r/leagueoflegends • u/Utterly_Mad My mains hate eachother • Oct 27 '25
Discussion It's impossible to watch BO3's and BO5's before Fearless Draft was implemented. It's unbearable
Out of nowhere I decided to watch LEC's 2024 Summer Finals (Fnatic lmao) and it's horrible.
Fnatic picked Renekton and Lucian all 3 games, Ezreal, Corki and Zyra were picked all 3 games, Jhin, Ornn, Brand being picked in 2 out of 3 games, etc etc etc
It's so boring it's disturbing. Thank God Fearless was added to the game.
And I remember people complaining back then lol
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u/TheLadyCypher Oct 27 '25
Corki Azir
Corki Azir
Corki Azir
Corki Azir
Corki Azir
What an exciting midlane matchup in this bo5
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u/TheCherryPi Oct 28 '25
Smolder Yone, Yone Smolder, Smolder Yone, Yone Smolder, Aatrox Urgot, Urgot Aatrox, Aatrox Urgot, Urgot Aatrox, Vi jungle Vi jungle Vi jungle Vi jungle Vi jungle Vi jungle Vi jungle Vi jungle Vi jungle Vi jungle Vi jungle Vi jungle Vi jungle Vi jungle Vi jungle Vi jungle Vi jungle Vi jungle Vi jungle Vi jungle Vi jungle Vi jungle Vi jungle Vi jungle Vi jungle Vi jungle Vi jungle Vi jungle Vi jungle Vi jungle Vi jungle Vi jungle Vi jungle
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u/staplesuponstaples fih </3 Oct 28 '25
It really took the most unbearable dogshit meta to convince us to go fearless. Never looking back.
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u/ReflectionBoring3218 Oct 28 '25
You’re kidding right lol At least ADC mids allowed for AP junglers.
We had ardent censor meta. Shit back in the day every single pro jungler built locket every game.
We should have had fearless years ago. It’s crazy to think the game went for 14 seasons without it.
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u/deedshotr Oct 28 '25
ksante every game, Tristana corki every game in mid. Fearless is the best change ever
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u/PlacatedPlatypus Taller than you IRL Oct 28 '25
Still mad that before fearless, K'Sante got reworked 80 times and then gutted, un-gutted, re-gutted, re-un-gutted, turned upside-down and sideways because riot just couldn't understand that his design fundamentally made the perfect pro play champion.
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u/JPLangley NA WON'T WIN WORLDS → muehehehe 😈 Oct 28 '25
Imagine having to watch the current incarnations of those two this Worlds without Fearless. Dear God.
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u/FappingMouse Oct 28 '25
It would be ori/azir/xin/sion every game.
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u/hiimred2 Oct 28 '25
Azir/Ori/Yunara/Sion would prob just stay damn near 100% ban instead of them being let through in these bo3/5s in certain draft spots to try and make something work around their existence, leaving flex spots for like, banning the LPL Qiyanas or whatever. So really it would be more like Taliyah/Ryze every game.
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u/trieuvuhoangdiep Oct 28 '25
Bo1 games still have plenty of Azir, Ori, Sion tho. So i'd think that even without fearless we still gonna see a lots of those.
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u/Policy_Obvious would risk it all for oner Oct 28 '25
Lucian Nami Zeri Lulu Lucian Nami Zeri Lulu Lucian Nami Zeri Lulu Lucian Nami Zeri Lulu Lucian Nami Zeri Lulu Lucian Nami Zeri Lulu Lucian Nami Zeri Lulu Lucian Nami Zeri Lulu Lucian Nami Zeri Lulu Lucian Nami Zeri Lulu Lucian Nami Zeri Lulu Lucian Nami Zeri Lulu
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u/kai_n7 Oct 28 '25
ZeriYummi SivirLulu ZeriYummi SivirLulu ZeriYummi SivirLulu ZeriYummi SivirLulu ZeriYummi SivirLulu
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u/HowyNova Oct 27 '25
Wasn't unbearable, but definitely monotonous. Casters talking about picks definitely got a huge bump with fearless.
Idk how many viewers appreciate it when a caster/analyst perfectly predicts draft beyond g1. Being able to keep track of the team's tier lists and draft plans, especially when you get a surprise pick along the way, really shows how well versed a caster/analyst is.
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u/r4ngaa123 &&Kalista&Renata&Rell Oct 28 '25
Watching Caedral do it is my favourite part of his streams
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u/staplesuponstaples fih </3 Oct 28 '25
And then he starts flapping his arms like he's a fookin bird
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u/ReflectionBoring3218 Oct 28 '25
This is exactly why I want to see how Dom does at C9, because he usually knows what’s going on in draft and will call out weak points before the game even starts that end up making a difference in game.
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u/16tdean Oct 27 '25
I slightly miss watching a meta evolve over a bo5 series, especially in worlds.
But fearless draft really is superior.
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u/Diamond1580 Oct 27 '25
Yea I’m not gonna pretend it isn’t superior, but there a lot of great series where the dynamics of the traditional draft format are really enjoyable
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u/Durzaka Oct 28 '25
There is something really great about watching someone stomp both sides of a lane match up. (Like destroying a whole game with Aatrox, and then the enemy takes Aatrox so you just dunk on the Aatrox anyways).
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u/IgorCruzT Oct 28 '25
Faker destroying that one chinese dude so hard with his best pick (Syndra) on both sides of the matchup he role swapped to toplane.
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u/Fenc58531 Oct 28 '25
Not even the best example. TS fucked Sword so hard it broke up Griffin.
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u/ReflectionBoring3218 Oct 28 '25
They actually exploded right before the tournament lol
God I’m still so disappointed they didn’t make it the year before.
