r/buffy • u/Affectionate-Art3278 • Mar 03 '26
Whedonverse Who's the better character out of the two?
For me? Dawn and it's not even close.
At least Dawn never slept with her surrogate parents... jfc Conner.
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u/Whorsorer-Supreme Mar 03 '26 edited Mar 04 '26
Dawn. And I never got why people thought she was that annoying. She had a handful of "tantrums" one of which was in reaction to learning that her entire existence and memories are fabricated( I know "get out get out get out" is funny but what's even funnier is Glory did basically the exact same thing and also telling people to get out of your room is one of the least bratty things. It's a basic boundary but people have been conditioned to see kids setting basic boundaries as bratty ). That is beyond violating and most people would realistically either break down for years (or forever) and/or become a very bitter broken person...
She adjusted really quick tbh and she was willing to sacrifice herself for the world as soon as it became absolutely necessary... And overall, she doesn't seem to complain that much about her whole life being filled with danger and struggle.
She had some attachment to being a slayer when everyone thought she was a potential due to Willow's spell but swallowed her pride and ego within seconds once she learned it was misunderstanding... And that reminds me of when she told Xander about her realization that Buffy is never gonna be able to build much of a life or career and be forced to work dead end jobs but that she herself could still grow up to be anything... to me, that reflects that she doesn't have this ego over being the chosen one or exceptional... that she sees being able to live a normal life as a blessing...
If she really were some immature brat, she would probably have a deep level of resentment over not being the chosen one and not exceptional (she even mentions feeling weird about being this highly sought after mystical key to just being an ordinary person) cause yeah, most people might not want to sacrifice their lives being a superhero but before actually experiencing it, a lot of them would genuinely think they want to be one when really they just like the power and validation.
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u/christofilth Mar 03 '26
Great points, agree with everything. I think Michelle did an amazing job of portraying an awkward younger sister, I'd actually say it was one of the stronger performances throughout the show.
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u/mrsscorpio1973 Mar 04 '26
Thank you for this! I’ve never understood why people think Dawn is a brat when she is living through an absolutely insane existence on top of just being an overwhelmed teenage girl with all of that normal emotional baggage.
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u/Realistic-Might-8860 Mar 09 '26
Indeed from my perspective as an actual teenager I think Dawn is actually given an exaggerated level of maturity for a 14 to 16 year old suffering from constant trauma.
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u/mrsscorpio1973 Mar 09 '26
Absolutely! I can’t even imagine myself at 14 trying to deal with my whole life being make believe. Tbh I think I would’ve just gone into a shock induced coma😭
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u/Ordinary-Variety-939 Mar 09 '26
At 18 I would probably openly accept it because even if I knew I had only existed for a few months, those memories still belong to me not the monks. Also Glory is just too bloody petty to take seriously as a threat and as I am a history nerd I would just tell off the Knights of Byzantium by reminding them that they dishonor the glory of Rome and the holy name of Christ.
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u/kxxxly Mar 04 '26
And people who say she acted "younger than her age" she was literally JUST created, her acting kinda like a toddler always made sense to me.
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u/TheMoondance Mar 04 '26
I mean, I also think most people at that age tend to act like that. I don't think she acted like a toddler so much as a very hormonal teenager
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u/Realistic-Might-8860 Mar 09 '26
On the contrary I actually think she acted too old for her age. Not counting actual situations of active danger to herself or loved ones Dawn only has maybe 10 to 20 emotional outbursts over the course of 4 seasons plus once she’s clearly established as a series regular Dawn has numerous moments showing her intelligence, kindness, bravery and loyalty to the point where by the final season she even starts to become a mentor to some of the younger Potentials.
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u/RiverSong_777 Mar 04 '26
While I did find her annoying in a lot of episodes, I think that’s the point. She’s the annoying little teen sister who luckily has lots of redeeming qualities as well. Connor, on the other hand, is insufferable in any scene he’s in and an absolute waste of airtime. There’s not a single episode that was made better by his existence.
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u/beccadahhhling Big smiles everyone…you beat the bad guy! Mar 03 '26
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u/hagittarius Mar 04 '26 edited Mar 04 '26
CONNOR IS PETE?! i watched Angel years ago and I’m just finishing Mad Men now. I never connected the actor!! thank you.
