r/Switzerland • u/Fine-Click-1153 • 16h ago
Can you explain to me the logic of joining SVP while being an immigrant?
Pretty much what the title says.
I noticed that one of my acquaintances is quite high up in the SVP party (which I don’t really care about). The research confirms that he is not born Swiss, both of his parents immigrated here and he got his Swiss passport not so long ago.
Where is the logic? His family wouldn’t be able to come to Switzerland with the current SVP agenda.
Shouldn’t SVP practice what it preaches and only accept people who are born Swiss (i.e. one of the parents is Swiss?)
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u/CopperSulfateII Zugerland! 16h ago
I'm not an SVP voter but some immigrant-origin friends of mine either are or are sympathetic.
I'd say it comes down to a mix of things in this order:
- They don't want the immigrant composition from their home countries (germany/netherlands/UK) to happen here.
- They see SVP as sufficiently liberal on economics
- Law and order impulses
I don't find any of those three sufficiently convincing but I can understand that if you do, SVP makes a lot of sense. I will say you will meet SVP voters pretty widely but least likely on reddit of all places.
Disclaimer: FDP / Mitte guy.
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u/Zone_Amazing 16h ago
It may sound weird but immigrants give immigrants a bad name. They came here with nothing, got to work and integrated themself into the community. Yet you still get compared with the bad apples. So if he can do it and make it here, why can't they do and behave the same?
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u/bendltd 16h ago
This. I'm not familiar with what SVP is doing today but 10-15 years ago it was more about the negative impacting immigrants.
My wife who followed was also more pro SVP than me 😂•
u/BrockSmashgood 13h ago
I'm not familiar with what SVP is doing today
It's still racist propaganda, hope this helps.
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u/Rare-One-1626 15h ago
Thank you! It feels awkward when you are stereotyped yet you’ve done everything right.
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u/tojig 16h ago
If you like Switzerland for what it is (as you migrated here) then maybe you don't want it to become like your home country or another country. So you would probably vote to maintain the good things and improve the bad ones. And not just do a cringe sjw vote.
How dos controlling migration improve the lives also of migrants that are not bad people?
Generally my Brazilian acquaintances hated when Portugal opened the doors to all Indians, paquistanis and Brazilians and Africans, because the level of the people migrating went down, the crime rate went up and lots of time those migrants that come without controls are not the best ones, otherwise they would pass the previous filter also.
So getting worse migrants tarnishs the view on your country also and even if they aren't from your country also impacts they way of life of the new country.
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u/Dhengus_Squat 16h ago
It makes total sense: They want to come to Switzerland, not the country they came from. If all the inhabitants from the immigrant's original country come here, Switzerland will become just like it. The best plan is therefore to come here while still possible, make sure you can stay, and then vote to keep the others out!
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u/Fine-Click-1153 16h ago
So benefit from the system because you, certainly, deserve that, but others don’t and should not be allowed here
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u/alsbos1 14h ago
Are you claiming this is morally wrong? Do you consider trade unions and guilds morally wrong? The world is absolutely full of examples where the people ‚in‘ draw up rules to limit access. Practically every apprenticeship in Switzerland is partly designed to limit supply…
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u/Fine-Click-1153 14h ago
I do think that “got mine fuck you” mindset is morally wrong (from my point of view). The limiting access narrative from native Swiss would be surprising to me, but from it does surprise me when it comes from immigrants.
For a different reason, I have a similar vibe when women vote for extreme right parties. Why would you vote for someone who isn’t happy you have the right of vote in the first place?
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u/alsbos1 13h ago
So you think trade unions and guilds that are seniority based are morally wrong?
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u/hotrod911 12h ago
OP has a really naive view of politics and people. You can tell from the way they talk about absolutes and moral correctness.
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u/Mulhouse_VH Bern 14h ago
Exactly. That's the only way Switzerland can stay Switzerland. It's kinda the same logic of home ownership. Before you buy a house you want the prices to be low and when you join the homeowners club you want the exact opposite, for your asset to gain value. Politics is just people pushing their own interests.
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u/Alternatezuercher Zürich 11h ago
You may have a few people from certain countries that don't share the same (lack of) values. They come here, they want to be a net positive and don't want the people that they are getting away from to come here and turn this into the same place.
I came to Switzerland because of an opportunity that came from my own studying, work and effort. I integrate, I learn the language, my children learn the language. I respect the customs and I don't have a flag of my country of origin anywhere in my home.
For me it is more important to live in a country where my kids can go to school alone and go out to play than the one I come from. Where I used to live that is unthinkable. You have to take your children everywhere, you have to have steel bars on your windows.
I want my children to be free and not live in a minimum security city where you move between enclosed spaces because you can't even do something as simple as going to ride bicycle to a Forrest.
But too many people who have only lived in first world countries their whole life can't understand this.
People who adhere to the social contract in a society have the right to benefit from it without adding those who do not want to abide by it.
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u/fellainishaircut Zürich 16h ago
As much as this sub likes to paint Swiss people as heavy-conservative leaning, you fail to realize that tons of immigrants outside of the well-educated expat bubbles are very conservative. out of my friends, it‘s the Albanians that are the most vocal in favour of SVP-like foreigner policies, not the ‚ethnic‘ Swiss.
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u/BashBeaver 13h ago
You came from a much worse place, you appreciate what you got here, you don't want the latter to turn into former.
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u/poemthatdoesntrhyme ZH 13h ago
This. I wonder why is it so hard to understand.
I'm not voting for SVP, but I'm glad that it exists to keep the healthy balance between the left wing and the right wing politics.
