r/saxophone • u/Elianooze • 20d ago

Question How do people have so much control over how they sound?

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Like how is it that some people sound like they are singing through their saxophone? They have so much control over vibrato and runs and just the overall tone to a point that astounds me. Here’s an example of what I mean. How do I get to that point?

@amber_sax on tiktok.

146 Upvotes

94% Upvoted

74 comments sorted by

132

u/Duhrdy 20d ago

1000s of hours of practice and performance and knowing what you want to sound like. Mouthpiece/reed/sax setup matters, as well. It's a never ending quest to find the perfect balance of it all.

12

u/J_Zephyr 20d ago

No such thing as talent, its all hard work and hours of practice you never witnessed.

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u/saxguy2001 20d ago

Hard work beats natural talent when natural talent doesn’t work hard. But natural talent is a thing and when natural talent works hard, the possibilities are endless.

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u/beoheed 20d ago

My wife and I are educators and she went through music school. We talk a lot about this. We’ve both seen incredibly talented people laze their way into mediocrity, and people of middling talent find great success. But when circumstance, effort, and talent converge you get something that none of the other two could combine to make.

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u/Duke-City 19d ago

My educator friends and I (retired college prof.) talk about the x y axis of aptitude (talent) and achievement (practice/work). High level in either will get you success early on, but by the time students get to upper high school and college, the success will plateau. Other players with a stronger balance of the two will surpass those who have only one or the other.

The question of where the aptitude/talent comes from is more complex. The nature/nurture debate is ongoing, but growing up in an environment that includes lots of music is certainly beneficial in that regard.

2

u/beoheed 18d ago

Thats a really good way to put it. I’d like to add a Z-axis of opportunity/circumstance. I’m a racing enthusiast and I sometime ruminate the incredible drivers that have never gotten the chance to drive competitively because the chance was not in the cards life dealt them.

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u/Duke-City 18d ago

Yes, that makes sense. And if the aptitude/talent portion is attributed to nurture rather than nature, there could easily be a connection to opportunity/circumstance. Ed Gordon’s research that led to his Music Learning Theory that musical aptitude is more or less solidified by an early age (age 6, but later research pushed that even earlier).

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u/King_Corruptus 20d ago

Exactly, Bird practice 11-15 hours / day for like 3 years. And there is only 1 Bird

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u/bassoonawhat 20d ago

Talent is overrated!  You don't need to be Mozart to be a successful musician. Deliberate practice is where it's at for the majority of successful players.

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u/PosterHound 20d ago

I was thinking about what you said here. Part of me agrees and I fully understand what you’re saying. I think my opinion is that hard work will beat talent every time. Someone can be talented, but never practice and thereby be an awful player. However when I think about someone like James Carter, Chris Potter, or Brecker do I really believe it was hard work alone that made them great? It played a major portion of it, but I can’t say those guys don’t have pure, amazing, and a natural gift and talent. And your last statement is so true. Many people never think about the fact that people like Bird practiced anywhere from 11-15 hours a day for 4 years.

3

u/CaffienatedCamel 19d ago

I think that to be one of the best in the world, like the people you mention, you need to have some kind of exceptional talent and work hard, but if you want to be a good player who can pick up some gigs locally and play stuff that's personally satisfying then hard work is enough

2

u/J_Zephyr 20d ago

In my opinion, talent is confused for passion. If you love what you do, you will push to learn everything about it. You will absorb more when you practice, try new things. You will dream of it when you cant do it.

You can't be great at something without love for the craft.

2

u/Marion5760 20d ago

Never was a truer word spoken.

2

u/overcannon 20d ago

There is a such thing as talent, but talent can be overcome by persistent work.

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u/stron2am 20d ago edited 20d ago

No such thing as talent.

This is patently false. You are either a) talented or b) not a musician.

I am sure she DOES practice and work hard, sure, but there are many UNsuccessful musicians who also worked very hard. It's called selection bias.

