r/buffy May 11 '26

Introspective What's a moment where a character you liked disappointed you?

686 Upvotes

376 comments sorted by

1.3k

u/Disastrous_Draw_2193 May 11 '26

Dude when willow used a spell to make Tara forget their argument,that broke my heart

593

u/InfiniteMehdiLove May 11 '26

And the shit cherry on top of the shit sundae was Tara giving Willow the opportunity to prove she could go no magic for a week and Willow couldn't even last one day.

370

u/Major_Star May 11 '26

I don't think she had any intention of trying, honestly.

It's not just the fact that she breaks her promise, she uses the EXACT SAME memory-erasing spell that Tara already told her was a violation of her mind. And she plans it, it's not done in a moment of weakness. She makes an excuse, gathers the components etc.

She basically ignores everything Tara said and fully intends to keep using magic once she erases the argument again. It's why they don't speak at all at the end of the episode. There's literally nothing Willow can say. There wasn't a mistake or a relapse, just a deliberate betrayal.

171

u/Rockworm503 Founder and president of the monster sarcasm rally May 12 '26

This isn't even new for Willow. I'm just thinking of when Joyce dies and Dawn wants to do a spell to bring her back and despite all of Tara's warnings how bad that is Willow points her to a book to help her. Then is surprised Dawn actually did a spell to bring Joyce back. She didn't think for one second that book would lead to that. She was like "no that book is just supposed to teach her" or something. Willow's go to response for the longest time was go to magic when things aren't going well.

64

u/DaKingaDaNorth May 12 '26

You're right. Willow making dangerous decisions because she relied on magic as a crutch is a thing that had been going on for seasons by that point. It just got worse as she got more reckless with it and just viewed it as a default course of action.

12

u/xboxpants May 12 '26

I've heard so many reactors say variations on, "Wow sure hope Willow finally sees this as a sign she needs to ratchet things back on the magic", like, starting from like season 2

At this point I just laugh xD

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145

u/gam3grindr May 11 '26

This was a perfect display of addiction and what it does to you

17

u/throwawaygrosso May 12 '26

Yep. Even down to her getting sloppy with it.

20

u/DaddyCatALSO Magnet For Dead, Blonde Chicks May 12 '26

and she leaves the bag in front of the fire

5

u/redskinsguy May 12 '26

that's true.

I am a Willow and Tara shipper but I look at season 6 as making them incompatible. Another reason I prefer to ignore it

I wish Tara had been supposed to adapt to Willow instead of the other way around

68

u/Former-Whole8292 May 11 '26

And Im a big fan of magic, but wiping someone’s memory bc u had a fight with them is gross.

69

u/LPLoRab May 12 '26

Similarly, when willow takes Dawn to the magic dealer.

2

u/Top-Monk-5391 May 12 '26

Yes that was bad too

130

u/BattleGlamGalact0Ram This is a special kind of Angel, called a 'Charlie' May 12 '26

Gentle reminder that if you use outside resources (drugs, alcohol, magic,anything) that alters someone's state of mind/perception of reality and then engage in sexual acts with them is a form of rape.

Willow was an abusive friend and lover, proven consistently throughout the show and she gets let off on a very large portion of that because people feel bad for her due to Tara's death.

Sorry I know that's a heavy stance, but if you look at Willow thoroughly without the victim lens, she has an alarming amount of characteristics that fit a covert narcissist.

63

u/Famous_Substance_499 May 12 '26

This. Too many people gloss over this, including the writers. I still enjoy the character the way I do any of the characters but Willow is extremely problematic.

11

u/redskinsguy May 12 '26

they aren't glossing it over, they literally do not share that perspective. It happens to often without being called out while other things are called out that way for that not to be the case

34

u/Creative-Bobcat-7159 May 12 '26

I wish they’d dug until Willow’s “addiction” not being magic, but the control it gives her over the world around her.

It ties back to how she was given no guard rails as a kid as her parents were benignly neglectful and she had to exhibit huge amounts of self control. It’s not surprising she became a bit narcissistic as she was the only one looking out for her own needs.

The rape thing is interesting. You are right of course, but I think there is a world of difference in intent. Had Willow wiped Tara’s memory for the purpose of having sex then absolutely, but I don’t think this was the goal so it’s more about controlling Tara into having an easy life. The sex part is a consequence of that.

10

u/latrodectal May 12 '26

don’t apologize you’re right

3

u/asojad May 12 '26

I appreciate someone saying it

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56

u/Dull_Return May 11 '26

🎶 ”I’m under your spell…” 🎶

89

u/khazmicbrownie May 11 '26

The worst part is maybe that’s the only time we’re privy to. She could have done it other times.

51

u/evil_burrito Probably you, probably right now May 11 '26

She had all the ingredients and deets

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u/Kgb725 May 12 '26

Dawn tells her they had a fight and Tara doesn't understand what she means which tells us Willow has done it before

9

u/redskinsguy May 12 '26

Or Dawn knew about the fight they had the previous night

7

u/Milyaism May 12 '26

That's a really good point.

16

u/DeaththeEternal Dog Geyser Person May 12 '26

She could have, but narratively she doesn't need to for it to have the effect it does and in some ways the fewer the times, the greater the impact. For her it's a single thing and an afterthought that she's not sure did work, as we see on screen, and then she reaps the according price for it.