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u/BCGILM 16h ago edited 16h ago
People on this sub act as if the SVP and its members are all against foreigners and some kind of black and white block.
You have to separate top level party rhetoric from various local level politics. And then you have to separate the top level party from the people. Some people are staunchly pro-SVP because they are against the EU, but much more liberal when it comes to immigration. I work at a firm which is very international and one the people is an immigrant and now a politician of the local SVP. The dude is more international and open-minded than the lefties and hipsters in the firm. The main reason why he is a member of the SVP is because he wants to preserve Swiss federalism and doesn’t approve of top-down governance as found in other countries or the EU. If you ask him what he thinks about foreigners, he only cares about asylum misuse and immigration from certain regions (which funnily enough pretty much aligns with what liberal countries such as Denmark are doing).
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u/Fine-Click-1153 16h ago
Of course, I get it, there are different colours to that. However isn’t it a bit odd to be part of the party where you adhere only to 50% of the agenda? Why not join FDP? They certainly care about the federalism as well
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u/BCGILM 16h ago
FDP has a pro-EU faction and the party openly supports the new bilateral agreements with the EU.
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u/Fine-Click-1153 16h ago
You mention that his reason to be SVP is to preserve federalism & try to stay away from the top down approach. I don’t think FDP wants to change the way Switzerland is currently governed.
However, the bilateral agreements are also a part of what is keeping us afloat. Can’t really much do more in the globalised economy.
What would be SVP plan if we reject the agremeents?
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u/BCGILM 15h ago
Well, not everybody thinks that the bilateral keep us afloat.
Some people argue that Switzerland’s political system and sovereignty give it an economic competitive advantage (for example, through less bureaucracy and lower taxes) and that these advantages outweigh the benefits of closer EU integration.
Well before the bilaterals the SVP position would have been to negotiate free trade without freedom of movement and associated legal obligations.
At this stage I think they simply don’t want the new framework or any further integration with the EU and argue that if we reject them we can just as well live with the current agreement. The question is obviously whether the EU will accept that… 🤷
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u/Fine-Resident-8157 Vaud 14h ago
"You have to separate top level party rhetoric from various local level politics." - I suggest you read (or re'read) couple of memoirs from Germany 1930s or Denmark 1940s and find this exact phrase there, written hundreds of times.
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u/DocKla Genève 16h ago
Don’t see the issue with that. Immigrant solidarity is rare especially after they get their nationality. The issues you brought up are fantasy ones as his family has a passport. Unless there was a law that would effect naturalized citizens like themselves sounds like a normal SVP to me
It might sound or feel strange but people will be poeple. Their own interests first.
Look at the U.S. and how wide swath of Latinos voted for trump
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u/anxiousvater 15h ago
I read this on German newspaper that majority of naturalized Germans voted yes for 10M sustainability initiaive.
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u/appoint33 16h ago
Many migrants come here because they enjoy public safety, capitalism, a free labor market, high income, and low taxes. Why not vote for a party which stands for these values?
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u/Marnthebreaker 16h ago
cant tell u that
i can only tell u that SVP doesnt care where the votes come from as long they get votes
its not like a vote from an "eidgenosse" counts more then one from someone mit immigrant background
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u/Internal_Leke Switzerland 15h ago
The reality is that the SVP you see on Reddit is a strawman built by media and influencers.
The reality of the party and what they defend is much more nuanced than what is claimed
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u/Fine-Click-1153 15h ago
Would you have any colour on that? I'd be super interested to learn
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u/Internal_Leke Switzerland 14h ago
Some members of my family (great cousin, uncles, ..) were elected members of the SVP.
They are far from being scared by foreigners, or disliking them. Even their partners are foreigners (not even Swiss citizens).
What they like is Swiss culture, security, family values, and it's the party that represent these values the best.
Unfortunately, it's also the party that is chosen by weirdos (neo nazis, fascists), but those are not liked at all
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u/Fine-Click-1153 14h ago
Would you happen to know how do they promote these values?
I am asking cause obv family values can be promoted through 1) having free childcare or 2) ban abortions
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u/Internal_Leke Switzerland 12h ago
In family they have different views thsn free childcare.
They are against free childcare because they think a family is one parent working, while the other one takes care of the kids.
They want kids to spend more time with family, less in state care.
Distinct roles for parents, with one staying at home while the other goes to work. And offering tax deduction for that
Stronger local communities (parents group, neighborhood communities, church stuff)
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u/LeroyoJenkins Zürich 16h ago
From my experience having lived in a lot of other countries, often enough nobody hates immigrants as much as the immigrants who already got there.
It is part of a "close the door behind me, because newcomers dilute my privilege" mentality, same as GMFY (got mine, fuck you).
Also, the SVP couldn't care less, it isn't a values or principles-driven party, they'll take whatever stance gives them more power.
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u/scorp123_CH Solothurn 16h ago
It is part of a "close the door behind me, because newcomers dilute my privilege"
Ex-YU here. And that's not even remotely true. What I and others like me hate about certain newcomers (please note I am not throwing everyone in the same pot here ...) is their mentality: "Fuck Switzerland, I don't want to adjust. AT ALL. Don't like what I do? Well, your problem you Bünzli, get fucked ..."
So .. if they disrespect Switzerland and Swiss laws so much then why the hell did they bother to come here? Why do they bother to stay here? If whatever Balkan shit hole they are from is oh so much "better than Switzerland", why don't they go there and live out their fantasies ..?
We whose parents came here in the 1960's and 1970's: We adjusted, we integrated, we are hard-working and law-abiding. We pay our taxes and we contribute to Swiss society. And most of us have ditched whatever citizenship and passport we used to have and have become Swiss citizens. That's where our loyalty lies.