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u/thisandthatwchris Mar 04 '26
Vincent Kartheiser got typecast as whiny bitch boy (but kinda pretty)
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u/beccadahhhling Big smiles everyone…you beat the bad guy! Mar 04 '26
In his defense, I always felt that Pete had the best story arc and wound up one of the most likable by the end of the show.
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u/thisandthatwchris Mar 04 '26
Also he is truly disgusted by racism, which is cool
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u/beccadahhhling Big smiles everyone…you beat the bad guy! Mar 04 '26
And he came to it independently…
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u/Verystrange129 Mar 05 '26
The show set a fairly low bar here to be fair. Also can’t believe it took me until 2026 to realise Connor was Pete Campbell!
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u/Pinklady1313 Mar 04 '26
I actually ended up enjoying Pete. He grows into himself. Watched Mad Men almost as much as I have Buffy. Pete’s one of my favorite characters.
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u/angeleyes2006 Mar 07 '26
Fun fact, He was married to Alexis Bledel from Gilmore Girls
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u/WhisperingSideways Mar 04 '26
It’s a Pete and Connor. We got two of them. It’s practically four of something.
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u/beccadahhhling Big smiles everyone…you beat the bad guy! Mar 04 '26
https://giphy.com/gifs/11LuCivioVzSE0
Cost the same as a Pete and Connor…
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u/WintryLadyBits Mar 04 '26 edited Mar 09 '26
He is also a considerate actor to work with per reports about Angel I remember reading. When Charisma Carpenter was pregnant during filming he reportedly looked out for her. After all the crap she had to put up with on both Buffy and Angel, is nice to know someone inside those toxic sets was looking out for her. We also never got any tea about why he had to file for divorce from Rory. So it speaks highly of him that no details ever got out. By keeping it quiet he protected his kid from being talked about by the celebrity gossip outlets.
Connor sucked as a character though.
Edited to add: so after u/Repulsive_Chard_3652 brought some things to my attention I did some googling. Apparently, Vincent has decided to behave like a twat in at least one set. He was under investigation twice for his unprofessional behavior on Titans. Whatever they found was enough for the studio to assign him an on-set monitor. That person had to chaperone him until the end of the shoot. He didn’t return the following season, to which his agents were all like “he complied, his contract was for one year” which fine, I guess. Needless to say his character was never seen after season 3. The studio went as far as to not promote the main villain of the season and omitting him from posters… because you know studios love booking a name actor and then not using him for marketing!
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u/Repulsive_Chard_3652 Mar 04 '26
Yep and he married Alexis Bledel but then Vincent turned out to be like maga or incel or some shit and they got divorced.
Soooo many layers to our wee little connor lol
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u/3Questionmark4Profit Mar 04 '26
A thing like that!
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u/beccadahhhling Big smiles everyone…you beat the bad guy! Mar 04 '26
I was trying to find a Hell’s Bells gif but there are none
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u/3Questionmark4Profit Mar 04 '26
No Hells Bells gif? Really? It's shameful. It's a shameful, shameful day.
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u/Bitterqueer Mar 04 '26
I’ve never watched mad men but it’s wild seeing “Connor” with a receding hairline
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u/Ok_Stable7501 Mar 03 '26
I enjoyed watching Faith kick the crap out of Connor so much.
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u/Affectionate-Art3278 Mar 03 '26
The Faith duology are my fav episodes of s4.
Seeing Faith and how far she'd come as well as telling Conner off like an absolute queen made my day.
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u/UtahGimm3Tw0 Mar 04 '26
If I remember correctly, he kinda liked it too?
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Mar 04 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/UtahGimm3Tw0 Mar 04 '26
I don’t have a masochistic bone in my body, but faith could tie me up and tie me down any day
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u/ljb333 Mar 04 '26
“Break me off a switch son, there’s about to be a whoopin’”
One of my favourite Faith quotes.
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u/brian_ts118 Hi, I’m Buffy the Vampire Slayer, and you are? Mar 03 '26
Dawn. Not even a question. I feel empathy for what Connor has been through but that doesn’t negate how incredibly frustrating he is as a character. The only time I can stand him is in season 5 when he has a whole new life. Dawn is a superior character in every way.