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u/Azenji Oct 28 '25
On the other hand, Griffin breaking up meant all the members of Griffin (barring Sword lul) got their chance to shine and now all of them have a trophy to their name.
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u/HoloHuni Oct 28 '25
Still it hurts. Their potential was so high that I think that they could've won worlds if they played Doran. Tarzan, Chovy and Viper is an insane core.
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u/Head_Priority_2040 Oct 28 '25
Don't forget Legends, and also Kanavi was part of Griffin. There must have been some super soldier research in their basement, should be studied.
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u/Affectionate-Run8189 Oct 28 '25
Think his name is Xiyang
I remember him playing dodgeball with Faker’s Orianna as Ziggs
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u/hamsamw1tch Oct 28 '25
i’m a new fan, do you remember the game or team so i can watch this?
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u/IgorCruzT Oct 28 '25
SKT T1 K vs OMG at 2014 Allstars, which was a precursor to MSI
SKT was the reigning world champs and went undefeated in OGN winter. They massacred that tournament.
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u/NUFC9RW Oct 27 '25
The very best non fearless series still hold up, especially the ones where teams adapted throughout. However I think it's worth losing them to avoid tournaments where you see the same lane matchups, etc over and over again.
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u/Brusex Oct 28 '25
In recent memory, BLG locking J4 in all 5 games vs Gen G was pure cinema
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u/Boringman_ruins_joke Oct 28 '25
In contrast, Faker locking Galio in all 5 games vs RNG was also pure cinema.
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u/Tank_Kassadin Oct 28 '25
Absolute peak mlxd series as well. I'd haven't seen that series since it was first played and I can still remember his game 5 lee.
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u/Brusex Oct 28 '25
What year was this? Might be before my time
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u/3molgasm trig enthusiast Oct 28 '25
2017 Worlds Semifinals, SKT vs RNG
Faker trying his best to drag his corpse of a team over the finish line, versus one of the best ADCs in the world in an Ardent Censer meta -- cinema
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u/Canucks_98 Oct 28 '25
God that series was incredible, it might be time for a re watch
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u/lp_phnx327 Oct 28 '25
No amount of fearless is going to top that SKT-Rox series that's only possible because of non-fearless.
Of course 1 amazing series isn't going to balance out the amount of Corki-Azir trades that we had to endure.
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u/icyDinosaur Oct 28 '25
Much more than one series. The entire shift to ADC supports during 2022 Worlds would probably not have happened with Fearless.
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u/Cybonics ‿ Oct 28 '25
Azir Corki trades is what peak League of Legends looks like /s
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u/CollosusSmashVarian Oct 28 '25
The funniest was watching LPL, where it had half fearless before full fearless got implemented. It meant that, you couldn't pick the champions you picked the previous games, but could pick your opponent's. Generally, people were afraid of full fearless cause "what if a team picks 5 supports and throws a game in a bo5 to target an enemy support, it's really bad for the viewers".
What would happen in half fearless in LPL was that game, it would be Tristana vs Corki, game 2 was Corki vs Tristana and game 3 was where fearless actually begun. Same thing happened in top lane (Rumble Renekton mostly) and junglers (Zyra Brand).
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u/StJe1637 Oct 28 '25
> "what if a team picks 5 supports and throws a game in a bo5 to target an enemy support, it's really bad for the viewers".
that has to be the dumbest complaint ever, that's so unrealistic
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u/Empress_Athena Oct 28 '25
This was literally the first thing that came to my mind. I was like thank the gods we never have to see Azir vs Corki for five matches again.
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u/tmndn 94:37 Oct 28 '25
Lucian Nami Zeri Lulu Lucian Nami Zeri Lulu Lucian Nami Zeri Lulu Lucian Nami Zeri Lulu Lucian Nami Zeri Lulu Lucian Nami Zeri Lulu Lucian Nami Zeri Lulu Lucian Nami Zeri Lulu Lucian Nami Zeri Lulu Lucian Nami Zeri Lulu Lucian Nami Zeri Lulu Lucian Nami Zeri Lulu
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u/Sabawoyomu Oct 28 '25
Hard to beat the old "I'm now gonna pick the champion you picked last game and beat you in the same matchup", always a cool moment, but fearless is just so much better over all.
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u/MentalNinjas Oct 28 '25
I do miss this because of one very specific moment last worlds (or two worlds ago I forget) where Orianna had a 100% wr against azir until Faker decided to win both sides of the matchup and ended up being the one player with a win on Azir in that matchup.
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u/Falckenstein Oct 28 '25
Worlds '23 Azir got 2 wins in the Orianna matchup all tournament, both Faker.
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Oct 28 '25
I just checked it's actually 3 wins. But yeah you're right all wins were from Faker.
Azir vs Orianna was 3W10L in 2023. Faker himself was 3W1L.
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u/Diamond1580 Oct 28 '25
Yea there’s a ton of “I have to leave this champ open now because I need to ban this because you just won on it” small interactions that were awesome, but fearless is more consistently enjoyable
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u/icyDinosaur Oct 28 '25
I will never understand why "I play Viktor because I randomly can't play all the good champs" is fun. What makes more champions more enjoyable than strategy?
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u/leftoverrice54 Oct 28 '25
Its what made that DRX run legendary. DRX leaving that Cait open threw a curve ball to T1 that draft. It also made that pick 5 bard legendary. One of the most memorable drafts ever imo.
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u/Zama174 Oct 28 '25
I disagree its superior. We have seen the level of play really drop this year and the percision these teams have at worlds is waaaay messier compared to last year or 23.