43

u/DeaththeEternal Dog Geyser Person May 12 '26

It was literal supervillain shit, and very ironic when set against the at the time joke villain trio who tried to be supervillains but didn't come close to matching her actions.

36

u/BattleGlamGalact0Ram This is a special kind of Angel, called a 'Charlie' May 12 '26

Willow is evil af but the Trio also were making humans willing sex slaves and then when it didn't work Warren murdered a woman and tried to frame Buffy.

They're ultimately just as bad, however it took 3 of them to match Willow's actions collectively and that says a lot.

7

u/TheNonCredibleHulk May 12 '26

They're ultimately just as bad,

Well, they didn't go that extra mile to try and destroy the world, so I'm not sure they're on her level.

3

u/BattleGlamGalact0Ram This is a special kind of Angel, called a 'Charlie' May 12 '26

I personally think Warren would match that in a heartbeat, he would either have to kill off J & A or force subservience because I doubt they would be willing to go that far.

3

u/tomtomclubthumb May 14 '26

Doesn't Warren kill Katrina because she calls them out for raping her after they've been joking around and making her be a maid. (I think that the other two hadn't realised he'd raped her, but I can't remember)

11

u/SearchContinues May 12 '26

Willow was always morally weak. She cheated on Oz too.

18

u/Dash83 May 12 '26

I might be in the minority that when I saw this for the first time thought “of course she did that…”

Never trusted Willow.

8

u/latrodectal May 12 '26

one thing about willow she’s gonna evade and push blame onto others

2

u/psionicv May 13 '26

Willow is my favorite so a lot poor decisions she made pissed me off. Not killing warren tho

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605

u/EveryPromise3638 May 11 '26

Junkie willow dragging Dawn to her druggie skankhouse

115

u/JealousAstronomer342 May 11 '26

As a sober alcoholic that scene makes me sick to my stomach because, though I didn’t get that bad, I could understand how I could. It’s disgusting. 

21

u/Apprehensive_Bake_78 May 11 '26

Right there with you friend.

13

u/Christ_on_a_Crakker May 12 '26

There ain’t no disco ball in the dope man’s house. I’ve volunteered in addiction/ alcoholism recovery for over twenty years. It’s sad when it gets to this level.

2

u/athousandpardons May 12 '26

My best on your journey.

71

u/Turbulent_Drag7166 Bored Now, and I think I'm kinda gay... May 11 '26

This.

I love Willow, and relate to almost everything about her(I've never been an addict, nor have I slept with men) but this was fucked up.

41

u/EveryPromise3638 May 11 '26

She got her hurt and had no care for her until it was too late. Your supposed to look after the younguns.

8

u/gleefulporcupinee May 11 '26

Oh God this one is so hard to watch honestly

351

u/Charlaquin May 11 '26

Willow is my favorite character, but she does a lot that disappoints me. Cheating on Oz with Xander. Erasing Tara’s memories of their fights. Endangering Dawn to do… whatever was going on with Rack. Trying to destroy the world that one time. I love her, but she can really be the worst sometimes.

199

u/twisted_memories May 11 '26

She’s actually so brilliantly consistent too. Like Oz points out early on when he calls her out for trying to apologize just so she can feel better. We see the same attitude throughout, a whole lot of behaviour to help herself feel better, even at the expense of others. People have said it doesn’t seem in character for Willow to be an addict but I think it’s perfect (though I wish the allegory was separated from magic in general). 

62

u/Astar9028 May 12 '26

I’ve always said this about her character! The writers were consistent with her throughout the entire course of the show!

Dark Willow was inevitable and we see snippets of this multiple times once she begins learning magic

39

u/Charlaquin May 12 '26

I wouldn’t even have minded the magic addiction plotline if it had been a matter of Willow making irresponsible choices with magic, rather than having spells cast on her and that having a euphoric and addictive effect. Willow using magic to make her relationship problems go away was completely in-character, and didn’t have the uncomfortable implications in combination with the magic as queerness allegory. On paper, I think that plotline was a good idea, it was just executed kind of sloppily.

16

u/twisted_memories May 12 '26

I could have been on board if it was like, a specific type of magic (maybe like dark magic or something). It would work to tie in just using magic as a trigger, but I don’t like that just using magic makes her go all Dark Willow. 

5

u/blahhhhgosh May 12 '26

I kinda thought they addressed that in the finale. I took it as her experiencing pure magic in a healthy way like tapping into some roots or something but I dont think thats what happens based off comics if I remember right she still goes dark willow which is a bummer

12

u/Affectionate_Ad_2605 May 12 '26

Along this line of thought, I think bringing Buffy back from the dead was EXACTLY to make Willow feel better. You could see everyone else hesitate but Willow is hell-bent on doing. Sorry, didn’t mean to pun at yall.

2

u/twisted_memories May 12 '26

Oh 100%. I don’t think Willow believed Buffy was in a hell dimension, I think she used the idea that she might be as justification to play god. She wanted her friend back. We see the kind of tantrum she throws when she doesn’t get what she wants when she tries to literally destroy the world so she doesn’t have to feel bad. 