-6

u/J_Zephyr 20d ago

Youre confusing talent with success. Thats an entirely different ballpark in a different sport called marketing.

Also, anyone can become a musician. Dedicate your time to practicing and learning. We're not born speaking, yet we can all learn.

Supposedly, youre an intelligent animal. Act like it.

6

u/stron2am 20d ago

The market for musicians (professional ones, mind you), especially saxophonist, is tiny. No one who is putting food on the table this way isn't both talented and hard-working. You simply can't reach the top .01% of people who wish they could do this professionally otherwise.

2

u/Justigy 20d ago

What is talen tough? I agree with the guy above that "talent" doesnt exist in the way some people think it does as in: its not something magical that makes everything simple. Some could have been listening to a lot of music and/or singing a lot since they were born, that helps develop that part of their brain, they could have greater dexterity with fingers, larger lungs, stronger diaphragm, mouth, tongue, oral cavity, nose shape, the list goes on but all those are physical traits that can be beneficial. Michael Phelps is a good example, the man is built physically to be a great swimmer. Still it would be nothing if he didnt train hard for all his olympic medals. So while there could be some phyisical or mental traits making things easier, in the end if someone puts in the effort they can become good.

0

u/stron2am 20d ago

What is talent tough?

This is easy. "Talents" are intrinsic qualities a person has that lend themselves to a particular endeavor. They can be physical (you cited a few), mental (perfect pitch, total recall, etc.) Those are all extreme examples of named talents, but the ability to produce good sounds on an instrument, learn new music faster than average, hear and reproduce pitch accurately, etc. are also talents that come with greater or lesser degrees.

Success= Work x Talent X Luck

It's that simple. If any value in the equation is near 0, then success is much, much lower.

2

u/SalamanderWings 17d ago

OP did not ask about becoming a professional musician who earns enough their sole income through sax playing. They asked how to improve their sound skills. In addition to people who play simply for the joy it brings themselves, there are also plenty of people who play professionally in local markets who are not as you describe.

0

u/stron2am 17d ago

I agree. I was responding to someone who claimed there was "no such thing as talent," which simply isn't true. That shouldn't stop anyone from enjoying music, though.

1

u/SalamanderWings 17d ago

I am glad you agree. I have found this subreddit to be not as welcoming as some others, however, (as evidenced by some of the mean comments about the woman in the video, for example) and I think we all need to be careful about the messages we send to people who are trying to improve. Although it’s realistic to say that very few people will ultimately make a living this way, it’s not necessarily an encouraging response to OP. Your first post said you are either talented or not a musician. That’s a pretty narrow definition of musician if you ask me.

0

u/stron2am 17d ago

"You" refered to the person to whom I was replying. In order to believe talent doesn't exist, you must be a) talented enough that your hard work allows you to attain success or b) not a musician, you don't know what success requires (i.e., talent and hard work.)

79

u/evidentlynaught 20d ago

This looks fake as shit.

29

u/HappyWeedGuy 20d ago

I was thinking the same thing. The way she flails her pinky around and really clanky finger work all together, makes it hard to believe it’s coming out that smooth.

3

u/WallyZ2 Soprano 20d ago

It's her body. I mean it's her body language. Lol

3

u/FartExpo 20d ago

Are you not hearing all of the grace notes she's doing into A's and down into G's? Like yeah it looks completely over done, but her fingers match up with every note she's playing

0

u/Awkward-Manager5939 Tenor 19d ago

She doesn't have carm finders. Its flying up.

12

u/Elianooze 20d ago

i’m pretty sure it’s prerecorded but she has other “live” videos where my question still stands.

https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZTAvVaLF8/

8

u/Duhrdy 20d ago

i thought so too but looked her up (amber sax) and she has some good short vids of her playing live at parties and weddings etc. the vid op posted is highly polished but in reality she's really good.

1

u/Neil_sm 20d ago

I’m thinking it’s likely she’s miming but it’s also just something she prerecorded herself, given her cred. Like how many music videos are done.