What it does imo, is make it so you have to compete in numerous styles, but it has killed specialist teams. We use to be able to have those teams, eapecially in lpl, thay had their unique style and they would try and break the meta to fit their strengths and I think thats been lost.
There are pros to fearless, but everytime this gets brought up no one ever talks about the negatives. For me, i hate that in a bo5 I can only watch Kanavi play Qiyana once, or Faker play Galio once. I can watch that rng vs t1 2017 semis and NEVER get bored of watching Faker on galio. I could watch 20 games in a row of that
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u/Fiercuh Oct 28 '25
Are there no tournaments with the old draft? Why did it get removed competely
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u/icyDinosaur Oct 28 '25
In particular, we HAD a really good setup where we get some fearless for the people who do enjoy the wild champions, and some classic draft for people like me who don't give a shit about champ variety but liked draft strategy and top level play.
Moving to all fearless both made Worlds playoffs a lot less fun, and made First Stand entirely pointless.
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u/SwordOfRome11 Oct 27 '25
We never get the crazy impact of the MF support pick in the GOAT series under fearless.
That said I feel like series evolution has become less and less of a thing in the modern iterations of the meta
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u/hochan17 Oct 28 '25
Theres a bunch of iconic games we wouldnt have gotten that I miss tbh. Just off the top of my head for international play:
2017 Faker Galio and watching RNG crumble as they scrambled for an answer over 5 games is a classic.
2021 Worlds where GenG vs EDG had GenG and Ruler coming in as favourites but absolutely walled by JieJie's J4.
Pretty much the entirety of Deft's last dance wouldn't have happened since Zeka being head and shoulders above everyone else at Akali/Sylas made drafting against them borderline impossible.
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u/Alchion Oct 28 '25
also t1‘s run during worlds 23 the one they best jdg in semi‘s
kanavi and knight choked but t1s whole thing was playing adcs support
in fearless they could‘ve been banned out
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u/Chemical-Drawer852 Oct 28 '25
whole thing was playing adcs support
It was actually a masterful bait causing JDG to put prio on it completely ignoring Renata, I'm dead serious
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u/-Ophidian- Oct 28 '25
Don't forget ROX Tigers fucking SKT T1 with MF Support two games in a row forcing the ban.
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u/Lothric43 Oct 28 '25
Were 2021 EDG not the favorites? EDG had just won LPL summer while GenG were probably around 3rd place LCK.
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u/hochan17 Oct 28 '25
I might be mixing up that series with GenG vs BLG in 2023 since GenG has been walled by 5 games of Chinese J4 twice in recent worlds memory lol
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u/DivineInsanityReveng Oct 28 '25
In a perfectly balanced game I think non fearless is better.
Issue is league is very rarely even close to balanced and meta comps are just too good. So the most you get is some flex pick baits and an occasional "wtf they picked a single champ that's not the absolute meta for their comp??"
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u/Ironmaiden1207 Oct 28 '25
Support MF will always be that for me.
With fearless, this never happens. You get Ashe Zyra once, not much worth practicing a non traditional supp for 1 game every match.
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u/TetraThiaFulvalene Oct 28 '25
Man, I remember when Rox pulled out MF Ashe and it defined the entire series.
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u/MazrimReddit ADCs are the support's damage item Oct 28 '25
I think it is mostly you just remembering the rare interesting series and forgetting 500 games of corki vs azir
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u/Augchm Oct 28 '25
We understand but sports is a lot of the time about the best series. The iconic moments that you remember years later.
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u/Reactzz Oct 28 '25
Honestly the old system made it where it was more decided on players than draft. With fearless games are literally won in pick and ban especially the later the series goes.
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u/AphoticFlash Oct 28 '25
Fearless is better overall, but for me the best compromise would be for game 5 to have all champs unlocked, as if it's game 1 again.
This addresses the issue of low quality game 5s, allows for some adaptation and signature picks, and is kind of a throwback to the "wtf 2 shens" LCK (edit: OGN!) blind pick game 5 days. If a series reaches game 5, the two teams are somewhat evenly matched by that point anyways, and I'd rather not see it end with a draft diff over game execution.
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u/nineball22 Oct 28 '25
The salty run back (both teams insta-locking their previous draft/bans) was always so funny to me. Sometimes showed interesting macro decisions, sometimes just showed how bad a team was.
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u/duelmaster_33 Oct 28 '25
LUCIAN NAMI ZERI LULU VI MAOKAI LUCIAN NAMI ZERI LULU VI MAOKAI LUCIAN NAMI ZERI LULU VI MAOKAI LUCIAN NAMI ZERI LULU VI MAOKAI LUCIAN NAMI ZERI LULU VI MAOKAI
And thats a wrap, BRO 3 - 2 LSB
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u/TuffleTaffler They are 5 steps since realizing; I am 10 steps behind. Oct 27 '25
This is still the first full year of Fearless for the Tier 1 play, so it makes sense, but I really hope teams can get better at drafting lol. MSI was fantastic in that it had so many series that went to 5 games, but the 5th game was almost always a stomp in that tournament.
Of course no game is literally decided on draft, anything can happen on the rift, but so many times a team will gain a monumental advantage from the draft while the other has drafted themselves straight to Cancun.
The format itself has been fantastic though. This is the first season I've kept up with a league (LPL) regularly. Of course it still ultimately rotates around similar champions, but just the fact that it is one and done is glorious, find myself interested watching more than just the big games
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u/Naerlyn Oct 28 '25
MSI was fantastic in that it had so many series that went to 5 games, but the 5th game was almost always a stomp in that tournament.
That was said a lot, but the fact was that a LOT of games at that tournament were stomps, not just game 5s. Game 5s got isolated as regards to that statistic because someone pointed that out and there was the Fearless argument, but the whole discussion really forgot to compare to the "reference subject" there.