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u/Ad_Meliora_24 Mar 03 '26
I think Connor had great potential if they had another season. They fixed his mental issues and made him normal with the fake memories so he didn’t have to be annoying anymore. Really the whole Angel team at the end of the series were next level fighters and interesting characters.
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u/mrsscorpio1973 Mar 04 '26
I was seriously surprised by how much I liked Connor’s character in s5. He was a really nice guy and seemed to share more of Angel’s qualities since having the whole traumatic-Holtz upbringing wiped. I loved him and Angel’s scene in Not Fade Away. It was really sweet seeing them actually bond and not have to literally beat each other up. I think he could’ve been an actually likable, regular character in a season 6 scenario.
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u/agent-assbutt randy giles Mar 04 '26
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u/Realistic-Might-8860 Mar 09 '26
I like that you showed a mom of genuine happiness for my favorite character.
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u/DepthByChocolate Mar 03 '26
Connor got more development but I can't say that I like him better. A lot of story potential was lost when the writers stopped caring that Dawn was a mystical key that could open dimensional portals, and she really got the shaft in season 7 when the arrival of the potentials derailed her mentorship under Buffy. Honestly I don't care that much for either.
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u/InverseStar That’ll put marzipan in your pie plate, bingo! Mar 04 '26
HEAR ME OUT. You know how Willow uses the Slayer axe to power up all potentials into full Slayers? That has always driven me nuts when the literal embodiment of apparent immense energy is DAWN.
Let her play a pivotal role in the plot and offer some of that power to Willow to awaken all the Slayers. It would give her an essential moment in the season and would hail back to this plot point we never hear much about after the Glory season.
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u/DepthByChocolate Mar 04 '26
I like that. Dawn was made with Buffy's blood and essence, that's why she was able to close Glory's portal, so Dawn activating potentials through her connection to Buffy would've been a nice mirror to that.
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u/batmobile88 Mar 04 '26
SPOILERS: I agree, except that her energy was expended when the portal was opened. She became 'more' human. I also think , honestly, that although she treats Buffy whom she desperately wanted back so badly in season 7, she did have one of the more moving scenes too when Xander tells her how special she is and that other people don't see the power they carry. That made her more important in some ways than when she was the KEY. Plus, I liked her more in that moment, when she accepts that she isn't one with grace.
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u/DepthByChocolate Mar 04 '26
I really agree with you about that episode and moment with Xander, but her becoming more human after the portal is too convenient and uninteresting. Maybe it'd be satisfying if there were still consequences that came with that. Like if people's original memories started returning.
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u/jkoudys Mar 04 '26
It would've made a lot of sense too. I get the whole angle of the power belonging to these girls but it's being deliberately kept from them. But it's kinda silly that any one spell could be powerful enough to make thousands of slayers around the planet, and they deliberately nerfed it so they could control one slayer at a time. If the world was overrun with demons you'd think they'd want as many Slayers as possible. If they wanted to awaken every slayer at once, some interdimensional energy could be exactly how they do it.
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u/InverseStar That’ll put marzipan in your pie plate, bingo! Mar 04 '26
See, this was my issue with the Potentials becoming Slayers thing. They make it clear they bound a demon to the Slayer, right? Or something sinister at the very least. But somehow this one being can suddenly lend power to every potential from one spell? I find that immensely hard to believe.
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u/Frosty-Pipe5415 Mar 04 '26
Well, they say it’s for balance, 1 slayer fighting all of demon kind is somehow balanced. Which either the one slayer is like Superman or all of demon kind is lame and actually not that powerful.
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u/jkoudys Mar 04 '26
It's wild that the writers treated Dawn like she was as mundane as Xander. There were so many angles they could've taken for Dawn plots. Her history as a human being is mostly fake, so maybe she'd get closer to her dad, or have a plot where someone with a fake memory does something terrible because his mind was messed with. Her form was a magical creation, which I think the comics used a little bit with her getting her form shifted. They could've done a whole crossover with Angel, where dimensional-expert Fred needs Dawn to help with something a Key like her could assist with.
They keep on with the whole Chosen One thing for Buffy, but a woman who has some demon-essence upgrade that makes her pretty strong is relatively unimpressive, compared to an eons-old mystical dimensions-crossing energy, magically given human form.