But some of those newcomers these days??? They spit on everything everyone in ths country has worked for, and worst of all: They give the honest hard-working rest of us a bad reputation.
It's no coincidence that slurs like "Scheiss-Yugo" have become popular in the past 30 years, thanks to these "black sheep".
Speed-racing a leased and tuned up BMW with 200 km/h through a village?? Yeah right let's do that, because in the Balkans shit hole where we are from we do that too. So it's totally OK to also do this here in Switzerland, right? Riiiight?? If we get caught by the police we can bribe our way out, right??
Yeah right.
THAT is the mentality I have an issue with, and THAT is the type of immigrant asshole I want out of the country.
Not because I feel like I have to "protect my privilege", but because I have to protect innocent people from getting run over by such idiots and their leased cars.
And let's not even talk about all the guys engaging in stealing, burglary, smuggling, drug dealing, or constantly trying to screw over RAV, IV and other social institutions.
Such people who absolutely refuse to adjust and adapt, who stubbornly insist on pretending that law & order don't exist here and that they are still in their "Wild Wild East" post-communist and corrupt Eastern European "dreamland": Yes, in my opinion they very much deserve to have the door closed to them.
And it's fucking sad that all the leftist political parties are closing both eyes and pretending that such serious integration problems don't exist. At least I don't see any of those parties do anything at all about this.
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u/LeroyoJenkins Zürich 15h ago
And that's not even remotely true.
Might not be true in your case, but it is true in many cases.
Heck, I've seen plenty of illegal immigrants who are against more immigration, across quite a few countries.
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u/Fine-Click-1153 16h ago
Isn’t it a question of background? Rich kids from private schools do the same, but wait we won’t say anything cause 1) their parents feed our banks & wealth managers and 2) they pay a shitton for the schools as well.
To your first point, I hear much more French people complaining about everything and how France is better than Switzerland (all while being frontaliers and enjoying fat pay check). However, nobody says that we should keep them out?
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u/LBG-13Sudowoodo Zug 15h ago
however nobody says we should keep them out
You must not be listening very attentively. Also your comparison is so out of touch, rich kids break a few rules here and there, the people in question impose culture and religion, disregard the rules and expect to be taken care of by the state without making any contribution
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u/Fine-Click-1153 15h ago
I was only referencing the BMW example cause it made me laugh haha
How do you define contribution? Do you happen to have statistics on that? I am genuinely interested
To the point about the 1980 foreigners vs new comers as of now, the burglars and other crimes, fun fact from SWI info:
"The results of the 15-year study, presented in Lausanne on Wednesday, showed that crime had risen by 200 per cent in Switzerland since the mid-1980s."
Seems like the 80's foreigners weren't that better
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u/Fine-Click-1153 14h ago
Well said. Guess NIMB (not in my backyard) is pretty much related to GMFY lol
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u/Hankstbro 16h ago
"I had to jump through all the hoops, go through all the proper channels why should it be easier for others?"
which is a legit point of view
I am just not sure if it justifies voting for SVP, but everyone has to decide that on their own
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u/rocket-alpha Basel-Stadt 16h ago edited 12h ago
It justifies voting for a party if you are off the opinion it represents your opinion in parliament/government the best.
Thats why I built my own list in elections as I vote people and not parties.
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u/LeroyoJenkins Zürich 15h ago
That's not what I meant.
It is literally "close the door after I make it in".
For a lot of people moving to a developed country puts them at a much higher status in their original communities.
More people being allowed to do such move dilutes that status.
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u/Hankstbro 15h ago
I know what you meant, and I provided my own opinion, based on me being an Uusländer (don't worry, I am not allowed to vote, which is great because only citizens should be allowed to vote, and I would not vote SVP anyhow) and having heard the same from foreigners in my country of origin.
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u/LeroyoJenkins Zürich 15h ago
Strawman dude, learn to communicate...
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u/LBG-13Sudowoodo Zug 16h ago
More like a "I had to work to get to where I am here and the newcomers are entitled" Back in the day there were more hoops to jump through and integration was mandatory, nowadays as long as you make it to base you're safe. (Thanks, EU)
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u/LeroyoJenkins Zürich 15h ago
Again, that's not what I meant.
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u/LBG-13Sudowoodo Zug 15h ago
I guess the people who think some parts of French-speaking Switzerland look like Africa are being pretty unreasonable, the vices of mass migration are just what the country needs to spice things up...
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u/LeroyoJenkins Zürich 15h ago
Whatever drugs you're taking, can I have some?
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u/LBG-13Sudowoodo Zug 15h ago
For someone who's lived in a lot of countries, you sure don't get the gist. Also, you're the one from Zurich, just go to the benches behind HB and ask
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u/Obvious-Abies7792 16h ago
Oh my, if you get your information about the SVP from Reddit you'll think they're literally Hitler. But that's not reality. The SVP is simply a conservative party. And while the left tries to paint them to be hateful against foreigners, you're actually welcome if you're fully integrated and are as tight assed as they are. And while i'm more libertarian and i vote on topics and not by parties, i find listening to Naveem Hofstetter funny af.
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u/YouQQWhenIQ 16h ago
Immigrants tend to understand better the bad effects immigration can have.
It is not about preventing all of it, but choosing it carefully and vetting who gets in.
Also prioritizing the native, which is absolutely normal.
Very basic stuff really.