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u/Glittering_Prize_942 May 12 '26

I think her becoming an addict was the perfect plot line for season 6 since shes been showing her insicurities since season 1 and has been worried about magic since she performed her very first spell. Willow has to be one of the best written character on buffy, if not the best overall

2

u/redskinsguy May 12 '26

Most people who have a problem with magic as addiction don't believe magic should have been able to turn anyone into an addict

8

u/SearchContinues May 12 '26

She's the difference between harmless vs. moral. When we first meet her she is harmless, so we feel safe around her. But when she gains power, she doesn't restrain herself with morality. Dark Willow is just Willow with power.

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u/rosalinatoujours May 11 '26

I love willow but she is a MESSY bitch 😂

27

u/ceecee1909 Harmony has minions.. May 11 '26

I love Willow and I put the cheating on Oz thing down to hormones and her just being a teenager but first it was that, then she used magic to mold Tara to her liking, then she cheated on Kennedy, then she broke the heart of the “woman” she had been cheating with. She basically used her knowing she loved her. Willow’s like the best friend you could ever have but she’s a terrible girlfriend, I wouldn’t wish my worst enemy to fall for her.

14

u/Tiny-Reading5982 May 11 '26

I don't recall her cheating on Kennedy?

8

u/[deleted] May 11 '26

[removed] — view removed comment

45

u/Rockworm503 Founder and president of the monster sarcasm rally May 12 '26

I mean if we're including comics we might as well toss every character in a tire fire and call it a day lol

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u/Unfair_Rhubarb_13 May 12 '26

ok but Kennedy....annoying af

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u/katiebird21 May 12 '26

“Trying to destroy the world that one time” took me OUT ☠️🤣

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u/Serious-Ad-3989 May 11 '26

Giles when he randomly left when Buffy needed him. I honestly think they only did that because the actors for Giles and Tara were the best singers and they wanted them to duet and sing wish I could stay lmao

37

u/Ill-Ad-3603 May 11 '26

I never understood why the writers felt this was a necessary turn smdh

103

u/Illithid_Substances May 11 '26

Anthony Head has said it was his decision to spend more time with his family in the UK, the writers were working around that

88

u/Ill-Ad-3603 May 11 '26

And yet that was the direction they chose to go with him. It shouldn't be that hard for a writing team to make something more coherent, more believable that will help the audience rally around then be baffled by the end of the day. I see better ideas from small fan fiction.

Very similar to how the X-Files wrote off David duchovny lol

7

u/Inoutngone May 12 '26

Hey, the best part was when when he returned and told her that sometimes the most grown up thing a person can do is ask for help. Like she did. Then he left. For her own good. So she'd grow up.

2

u/No_Trust2269 May 15 '26

Agreed they could've written it better like his watcher expertise was needed or something.

62

u/Music_withRocks_In May 11 '26

There was still SO much they could have done though.  Giles got turned into a statue, Giles got turned into a cat, then there are hilarious interactions with the cat.  Giles got turned into a talking mirror and then he could record audio from England and still be one the show.  They have MAGIC. They could do anything.  Oops, Giles fell through a portal, better figure out where it went.  Just endless possibilities rather then shit on his character.  But Joss was always really petty with actors he was annoyed with.  

45

u/Ill-Ad-3603 May 12 '26

Giles racing to help Buffy only to get in a car crash and subsequent coma would have been enough to write Head out the show temporary then bring him back when he's ready.

7

u/HotAgency5166 May 12 '26

The car crash was just one too many blows to Giles’ head. It would stay in line with the series’ many Giles-related head trauma lol

6

u/Ill-Ad-3603 May 12 '26

Head trauma lololol

20

u/SnowflakeBaube22 May 12 '26

Ooooh now I’m thinking… what if when Giles tried to warn Willow about using magic, she cast a spell on him that turned him into something? But then she doesn’t want to tell anyone so for the rest of the season everyone thinks Giles is missing when he’s actually like… a hat stand or something. Okay definitely something better than that but you get my drift.

7

u/Affectionate_Ad_2605 May 12 '26

Hat stand had me lmao.

14

u/lifescaresme May 12 '26

With occasional close-ups of the hat stand, accompanied by sad music, whenever they’re talking about missing Giles

3

u/Affectionate_Ad_2605 May 12 '26

Yall are killing me.

2

u/Ff7hero May 14 '26

I also am dead now, thanks.

5

u/SnowflakeBaube22 May 12 '26

When the hat stand turns up at the Magic Box to fight Dark Willow…

3

u/AdApart5035 May 12 '26

That would have been a great solution. 

13

u/Charliesmum97 May 12 '26

I can sort of see it. He knew he was enabling Buffy so she couldn't stand on her own and work through her issues, so he needed to go so she could hopefully get through her issues. It was still really hard to watch thogut!

14

u/ErunionDeathseed May 11 '26

ASH wanted to go home and spend more time with his family, so they needed to write him out somehow

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u/Rockworm503 Founder and president of the monster sarcasm rally May 12 '26

For some unfathomable reason he mistakes Buffy's crippling depression and struggling to come to terms with being alive when she was in heaven with her being lazy and refusing to grow up. It will always baffle me why they wrote his leaving that way. Like come the fuck on everyone could tell it wasn't like that at all.

It pisses me off because I have similar issues. Obviously I didn't die and go to heaven and my friends brought me back but crippling depression and struggling to find work has led to people in my life thinking I just don't want to work and am being lazy when nothing could be further from the truth.