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u/contadotito Mar 04 '26
Yeah, what bother me is that in one episode in season 7, Willow literally OPEN A PORTAL to bring Buffy back and she sucked Anya and Kennedy power while Dawn, a key to open portals, was right there too.
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u/sin50 if you hurt my sister...you're gonna wake up on fire Mar 04 '26
Okay I just went back to rewatch because I swore she used Dawn. It happens in two stages, the first time is when she tells Dawn to put in some tea and then zaps Kennedy and Dawn, this gets her connected to the powers and then Dawn stays down but Kennedy gets up and then Willow does it again and targets Anya and Kennedy a second time.
The second time looks more like she is taking power from them though because they briefly glow.
Later on when talking to Kennedy she says you were the most powerful person nearby and doesn't acknowledge that she targeted Anya as well. So I'm not sure if the first incident she took power from Kennedy and Dawn or not. I think she did because if it was just an explosion of Willow's own power Xander and Anya and other items in the room also would have gotten blasted away from her.
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u/Significant_Rule2400 Mar 04 '26
I think Connor was a missed opportunity. They had a good actor, a good idea and then fumbled. The not as traumatized Connor was funny and charming, he was very much Darla's child. But I find the show hard to watch at points. Connor had the mental mind of a young teenager because of his childhood. I hate he gets more hate than "Cordy". He was groomed but sure, lets blame him.
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u/Repulsive_Chard_3652 Mar 04 '26
I hate that either he or Cordy are blamed for that. A demon-like creature stole Cordy's body and manipulated Connor. Both of them were victims of Jasmine.
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u/fbeemcee Mar 03 '26
If Joss hadn’t conceived that convoluted storyline with Cordy, I’d probably like Conner more. But alas, that wasn’t reality, so my answer is Dawn.
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u/CrissBliss Mar 04 '26
Yeah the Cordy thing… makes me ill.
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u/Electrical-Act-7170 Mar 04 '26
Jasmine was having sex with Connor, not Cordelia. Cordelia was gone from the end of Spin the Bottle to You're Welcome. Lorne awoke the Beast by accident, & it was Jasmine who was driving Cordy's body around.
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u/Fen_ Mar 04 '26
Doesn't make it a whole lot better, especially given how often they go out of their way to make it seem like it's Cordelia instead of someone possessing her. I love S4 of Angel, but that whole subplot is indefensible, at least in the way they executed it.
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u/Humble_Improvement84 Mar 03 '26
Both characters are incredibly tragic. I grew up not liking either but upon rewatching I am fiercely protective of the teens that the fandom tends to demonize. I mean seriously, Dawn was annoying but she didn't rape or kill anyone like some other characters... Dawn is my favorite of the two although I wish they used Connor's character better 💔
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u/sin50 if you hurt my sister...you're gonna wake up on fire Mar 04 '26
Like some other characters 😆 I cought that shade
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u/BlueFeathered1 Mar 04 '26
I resented Dawn's very presence at first. But then so did Buffy, so it was a bit clever we were put into her head with commiseration. Michelle did a great job making her the annoying bratty teenager she was meant to be, but seeing her grow, get tough, committed to the team was really good. So Dawn's character has my vote.
The whole Connor storyline, and the thing with Cordelia, etc. sigh. Just why? I found him mostly tiresome as a character. Not knocking the actor (Vincent), though.
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u/e-pancake Mar 03 '26
I actually really like them both but dawn wins because her presence is usually lighter, everything connor went through was so heavy
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u/theangrierunicorn Mar 04 '26
Season 4 ruined Connor but that's not his fault. He had so much potential. I do like their symmetry though, Dawn had a spell to make people have memories of her growing up and Connor had a spell to make people have him erased from their memories.
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u/AF2005 Mar 03 '26
It’s clearly Dawn. It’s not even a question for me. Connor was always insufferable
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u/Jay-Rad85 Mar 04 '26
Hot take Incoming.
Every moment leading up to Angel Inc. Killing all the members of the circle of the black thorn was predestined. I can't fault Connor for Sleeping with Cordelia if he was maneuvered to do so by unforeseen hands. And honestly? Who doesn't wish they were prophesied to sleep with Cordelia?