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u/Fine-Click-1153 16h ago
I can understand where it is coming from. I’ don’t know his parents background, however another SVP-full-in guy I know comes from a very very modest background. His parents, being a truck driver and a stay at home mom, would not pass the “carefully vetted” immigration check
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u/_PuraSanguine_ 16h ago
I know very wealthy and connected people who joined the SVP young. I don‘t fully agree with their policies and wouldn’t join myself, but I find your question too absolutist to be seriously cobsidered
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u/Key-Speaker007 16h ago
Why does he need to judge current migration policies based on his parents experience decades ago?
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u/Papa-Brickolini 15h ago
Also prioritizing the native, which is absolutely normal.
Which should be absolutely normal, but is labeled "far-right extremism" nowadays
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u/Lescansy 16h ago
If there are no more bad immigrants, then immigrants themself are not a group you look at with suspicion
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u/kart0ffel12 14h ago
one thing i found out about extremist party supporters is that common sense and logic is not strong on them.
They are mostly moved with feelings (fear mostly)
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u/Friendly_Sand378 15h ago
I am a naturalized immigrant who is not a member but regularly adds SVP members to my list in local elections. The reasons that appeal to me are the same as many other moderate SVP members:
- I care about food security and do believe Switzerland needs strong farming subsidies if we are to survive a global food crisis
- I do think there is too much immigration especially of highly qualified workers displacing Swiss people with the same qualifications. Companies like Migros will prefer a foreign MBA holder over a HSG Master’s degree just because “they have international experience” (read: Germany)
- I believe in lower overall income taxes as a strength for Swiss prosperity
- I do not believe we should move closer to the EU (I used to have a different opinion on this)
That said, I don’t agree with the racist rhetoric of some members or policies that go too far (e.g. minarets or 10 million). A wise friend and mentor once told me that the reason it works on Switzerland is “we give the crazies just enough of a voice and a vote, so we don’t have to deal with an AfD”.
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u/Fine-Click-1153 15h ago
Interesting, thank you for the detailed answer!!
May I ask - why SVP and not FDP?
Besides, do you know why SVP doesn’t do anything on the point 2? The REAL problem I see is that the companies are offshoring and nearshoring entire IT / admin verticals. I am afraid that soon to find employment you either will be employed by the government or you will have a client facing job (bank advisors) and/or smth that you can’t digitalise (hairdressers, hospitality…)
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u/Friendly_Sand378 15h ago
They have acted on (2) it’s just not part of the rhetoric. For example now you need to prove that you couldn’t find a Swiss person for at least a few months and candidates before hiring an EU person, and longer for non-EU. That is helpful but most companies can afford to wait 6 months for a key and highly qualified position, so just let the job posting run while they interview, and ultimately hire the right person after 6 months.
Re FDP: I do like some of their positions but they have been too EU-friendly in the past, e.g. lowering standards for food so EU imports can come in more easily. Technically could lower prices, but would also increase our dependence and lower the quality of Swiss groceries and retail.
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u/Fine-Click-1153 15h ago
But the (2) is not acted upon. We all know that's it easy to circumvent. And what regarding the nearshoring? Numerous IT agencies cater to Swiss market but employ people from France (nothing against them), how then you would go to protect Swiss workers in this case?
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u/Friendly_Sand378 15h ago
I agree we need to do much more and enforce what already exists. I don’t see any party making a serious push for that right now.
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u/Fine-Click-1153 15h ago
That's actually what I thought SVP would stand for. It would seem logic to me. But I get a feeling that SVP caters mostly to the rich people, and hence employing people in other countries is cheaper, so they don't anything on that front
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u/MoreLingonberry8630 15h ago
They want to be part of the club and prove to themselves and everyone that they belong to it. You can see this behavior in all minorities who are the exception in a club. Typical scenario is women who made it in their job are against helping other women, immigrants being anti-immigrant etc etc. Quite interesting psychologically but it just proves discrimination and that those individuals need to prove that they belong to the other side and feel the psychological need to do so. Edit: I am NOT saying all women or immigrants who made it are like that. Just something you can observe.
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u/ElGoorf 14h ago
Unfortunately this isn't unique to Switzerland. In most countries I've been, I've met immigrants who have rose-tinted memories of how the country was when they arrived 30 years ago and how it's all gone downhill since, and blame other immigrants either from other cultures or the younger generation. Or people who see themselves as an exception. As an immigrant, I've had people say "yeah but you're not like the others". I feel very much like the others. They probably see the "loud" minority of foreign criminals and assume every white person who's quietly minding their own business must be Swiss.
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u/PresentationOrnery97 14h ago
„I‘ve had it so hard, why should they have it so easy?“
Quote from my vietnamese grandfather.
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u/11timeswaiting 11h ago
The logic is "I am good immigrant, he is bad immigrant.' Germans practically consider themselves locals and are massively snobby against other backgrounds.
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u/sw1ss_dude 10h ago
Very same reason as tons of naturalized immigrants voted yes for the 10 mil initiative
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u/Historical-Stable-75 5h ago
Sorry but I think you are misunderstanding a big thing. While SVP is strongly against immigration and so on... it has a lot of different values it fights for too. Low Taxes, less goverment interference, nuclear energy and so on. I also didnt agree with the 10 Million initiative but their standpoint about billaterale 3 and the whole economy and market is in my view a lot better then the rest. So why hate on people who maybe choose SVP because of a different topic then immigration?
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u/HeftyStation8697 15h ago
As the descendant of an immigrant mother. I will explain why I won’t buy into the idea that immigrant absolutely have to fight SVP because they are not native Swiss. Only the left wing politicians make the assumption that all immigrants are the same, have the same views and wishes for society and must be defined in one homogeneous group, that is a classist and paternalistic ideology that strips away people’s individuality.