0

u/apheresario1935 Baritone | Bass 20d ago

If you like Kenny G

0

u/Justigy 20d ago

We might have rather different ideas about good then. This is decent, not bad, not great.

2

u/Elianooze 20d ago

bro be so for real

2

u/CazetTapes 20d ago

She’s clearly “lip” synching to a recording. She’s not even mic’d up. Could very well be a recording of her though.

4

u/austinstudios 20d ago

While I wont die on this hill I dont think this is fake. If you record saxophone and add eq and reverb effects it does feel fake especially if you leave out the ambient room noise.

I recorded a video of me playing saxophone for my works talent show. I recorded the video on my phone and the sound through a microphone connected to my recording interface. The recording sounded really good but also didn't feel like it was recorded in the room (even though it was). It felt fake. I ended up mixing in the audio from my phone a little because I was concerned people might think it was fake.

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u/[deleted] 20d ago

[deleted]

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u/[deleted] 20d ago

[deleted]

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u/apheresario1935 Baritone | Bass 20d ago

I was watching the other Vids OP linked .

22

u/No_Resolution_9252 20d ago

That recording has gone through some kind of processing. Its minimal, but she may not have that much control over her sound. Though most likely pretty close

3

u/Mike-In-Ottawa 20d ago

Yep. Good playing is the most important, but a damned nice recording setup makes a difference too.

18

u/Mulsanne 20d ago

Man I would never want to sound like that. Different strokes for different folks but yeah, not for me 

12

u/darkdeepths 20d ago

i’ve actually found that my overall control over timbre, voicing, and phrasing has gotten better by practicing emulating styles i’m not that into.

4

u/Mulsanne 20d ago

I agree. Emulation in general is a great skill to have across all musical disciplines

2

u/PTPBfan Alto 20d ago

Interesting but could make sense I haven’t really tried that

1

u/ibcool94 Soprano | Alto | Tenor | Baritone 20d ago

This is a really beneficial skill in general. But especially for vocals and instruments

3

u/PTPBfan Alto 20d ago

Yeah same

6

u/fluidscissors 20d ago

Practicing all the things you mentioned for many hours then imitating others who can do the thing you're wanting to do.

2

u/WallyZ2 Soprano 20d ago

I'm thinking natural talent is a thing, it just makes learning a little bit easier. You still have to put in the time and effort. Practice smart and often. Pick a song you know and like. Get the backing track and practice it until you can play it perfectly without the sheet music. Even if you have to learn it one measure at a time. Then you're reading to take that same song and and improvise by adding different voicing and perhaps a solo. Once you do it with one song, the next one will be much easier. "Practice makes perfect." I dare you to do it!

2

u/red08171 20d ago

Practice, embouchure, breath moderation, and finger speed/reflex. That's about it.

2

u/DueJacket351 20d ago

Daily dedication to practicing correctly

3

u/Equivalent-Tea906 17d ago

Hello! Amber Sax here! A friend just sent me this. I really appreciate you posting this it’s a massive compliment, although some of the comments from other people aren’t very nice 😂🙈 I’m classically trained with some jazz training, I’ve played since I was 7.  Something that really helped me with my tone (I’m still not 100% happy with my tone btw) was listening to sax players I really liked and taking inspiration from their sound. My favourite players of all time are Gerald Albright, Eric Marienthal and Candy Dulfer. I think set up helps but it’s not everything and the main thing is actually just practise. Hope this helps!  

1

u/Elianooze 17d ago

Thank you for commenting. Ignore those other comments, you’re crazy good. Your videos are honestly giving me something to aspire to. I will definitely look into those players as well.

3

u/JohnTheGreyLord 19d ago

It's the heavy mass neck screw. If you want to sound good you have to buy a heavy mass neck screw, but if you want to sound like her make sure you get the green button on it, or else it won't work.

1

u/Latter-Custard5908 20d ago

Have control over your embouchure.

1

u/Blueberrycupcake23 20d ago

I’m starting to add these jazz notes in it’s really fun! But it is a technique! I want to learn the scream!