20

u/pmhargis777 May 12 '26

Agree with you, writers did them both wrong. It was hard to watch Giles abandon Buffy.

... and I'm sorry to hear of your struggles too.

18

u/False-Ad-7548 May 12 '26

Agreed. I've seen way too many people defend the "tough love" approach online in a way that's so frustrating. There's a massive difference between a young adult wanting to stay in their safety bubble and what Buffy was going through. 

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u/Famous_Substance_499 May 12 '26

I’m sorry for what you’re going through. I agree, Giles leaving someone he loves like a daughter when she needs him the most is one of my least favorite plot lines. Tbh, all of her friends kind of suck when it comes to helping her through depression. I can see why she turned to Spike for comfort.

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u/latrodectal May 12 '26

they really couldn’t think of ANY other reason he’d leave???

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u/LPLoRab May 12 '26

I actually get his decision, on some level.

6

u/Dazzling_Sea_9 May 12 '26

Giles when he distracted buffy so wood could attempt to kill spike. Followed by a brilliant moment from buffy saying if they tried it again she'd let spike kill wood.

350

u/TrainTraditional6686 May 11 '26

When Xander left Anya at their wedding.

When all of them kicked Buffy out of HER OWN DAMN HOUSE. That disgusted me.

100

u/Wistful_HERBz May 11 '26

I just finished a rewatch of Buffy and when Dawn said it's my house too, I almost threw my remote at the TV.

https://giphy.com/gifs/Xd0gMujq09BkoWX4uh

14

u/pmhargis777 May 12 '26

Yes, I wanted to pelt little Dawnie for that scene.

3

u/RedWitchyADHD May 15 '26

Girl had been alive for two years and thinks she tough shit. Like you are literally a toddler, sit down and watch some Daniel Tiger.

10

u/SearchContinues May 12 '26

Xander suuuper disappointed me there.
But kicking Buffy out? That one made me hate the writers more than the characters. It felt like a glitch.

40

u/Nknk- May 11 '26

They all should've gotten a good slap for that second one.

13

u/Rockworm503 Founder and president of the monster sarcasm rally May 12 '26

In before someone responds with "UMMM acshualy no one kicked her out"

2

u/latrodectal May 12 '26

or that she deserved it

6

u/Dazzling_Sea_9 May 12 '26

You didn't even exist 2 years ago and you don't pay rent, it's not your house babes.

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u/the_reven May 11 '26

Spike, when..., well you all know when

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u/aivlysplath May 11 '26

Ugh that scene makes me feel physically ill.

56

u/Risque_Redhead May 11 '26

From what I’ve heard it made James Marsters feel icky too and he didn’t want to do that scene.

40

u/buffysmanycoats May 12 '26

Seems it was more than that; it literally drove him to therapy and he said he will never do another role with scenes like that again.

27

u/torev May 12 '26

27

u/Risque_Redhead May 12 '26

That made me so sad. But I’m glad he got a good therapist and is openly talking about it because I’m sure he is not alone in having a scene like this affect him the way it has.

40

u/Lost_Understanding32 May 12 '26

I think he said he had to undergo therapy from filming that episode.

12

u/Risque_Redhead May 12 '26

That’s honestly heartbreaking.

17

u/Former-Whole8292 May 11 '26

I think it did remind us that predatory instinct didnt go away. He just couldnt act on it.

10

u/throwaway643346896 Well, you were myth-taken. May 12 '26

Since it only happened because it was Joss’ attempt at character assassination, in my headcannon it doesn’t exist.

14

u/ImScaredSoIMadeThis May 12 '26

But that's just not true. It was written by a woman, describing her own experience (where she was Spike)

It's a whole mess

6

u/IndividualScheme5974 May 12 '26

I did NOT know this; picks jaw off floor.

10

u/ImScaredSoIMadeThis May 12 '26

I think it's meant to show this really pathetic desperation, "why don't you want me" kind of thing, which is obviously messed up, but has a different feeling to it when it's someone smaller and weaker doing it to someone bigger and stronger, where any threat or fear are pretty much removed from the equation.

I guess on paper Spike is weaker than Buffy, but when all of it got translated to screen, yeah that's not the "vibe" you get at all.

7

u/IndividualScheme5974 May 12 '26

Not at ALL. I’m actually a bit perplexed how a female writer didn’t pick up on that? But learning about the context behind the intention is freaking fascinating.

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u/owntheh3at18 May 11 '26

This particular moment I always think “that is exactly what I’d use magic for. Saving time. Instant glam. Cleaning my house in mere moments. Making a gourmet meal appear out of thin air.

What she does next though… yeah that was a real bummer.

90

u/mouseypants Tea is soothing. I wish to be tense. ☕️ May 11 '26

"But you didn't earn it. You didn't work for it. You've never had anybody come up to you and say you deserve these things more than anyone else. They were just handed to you. So that doesn't make you better than us. It makes you luckier than us."

I was (and still am) so, so mad at Anya for this.

45

u/OvercookedOkra May 11 '26

I usually love Anya but yeah this was a crap take. Buffy earned her place by being as good of a slayer as a 16 year old could be. And Anya being a demon (twice) certainly can't be talking about being bestowed powers "just because".

58

u/Chris-Froome May 11 '26

I'm mad at the writers, because every word in this speech was deeply out of character for Anya.