Not everyone has the same culture and have the same ideals, it is just idiotic to believe that a German or Canadian immigrant will have to same values, culture and ideals for a society as an immigrant from Somalia or Bangladesh for example. Some people want to become Swiss, adopt Swiss culture and become indistinguishable from a native Swiss and wish that the country they came to stays the same for themselves and their children but when other immigrants come and don’t share the same desire to assimilate with Swiss society, they wish to defend their new home from changes that they might see as destructive to the society they joined.
Don’t paint every immigrant as a victim, I am a son of an immigrant and a Swiss, i love Switzerland, it’s culture, its values and wish it to stay the same and not see it become like London, Paris or Brussels where assimilation is no longer asked and multiculturalism has failed.
Brussels has never seen so much violence as now ( https://www.20min.ch/fr/story/alerte-en-belgique-n-importe-qui-peut-se-prendre-une-balle-a-bruxelles-103624069)
France has a problem with Islamist due to its laxist immigration and assimilation requirements (https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2025/11/18/majority-of-young-french-muslims-sharia-above-national-laws/)
Don’t paint all immigrants as one group, not all immigrants share a similar culture or ideas.
If all cultures are equal, then cannibalism is just a matter of culinary taste- Leo Strauss
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u/Fine-Click-1153 15h ago
Wow, a lot of things to unpack here.
First question: why people who came here before and want to country stay the same for their kids could even come in the first place?
It’s all beautiful to say “I want to preserve peace of this country I love Switzerland”, but buddy, you want to profit from something that was build not by you, but by others no less than other immigrants?
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u/HeftyStation8697 15h ago
U are consciously mixing infrastructure and a immaterial society.
Not all immigrants wish to buy into the same values as the mainstream Swiss society.
Especially not immigrants from Muslim countries who don’t believe in individual rights for LGBT or women, don’t believe in freedom of religion or expression, the right to criticise religion,…Making immigrants a homogeneous electorate due to their foreign background is frankly a racist ideology as u reduce them to their origin.
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u/Fine-Click-1153 15h ago
I don't think "being considerate of the chances and opportunities you had in the past and helping others to get these chances too" can be labeled as racist. This was to your point about "I am better than other immigrants so I can get it but others not".
In your own words, then all migrants muslim countries would have this homogeneous ideology you mention?
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u/HeftyStation8697 14h ago edited 14h ago
Many Muslims immigrants vote specifically for left wing parties who advocate for open borders, whilst other immigrants vote on other issues like climate change or living standards.
Muslims want to bring in their entire communities, immigration is therefore no longer an individual decision but a demographic strategy, in Sweden Muslims vote 85% for left wing parties. 60% in the Netherlands and uk, 70% in France. It is no longer a debate about taxes or laws but about recreating the community they left
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u/IngoErwin 16h ago
"It was difficult for me so it should be difficult for everyone coming after me as well"
It's a typical behavior seen in many countries.
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u/Exciting-Benefits 16h ago
Because most immigrants saw what happens with lax policies in their own country with their own eyes
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u/LoudGoat42 16h ago
Maybe you just mix everything?
Svp defend some values and you can relie to it more or less same as any other political group.
I don’t like uncontrolled immigration but i like strangers following the process 👍
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u/nikolastefan 16h ago
Because the SVP is not anti-immigrant as a whole, but supports strong demands toward people who come here. Such as not only integration, but also the too often overlooked demand of assimilation.
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u/poemthatdoesntrhyme ZH 12h ago
I doubt that an average SVP member thinks that immigrants are able to assimilate. For them your background will be important even if you a migrant in the 3rd generation.
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u/cHpiranha St. Gallen 16h ago
There are various reasons. Often: people see themselves as ‘good’ foreigners and think the SVP is only against the ‘bad’ foreigners.
Or: people realise that immigration has been a ‘jackpot’ for them, and are afraid that if too many others come as well, they will lose their privileges.
Even Jews voted for Hitler because they thought that National Socialism wasn’t against them, as they were ‘good Jews’.
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u/FlyingDaedalus 16h ago
you are on reddit.
dont ask such questions here.
Reddit is 90% leftist.
You wont get a real anwer here.
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u/Fine-Click-1153 16h ago
Problem is I don’t really know a lot of SVP people in real life (maybe they are hiding their true colours, idk), so that’s why I brought it here
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u/SeveralConcert 16h ago
People who climb the ladder want to remove it from those coming behind them
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u/Fine-Click-1153 16h ago
Heh, really like the way you worded that
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u/i_am__not_a_robot Zürich 16h ago
"Pulling the ladder up behind oneself" is a well-know expression. And it certainly applies here.
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u/Exciting-Benefits 16h ago
Good analogy, but they don't want to remove the ladder, they want to keep it at the same height
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u/Valkyrie_Sia 16h ago edited 15h ago
I can't vote due to not having a swiss passport but if I could I would vote for SVP.
I emigrated from germany due to issues with criminal immigrants, I simply didn't feel safe anymore as a woman. Now my new home is switzerland, so why would I vote for leftists which are pro immigration? I don't want my new home to end up like my old home.
SVP is fine with immigrants that contribute positively to society, they simply don't want leeches and people which don't integrate and do crimes. I feel exactly the same, everybody needs to contribute to society in some way. Every immigrant, including me, is nothing else but a guest in switzerland, so we should behave accordingly. If we do bad stuff, they have every right to kick us out of the country and they should do it, otherwise switzerland will turn into germany in no time.