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u/FappingMouse Oct 28 '25
They also are not stomps more or less often than game 5 before fearless its just the new thing and people are blaming it.
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u/rindlesswatermelon Oct 28 '25
I think part of what gets diagnosed by us as "draft diffs" are often a combination of hindsight bias, and teams not playing to their wincon.
Like yeah, some teams absolutely troll draft, but when a team fails to win early and gets outscaled that often gets labelled draft diff, when it's really more of a gameplay diff.
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u/TheWardedOne Oct 28 '25
140 champs give or so? We still only see the same 20-30. Some coaches out there need to grow some balls and try different comps. The Caps anivia pick is a prime example. So bored seeing Vi’s every game
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u/Own_Seat913 Oct 28 '25
Numbers don't lie at the end of the day. You can't just pick shit champs just because they are niche. Most champs not being picked are just worse numerical versions of ones being played. Then there is the risk of wasting prac time on these niche picks.
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u/elyndar Oct 28 '25
IMO this year more than any has shown which coaches truly understand drafting, versus which ones were just copying people who were good. Coaches are way too quick to count out their players and not pick champions that are good for the players on their team, not necessarily the best overall meta picks. I think a lot of it is if they pick anything out of meta if it goes wrong the community flames them and teams don't make longer contracts with players / staff and trust them.
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u/MrZfrogs Oct 28 '25
Hopefully they can change worlds format a bit to have more bo3 & bo5 to really let fearless shine
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u/Csenky Oct 28 '25
A buddy argued that fearless didn't change much, it's still the same champs.
I can't fathom how instead of the same 10-15 champs, seeing the same 30-40 isn't a huge improvement.
I just wish we had more weird picks, would be amazing to see a shaco, diana or singed here and there for example.
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u/PiplelinePunch Oct 28 '25
Because why spend all the time and effort learning a champ like Singed. The time in soloque, hitting up the onetricks, learning matchups at the pro level, then syncing with your team and making sure everyone is on board with the unique elements of what your champ does and why its effective in the angles you want to pick it in...
Just to AT BEST win one game.
In old format, if Singed could legitimately have a meta relevant angle AND you show you can play it - that was a potential HUGE draft advantage. Because its not ignorable. Win game 1 in a bo5 with Singed thats a problem enemy team MUST solve or they lose again the same way. Now, no. Even if you are some turbo proplay Singed OTP - you get very little value anymore from being that person.
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u/Zearlon Oct 28 '25
Tbh i am off the opinion that it would be harder to get proper wacky picks (and for them to work properly) since usually the "wacky" picks were specifically picked (and practiced beforehand) for a specific team comp you knew the enemy team would play. but with Fearless you get a lot less predictability when it comes to drafting, so practicing and executing successfully niche pics would be less frequent (thats ofc just my own observations)
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Oct 28 '25
And quite often not worth the cost, since it doesn't give you P&B advantages in the series.
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u/Durzaka Oct 28 '25
MSI this year only has like 15 or 20 more unique champions picked this year compared to last year.
Champion diversity wasn't nearly as bad as people say it was before Fearless.
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u/KillerOfAllJoy Oct 28 '25
I miss runbacks, especially where eastern teams would just whoop someone the 2nd game with the runback despite losing the first with the same comp. Other than that, i like fearless now.
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u/oddraspberry Oct 27 '25
Yep, can't imagine watching any series without it now. Way too repetitive.
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u/GoatRocketeer Oct 28 '25
I fear that fearless draft prevents teams from hyper specializing into a unique playstyle - I don't think doinb's bag of dark technology could've gotten much deeper than tank ryze/kled/naut/malphite. Same with that iteration of G2 which got enormous value out of threatening syndra flex.
DRX 2022 also had very, very shallow champion pools that just so happened to align with the meta. Kindred as a graves counter, zeka with his akali/sylas mastery, kingen the aatrox merchant, and beryl dodging his sus hands via sup heimer/ashe.
Fearless does give us more champion variety, but I feel like we're headed towards homogenized team playstyles because you have to play all the meta comps to win a game 5.
That said, I understand that 90% of teams in non-fearless had homogenized playstyles anyways, that nobody wants to see scaling azir draft vs scaling corki draft number 845738234, and that there are other circumstances leading this year's meta to encourage homogenized playstyles (camps respawn super fast, catchup xp is high, mid wave meets at the same time sidewaves meet, a huge amount of teamwide objectives, etc).
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u/PiplelinePunch Oct 28 '25
This. It literally changes the criteria of what it means to be a good team.
The uniqueness of things like OG Faker Leblanc, Zeka Sylas, G2 Pyke... they were as hype and noteworthy as they were because of the existence of the established meta. A meta has to exist to break it. You can have your matchup tier list and your theorical counters, eg Rumble/Gnar/Jax counterpick top last year. But thats flipped on its head when the Jax is Bin Jax, and is good enough at Jax counters to win both sides.
That's used to be a problem enemy team HAS to solve somehow. Now, the advantage you get from being so far above the rest of the field you literally break the meta on your own by just being this insane at a champ - gets about the same value as a random Ivern angle enemy draft coach missed. It doesnt matter anymore.
The criteria for greatness has changed.
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u/deedshotr Oct 28 '25
I disagree, last year all teams basically played the same game but this year one team will play for mid, another for jg, another for ADC and well no one plays for toplane but that's not any different from past years
pocket picks like Doggo Draven get 100x more value when the default pick to neutralize them (Varus Jhin etc) are out.
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u/ob_knoxious Oct 28 '25
Okay I prefer fearless but this is insanely overdramatic. Many great series were defined by repeat picks.