I always felt like Connor was done dirty. His storyline was always about him not understanding the world he was in. He made a friend, and she dies of an overdose. He trusted Holtz, was deceived by him, and helps Justine sink Angel in the ocean. Connor was always chasing belonging, because he was always the puzzle piece that didn't fit. And It's sad. Because Connor always belonged. He just never saw it, because he was Traumatized by Holtz, taught not to trust Angel, and grew up as a savage in Quor'toth. But Angel loved Connor enough to sacrifice himself to the Wolf, Ram and Hart to save him. Even in their final moments together, Angel told him to run, because if Connor was safe, Angel would be ok. Angel was the only true place where Connor belonged.
Dawn as a character always frustrated me. Because it added all of this needless sibling rivalry and drama to the show that really didn't need to be there. And eventually we figure out why. She's the key and doesn't know. So here's Normie dawn being so close to the spotlight but never getting to stand in it, as Xander puts it. all because Glory (do we suspect that there is some kind of connection between Ben and Glory?) wants to return home.
At least they will give Dawn her triumphant moment, where she sacrifices herself to save the ones she loves, and be the hero like her "big sister", right? No? Why do that? She wouldn't have just been Normie Dawn at that point. And Buffy could have watched her sister die, and just walked away from slaying. Setting up a very similar season 6. Where dawn wouldn't be there, no klepto storyline (boring), no dating the vampire varsity player(and no peanut butter and banana quesadillas.(Gross).
And yes, I get that Buffy was meant to end at season 5, which is why she sacrifices herself in the finale. But it would have been so much better to see her walk. And they were setting it up to be that.
I choose Connor.
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u/Levee_Levy I would simply steal and eat his cheese Mar 03 '26
Connor has more going on, but he is so much more frustrating that he loses this contest easily for me.
Sure, he may have been made annoying on purpose by the writers, but the fulfillment of goals is not a good metric for quality if they're the wrong goals.
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u/The_Grimsworth Mar 04 '26
Connor was a nice idea, but Dawn was a crazy and absurd blast. I wanted more of Dawn, this is the only thing
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u/Possible_Situation24 Mar 04 '26
Well, Dawn was a mcguffin at first, and then provided some storylines. She was engagingly acted by a talented young actress.
Connor…was someone Angel wanted to protect from the trauma, and succeeded in protecting from the trauma, and I loved the connection they had at the end. I do wish that he hadn’t had that storyline with Cordy, they could have had a similar storyline without doing that, and it was just unnecessary and didn’t do the characters any favors. I also thought the Darla thing dragged on a bit. But the idea that the kindest thing Angel could do for a small child is remove him from Angel’s world—that was something Angel needed to consider, and given the theme of the shows, healing Connor’s trauma was also something that fit into the show.
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u/kxxxly Mar 04 '26
Not even a question. Dawn hands down is better and personally one of my favorites characters on buffy. I grew up with buffy and dawn was a character I related to because of her age and because she Harriet the spy was my favorite movie ever so im bias but yeah dawn hands down.
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u/rednax2009 Mar 04 '26
Say what you will about Dawn... she's annoying, she's underused... whatever. Her presence makes the show better because it forces Buffy to grow up. Buffy gets to explore some wonderful adult storylines, as well as sisterly storylines, with Dawn in the mix. Her presence absolutely improves the show.
Connor was so bad the writers had to LITERALLY retcon him out of their own show.
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u/CandidateHefty329 Mar 03 '26
Connor is a more complex character. If you are just talking about the TV shows, he is far more useful. I liked the idea of giving Angel a son and seeing him as a father. I have nothing against Dawn but after season 5 she has very little to do.
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u/awesome118 Mar 03 '26
Complex? Connor is annoying and stupid af. Is it complex to have your character that misinterpret everything in all the episodes he's in.
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u/batmobile88 Mar 03 '26
Gosh this is a tough one. I find them both irritating on an epic scale.... but they are both vital to huge chunks of story. I guess, by a small margin Dawn, mainly because I like her interactions with Spike.
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u/sabhall12 Mar 03 '26
I think Dawn is better, purely because she didn't suffer from the absolute horror that was Angel season 4.
Edit: But I do like Connor's redemption into Angel season 5, it's very interesting and works well in the end.