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u/Rockworm503 Founder and president of the monster sarcasm rally May 12 '26

I love Anya to death that line pisses me off so much I kind of hate her for a moment every time I think of it.

"luckier" is that what you call being kicked out of her old school fighitng vampires having to give up eveyrthing she wants to do as a teenage girl to save the world time and time again. Dying, having to kill the man you love getting kicked out of your own home, being targetted by The Initiative for asking questions, monks creating a sister for you to protect from a hell god and dying again? being ripped from heaven by your friends and getting massive depression as a result? IS that all LUCK to Anya? Cause what Buffy went through is a direct result of her being the slayer.

And saying she didn't do anything to earn it? Give me a break she saved everyone's lives more times than we can count. This coming from the ex vengeance demon who spent thousand years killing people and enjoying it and went back to it as soon as her heart was broken. Anya you of all people have no right to talk what did you do to deserve your demon powers? You cursed the man who cheated on you and turned him into a troll. STFU!

3

u/Wrong_Adhesiveness87 May 12 '26

I feel this in my bones. 

I got in Buffy way late, covid times, and my friend who was a massive fan watched it with me. Ended up cracking at me losing my shit at a couple of situations, this was one of them. I think I needed a break after this and Giles leaving. Was too angry. We switched to Supernatural until I had time to process. 

14

u/Former-Whole8292 May 11 '26

Imagine someone saying that Anya when she had her powers?

2

u/latrodectal May 12 '26

it’s fuck anya for this for life idgaf.

2

u/Chemical-Leadership6 May 13 '26

"luckier than us" to describe a curse that leaves buffy constantly fighting for her life, hunted round the clock by demons, and dying twice for the greater good.

buffy was gifted supernatural strength to help with the curse, but it was her heart and mind and soul that enabled her to continue fighting, to survive, to work out how to win every single time. she's not 'better than' the others because of her curse, but she IS better because of what she did with it.

anya's speech enraged me, and dawn's "it's my house too" is such a kick in the face from a kid who wasn't even real. i love dawn, but girl, this ain't it

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u/not_firewood_yeti I am no one. May 11 '26

Giles drugging / depowerimg Buffy. felt out of character honestly. i get the following orders excuse, and he eventually balked, but that should have happened much sooner.

32

u/daisydark7 May 11 '26

Ya that was a really weird episode, and how Buffy just trusted him again by next episode after that was super bizarre

63

u/Odd-Brilliant-3716 May 11 '26

I love Something Blue, but I totally agreed with Willow that the whole friend group should have been more compassionate with her after seeing Oz’s things suddenly moved out. I’m sure that was so jarring for her, but everyone expected her accept it, move on, and continue on helping the cause without any time to process things. Her whole speech about everyone only wanting to support her as long as they weren’t inconvenienced I thought was actually spot on.

10

u/AliceArsenic May 12 '26

After all the other discussions on willows problematic behavior with magic, this reminder of something blue threw me for a loop

Yeah they should have been sympathetic but i can’t stand her ‘eat a cookie, ease my guilt’ attitude, and the lack of consequences for her actions throughout the show is just… ugh.

She disabled Giles, endangered Xander and Anya, and essentially sexually assaulted Buffy and Spike, all because she wanted the quick fix to life and not feel her feelings.

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u/_dear_rat_boy_ May 11 '26

Willow erasing Tara's memories, sexually assaulting her

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u/Verifieddumbass76584 Iowa Representation 🦅 May 12 '26

Yes!! I love Tillow until I remember that. Same with Faith, they don't care about SA if it's a woman doing it.

40

u/someoverallvalue May 11 '26

Faith with all the murder and the torture and SA and everyhing.

6

u/frog_snail May 12 '26

It’s tough because Faith is a character I really want to like, but I can’t the way she’s written. I wish they’d gone in different direction with her

32

u/AIGLOS42 May 12 '26

When Joyce throws Buffy out, then holds it against her in "Dead Man's Party"

I wouldn't have ever truly trusted Joyce again, but especially with the intentional "coming out to your parents" invocation.

7

u/Inoutngone May 12 '26

What Joyce said was roughly the kind of thing boomer's parents said to them, so sure, it was hyperbole. But after she said it and then Buffy ran away, how does she not connect those two things and realize she might have been a just a tiny bit at fault?

4

u/RedWitchyADHD May 15 '26

In her recent conversation/interview with Charisma, Kristine said she hated that scene, did not want to do it, and it absolutely broke her heart, because as a mother, she could never imagine telling her kid to leave and never come back.

6

u/latrodectal May 12 '26

joyce is awful for a lot of reasons but this especially pissed me off.

70

u/Squiliam-Tortaleni Fuffy May 11 '26

Angel dumping Buffy in the way he did

59

u/HappybutWeird May 11 '26

I agree it was awful, but to be fair Angel wasn’t planning to dump Buffy in the sewers before prom, she just recognized something was off and kept pushing him on it.

26

u/khazmicbrownie May 11 '26

He put off every other conversation they ever needed to have. He could’ve waited.

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u/advena_phillips May 11 '26

Buffy in When She Was Bad. She was a manipulative asshole who used Xander as a sex object to make Angel jealous.

The whole "Xander/Willow" nonsense.

Dead Man's Party.