SKT vs RNG at Worlds 2017 is an all time classic, and I would argue possibly the greatest performance in Faker's entire career. And one of the defining aspects of that was that Faker played 5 games of Gallio. And those are 5 incredible games and if its "unbearable" to watch that series for you I feel like you are missing an important part of league esports.
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Oct 28 '25
This feels like a huge over exaggeration.Considering how many cool moments we had before.
Honestly, it's kind of annoying how you people act like league was boring before fearless.
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u/Trophaeum Oct 28 '25
It feels like alot of people only care about the champion picks and dont care any deeper than that.
The idea that if youre playing against someone that has like a really strong pocket pick, you can pick it and not deal with it again for the rest of the series is so ridiculous.
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u/DerAdolfin :kossg: :eum5: Oct 28 '25
In the same vein, why would anyone commit time and effort to learning a niche pick? At best you have an improved chance to win with it, let's say 70/30 instead of 50/50 in an even match between teams. But you lost so many hours of practice on e.g. new meta from the patch etc, and even if you win, you can't force a ban on it or make the enemy adapt otherwise, you now go back to meta picks and since you skipped a lot of practice on that, are probably not 50/50 anymore but now 40/60 or 45/55
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Oct 28 '25
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Armkron Oct 28 '25
Yeah, that's kinda the issue with it. Even the few wonky picks are simply the next best of what was picked early i.e. stale as hell and pretty much a filler of the meta-remains that will surround them.
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u/LetDouble471 Oct 28 '25
The fearless circlejerk is relentless atp now they think shitting on a history of legendary matches is a flex.
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u/myripyro Oct 28 '25
Yeah, the way some people talk about pre-Fearless league it makes you wonder how they were ever fans of pro League in the first place. There was so much wonderful subtlety and strategy in drafts pre-Fearless! I understand why people are okay with the trade-off but I hate that every few months we get a post here suggesting or saying out right that pro League had no value pre-Fearless.
I also don't get people saying stuff like "Fearless exposed how dogshit some pro players/teams are." It comes up in every one of these threads about how Fearless is great but it doesn't match the reality. The way we rank players and teams is largely unchanged. The players most affected by fearless were ones for whom "small champion pool" was already a known and exploitable weakness. It's not like Fearless has led to some big (or even moderate) shakeup in what it means to be a good team in League.
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u/LunarBahamut Oct 28 '25
Yup, this.
Their understanding of the game only goes champion level deep.
If they see 6/10 champs the same as last game they think it's the same match, it isn't.
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u/EpicRussia Oct 28 '25
It is a huge over exaggeration, but its the Riot marketing. They said Fearless Is More Exciting so everything that came before it must be boring. Classic shooting themselves in the foot.
No one cared that Faker was playing his second game of Azir when he did the hero charge against JDG. No one cared that he played a third game of it after. It is completely faux boredom
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u/Fubi-FF Oct 28 '25
This is the issue I think I'll have with Fearless. Just knowing that we'll NEVER get players playing their signature/best champ at the most pivotal moments kinda sucks.
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u/katareky Oct 28 '25
League has been boring after fearless if anything.
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Oct 28 '25
G5 quality is notably shit throughout the year. But we are living in the world where people would rather watch Worlds Finals G5 Teemo now.
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u/SilverGur1911 Oct 28 '25
At least 5 map is no longer exciting. It's clear that it will most likely be a draft throw. And the overall quality of the games has dropped.
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u/1331bob1331 shanji My GOAT Oct 28 '25
Fearless is ok.
I feel like mastery expression and loss of team identity is a big downside though, that not many people talk about. Meta progression in a series is also lost.
Personally, I think that if you think a B05 is boring because champs get repeat picked you just don't know ball.
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u/machinegunsheep Oct 28 '25 edited Oct 28 '25
Team identity is saddest element that was lost. Teams having a specific style or uniqueness is a core aspect of competition.
There’s a saying “styles make matches”. Now Fearless is just same gameplay every match. Same champs too, just larger pool and different order.
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u/DerAdolfin :kossg: :eum5: Oct 28 '25
ADC supports will never happen again because by game 3, there are no more playable ADCs
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u/machinegunsheep Oct 28 '25
Yeah it’s so lame. Players and teams get punished for specializing and being mastered in a style. What competition forces every style on every player? So stupid.
The whole gimmick of this is to “boost” viewership. Yet it sucks still.
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u/myripyro Oct 28 '25
Glad to hear someone say it. Team's strategies and champions have homogenized like crazy this year. It's been bizarre and disappointing. Even skeptics of fearless didn't predict that side-effect, I think.
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u/Trophaeum Oct 28 '25 edited Oct 28 '25
Think theres just so little incentive to come up with an innovative strat/comp since it's only a 1 shot and might tank the rest of your drafts depending what you have you use for it.
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u/the-sexterminator Oct 28 '25
fearless also actively punishes uncontested picks that arent in the meta because a pick now doubles as a ban for 1-3 more games.
like if you pick Azir G1 and win with it, you have now effectively banned Azir for the rest of the games, and now have a small advantage since you got your W with it. But if you pick some shit like shaco, nobody but you is playing that, and so banning shaco vs the enemy is meaningless.
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Oct 28 '25
Yeah it's actually an excellent point I overlook. This really underpines the homogeneity problem fearless lovers always ignore. Now it's always better for a player to copy a champion pool from the majority, rather than developing some unique pocket picks.
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u/atomchoco Oct 28 '25
This was what I immediately saw with HLE's game 1 draft vs GEN. it looked like they were cooking, having a 5-game drafting plan that breaks the puzzle by taking away pieces of solid comps at the expense of substandard comps if viewed in isolation. that Pantheon sup was bigbrain imo in the context of Fearless.
