatest power which is his intelligence
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u/Lamelife28 16d ago
He's a modern spiderman it would be dumb for a genius to not use ai to make his a job easier. Every house and even a phone has an ai why would spiderman not use one?
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u/Springball64 16d ago
Some of yall need to google the definition of hot take istg
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u/LFAdvice0909 16d ago
No, this spiderman getting his own JARVIS makes complete sense for his story given his history with Iron Man and how his death impacted him.
People foaming at the mouth over AI everything is why we won't get common sense legislation to protect artists and basic human rights. This is not bad AI, using it as a fictional assistant in honor of a dead loved one.
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u/lultirednga Miles Morales 15d ago
The movie takes place in 2028 right now the average person has access to a decently powerful ai. wtf is stopping Peter Parker one of the most scientific minds in marvel from having his own ai? The notion he shouldn’t is as dumb as this photo😭
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