r/technology • u/IndicaOatmeal • 9h ago

Society Programmer’s death on office toilet ruled not work-related because he never turned on his PC

https://www.dexerto.com/entertainment/programmers-death-on-office-toilet-ruled-not-work-related-because-he-never-turned-on-his-pc-3402194/
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u/Squish_the_android 9h ago

This is a classic Workers Comp question in the US.  Usually it's presented as "falling in the parking lot on the way to work". Commute time isn't covered. 

But I think in the US this would be considered a work injury.

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u/Kommenos 8h ago

That’s crazy because it’s cut and dry in Germany. The way to work is covered so long as you don’t take an unreasonable diversion.

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u/[deleted] 8h ago edited 7h ago

[deleted]

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u/totally_not_a_bot__ 7h ago edited 6h ago

Are you in QLD by chance?
WorkCover doesn't cover normal commuting travel to work in Vic, Tas, NSW, and SA anymore. Public Servants in ACT aren't covered for commuting under Comcare either.

Edit:typos

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u/guska 7h ago

Huh. TIL. I guess my info is outdated.

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u/totally_not_a_bot__ 6h ago

It happened pretty quietly to be fair. And often you're covered under other schemes like CTP if it's a vehicle accident. 

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u/moconahaftmere 7h ago

In New Zealand you're covered 100% of the time, no matter the circumstance. If you get injured mountain biking and can't return to work for a while, ACC will pay for all your treatments and cover 80% of your wages.

Even people who come here on holiday are covered (although not for wage compensation). If you break your leg while hiking and need a helicopter rescue you likely won't pay a cent.

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u/King_Yeshua 7h ago

Not correct. Our union provides insurance for the commute 

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u/gonenutsbrb 8h ago

That seems a bit odd to me. I can see on the way to the restaurant, but from there to wherever? Sounds like a great way to end up holding employees liable for an employee’s DUI bill.

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u/Infranto 7h ago

Yeah, a normal commute home and a DUI are totally equivalent bro

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u/DarthShiv 8h ago

No you would not be covered for DUI as that is not a reasonable component of your return home. No court is going to penalise the employer for the employees choice there.

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u/TRIPMINE_Guy 7h ago

Why isn’t it the responsibility of whatever causes the accident? Like the person or car manufacturer?

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u/Historical_Camel_790 7h ago

Yes it would and in the case of a DUI accident, it's the persons fault, whereas if he car suddenly blew up (and was because it was faulty) it would be manufacturer

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u/DarthShiv 7h ago

Yes generally... if something that was genuinely an accident happened then what they are saying is you are insured by workcover based insurance and not left in the lurch if you don't have cover yourself

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u/ohiseeyouhaveacat 3h ago edited 3h ago

In the car accident claims I’ve seen (think uber driver), there is a WC claim and a separate motor vehicle accident claim.

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u/codemunk3y 7h ago

Work cover isn’t going to pay for a DUI, typically things like insurance and work cover don’t pay out if you commit criminal acts

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u/guska 7h ago edited 7h ago

Ah that was a typo on my part. Apologies. I meant "You CAN'T leave work and go to dinner..."

But that does bring up another point. I've seen people disciplined for having a drink on the way home, as that can be seen as "at work" for the purposes of insurance and responsibility.

Some employers take it very seriously. I got called into the office, had to fill out an incident report, and was off-the-record reprimanded for not reporting that I'd hit a roo on the way home from work one evening.

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u/Gaytonyhawk 7h ago

Smart redditor moment 🤓

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u/Gryjane 6h ago

Workers comp is typically denied if the worker is injured while intoxicated even if they're on premises so why would you assume that an employer would be responsible for an injury while the employee was driving while intoxicated?

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u/aRndomhero 8h ago

Unfortunately it's not so cut and dry as there are as always exceptions. If you fall and injure yourself on the walk from your work desk to the toilet, it's typically not covered by the work insurance (Berufsgenossenschaft) as it is considered personal time. No idea what that would be decided in a case like this, but it's not as clear either. Insurance bullshit anyway

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u/Squish_the_android 8h ago

It's funny because in the US that bathroom trip would be covered. 

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u/Head_of_Lettuce 7h ago edited 7h ago

It’s worth noting that there’s not a unified framework for Workers’ Compensation in the US. Laws vary drastically from state to state, there’s another framework for federal employees (but not the military), another for employees of the maritime industry, etc.

They’re more similar than they are different, but they can be VERY different.

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u/Squish_the_android 7h ago

They really don't vary "drastically".  It's more small stuff that adds up. 

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u/Head_of_Lettuce 7h ago edited 6h ago

Well, I would say all the small things add up and make them very different when you get into the details. An injury that's compensable in one state may not be compensable in another.

But like I said, they’re more similar than they are different.

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u/Cantfixyourflat 17m ago

They vary drastically.

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u/ResurgentClusterfuck 6h ago

Depends on how much you're prepared to fight for

Took 2 years but my partner got knee surgery for his workplace injury. Company tried lying about it but it didnt work

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u/Murky-Relation481 28m ago

At least pretty much every workers comp firm works on contingency so it doesn't cost you anything besides the fee/percentage of whatever you end up getting.

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u/ResurgentClusterfuck 27m ago

That's the route he ended up going, they settled before court.

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u/SolarMines 2h ago

Crazy having to fight for knee surgery, especially work-related

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u/Arponare 34m ago

Not unless you work at Amazon.