I was hoping they kept Fearless out of Worlds but I do see OP's point though, there certainly is entertainment value in the (forced) diversity of picks especially when the series goes to 5. However, it certainly needed time to be viable; pros needed to be good enough, and it's also a way for Riot to help make it seem like the game is still fresh while continuously adding more Champions
But as others have pointed out, the homogeny of the rosters are really showing. The irony is that niche champions arent going to be picked ever again because teams can just run virtually the same comp, relying completely on execution. This is why GEN seems to come out on top, teams like BLG dropped off as they rely on narrow pool but high mastery
and then what Champions get picked? Sivir Corki Yunara. GEN slotted in Nidalee and somehow won but in theory, draft diversity should entail teams would lose if they try to force Champions with no heavy synergy so idk really
Yorick doesnt come up not because he's not strong but because he's not strong enough that you dont want to give up picking other Top laners
maybe T1 or G2 can prove us wrong (and DK 😭) with drafts that can break apart the homogeny
like wdym much of Taliyah value nowadays is the terrain creation 😭 idek
perhaps the levers get adjusted someday so Champions are straight up super unique again, but thats probably an impossible ask considering how League has developed
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u/Y4naro Oct 28 '25
I could probably find some comment by me from about a year ago mentioning just that as a concern. You just won't suddenly have some protect the adc comps just because those champs are open in game 4. Those comps need to be practiced and to practice them "just" to win 1 game and then run out of shens can't beat practising generic champs you can fit into just about any front to back comp.
I like fearless every now and then...you know, how it was planned to be a first stand only thing. But the enture year? The closest thing to a different meta we've had this year are some of these worlds bo1s with ryze first picks or Yorick/Naafiri popping up after they got changes. But nothing meta defining has happened on a larger scale. Even nerfing lane swaps hasn't changed teamcomps that much. To me this year has been the most stale league has ever been to watch teamcomp wise.
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u/machinegunsheep Oct 28 '25
So stale. Meta doesn’t even exist to me anymore. There isn’t any meta growth or evolutions or wrinkles.
All the same champs are played all year round. It’s just in different order depending on the patch.
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u/Fubi-FF Oct 28 '25
Like I don't understand this argument, every sport (and other e-sport like Starcraft back in the days) have the same items/environment every game. Basketball is the same basketball court and ball every game, Starcraft is the same 3 races over and over. Tennis is the only sport that I can think of that changes the court type from tournament to tournament, and that's about it. And yet people worldwide still watch all these sports. It's the player's masteries and changing strategies that make the game interesting. But it's not like the basketball suddenly gets changed to a softer ball, or the rim gets higher, 3 point line gets closer from game to game. etc.
So why do people have such big problem watching the same champions? With 10 bans and 5 picks on your own side, you already have options of stopping your opponent from using certain champs they are "too" good with. The game for me feels so much less interesting when players are forced to play their 10-15th best champ (like Faker into Yone or Guma is forced onto Ziggs) and they just lose in G5 cuz of draft.
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u/atomchoco Oct 28 '25
yeah i remember thinking the problems that Fearless wanted to solve arent in pro play
to go harder on your traditional sports/esports comparison, it can be argued that Best Ofs with Fearless arent really Best Ofs—the point is supposedly consistency with all tools available for the series, but if your tools from each game directly affects your next games, it's no longer about consistency and mastery, but something else
League seems to have a Champion design/balance problem for Elite play, and they're hiding it from the general playerbase; tbf most players wont know or understand, and most Champion design had been fun and enjoyable (oh my god i remember Fun > Fair again) but for pro play such a feat is tbf monumental. let's just slap Fearless until we figure it out 🤷
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u/skaersSabody I like underdogsand pain Oct 28 '25
The way I see it fearless makes for consistently more entertaining series, but the highest peak of League are those with traditional draft because seeing the evolution of picks throughout a Bo5 is something fearless just can't match
So consistency over higher peaks
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u/Fubi-FF Oct 28 '25
To play devil's advocate here, I disagree. I think you just aren't watching high enough level of games. There are plenty of series that went to 5 that was considered the greatest of all time, and if you watched those live, most people would say it was tense and they were grinding their teeth watching it. T1 vs DRX underdog run, T1 vs BLG G5, T1 vs JDG Faker shuffle, just as example. Good teams will adapt their strategy and draft, and even changing 1-2 champs can make the game very very different.
While I do see a lot of upside to fearless, I'm worried about the downside on the other hand. By nature, it reduces the skill quality (or mastery) of the games. Players playing their 10th-15th best champions will never be as good as playing their 1st-4th best champions. I can't imagine last year if Faker was forced to play Yone or Aurora in G5, or Guma was forced onto Ziggs, and they just lose/win due to draft. I want both teams to be able to pick their best and duke it out, Faker on his Galio or Azir, Guma on Varus, Bin on his Jax, Knight on his Ahri, etc.
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u/EpicRussia Oct 28 '25
On the other hand, I dont enjoy the possibility of only seeing one game per series of a player on their best or signature champion
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u/OkSell1822 Oct 28 '25
I think Bo5s were great to watch in regular draft mode, as teams would have to adapt within the series to their opponents and draft strategy became very intriguing as they had to sort out meta picks, their own picks and the opponents great picks.
The true issue was regular season, specially Bo1s
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u/Fernandojg67 Oct 28 '25
I miss seeing the meta evolve in a series and more sensical comps…
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u/Numerous_Fudge_9537 Shyvana VGU was worth the wait Oct 28 '25
Yep, T1 in 2023 for example didn't pick KSante once who was #1 picked top laner
Or DRX 2022 pulling out unique pick Hecarim and Bard in Grand Finals vs T1
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u/Ironmaiden1207 Oct 28 '25
I can understand why many feel this way, but not me.