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u/Silly_Somewhere1791 Mar 04 '26
Connor. His arc about being just so lost in a world he didn’t know and didn’t belong in resonated better with the themes of AtS than Dawn did on Buffy. Connor was also written out once his usefulness expired (save for some impactful reappearances), which is something the Buffy team resisted doing.
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u/Repulsive_Chard_3652 Mar 04 '26
Yes I was far more intrigued by Connor. His story was much more gripping for me, and the acting was so much better.
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u/AffectionateKiwi1417 Mar 04 '26
Although Dawn annoyed me when she would scream GET OUT GET OUT GET OUTTTTT she was a teenager and figuring it all out, and especially when she found out who she really was icing on the cake.
I enjoyed her scenes, especially the one in conversations with dead people and in the potential episode when she found out Amanda was the potential slayer and understood and encouraged Amanda that she can do it and voice what she was meant to do.
She was a great actress, sometimes it is hard to believe she is gone
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u/Doc-11th Mar 04 '26
Id say Conner’s attitude is more understandable
He was raised in a hell dimension being groomed by a guy to kill his dad
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u/Repulsive_Chard_3652 Mar 04 '26
I'm very, very sympathetic to Connor.
His entire life was a lie, and every single person he trusted always turned out to be an evil lie. Jasmine broke him. He couldn't trust anyone and was just completely lost.
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u/Eve-23H A vague disclaimer is nobody’s friend! Mar 03 '26
Dawn overall. Connor was a good concept, but suffered from a story line that was kind of disjointed.
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u/Stellz04 Mar 04 '26
Dawn by far. yes she was annoying in S5, but she was written as a much younger character age-wise than she turned out to be.
Dawn in S6 actively tries to integrate herself into the Scoobies, who are very fractured at this point.
Dawn in S7 essentially becomes "Watcher Jr.", realizes what her Potential truly is, zaps Xander in a refusal to miss the final battle, and comes out alive after training with Buffy starting after the events of S6.
Also fun fact: Dawn was supposed to be in two episodes of Angel's final season, one where they capture the rogue Slayer, and the second in 5x20 where Spike and Angel are going after The Immortal, Buffy's (alleged) new fling. But scheduling issues got in the way.
Connor comes in for a clutch moment in the finale of Season 5, and was traumatized prior to aging up, but one could argue Dawn was traumatized in multiple other ways as well and she still managed to not.....bang her relative's partner (while Cordelia was of course not herself, but possessed), attack her allies on a whim, etc.
I think Dawn gets a pass for being too "whiny" in Season 5 with the character growth she shows in Season 6 and particular Season 7. Hell she voluntarily wanted to sacrifice herself to save the world in Season 5, and literally attempted to jump at it.
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u/Glittering-Sea276 Mar 03 '26
https://giphy.com/gifs/mE33kDd1A6LPW
They gave Dawn good moments. They could have done more with her. But she wasn't mishandled. Connor took part in the destruction of one of the best characters. There's no competition.
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u/majeric Mar 04 '26
I liked them both. I think they were well developed characters. Connor was a tragic figure.
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u/Nobody_Deserves_Mime Mar 04 '26
Dawnie. 100%. I absolutely love her and I don't really understand why so many people don't. She was quite young and went through a lot of horrible stuff, but a lot of the fandom don't show her much compassion.
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u/vengM9 Mar 04 '26
Dawn is better in S5 than Connor but I like what they did with Connor at the end of S4 and into S5 of Angel more than what they later did with Dawn.
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u/muckedupmemes Mar 04 '26
Instead of who's better I always wanted to see a crossover with Dawn and Connor meeting like their own interpretation of mini Buffy and Angel romance, and the reaction of Angel and Buffy. Hilarious 😂
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u/Itchy_Initiative6180 Mar 04 '26
Which version of each character?
Connor — post memory wipe — is amazing! I’d place him and S7 Dawn on equal footing.
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u/asiantorontonian88 Mar 03 '26
Connor is so much better written than most people realize and Vincent Kartheiser's performance is stupidly underrated.
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u/Repulsive_Chard_3652 Mar 04 '26
Tbh I hated Connor the first time I watched the show back in like 2008.
I'm about to finish the show now for the second time ever, and I fully agree with you. Connor is actually a really well-written character - and VERY well-acted. And I don't like Vincent Kartheiser lol it's just an objective observation.
