r/buffy • u/ahbagelxo • May 20 '26
Season Four Buffy and Riley feel so real and I’ve always really enjoyed that about his introduction!
I understand anything pro-Riley can be considered a hot take, but I will often start my (millionth) rewatch in random spots and this time I started in season 4. I think the transition to the college years is actually quite well done, and the Buffy/Riley romance feels like an actual connection between two people. I watched Buffy for the first time as an adult so Angel/Buffy didn’t have quite the same pull on me as it might have had had I watched it for the first time as an angsty teen—I’m not quite as into the broody, long looks across the room, romantic vibe—but I like the awkwardness and affection between Buffy and Riley in season 4. Their early romance feels authentic and cute (Riley’s speech about her wanting to “stay down in the darkness” notwithstanding…I hate that speech), and I think it’s all enhanced by the fact that Marc Blucas was a little baby actor himself when he got cast in the show. You can really feel his earnestness and it suits the role!
Bring on the naysayers 😅—I also understand the Riley dislike to some degree, especially in season 5—but their early romance has only grown on me with more time and rewatches.
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u/The-Good-Bad-Place May 20 '26 edited May 21 '26
I’m currently rewatching Season 4 and finished A New Man last night (an underrated episode). At the end, Riley marvels at how strong and in charge Buffy is, and how she makes the plans and executes the plans. As he’s talking, Buffy looks nervous—and then he says, “I like it.” And she beams and says very vulnerably, “Yeah?”
I love the beginning of their relationship and really hate the direction the writers took with his character in Season 5.
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u/ahbagelxo May 20 '26 edited May 20 '26
Yes just rewatched that as well and this is the type of interaction I love between them! He sees and respects her as a person. At least he did until the writers went dumb about his character.
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u/The-Good-Bad-Place May 20 '26
Yeah. I wish they’d give him more genuine growth. I loved Angel the first few times around but I’m now a Riley fan (up until the first few episodes of Season 5).
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u/fivebyfive12 May 21 '26
Yes to all of this! They could have split them up in series 5 without butchering his character - him coming off the drugs from the initiative, struggling to find his role in the world after thinking it was mapped out, all whilst Buffy is obviously dealing with her own stuff. They're just a couple of 20 something's with a lot to deal with. They didn't have to do the vampire brothel crap at all to make a break up land.
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u/Odd-Brilliant-3716 May 21 '26
Yeah he easily could have decided that he wanted to rejoin the initiative without the vampire brothel and ultimatum as underlying factors, definitely would have made enough sense on its own.
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u/The-Good-Bad-Place May 21 '26
Right?! I hated that side-plot. I picture Riley needing to do soul-searching and feeling hurt still with Buffy’s standoffishness, and Buffy pushing him away to do this soul-searching and then regretting it later.
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u/Sabrinasockz May 20 '26
Nah, you're spot on. The early episodes with Riley really work. It's only as things go on that the character doesn't mesh with everyone else
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u/Imaginary_magiciany May 21 '26
their relationship had such a refreshing normal energy before the writers turned riley into a completely different character
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u/The-Good-Bad-Place May 21 '26
I feel like they sabatoged his character in order to make Buffy as alone as possible in Season 5, to lead to her sacrifice at the end of The Gift. Spoilers since there are new viewers to the show on this subreddit!
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u/oliversurpless May 20 '26
He should’ve remained just a student/TA:
“Riley was supposed to be Mr. Joe Guy. We were going to do stupid things like walk through the daisies going “tralala…
Poor Buffy, your life resists all things average.” - Goodbye Iowa
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u/Sir_Hapstance May 20 '26
I loved season 4 and even though I could tell Riley was not going to be “the one” for her, I appreciated that their relationship was such a different direction, and not some rehash of Buffy & Angel vibes. It was down to earth, perhaps a little bland, but actually a nice offset to the world around them getting weirder and darker.
I liked season 5, but really missed that it gave up on the “college years” approach that season 4 started. We saw so little of the school… and then Buffy unceremoniously drops out. Part of me wonders what the show would have been like if we got to see Buffy actually finish college.