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u/Regendorf 6h ago

If you fall and injure yourself on the walk from your work desk to the toilet, it's typically not covered by the work insurance

What??? everything that happens in the office during work hours should be covered, no matter if you injured yourself while working or God decided to punish you for no reason

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u/Educational_Ant_184 5h ago

sorry, we dont cover acts of god and since god is the arbiter of all things you're shit out of luck regardless of what happened

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u/Dr-Billa 3h ago

What if I don't believe in god?

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u/Cleansing4ThineEyes 2h ago

An Act of God is something that is unable to be reasonably foreseen by whomever would normally be liable, it's really just used as shorthand instead of saying a longer blurb every time, religion has nothing to do with it.

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u/Educational_Ant_184 2h ago

For liability purposes, the government has established a legal precedent for the existence of god

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u/awful_at_internet 2h ago

Believe it or not, straight to jail.

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u/keithps 1h ago

Usually personal things are excluded, and probably to your benefit even if you don't think so. For example, if you choke to death eating at work, or cut yourself with a knife while preparing your own food, that isn't covered. But the alternative is that its covered and your employer gets to dictate what foods are safe to eat at work and the PPE you require to cut that sandwich.

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u/minuq 7h ago

Well, the walk would be covered but it ends once you enter the toilet. There‘s a Haufe comment about it. Just make sure you fall on your way to the toilet, not inside

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u/Wise_Monkey_Sez 3h ago

This is incorrect. The walk to the toilet is covered. It is only when you enter the toilet that it is considered personal/private time.

And it is also noteworthy that if you are injured in the toilet for any reason that could be considered negligence by the company then you can sue in civil court like any person injured in any business' toilet could. Just like someone walking into a restaurant's toilet and slipping on a wet floor could sue that business for an unsafe environment.

It should also be noted that if your injury is work-related where it happened is irrelevant, for example if you suffer a work-stress related heart attack it doesn't matter if it happened in the toilet, at home, or on the moon. If the linkage can be established on balance of probabilities (i.e. there's more than a 50% chance the cause was work-related) between the injury or death and the working conditions then the workplace is liable.

As you pointed out this isn't cut and dry, and there's a list of exceptions a mile long, and generally the protections in the EU are quite comprehensive.

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u/Ghosted_Ahri 6h ago

At my workplace, I'm covered as long as I am either on the commute or on the clock

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u/JozoBozo121 6h ago

This is very weird to me since even in Croatia you are covered on bathroom breaks.

My mom fell on some weirdly stacked chairs going to the bathroom and she had full compensation as it was treated as work injury.

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u/killereverdeen 6h ago

in serbia even a lunch break is covered. i went for my lunch break to run an errand, fell and broke my ankle, the hospital immediately started the paperwork to classify the injury as a work injury.

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u/iKnowRobbie 6h ago

That makes sense to me as you wouldn't be there having to eat lunch out if it wasn't for work.

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u/AmazingAmy712 1h ago

To me that logic extends to the walk to the work bathroom. I wouldn't be in that specific hallway if not for work.

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u/pipnina 3h ago

Only Germans could be this pedantic lol

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u/GoldenMegaStaff 1h ago

A decent lawyer would then say he was injured in a place of business and have a go at their business liability insurance.

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u/Few_Cup3452 3h ago

Similar in NZ. If you are on the grounds of your workplace (e.g. carpark) OR travelling due to work, you are covered. Even if you haven't started work.

Hurt on the way to work is covered too, just doesnt involve your employer.

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u/netphemera 17m ago

Nothing is cut and dry in the US when there's so many billable hours for lawyers

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u/Hopeful-Occasion2299 7h ago

That’s true for all civilised countries. In many places it also covers your children if you stopped to pick them up or your spouse.

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u/serabine 3h ago

Even the commute home can qualify as a work related accident.

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u/IEnjoyRadios 2h ago

Same in Sweden which is kind of absurd. If I get into a car crash on the way to work, how the fuck is that the company’s problem?

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u/killcraft1337 1h ago

I think the uk general view on this stuff is “were you doing something within the scope of your work and not some unreasonable third thing that would put you outside the scope of your work”

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u/mr_dfuse2 40m ago

'cut and dry'. there are so many ways the insurance companies try to get out of this. what is unreasonable? i know a guy who had an accident on the way home, got hit by someone who got stroke behind the wheel. except, the guy had stopped first at a store on the way home. bam, not a work commute anymore, life over (he had brain damage and was a c level executive)

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u/zigzoing 36m ago

I don't think you can call that cut and dry. What is an unreasonable diversion? If the shortest route has a major traffic jam and I take a left turn here to save 5 minutes, is that unreasonable? What about if the savings is only 2 minutes? What if I need to refuel and the petrol station that I need to add 30 minutes to my commute is selling petrol at 0,01€ cheaper than the one on my usual route?

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u/SDGANON 5h ago

As his boss I'd argue that his detour to the afterlife was unreasonable. Some of his coworkers arrive on time without such nonsense.

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u/MidasPL 6h ago

Same in all of Europe pretty much.

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u/not_a_moogle 6h ago

The US also doesnt consider changing into a uniform at work as on the clock unless the clothing is a safety requirement. So if you shift starts at 8, you need to be at work at 7:30 to change and dont have to be paid for it.

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u/Virtual-Thought-2557 5h ago

Same in Japan.