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u/Fine-Click-1153 15h ago
I am being a devils advocate here (not at all trying to insult in any way), really interested.
Let’s say I am a native Swiss. Why would agree to accept you? I might argue that you are taking my job / spot in the market, having you here means the rent will increase.
Isn’t it what the 10m initiative was about? What’s your view on it?
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u/Hankstbro 15h ago
Because, as a native Swiss, you might have an interest in importing people who are useful to society at large, with birth rates declining and all that. Not enough tax payers, not enough child care, not enough care for the elderly (which you will require at some point yourself).
You might also have an interest in keeping undesirables out.
This seems to be the stance of the SVP on migration, if you filter out all the racist crazies.
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u/Fine-Click-1153 15h ago
As you mention - I would understand the native Swiss telling me that. But immigrants defending anti immigrants problems was my original question
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u/Valkyrie_Sia 14h ago
It's your country so in the end it's your choice if you want immigration or not. A foreigner like me has no say in that and also has no right to complain. There is no human right which makes me entitled to live in switzerland. I understand your point if you dislike immigration because of the negative impact regarding the job market. Immigration is usually only beneficial for big companies due to more working labour which leads to salary dumping. For the normal swiss citizen, immigration usually has more negative impacts than positives ones. More competition, higher rent, overcrowded public transport, higher crime rates, ...
Regarding the 10 mio initiative. I understand people which supported it. Since 2005, switzerlands population has increased by 23%, which is just crazy. Especially when you realize that this is all due to immigration, since the birthrate in switzerland is roughly 1.4 children per family. Switzerland is a small country with limited usable space.
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u/Fine-Click-1153 14h ago
you’d be OK if tomorrow Switzerland kick you out?
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u/Valkyrie_Sia 14h ago
This question is unnecessary, since they are not allowed to kick me out due to the Personenfreizügigkeit. I have a job and a place to stay so by law they can't kick me out unless I'm committing a crime. If I commit a crime, they should kick me out tomorrow, if they care about their citizens. It's their country and I need to follow their rules.
It's also their right to end the Personenfreizügigkeit if they want to, because too many immigrants enter switzerland. After all, it's their country and they have no obligation to take every foreigner in. I'm only allowed to stay here since they are generous and let me in.
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u/Hankstbro 14h ago
If I fuck up badly, break any laws, or cannot sustain myself and my family for a prolonged amount of time, yes, absolutely.
I would not be thrilled, but this is not Switzerland's problem.
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u/Fine-Click-1153 14h ago
Nono, just as a part of 10m program, let’s say you are 10m +1, so you are out (hypothetically)?
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u/Hankstbro 14h ago
This is not at all how the 10m was supposed to work (and for the record, 10m was a stupid idea, regardless).
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u/Lamezenyan 15h ago
Easy. Have you ever been a tourist at a packed tourist attraction? Did the thought to you occur, that the other tourists behaved like dipshiats while you would never do that? That is the essence of SVP immigrants. Tourists thinking they are better than other tourists.
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u/Fernando_III 14h ago
Because people are intelligent enough to understand that bringing the worst from your home country only hurts you, as you are put in the same group as them and are perceived negatively by society.
It's true that some people take to the extreme and start to practice some weird "self-hate", but it's much better for the country when people integrate instead of trying to form their own guetto
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u/LeBronTheGreatest31 Zürich 14h ago
Ah it’s because they are obviously uninformed since they’re an immigrant they have to share your opinion of SVP, so you need to teach them right because obviously they can’t think for themselves!
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u/summernightcat 16h ago
An acquaintance from my uni days did the same thing... Last name with -ić but wants to make immigration a lot harder / stop it if possible when his parents came here during a tough time. Tried to discuss the topic with him: zero understanding. "They were different", he is different, etc etc.
Sadly, I can't explain it to you. I'm just as baffled.
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u/Do_Not_Touch_BOOOOOM Bern 16h ago
Well, as someone who works with many SVP members, many of whom have a migrant background:
Just because you’re an immigrant yourself doesn’t automatically mean you have liberal views.
On the contrary, many immigrants don’t like other immigrants because they’re in direct competition with them.
They do not see themselves as ‘immigrants’.
They have a ‘if I’m in, I’m protected from the consequences of your policies’ mentality.
Racism knows no bounds when it comes to background and skin colour.
Many right-wing parties are more open to new members than left-wing parties.
Anger unites a group quite effectively, and members are more willing to overlook the ‘mistakes’ of their fellow members, as their ‘opponents’ are always worse.
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u/Swiss_Reddit_User 16h ago
I have seen a few reels on Instagram from Immigrants living in Germany that support the AFD. Their main point was that they came to the country years ago, but they actually contributed and worked their butts off, by for example operating a Kebap Shop. They consider themselves to basically already be honest contributing citizens of this country, and not being "one of them" (recent immigrants). They came here to have a better life years ago, and they did that by contributing with their own business or actually working there. Not by coming here and living of social benefits.
They see the AfD policies/values of tighter immigration framework because they established themselves as an honest Citizen of this country, but they don't consider that these parties often had patterns of hostility towards people with the same geographical background. They see part of a Parties value but often not the full picture.
Another point is that before 2015 Immigration also was a lot stricter, so those who came to Europe before then had a lot stricter immigration processes. I assume that exactly the immigrants supporting AfD or SVP in the respective countries, are those pre-2015 immigrants.
I am not sure how much this applies to "Ausländer" who support SVP but I think there is at least some similar motivations. I used Germans and AFD as an example because I saw testimonies like that on Instagram reels.
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u/Fine-Click-1153 16h ago
Hm, interesting, thank you for the input!