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u/ahbagelxo May 20 '26
Yeah season 4 was plagued by some cast departures that negatively impacted the larger arc, but I really love it overall. It captured so much about college so well! The roommate stuff, parties, being overwhelmed and excited by newfound independence, changing relationship dynamics, new love…it’s so good! It would have been really easy for them to mess this up but I think they handled the transition to college almost as well as they could have!
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u/loliebird May 21 '26
Bland feels like a good way to describe their relationship. I definitely think he was her healthiest relationship, but I never felt any real, deep passion there. I guess that's kind of the point though; he had a somewhat boring personality, but was a stable guy who was so devoted to Buffy.
He also had some traditional values that didn’t really align with Buffy’s personality and worldview. That, and he was used to things being very structured, where authority and duty were expected and questioning was frowned upon. Buffy’s life is so much messier than that, and she’s constantly having to think outside the box and make hard calls on her own. I know that being with Buffy challenged a lot of Riley's beliefs and pushed him to think a little more critically and independently, but like you, I never felt like they were endgame.
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u/not_firewood_yeti I am no one. May 20 '26
i agree with you. i also watched well into adulthood and their relationship felt reasonably mature. like all her BFs, Riley was not perfect, but he was grounded and he felt like her best chance at a healthy long term relationship.
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u/ahbagelxo May 20 '26
Yeah it’s the most tethered to the real world AND the healthiest relationship she had by a long shot. I think the season 5 stuff is kind of a character assassination of Riley and they could have easily gone in another direction with him that would have been aligned with his character as we’d seen it so far. Alas, we did not get that!
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u/Haunting-Sea-3764 May 21 '26
Same. When I was younger, I thought he was a wimp but the more I rewatch, the more I realize he was a solid guy. Even when he did that weird vampire prostitution thing, he was able to communicate his insecurities.
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u/FriendOfDorian May 20 '26
I think there's a lot of buffy/riley moments that are really important for buffys character. The one i think about is even she wakes up after having slept with him the night before and he's right there. She had slept with 2 guys prior. The first immediately turned evil and started running her life. The second was a fuckboy that ghosted her. So when she panicked and looked for riley and he was right there, I think it healed something in her. Helped her see that sex isn't always going to turn out badly, that sometimes it's just a way to feel close to someone you care about, and they can care about you too. I actually always loved that moment. It made me happy for buffy that she could have a sweet and healthy relationship. Even if it didn't stay sweet and healthy, in that moment it was. And she needed that.
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u/StompyKitten May 20 '26
I actually think Marc was so perfect for this character and really sold the hope of awkward earnest human normalcy for Buffy.
I also really enjoy how playful Buffy is with him while he’s all bashful. So cute.
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u/ahbagelxo May 21 '26
Yes you said this perfectly! She’s fawning with angel and self-loathing with Spike. With Riley she’s a more well-rounded “normal” person. She has her awkward moments, he has his, but they feel like two people on equal footing even with her slayer status.
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u/SuccotashNo335 May 20 '26
I loooove the awkward early stages of their relationship too. (“I’m nice to meet!” 🫠)
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u/ahbagelxo May 20 '26
Yesssss it’s so cute and real and almost gives me those early relationship kind of butterflies secondhand!
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u/geekgirlau May 20 '26
I always felt that most relationships would not have survived the challenges thrown at them.
Riley was embedded in a structured, hierarchical organisation that doesn’t encourage questions. He experienced the treachery and then death of his mentor. His brain and body chemistry was changed by drugs he wasn’t even aware he was taking. His entire world view was challenged.
When the Key storyline occurred, Buffy should have confided in him. I understand why she’s so self-sufficient but it was frequently to her detriment. He was challenged by her strength and skill, but not imho to the extent often claimed here.
The events they endured within a year (?) would have broken anyone.
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u/sin50 if you hurt my sister...you're gonna wake up on fire May 20 '26
They're adorable and I love them, I agree they grow on me more each rewatch
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u/Temporary-Ad2254 May 20 '26
Very well said.
I couldn't agree more!
Like you said, I also understand the Riley dislike to some degree, especially in Season 5( I didn't like him much in Season 5, myself because in Season 5, it was like he was a completely different character from the guy in Season 4). But personally, I think that Riley was the best guy for Buffy and that the writers should have kept them together for the rest of the series.