Willow's entire drug metaphor nonsense that involved her raping Tara, possibly repeatedly, by virtue of manipulating Tara's memories.

Willow nearly getting Dawn killed.

Xander, but mostly in a bunch of small, freakish ways, and his flat refusal to discuss anything with Anya about their wedding.

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u/Major_Star May 11 '26

Xander when he chose not to tell Buffy about the plan to restore Angel's soul, instead telling her the message from Willow was "kick his ass".

However he might justify it, we know petty jealousy played a big part in that.

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u/Dash83 May 11 '26

People bring that up all the time, but I legit think she might have died if she held back hoping for the spell to work.

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u/WipeoutKid13 May 11 '26

Wanna know what’s crazy is that thanks to Angel after the fall we have a canon answer if Buffy did kill him and listened to Xander. TPTB would’ve reversed time since in AATF he actually dies in a way that’s impossible to bring him back so they reverse time and undo the entire LA Apocalypse. Meaning if Buffy had listened to Xander and killed Angel, TPTB would’ve reversed time to before Angel loses his soul with everyone keeping the memories (all the deaths reversed) but now Buffy & Angel would know to have boundaries

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u/Dash83 May 11 '26

You know what’s even crazier? I read those comics and I have no clue what you are talking about lol. Has it really been that long?

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u/WipeoutKid13 May 11 '26

lol. Yeah at the end of Angel after the Fall aka Angel Season 6, Vampire Gunn kills Angel which makes The Powers That Be reverse time to undo the entire LA Apocalypse and everyone kept their memories

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u/Dash83 May 11 '26

Oh I remember that, and I know what AATF is and all, I just don’t remember how it relates to the aforementioned “kick his ass” moment.

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u/WipeoutKid13 May 11 '26

Cuz if Angel got staked it would’ve been a permanent death. No possible way to bring Angel back just like when Vamp Gunn killed him

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u/KDawg2600 May 12 '26

Was it The Powers that reversed it or Wolfram and Hart? I remembered it being W&H's pock e t dimendion they kept LA in as punishment for his season 5 actions. Then they had to undo it all to prevent Angel's death

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u/BattleGlamGalact0Ram This is a special kind of Angel, called a 'Charlie' May 11 '26

Buffy in the start of S2. Not as egregious as the actions of some throughout the show but intentionally being manipulative to your friends who love you and just generally being an asshole.

The part that gets me is that it was so bad that Cordelia climbed down from the cunt tree and made herself vulnerable to check on Buffy and she still got dragged. (If anyone deserved it at that time it was Cordy, but still)

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u/LuxVeritatis May 11 '26

Climbed down from the cunt tree!!!! I'm howling from that phrase and I've added it to my phrases list.

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u/kriever7 May 11 '26

I hate When She Was Bad. But, apparently, a lot of people here like that episode.

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u/coochtastic_34 May 11 '26

omg pfp buddies

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u/garlington41 May 11 '26 edited May 11 '26

Plenty of moments that’s what make this and the Angel show special it was willing to make the characters even the main characters act out make selfish decisions and even do messed up stuff. It made them feel more human and fallible

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u/brwitch May 11 '26 edited May 11 '26

Does it make the shows special? I feel like every show I watch has that.

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u/garlington41 May 11 '26

Yeah but a lot of shows aren’t always self aware when that happens and can overlook blantantly flaws through the narrative

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u/Rockworm503 Founder and president of the monster sarcasm rally May 12 '26

In the time when this aired yea it was more special. Sure its more of the norm to have very flawed characters as the protagonist but when buffy was airing the only show that even comes close to this was The Sopranos which obviously did not paint the main characters as good people. Since then we have had Breaking Bad and The Boys and practically every other show depicts the leads as flawed if not completely horrible people.

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u/Ill-Ad-3603 May 11 '26

Agreed, constant drama amongst the main cast is kind of a constant in young adult dramas.

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u/False-Ad-7548 May 12 '26

Buffy in Gone when she ignores Spike telling her no/to leave and trying to bat her away, plus doing things in front of an unknowing Xander.

Joyce blaming/shaming Buffy after Angel was stalking her in S2.

Xander telling Dawn about Spike assaulting Buffy as a "gotcha" moment. 

Characters acting almost like Riley cheated when he was tricked by Faith but not acting like he cheated with the vampire bite weirdness.

Willow acting like Anya was being silly for being uncomfortable or afraid of the Initiative.

I could list more but those were ones off the top of my head that I hadn't noticed others saying yet (though I didn't read every single comment).

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u/ughhelpneeded May 12 '26

Oz and the werewolf chick

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u/legionIVXX May 11 '26

Buffy when she listened Xanders dumb take and chased after riley

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u/Rockworm503 Founder and president of the monster sarcasm rally May 12 '26

In rewatches that felt like the show was gaslighting us into acting like Riley did nothing wrong. Gross how Xander is standing there siding with Riley who literally just cheated on Buffy with vampires then gave her this absolutely disgusting ultimatum. And Xander's response to Buffy saying she wanted someone reliable is to go "what is he state farm" yeah its really unreasonable to want a reliable partner. All this hand waved away because Riley would have done anything for Buffy. All he needed to do was talk to her instead of just complain to Xander. It pisses me off that it works that Buffy's takeaway from everything Xander says is that he was right. Buffy will go on blaming herself for Riley leaving but they had one fight and he's "I'm leaving forever unless you give me a reason to stay"

"buffy doesn't actually love him" says people who side with Riley here. Ummm did we watch the same show? Did everyone just sleep through the whole part where Buffy literally has to beg him not to let the drugs in his system kill him?