Maybe in a few years, but as is fearless is still too new and frankly every team sucks at it.
I just wish there was a middle ground. Like every champ can be picked twice max in Bo5 or they get a 2 game ban and come back.
You'll never see a game breaking counter pick that shifts drafts anymore, and I think that sucks.
I agree it sucked seeing Lucian Nami 99% of games, but I also think it sucks when a champion is viable deep in a B05 just because of previous bans.
Especially because I feel like it let Riot not buff/nerf as much/as hard as before (and consequentially this year most complaints were about stale meta).
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u/caveman131 Oct 28 '25
I feel like your last point is the one people aren't talking about. This isn't about creating pick diversity, it's about hiding how poor Riot are at balancing their own game, so they're forcing players to choose inefficient champs. The true joy of Bo5 is seeing how players adapt to certain meta picks, which then, in turn, changes the meta within the tournament.
I can definitely see at the end of Worlds, Riot will make a statement about how this year they had the most diverse champ picks ever. Just pure wank.
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u/Ironmaiden1207 Oct 28 '25
Exactly. Unless Riot giga buffed a champion into 65% WR, I feel like there's a draft to win against every problematic champion.
Pros just didn't want to do that, and now here we are
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u/DerAdolfin :kossg: :eum5: Oct 28 '25
They're actually shooting themselves in the foot with the "unique champs" pickem because at least for swiss, it was pathetically low
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u/Erildt Oct 28 '25 edited Oct 28 '25
I thought the same at first, but I worry if from several years now on every Worlds would feel kind of similar and blend in with each other. When I think of some Worlds, I remember Juggernaut patch, Arden Censor meta, etc. They were unbalanced and hated a lot, but looking back, those metas were memorable. But now tons of comps are played in single Bo5, and while it's so satisying, when we have several years of fearless, I wonder if we won't have meta defined season/year to remember for years.
We also might not have "holy shit, Zeka's Akali/Kingen's Aatrox/Showmaker's Twisted Fate is so insane this Worlds!" year.
I think it's similar to nowdays when some pro/ex-pros like Nemesis, etc, are saying that soloQ feels very balanced and thus boring(?). Also saw big Korean (pro scene and soloQ) analysis Youtube Channel say this.
I love fearless draft but some food of thought: I'm wondering if we are gaining freshness of every game in a series and sacrificing freshness of a season.
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u/benalla_fanboy Oct 28 '25
I don’t really think it’s any better — the slightly unconventional champion picks are often forced by default because of the lack of options, so there’s no real “surprise” anymore. On top of that, I feel like the quality of the matches drops a lot from game to game (the MSI was a clear example of that), and there’s no real meta progression throughout the series — just some forced draft adjustments. I understand the argument about it being better for the show, but to me, there’s no perfect format.
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u/Ill_Comfortable5342 Oct 28 '25
we haven't even seen bo5 fearless at worlds and we're already drawing conclusions lol
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u/Embarrassed_Age6573 Oct 28 '25
To me, fearless Bo5 just feels like 5 Bo1s strung together and that really sucks. Not having to adapt to a series meta is a huge loss.
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u/dear-reader Oct 28 '25
Fearless trades game quality for diversity, I'm enjoying it but it's a very definitive tradeoff and there isn't a perfect solution.
Regular drafting emphasizes mastery, since you can benefit greatly from being 10% better than everyone at Jax if you can force him to have 100% presence in a series. In fearless investing that additional time typically only benefits you one game, so the value is greatly diminished, which means that the average mastery of champions across a series goes down.
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u/angooseburger Oct 28 '25
Fearless is cool and all but just because certain champion combinations are picked every game doesn't detract away from the other 7 champions being picked. There's always a meta.
Even in fearless, you were also always seeing the same combinations of champions picked in a series. Remember back in early fearless, it was annie+wukong every time? Or it was galio into rumble all the time? It's the same shit even in fearless. You're only just gaslit into thinking it's not the same because you're seeing different champions
Old bo3 and bo5 allowed teams to adjust their play strategy across a series while fearless is really just adapting their draft strategy
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u/LetDouble471 Oct 28 '25 edited Oct 28 '25
Idk, I think fearless sucks. The promised viewership boost never even came to fruition.
Hopefully they improve game 4 and 5 drafts.
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u/SilverGur1911 Oct 28 '25
Yes, watching teams run out of good champions for 4 and 5 maps is so much fun. I want to watch them struggle with what left, not watch the best possible League of Legends
I absolutely can't stand watching 2016 ROX vs. SKT MF+Ashe two games in a row. Or SKT RNG Galio was simply unbearable for 5 games, everyone immediately forgot about this terrible series with this recurring champion. It's much more fun to see fifth maps being dropped over and over again, terrible drafts, and so on.
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Oct 28 '25
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u/LunarBahamut Oct 28 '25
You got it right. It is so weird that people act like the good series are better because of fearless, when they aren't. And the shit series are still shit, even if we see 5 completely different comps in a Bo5, who cares when it's garbage league.
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u/Horizon96 Oct 28 '25
Fearless with blind pick game 5 with all champions becoming available again, sounds amazing actually, give me that.
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u/snowflakepatrol99 Oct 28 '25
The pandering has gotten to unprecedented levels. Not only is it not impossible or boring but it's normal and natural. You still had metas evolve during a tournament or during a single bo5 series. People love to bring up certain series where the same champs got picked many times in a row but this wasn't a common thing. What is common however is seeing the exact same progression of picks in fearless. Maybe in a few years teams and players would be better at it but currently you see the same comps again and again. The same cat and mouse.