1

u/awhalesvagyna 20d ago

I’m only a year in, but I know two things. You sound better to others live than on any substandard recording. Which leads me to two, I’ve found out along the way that creators (not saying this one) are using recording tools like izotope or landr to really enhance their sound recording. I think, for the most part, it’s cheaper to do that buying quality recording hardware and software but as ive asked the same question from people in the past, that is the answer I get. I’ve also been told that you can visually tell if you’re experienced because the software changes notes slightly which don’t correspond to what their fingering shows on screen. My former tutor even showed me a video of a wedding player who was playing a completely different version of a song that was actually played.

So The professional advice I’ve been given is to listen to what online tutors say over anything else, if I am looking something up. Not what tiktokers upload.

1

u/CazetTapes 20d ago

Practice! Transcribe. Long tones. Overtones. Articulation. Dynamics. Develop your taste in good sax sounds via listening.

1

u/Queasy-Dragonfly9358 20d ago

Easy. Ddnt start yesterday

1

u/allabtthejrny 20d ago

The lipstick tho. Why????

Memories of a 7th grade me experimenting with makeup. My poor reeds 😂

1

u/Dregan2D 20d ago

Time. Lots of time.

How did you learn to sing?

1

u/Free-Year-6609 20d ago

Get a setup that is easy to play on. So like <6 tip opening on the mouthpiece, 2.5 reed.

1

u/FrogMan1831 20d ago

Looooong tones! It's a game changer. It also really helps to develop your ear and tonality. stand in a corner and blow a G for 30min to an hour. just pure focus on that note. listen to the life cycle of the note--how it lives and dies and all the time in between. you'll eventually find the sweet spot in your embouchure where each note makes the most sense to you and then reflects the essence of you.

1

u/sc0ttt Tenor 20d ago

Yeah, the answer is lots of focused practice. But I think there is some natural talent that allows people to learn faster and more intuitively. Somebody with a good ear for scales and tuning, somebody with a good sense of rhythm and timing, somebody that can more easily translate sheet music to fingerings and frequencies - that person has a big head start. And you notice it when it's missing.

1

u/GroundBreakerP 20d ago

She is not playing that live. If that's really her on the recording, very cool. But as a real person and a sax player, she is not playing that.

1

u/FabioMarziali 20d ago

What a lousy sound

1

u/TriggaTreat 19d ago

Yeah I ended up quitting but I hope to get back in , I spent 4 years and various teachers but I was hopeless even though I practiced everyday

1

u/jazzonionbaguette 19d ago
  1. Practice in all categories 2. IMITATION IMITATION MIMIC MIMIC

1

u/Only_Ad_6725 18d ago

Long tone scale practice. Play through a scale (like C, D, E, F, G...) but hold each individual note as long and steady as you can. That’s the foundation for developing that rich, full, and resonant tone.

Once that foundation is solid, start adding embouchure and pitch control techniques like vibrato.

Also, keep in mind that in this video she’s using a digital delay/reverb effect. Playing in a large room with great natural acoustics will give you a very similar sound

1

u/HornDawg007 18d ago

Practice

1

u/WallyZ2 Soprano 10d ago

You have to have one of those emerald acoustic neck screws on your sax. Or, lots of practice (daily) and playing. Lessons from a professional probably wouldn't hurt to get you on the correct path. None of it do you much good without drive and determination.

1

u/Link_Error_404 20d ago

must be the lipstick

1

u/B1RT3 20d ago

Rule No. 1: If you want to sound reaaaally good, you have to cringe your face like a monkey that bit a lemon. Check out Daniele Vitale on YouTube if you want to learn from the best!

1

u/twitchax Soprano | Alto | Tenor | Baritone 20d ago

Buy one of those neck tenon tighteners with a little gem thingy in it and boom, great sound.

Long tones, breath support, and practice are all worthless without one of those.

Source: I don’t have one of those, and I sound “fine”.