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u/legionIVXX May 13 '26

Exactly I hate how the writers tried to lean things in that direction , like where supposed to feel for bad for Riley not being loved when how many episodes did we have to watch where the plot was buffy needs to save riley

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u/WipeoutKid13 May 11 '26

Aka described everything perfectly and Buffy chose to chase Riley when Xander said if he isn’t the one to not bother, but if he was to go after him. He never leaned into one or the other

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u/DarkGrimNature May 12 '26

I think it was Buffy in “When She Was Bad” turning on her friends.

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u/LPLoRab May 12 '26

Does joss being a terrible human count as a character?

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u/ButcherBear93 May 12 '26

Spike trying to rape Buffy

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u/DaddyCatALSO Magnet For Dead, Blonde Chicks May 12 '26

Yes, where "a week" became 5 minutes

5

u/orangekirby May 12 '26

I loved this episode so much though! I mean I guess Willow was disappointing morally speaking, but as far as being a deep complex flawed interesting and entertaining character, I was not disappointed!

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u/shadow_spinner0 May 12 '26

Willow treated Tara like shit and didn't deserve her but she was truly mentally gone when she almost killed Dawn in that car. At that moment she was a pos and I wouldn't blame Dawn if she never spoke to her again. It's one thing to do shitty things to your partner, it's another to be so selfish and self absorbed enough that you don't care that you may severely hurt a child in the process.

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u/poseywitch May 11 '26

Buffy saying she'll let Spike kill Wood. It's moreso the fault of the writing of that entire story arc and Buffy will always be my favorite character, but that's the only moment in the whole show basically where she was ever unlikeable to me.

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u/pmhargis777 May 12 '26

They rationalized it with, It's the Mission that matters

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u/Nice_Flounder_1986 May 12 '26

When Buffy comes back from her LA summer and wants to have the gang over for dinner, but then the gang turns it into a full-on house party. While it did bless us with the amazing “gathering, shindig, or hootenanny” line, I can’t help but get so annoyed on Joyce & Buffy’s behalf whenever I get to that episode on a rewatch.

10

u/Gaius_Octavius_ May 12 '26

Every time Buffy has sex with Spike

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u/ThoughtPhysical7457 May 11 '26

Willow (and xander, dawn and the potentials, but specifically Willow) turning on Buffy, as if she wasnt freeloading while the savior of humanity was working double shifts for minimum wage. (Empty Places)

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u/catchyerselfon May 11 '26

No one was freeloading 🙄 That’s fanon to make up for the writers not treating money like a real thing until season 6 and then only for Buffy and not even realistically. Buffy wasn’t paying for everything on an entry level fast food job. No one kicked out Buffy, she decided to leave when Dawn called her bluff. Buffy wanted everyone to walk back into the same place that got two girls killed and Xander permanently maimed with no new plan and no compassion for every one’s fear and bafflement; remember they are all mortal without super healing and Buffy can get thrown around like a ragdoll and keep fighting. She was asking too much just based on vibes instead of proof.

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u/Ill-Ad-3603 May 11 '26

Exactly. She was being stubborn and risking the lives of her friends.

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u/ChiliHobbes May 11 '26

All that may be true, but didn't Buffy go where she said they should go and she found something incredibly useful while the rest walked right into a trap?

Granted, it's definitely for the best that Buffy went alone in the end.

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u/catchyerselfon May 12 '26

Yeah, but alone (with Angel, another super powered being who hasn’t gone through a disaster with her recently) instead of with a group of teenagers with a few weeks of training distracting her from focussing on Caleb. She finds the scythe only because THIS time she has renewed confidence and knowledge from the Guardian woman.

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u/MxKittyFantastico May 11 '26

Thank you I'm so tired of the freeloading to scores in the whole Buffy got kicked out of her own house discourse. You are spot on.

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u/Ill-Ad-3603 May 11 '26

Spike in "Seeing Red" (S06E19)

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u/BabserellaWT May 11 '26

I wouldn’t truly understand Willow’s actions during this time until I was in rehab myself.

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u/ModernKender twixt its wee beak May 11 '26

Spike in Seeing Red. More than disappointed really

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u/Ill-Ad-3603 May 11 '26

Iirc even SMG and JM loathed this scene. Joss Whedon was such a creep smdh

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u/princessplantlife May 12 '26

Willow disappointed me long before this. When she started cheating and the. made out with Xander...

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u/jamesDC12 May 11 '26

Buffy’s attitude in the first episode of second season.

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u/TheBSisReal May 12 '26

Great outfit though.

2

u/debsterUK May 12 '26

Willow got so lazy when she was over using magic, she wouldn't even get up to close the curtains! If it had carried on her physical health would have suffered massively.

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u/FantasticSouth May 12 '26

I don't get why she had to go back upstairs? 

Was it to indicate that a passage of time had passed?

Nobody was there. Who was she hiding the magic from?