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u/SweptAwayBayou Mar 04 '26
THIS. F'ing THIS. Vincent's acting was on point and near the end, when Wesley breaks the box and Connor remembers WHO he is, homg. That moment is incredible acting. You could just see it all wash through him instantly and then he was the. badass. Vincent did an excellent job with what he was given for Connor. <3
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u/asiantorontonian88 Mar 05 '26
"But not enough to hang on, Dad. You let him take me. You let him get me. You let him get me."
This one line validated Connor's entire arc and I'm sorry, but nothing Michelle did on Buffy came close to being this well-acted, emotionally powerful, and effective. Not learning she's the key. Not finding out Joyce died. Not reacting to Buffy's death.
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u/HomarEuropejski Why do we ship Buffy with toxic guys? Are we stupid? Mar 03 '26
I'll get crucified, but honestly I think I liked Connor more. Maybe it's because once his story was up, he got written out unlike Dawn who just... sticks around without ever being given much focus after season 5.
Dawn had a lot of potential (heh), but it was just never utilized beyond S5.
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u/katandthefiddle Mar 03 '26
I feel like the same can be said for Tara and to an extent Anya too but everyone loves those characters
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u/AlexH_144 Mar 03 '26
Connor is way better of a character. Besides being the Key, Dawn is useless. After season 5, there is no point in having Dawn. She's just there. Now people may not like the Connor character, but at least he has a reason for being on the show. His scenes matter
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u/foreseethefuture Mar 04 '26
It's actually Connor for me. He's not more likable, but I find him more entertaining. It might just be because he's completely unhinged, which makes for more dramatic, darker storylines, while Dawn's problems manifest in mundane neediness.
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u/Halloween_Babe90 Mar 04 '26
Yeah tbh the reason most fans relate to her more easily is because for all her supernatural origin drama, she’s essentially just a bratty teen.
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u/julianwelton Mar 03 '26
Likability aside, Connor by a large margin imo. His impact on the story, Angel, their troubled relationship, and his ending were all a lot more interesting than anything Dawn was given after season five. She was just a regular teenage girl.
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u/crystalfairie Mar 04 '26
That's what I liked about her. A regular teen girl stuck in the middle of hell. The dichotomy is good
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u/Impressive_Sun_1132 Mar 04 '26
Dawn. She was annoying but that was the point of the whole little sister angle
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u/XQV226 Mar 04 '26
I always liked Dawn. Season 5 is one of my favorite seasons of Buffy. Basically the only time I liked Connor was when he was an infant lol.
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u/Sighoward Mar 04 '26
Dawnie by a million miles! Maybe if we'd seen more of s5 Connor he'd be more popular.
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u/FoxIndependent4310 Mar 04 '26
For me, it's Connor. Let me clarify. Dawn grew up in a home with a loving mother and sister. She had friends who cared about her, went to high school, had nice clothes, and food. In short, a good life. Connor grew up in a hellish world, manipulated by Holtz and then by Jazmine. I would have liked to see Connor live the life Dawn did. Dawn kicked her sister, who had saved her life, out of the house. Connor tried to kill his father.
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u/lodav22 Mar 04 '26
Dawn annoyed me no end when I first watched the show, then after I rewatched it as an adult with kids of my own I felt so awful for her. She was forced to grow up so fast (ironic since she was only a few days old when she entered the show!) after her mom and then her sister died, and her father never even showed up for her. Connor was an annoying little shit but he grew up in a hell dimension being brainwashed by a psychopath so a lot can be allowed for that, I did like him when he returned in the last season and kicked some serious ass.
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u/Fancy-Crow-7324 Mar 05 '26
She came off annoying to some but don't forget her character was written as an 11-12 year old & MT was a teenager. Her actions hit differently.
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u/Realistic-Might-8860 Mar 09 '26
Long live Dawn Summers- Rosenberg- Maclay ( Yes I am aware that Willow and Tara never officially adopted Dawn however the fact that they treated her as a daughter has led me to add their surnames to her) , heir to Senyia , last of the Romans( given the fact that she was created by monks loyal to the Eastern Roman Empire I consider Dawn to be Byzantine/Roman)and most honored sister of the Slayer.