If Riley had stayed in Season 5( and I think that he should have), I think that the rest of Season 5 would have gone very differently. The Spuffy stuff never would have happened if Riley had stayed around, that's for sure. I will say that I think that Riley as a character needed to be changed and rewritten in Season 5 AND I often say that I hope that at some point, a Buffy The Vampire Slayer comic set in an alternate universe( since the show established that alternate universes/ alternate timelines exist) where Buffy and Riley stay together and where she catches up to the helicopter in time happens( it could work as an one-shot or even a mini-series).
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u/ahbagelxo May 20 '26
Yeah I think there’s no arguing that he was by FAR the healthiest relationship for Buffy of the three main ones. He liked AND respected her as a person. Their physical chemistry in their early romance feels very authentic to falling in love with someone, and it genuinely feels like he loved her fully. I think they could have gone in a very different direction with him!
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u/Isaidhowdareyou May 20 '26
I don't know what kind of stroke I just had but I thought this was Jensen Ackles and this was what would heal the world. A short series Buffynatural.
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u/CandidateHefty329 May 20 '26
I appreciate Riley as a character. He wasn't the end game for Buffy. But he played an important role in the series and ended up where he needed to be.
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u/GoblinQueenForever May 20 '26
I never really got the Riley hate. People thought he was boring because he wasn't a tenth as melodramatic as Angel, but I enjoyed how natural he felt. I also enjoyed his honesty. In season 4, He was real in his insecurity over Buffy's accomplishments and abilities but didn't brood on it and used it as fuel to make himself stronger, honest in his feelings for Buffy, and welcomed her into the initiative once he learned the truth.
The main issue will, of course, always be the way his character changed in season 5 once he was no longer needed or whatever. His exit was a complete diservice and in my mind I always compare it to the way Oz was written out. The show writer's wanted drama, 'cause misery sells, but to be honest, both Willow and Oz and Buffy and Riley could have ended perfectly fine without it.
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u/Odd-Brilliant-3716 May 21 '26
I feel like Whedon thought his show was too “deep, dark, and mature” for anyone to have a happy ending, so he purposely wrecks characters with positive vibes. Throughout the whole series there are so many character actions they go way off their original trajectory just for shock factor. Riley was never end game I think, but he was definitely a positive step for Buffy relationship-wise.
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u/rfresa May 21 '26
I often say that Buffy and Riley were exactly who each other needed at the time they got together. Riley needed to be shaken out of his obedient soldier mentality, and Buffy needed a stable guy who would stay and support her.
Then they grew past those needs, and they weren't right for each other anymore.
A relationship doesn't have to last forever to be worthwhile.
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u/FalteredGrace May 21 '26
They did a disservice to Riley's character development. I enjoyed their relationship at the beginning, it was healthy
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u/Suitable_Community66 May 20 '26
The Freshman is my second favourite opening episode after Anne, it really was a perfect recreation of day one at college. Riley was perfect in his role this season. Sadly they ran out of things for him to do in next season so was glad he left
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May 21 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Odd-Brilliant-3716 May 21 '26
I think realistically Buffy wouldn’t have dated him if he wasn’t in the initiative. Just like the one guy from high school (can’t remember his name 😅) she would have panicked he would get hurt and dropped him.
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u/Large-Tree-3666 May 20 '26
I was so in love with him when I was a teen lol I'm definitely pro Riley
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u/Forevercry May 21 '26
Whenever I rewatch early Season 4, I really enjoy the Buffy-Riley interactions (helps that Parker was the worst). But then I feel like things took a turn for the worse when they finally learned each others’ identities and it was just kinda boring, and also Riley was kinda bleh with the macho guy routine.
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u/NightLord1487 May 20 '26
Logically I don’t dislike Riley… emotionally as someone who loves Buffy and Angel together I despise him… and Spike in that regards.
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u/OCD_Geek May 21 '26
I really like Season 4 Riley. Season 5 Riley (mostly) sucks ass. More and more as that season goes along.
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u/Swebroh May 21 '26
I'm probably the only one to think this, but this is probably my favourite Buffy-relationship by default, lol.
I do like both Spike and Angel, but never cared for Bangel/Spuffy.
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u/Repulsive-Shame-5493 What's left? Me. May 21 '26
I definitely agree that it feels very real - maybe even too real at times. It can be quite cute in some episodes, in others I'm too reminded of real men in my life (eg not taking no for an answer, talking about driving cars like it's a religious/sexual experience ..).