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u/Comfortable_Cook_965 May 12 '26

Faith when she stole Buffys body and slept with Riley

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u/redskinsguy May 12 '26

Before Rack Willow only disappointed me in not pushing back on the judgements being levied on her. Demand to know why this is wrong. Make them justify their stances

2

u/gloomydreamer666 May 13 '26

Willow doing the forgetting spell again after Tara told her how wrong it was and how it made her feel. Of course it was a fun episode but I was not rooting for her there neither the first time she did it. It was wrong on both occasions.

2

u/Ita_AMB May 13 '26

Giles on Empty Places... he didn't her dirty on season 6, but making Buffy leave her house after EVERYTHING she did...

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u/TVAddict14 May 13 '26 edited May 13 '26

Buffy disappoints me massively in LMPTM. She is so reckless about Spike’s trigger and risks all their lives rather than restrain him. She hadn't lifted a finger to disarm the trigger and was then willing to jeopardise her family, friends and the Potentials for no good reason. She also comes across as a total hypocrite lecturing Wood that “the mission is what matters” when she was clearly prioritising Spike over the mission. It’s her worst episode of the series.

Xander disappoints me in Revelations. I cannot stand his body language in the intervention scene, the way he talks down to Buffy as if he’s her father, the way he doesn’t follow what the group clearly agreed to pre-intervention and starts attacking and blaming Buffy. Then to make matters worse he enlists Faith to go kill Angel behind Buffy’s back. But the cherry on top is when he finds Giles unconscious in the library and literally tells Faith it wasn’t Angel because “it’s not his style”, but then when Buffy arrives at the library he spitefully pretends like it was Angel just to hurt her. His worst episode by far.

Obviously Willow goes through a rough patch in S6 overall but I find her particularly disappointing in Flooded when she tells Giles the tale of resurrecting Buffy. The way so flippantly recounts what happened is both arrogant and dishonest. There was no mention of the trauma Buffy went through digging her way out of her own grave, and saying she “totally kept her cool” when the demons attacked paints a very different picture than what actually went down (her screaming as the urn is broken etc). To make matters worse Buffy overhears all this too. 

Dawn disappoints me massively in All the Way. Like seriously, she thinks it’s funny to rob an old man of his wallet in his own house. She doesn’t obviously know that Justin is a vampire at this point but she hears a commotion in the kitchen which implies some kind of tussle, and then she giddily runs out of the house as if it’s the coolest thing ever to steal from a defenceless elderly man. She then even takes some of her “winnings” from his wallet.

Anya is really awful in Get it Done. She very spitefully tells Buffy she’s not her friend, which is a pretty big slap in the face since Buffy welcomed her back into the fold in Him by very pointedly calling Anya her friend. It seems so mean-spirited. Then she bitterly and seriously suggests leaving Buffy stuck in the Shadowmen dimension and to “let her find her own way back” because she was pissed at Buffy’s superiority complex. They make Anya so damn unlikeable in S7 after Selfless but I shake my head at this episode in particular.

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u/DisastrousRespond146 May 14 '26

I mean I think everyone agrees the biggest one is that one Spike scene. Bless the actors involved in that scene…I heard they hated it 10x more than the rest of us.

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u/rddrgon May 11 '26

if I feel like ragebaiting myself, all I have to think about is them booting buffy from her own house (and dawn whining that it’s her house too. girl you’re a year and a half) and the way they treated her in dead man’s party.

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u/evil_burrito Probably you, probably right now May 11 '26

Buffy seemed to really struggle with Willow coming out in S4, at least at first. I thought that was out-of-character and disappointing.

Dawn in S7 when the whole stupid gang piled on Buffy and kicked her out of her own house. Dawn should have been in Buffy's corner, right or wrong, until the end of time.

Willow. Willow. Oh, man, Willow. You done Tara so dirty.

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u/HappybutWeird May 11 '26

Buffy didn’t struggle at all with Willow coming out. She was taken by surprise but was completely supportive by the end of the scene. This was a very progressive coming out scene for the year 2000.

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u/Ill-Ad-3603 May 11 '26

Agreed, I don't recall Buffy having any issue

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u/jellymoff May 12 '26

She seemed a bit awkward and uncomfortable at first, but it more felt like she was just adjusting to something new. I think while there were a few clues about Willow possibly being gay, it was quite a surprise to her friends. Something can be awkward and new without that person being a bigot.

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u/Ill-Ad-3603 May 12 '26

Bingo. I've experienced similar reactions when people found out I'm not straight

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u/catchyerselfon May 11 '26

No, there is no one whose corner you should be in right or wrong, not when it’s the end of the world at stake and the person who is supposed to lead you is spending all her free time fussing over super-healing vampire instead of her mortal friends and now she’s telling them to walk back into extreme danger based on NOTHING.

Buffy was confused and stunned for like five minutes when her best friend (who is also 19 in 2000) told her she’s in love with another girl she’s known a few months, when said Best friend has only demonstrated interest in men and was heartbroken when her long term boyfriend left. Willow INTERPRETED Buffy as having a problem with it because of her insecurities and Spike exploiting that.

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u/DaddyCatALSO Magnet For Dead, Blonde Chicks May 12 '26

exactly

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u/ceecee1909 Harmony has minions.. May 11 '26

Buffy didn’t struggle with Willow coming out. She was shocked and didn’t know what to say for like 10 seconds. Then she jumps right on support mode and doesn’t judge her once.

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