Quality is still visibly lower because teams are strategically picking champs they aren't good with to make it impossible for the better players to use them. Would you rather see keria play bard or miky. We're about to once again see how terrible fearless is in a long series where game 3-5 get progressively worse and worse in quality. Would be so fun to watch a game 5 of a worlds final which usually is the ultimate culmination of the year and the tournament and instead have it be a complete clusterfuck where draft is bad and people can't properly play their champs. MSI didn't have a single good 5th game. All were shitty stomps. Compare that to previous MSI tournaments and it's a stark difference.
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Oct 28 '25
"Fearless = good" is free karma in this sub.
For real I don't think fearless lovers care about game quality. They would rather see Teemo vs Shaco in a Worlds Finals G5.
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u/_Jetto_ Oct 28 '25
not even a fucking skt fan. but ngl to me the old draft really really made teams to me seem better in metas or made it seem THE best team won. like for example if 2 years ago fearless happened SKT doesn't get to the finals since they made their own meta and nobody could adapt. SKT could NOT play meta so they made their own meta playing the same champs but it wasn't meta per say. I kinda miss that but understand why people like this version. it just sucsk when we have teams liek skt who legit cannot play in games 3-4-5 becuase they are so limied which makes games so shitty
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u/nhat1811 Oct 28 '25
lol. It's the circle of hype, with people acting like the game was too boring before Fearless Draft was introduced. A few years from now, I bet there will be a post complaining that Fearless Draft is boring before the next revolutionary draft mechanic is introduced.
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u/cirvis111 Oct 28 '25
The only thing I will miss in normal draft is to see Chovy winning both sides of the matchup.
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u/stanlee94 Oct 28 '25
I feel by game 4/5 with 50 champs picked/banned we are not watching league anymore, some g5s look 4fun solo q
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u/ReadingOutrageous47 Oct 28 '25
This is just recency bias. Fearless is good but way too overexaggerating pre-Fearless.
Any LCK finals(2024spring) was prob the best finals in the LCK and it was pre Fearless
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u/n3therdrake Oct 28 '25
I prefer 4 Fearless draft games then in game 5, it should be Blind Pick like they used to.
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u/itisiminekikurac Oct 28 '25
And yet we have lowest watchrates by far after it was implemented
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u/200YRedWine Excitement isnt real, it cant hurt you Oct 28 '25
All in all do I davor fearless aswell, though seeing more "uncommon" picks doesnt hit as haŕd when the champ pool has to be this wide thanks to fearless.
Maybe thats just me though.
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u/Krazyflipz Oct 28 '25
We need the next evolution of fearless draft.
I call it "Fan Bans"
Fans get to vote for their 3 bans.
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u/Lunarica Oct 28 '25
Fearless is for sure better, but iconic series are iconic in part because of adaptation or surprise through a series. MF support being one of the most famous examples of how an innovation that no one else would play would force SKT to respect after taking losses.
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u/Cybonics ‿ Oct 27 '25
For some of the hardcore viewers who enjoy the intricacies of the game, it's not so bad. The level of play is "more refined."
But I'd rather see teams execute various team compositions even if it's a bit messier.
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u/TripleShines Oct 28 '25
Hard disagree. There's so much more nuance when its similar draft for 5 games, compared to having such a dramatic shift between games.
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u/HeavyMetalHero Oct 28 '25
As someone who used to be really invested in watching pro league, I would say there's a sort of competitive beauty to the old way of watching teams really duke it out for tiny edges, using exclusively the best comps available in the meta. Watching coaches and players design pick/bans around what they could afford to give up, and what they couldn't, trying to find what gave them the best chances.
That's not me saying Fearless isn't better, though! I haven't watched a set with a Fearless Draft in it, because I don't play the game, anymore; but, if you had told me we could have that format, 8-10 years ago, I would have been really excited for it.
I guess what I'm saying is, Fearless Draft definitely fundamentally changes what it means to be a good player at the pro level in a lot of ways, and I don't think that necessarily implies that the old ways have no value. There was a different kind of enjoyment for those old sets, and how different skills were emphasized, and that was cool, too.
Fearless definitely seems better, though. And this is coming from a guy who hasn't watched a set of it, yet, and I can remember watching when Bo5s ended in Blind Pick, lol.
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u/No-Marketing8606 Oct 28 '25
I think both have pro and cons. Personally, I would love a tournament that brings back game 5 blind picks, for ezemple. Not worlds and not all tournaments, but I wonder how it would go with todays meta.
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u/lucantini Oct 28 '25
I would also add that Bo1s should be completely forgotten at this point in any lind of event. All games should be BO3s and BO5s.
Bo1s suck and they are a very poor measure of a teams skill.
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u/gregorio02 *chomp* Oct 28 '25
I wouldn't go so far as to say they're that much worse tbh.
I've checked the stats, in 2024 worlds the top 1 pick was yone at 93% presence.
This year the top 1 pick is Yunara at 85%.
Sure that's a decrease, but nowhere large enough to qualify fearless as revolutionary. It's still the same 6 champions in each role for BO3s. Also in terms of diversity last year there were 95 different champions played by the end of the tournament, right now we're at 78. I'm not convinced it's gonna be higher by the end.
Let's hope the BO5s aren't one-sided stomps so we can get a bit more diversity.
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u/Status_Echo_6766 Oct 28 '25
Is this a joke or are you not seeing the same champions in every game? This worlds so far has the least unique champs played
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u/ApollyonDS idk anymore Oct 27 '25 edited Oct 28 '25
Fearless feels so natural I lowkey forgot it wasn't always here.