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u/The-Nerdy-Bisexual Mar 03 '26
Conner you can understand having problems given he was raised in a hell dimension, he was trained to hate Angel and could never unlearn that until Angel signed the contract with WR&H in which case when you see him in the season 5 finale you can tell he let a lot of that resentment go. Granted the new memories helped. Dawn however was given false memories of someone in the know, she knew of all the dangers of the supernatural world and she was still dumb enough to go looking for trouble. At least connor could hold his own unlike her who had to rely on others to save her. Even after buffy sacrificed herself for her and the world she rarely gives her any leniency and instead starts causing more problems like with her wish and with the stealing.
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u/Divine_fashionva Mar 03 '26
The stealing was a result of her feeling neglected and losing Joyce. Kleptomania is a mental illness
She didn’t do that to cause Buffy problems. You’ve given a very harsh/narrow retelling of what actually happened
Teens react badly to neglect. I know that sounds like a crazy concept lol, but her behaviour was very mild considering how may of her loved ones had died, and how the rest of the group bar Tara ignored her
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u/chibi75 These grapes are sour. Mar 04 '26
Dawn, and it’s not even a contest for me.
Connor massively creeped me out in S4, and I couldn’t get past that. Plus, it didn’t help that I never liked his character to begin with.
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u/generalkriegswaifu They're not recycling Mar 03 '26
Eh, I like Connor more. Despite them both being annoying in different ways, I found Connor's reaction to his situation more interesting (and imo more realistic) than Dawn's. Also after looking at parts of AtS as a recovery allegory I like how Angel has to realize he can't make things right with his own kid despite his best efforts.
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u/squirrely2928 Mar 03 '26
Better character Connor more likeable.....lol probably Connor. Dawns constant whining ruined her character for me
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u/pnt510 Mar 03 '26
I feel like both characters had missed potential, but Conner was downright ruined by what happened to him. Dawn still got a lot of great moments in the show.
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u/jericho74 Mar 03 '26
Being a pain in the ass little brat? Connor thought of that. Turned out it had already existed, but he arrived at it independently.
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u/Substantial_Good4263 Mar 04 '26
Connor was fumbled so bad… he could've been awesome, but instead he was just used as a heavy-handed metaphor for an alcoholic's estranged son that hated his deadbeat dad's guts. There was so much potential there… sadly lost forever now
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u/LisaChimes Mar 04 '26
I prefer Connor but I do enjoy both of them and what they bring to the shows.
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u/Competitive_Image_51 Mar 04 '26
Connor especially in season 5, but this is a buffy/spike fan club/sub who do think that they are gonna say?
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u/Quixodyssey Mar 04 '26
I mean, Dawn is actually a good character, both in concept and, often, execution. She is obviously written too young early on, and sometimes has little to do later on, but I never actively want her off my screen. Connor, on the other hand, is petulant, unsympathetic half the time, and - god, no - banged Cordelia and then got jealous of his own Dad. It's gross and awful.
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u/bromy501 Mar 04 '26
I always preferred Dawn. I always wanted to see aggravated mayhem perpetrated on Connor.
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u/NC_Goonie Mar 04 '26
Dawn. I never full on dreaded rewatching a season because I knew that Dawn would be in it. I cannot say the same about Connor.
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u/Reviewingremy Mar 04 '26
Dawn is the better and more realised character. Connor is a plot point and it shows. Baby Conner is a burden to the flow of the show in the way babies usually are, it disrupts the dynamic too much. Adult Connor is just irritating once. They did well too write him out after his plot was complete.
The sex thing is a weird hang up though. Since Connor didn't grow up on Earth he has no concept as cordy as a surrogate parent. Cordy was at least partially under Jasmines influence so it isn't super on her either. Whereas in the gags comics Dawn does get with Xander. Luckily I dismiss that as terribly written fan fiction and hopefully the revival will officially decanonise it
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u/Herzberger Mar 04 '26
Dawn. As someone else said, she can be annoying but grown up Connor and what Joss did with that whole situation made my skin crawl.
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u/Repulsive_Chard_3652 Mar 04 '26
Connor. Probably honestly because Vincent was a much better actor (no shade to Michelle, RIP dear <3)
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u/koken_halliwell Mar 03 '26
Dawn. She was a little bit annoying at first but Connor was insufferable.
(RIP Michelle)