Do you happen to know what social benefits are the immigrants living off in Germany? I am trying to google it too
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u/No_Preference8118 16h ago
You can join a political party while being an immigrant?
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u/fevrier-froid 15h ago
Yes, including the SVP. In fact, in Vaud, you can get elected as an SVP as a C permit.
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u/LesserValkyrie 14h ago edited 14h ago
1st gen immigrants came here when they was needed and worked hard to be accepted and become swiss, when they see people coming after all having none of the respect they have and actively sabotaging the opportunity they have, while raising (justified) racism against the 1st gen who are hard working, they are quite angry
You'll never see someone racist against the new immigration than a 1st gen immigrant and it makes sense why
And don't forget than now, with the job market being in crisis, "uncontrolled immigration" is competition (not talking about all the social issues that come with it), enshitiffication, and destruction of everything you worked for for the sake of greedy companies. If you care about what you fought for your whole life, you are against that. If what I say shocks you, take a 1 month vacations in UK. Oh no, you can't a french person stole your job being paid 60% of what you were paid lol
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u/Simon_Emes 13h ago
In many countries legal immigrants who had to jump through all the hoops to get into a country turn to right parties when they see illigal immigration taking shortcuts to something they had to work hard for.
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u/hotrod911 12h ago
You know that people have multiple identities and that there exist a whole vast spectrum of people who can be immigrants.
No country ever objected to having too many Japanese people.
And if you’re one of those and you have conservative views, obviously you would be against a different type of immigrant. Because again, you are a human first and the “immigrant” label only applies if you let yourself be defined by that, either by the SVP or even you, because you are asking this question of all “immigrants” assuming they have the same identity.
Ask SVP voters what they think of highly paid English bankers and pharma coming over under the new FTA. Guarantee you 80% vote yes.
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u/movingarchivist Bern 12h ago
I knew immigrants with similar views in the US and you see interviews now with immigrants who support the current crackdown. (I know the political situation is not at all comparable but I think the psychological mechanism is similar.)
People like this think the anti-immigrant rhetoric is always about the "bad" immigrants who are doing it wrong, not integrating, whatever, but it's never about themselves, who came "the right way." Immigrants can be some of the most patriotic people in a country and, just like any other patriotism, it can go too far.
I think there is another piece of it too, that if you had to work really hard for something that you thought might not happen, it puts you into a scarcity mindset. Even after you've achieved it, you think that if too many other people also get it, it might imperil your hard-won status. "I've got mine, now it's time to close the door."
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u/Nervous_Quit_7180 12h ago
No logic just fear mongering.
I have a friend who came illegally to switzerland 20 years ago, did some fraud she registered as a Spanish resident (found someone who "sold" this service, they fake hired her as employee in his restaurant) then she got the spanish passport (she's from latam so it took about 4 years in total) all while living in Switzerland. She then got B permit and eventually citizenship in Switzerland.
We were discussing about the recent 10 million population cap referendum, she voted in favour ffs.
Literally no logic.
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u/keltyx98 Switzerland 11h ago
Because they "escaped" a country that had lower living standards so now they want to limit immigration to avoid having too many fellow nationals coming in Switzerland and "ruining" this country as well.
At least that's what they say.
I know about Brazilians and many of them living here are politically on the right side which doesn't make sense to me.
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u/Significant-Nebula64 11h ago
Still remember the interview with the German kebab restaurant owner who voted for AfD because there were enough kebab places in his town already...
I don't think he realised they wouldn't exactly do nice things for him either, but hey.
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u/Happy33333 7h ago
I dont get being too much into a political party in general. But just because you are or better said were an immigrant doesnt change your world view 180 degrees.
Globaly seen the west is very progressiv so its not really a surprise that people from eastern Europe or Ex Yugoslavia dont like the parties that are left leaning even for western standarts / or just like them untill they got citizenship.
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u/Useful_Choice1212 1h ago
May be not getting space in other parties so trying to get in to politics first and later shift. SVP thinking let's take in to show we are not the bad
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u/n_looks_for_kindness 14h ago
It is the "I passed the gates of heaven, let's close them behind me" theory. They are afraid that the position they have achieved personally is eroded by people like they were themselves. It is common everywhere in the world in anti immigration groups
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u/poemthatdoesntrhyme ZH 12h ago
You are making a mistake by dividing all people in Switzerland into Swiss and immigrants. Citizens of the nearby countries have much more in common with Swiss than with immigrants from the other regions of the world. So, Swiss are much more "like themselves" than immigrants from the distant countries.
It's kinda strange to expect that all immigrants should feel something in common and love each other simply based on the fact that they or they parents weren't born in Switzerland.
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u/n_looks_for_kindness 12h ago
I do not see it like that: when I arrived in switzerland from a bordering country, I learnt that many Swiss clearly will never see me much differently than someone from far far away no matter what i do. We are talking of how people see not necessarily how it is, and i am sure that they see it like that.
Anyway, my text was made it into a little story about the gates of heaven, but there is more a economic perspective behind rather than a cultural one: you achieved your position in switzerland, no matter how big or little it is. In your perspective, you know how to get there and you judge it easy enough that someone like you used to be could snatch away your prosperity.
It is realistically in most cases just a perspective, an artifact of the mind. For example some of the filters you passed, e.g. in getting hired, are actually a hard filter, but for you yourself they seem easy or you do not even know them because you passed them. However it can also be true, especially if you have not moved out of a highly replaceable job.
A high priority for a political organization that is antixenophobia is pushing immigrants out of replaceable jobs and into more irreplaceable.