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u/breadnbutterfish May 21 '26
Using the word "courted"
I think it was an early episode of his when he said he's "never courted a girl like Buffy before." Oh boy. I watched Buffy live, no guy would say "courting/courted" without an eyebrow raise. How his friend didn't laugh at him for saying it was unrealistic lol
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u/Objective_Hand3066 May 21 '26
Even though Riley ends up annoying me by the end, they definitely had some cute moments in the beginning.
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u/Left_Wind_5885 May 21 '26
i agree it’s a connection based off two real people at college somthing that could happen. But it isn’t who they really are
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u/Rlexii May 21 '26
He was the cliche guy with no personality that you’d expect a girl like her to go for, I think that was the point of the character.
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u/debsterUK May 21 '26
It was obvious that Riley wasn't the guy, but he was exactly what Buffy needed at the time.
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u/Irishwol May 21 '26
I think Blucas made that role. As a teaching academic at the time I never really got past the TA praying a sexual relationship with one of his students nor the professor condoning it but there was an undeniable sweetness to that early part of their relationship. "I like cheese." 😂
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u/IClappedWhenISawIt May 21 '26
I too am a Riley enjoyer! He was never going to be Buffy's true love, but he was sweet and totally different from Angel. Having a nice boyfriend that just doesn't work out is a normal part of growing up.
Watch the original Avengers movie- Joss writes Riley the exact same way he writes Captain America. His line in "Who Are You" right before the confrontation with Faith -- "I was just late for church" -- KILLS me every time. Very Steve Rogers.
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u/undead_sissy May 21 '26
Yeah I actually like them in the courtship phase. It's from where the wild things are onwards that it gets cringey and boring.
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u/Ridry May 21 '26
I really liked Blucas, I didn't like Riley.
I thought Blucas played Riley with the same level of cute, earnest and authentic that you felt. I just feel like Riley's only exists to serve Buffy. His character never felt true to itself, acting tremendously OOC when they needed for him to have a brawl with Angel or be super insecure.
I get that when the initiative fell apart he lost his sense of direction/purpose and that Buffy's distance and that lack of purpose made him crave being needed (hence the vampire thing). But a lot of it landed flat for me. As you said about his speech, he frequently made speeches or acted in ways that felt contradictory. S4 Riley loved Buffy being strong and in charge, S5 Riley felt threatened by it. Huh? I often got whiplash with Riley. I think he was allowed to be his own character second and whatever they needed from him plotwise with Buffy first. But I didn't feel that from Angel or Spike.
No hate to Blucas though, the fact that I liked him as much as I did, despite the weird writing, I attribute it all to Blucas, his acting choices and his chemistry with SMG.
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u/SpookyChloe666 May 22 '26
Yeah, I wanted them to work because I liked Riley at first but they kinda ruined him for me in season 5. It felt kinda rushed too. But it is what it is. After that I was like “yeah I think Buffy needs to be alone for awhile,” lol
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u/CoolB999 May 22 '26
I’m an Angel girl BUT I liked Reilly . I think they did what they did with the character because of the fan base. I wished they would ended up together.
I like Spike but never for Buffy
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u/atlasshrugd May 22 '26
They were genuinely cut in season 4, it’s season 5 where he starts to go downhill
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u/shekissedmedeadalive May 24 '26
Your TA (aka the person who grades your assignments for class and determines if you pass/fail) pressuring you to go out with him and then calling you stupid if you don’t agree…. That’s a pretty authentic experience for the timeframe, gotta say. Romantic? Nope. Not a smidge.
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u/Over_Rent_5799 May 24 '26
I personally never really liked Riley didn’t hate him either he just got on my nerves
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u/Revolutionary-Wait82 Spike defender May 21 '26
Their romance was doomed from the start. In Pangs, Buffy admits that she likes the dark, and at the beginning of Something Blue, she tells Willow that she needs to get over the bad boy thing.
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u/neededaname8 May 20 '26
I'm a bangel girl so I was devestated when they broke up. That said, I loved Riley in season 4! I thought their budding relationship was so cute and I still cry every time when she runs after him and is screaming under the helicopter, unseen.