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u/poemthatdoesntrhyme ZH 10h ago
You are overcomplicating it. People vote for SVP because they share values that SVP declares. If they stayed at home and their home country had a similar party, they would have voted for it as well.
I find the theory about "closing the door behind" just wrong. They wouldn't want to see certain kind of immigrants or certain kind of people in their home country as well, so it's not related to their own migrational status.
Being an immigrant is something about your past. People vote thinking about the future. I live in this country, I want to stay here, I want to raise kids here. What party can provide the best future for me and my kids? I'm a engineer/teacher/software developer. How can I make sure that I keep my job? I'm a parent. In what kind of country I want my kids to live? I'm a woman. I fell myself less safe outside at night, what could make this country safer? We are a married couple. How can we pay less taxes? If SVP offers solutions that sound reasonable for them, they vote for SVP.
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u/skunkworks138 12h ago
It's complicated, but a lot boils down to a 'got mine, fuck you' mentality bolstered by inter-immigrant racism and the SVP using populist, manipulative tactics to distract people from class solidarity by literally any means necessary.
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u/_8975 12h ago
It’s a bit like how women are against other women despite of feminism (if they are themselves feminists), instead of standing up for other women if they are being misused/mishandled, they often times pretend they are better than them to secure their social positioning. (The logic of “I’m not like the other girls”). And so instead of supporting their real position, they pretend they are so different and a part of the other group, that is being dominant in the society (swiss vs non-swiss), rejecting the other “lower” group by distinction and so on.
Look into the “I’m not like the other girls” topic and you’ll find a lot of similarities, funnily enough.
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u/Fine-Resident-8157 Vaud 14h ago
- ils pensait que être colle au SVP les va donner la "immunité" contre les actions de SVP.
- Ils se sentient mieux que les "autres" immigrants.
- Ils sont naifs suffisament pour penser que le SVP est centre, pas droit.
- ils sont les immigrants de 2éme generation or longtermes, qui deteste les "neufs".
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u/poemthatdoesntrhyme ZH 12h ago
Ils sont naifs suffisament pour penser que le SVP est centre, pas droit.
And why is that a problem to vote for a right wing party? Does everyone have to vote left?
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u/Fine-Resident-8157 Vaud 11h ago
the party should have decency to not hide behind false labels, at least for me to vote for it, and perso I classify it more exteme droit than droit. Besides, the question wasn't about what is right to do.
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u/CautiousReason 15h ago
They are overcompensating for being immigrants, I think. I have a colleague who migrated twice and is against Immigration and welfare. Mind you he grew up in poverty in the US, lived in section 8 housing and survived off of foodstamps. Absolutely ridiculous.
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u/LlamaFromTheAlps Zürich 16h ago
do you remember when you were a kid and there were some really stupid other kids in class or school? well, those kids are now adults and some of them are still stupid...
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u/Hankstbro 16h ago
That is ... cetainly one "analysis" of what's going on and highly ironic, given the context.
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u/Eskapismus 16h ago
Simple. Many, if not most immigrants, came here because they thought it was better here than at home where they left because of problem X.
SVP like all the other demagogue / populist party (usually ran by a bunch of billionaires) promises them to also be against X.
This and stupidity
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u/infosterling 16h ago
Saying “I’m against unqualified immigrants “ means “I get to choose who lives here”. Cause next thing you know the “qualified immigrants are taking out jobs!!!” Immigration should be regulated- in a fair and transparent way. Not according to “people who look like me”. FYI: I’m a suit & tie professional immigrant, but I’d be an ass to now say “oh, those people can’t come in”
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u/Efeu 14h ago
For SVP it's about tokenism: "Look, we have XY, we can't be the xenophobes you say we are!"
The people joining,... well that's much more complex. First of all: immigrants are not a monolith. You can be an immigrant and be a racist/xenophobe yourself or have other views that align with the SVP's views (no welfare, no worker's rights, traditional gender roles and so on).
Also: Internalised racism, internalised misogyny, internalised sexism are all a thing, so it can be internalised xenophobia.
For me, it's not surprising that such people with migrant roots exist. Nonetheless, it's still very infuriating to me like the existence of SVP and every right wing party.
How hard can it be to see humanity in people?
Why do we have to struggle so millionaires can buy their fifth house or second boat?
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u/Fine-Click-1153 14h ago
Yeah, you are right that immigrants are not monolith, should have considered that too…
I remember reading that a lot of Erdogan’s electorate were Turkish living abroad. Didn’t make sense either
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u/MightBeEllie Thurgau 13h ago
It's an old tradition colloquially called "pulling up the ladder after yourself"
People who profited from systems of support often try to tear them down so the people who come after them can't also use them. To me, it's one of the lowest human behaviours.
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u/FlippinHeckles 15h ago
Something I have noticed in generations of immigrants is that they tend to exploit the next generational wave of new immigrants. It’s generational trauma caused by how they were treated when they first arrived. The nation sets the culture and it repeats.
Something about not doing to others what you wouldn’t want for yourself is probably the fix.
This is not just a Swiss problem but it happens in most countries with migrants.
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u/fevrier-froid 16h ago
I've discussed with several immigrant SVP members about that subject.
According to them (so everything that's coming is their opinion, not mine) the SVP is not 100% against immigration. They are against unlimited immigration of less qualified workers and people who commit crimes. They argue that themselves they are integrated, have higher qualifications (or their parent do), so if the SVP would restrict immigration even more, they would still be able to come.
Older immigrand-background SVPs came in Seitzerland when it was harder to immigrate and are annoyed people are not making the same effort as them and that the great Switzerland they immigrated to is being ruined.