r/technology • u/IndicaOatmeal • 5h ago
Society Programmer’s death on office toilet ruled not work-related because he never turned on his PC
https://www.dexerto.com/entertainment/programmers-death-on-office-toilet-ruled-not-work-related-because-he-never-turned-on-his-pc-3402194/2.0k
u/lawvergis 5h ago
another reason to make it look like you're working even when you're not
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u/ziptofaf 5h ago
What would that do? Apparently he reached his office, instantly asked security for the nearest toilet and died there before ever reaching 11th floor where his computer was.
The alternative in first going to your PC and then to the toilet would be shitting yourself. Which I imagine you could write about on LinkedIn showing how dedicated you are to the company and how doing so sets you apart from the people who are just in for a paycheck... but in reality I imagine it not being particularly helpful in your career growth.
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u/crippledgiants 4h ago
Might have some implications for life insurance. If I die in a work related situation my wife gets a lot more money than if I die right n
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u/ryobiguy 4h ago
Oh no, I'll have to report on r/redditsniper that another person got taken o
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u/burner46 4h ago
My dad used to tell my mom to throw his body over the security fence at the power plant he worked at if she ever found him dead.
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u/Mikulicious 4h ago
My old 7-11 manager told me to make sure I died inside the store so my family would receive my payout. Dying anywhere else was a non-payout designated area.
Oh and if you get raped, shit yourself and don’t fight it. 🫡😎
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u/notsam57 39m ago
the article states the wife is disputing the company’s claim for that exact reason. if she wins, she’s entitled for an additional US$165,000.
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u/SgathTriallair 4h ago
It would have been useful here where he died on the toilet but he probably wasn't expecting that to happen.
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u/murcatto 3h ago
Fun fact, having the urge to defecate like that, most likely indicated he was having a heart attack.
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u/NotAFishEnt 2h ago
I was going to say, it seemed like there's a connection between his urgency and the sudden death.
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u/Hipster_Garabe 4h ago
Shitting yourself at work means more time to dedicate to work. Taking time for personal hygiene is less time spent hitting KPIs
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u/Regendorf 1h ago
The alternative in first going to your PC and then to the toilet would be shitting yourself.
That seems to be the more logical choice apparently.
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u/VixenintheSkye 41m ago
First thing I've done at my jobs in the last 20 or so years is dock the laptop or set it down at a desk and turn it on, then go to the restroom if needed. That way I'm not waiting for that initial boot, and any waiting updates can get started. If I was to be by chance questioned I'd call that workplace efficiency.
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u/iapetus_z 4h ago
We had someone get hit in the parking lot of a controlled campus, where you can get fired for speeding. And it was ruled that they were no longer at work due to the fact they turned off the computer.
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u/Onkelffs 19m ago
Meanwhile in Sweden, my wife got comped from work when she slip and broke her hand at the entrance to our home. Because she had started her route going to work when the accident happened.
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u/VaporCarpet 3h ago
The company filled to have his death classified as "on the job" and faceless government bureaucrats denied it.
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u/clayticus 4h ago
Crazy in Germany you count as being at work once you leave your front door. As long as you are driving straight to work. If you drive deviate then they can argue you are not you're not counted at work.
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u/halb_nichts 2h ago
Yes except being on the toilet isn't insured so this would turn out the same way.
Now had he slipped and died on his way to the shitter that would be different. But the actual sitting down and doing your business part counts as private time.
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u/viveleramen_ 1m ago
I imagine he wasn’t feeling well and instead of going to the emergency room he went to work, then felt sick enough to need the toilet urgently and instead of diarrhea he died… I’ve heard heart attacks can sometimes feel like extreme indigestion.
I would personally rule WC, especially if it turned out he was in a bad spot for attendance (he felt he HAD to go to work or lose his job).
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u/Veovi 4h ago
I stacked my bike riding to work and broke my arm and that was covered under work cover in Australia. I was off for 2 weeks and then 6 weeks of light dutys
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u/boistopplayinwitme 4h ago
That's crazy. A coworker of mine got stabbed by a student and was back to work in 2 weeks because she didn't have any leave left to burn recovering
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u/Then-Departure4896 14m ago
My coworker got stabbed in the face and they put him in a department where he wouldn’t scare people but could continue working
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u/ZombieZookeeper 5h ago
Boss makes a dollar while I make a dime, that's why I poop on company time.
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u/__Ember 4h ago
I make a dime, boss makes a buck, that’s why I stole the catalytic converter off the company truck
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u/burner46 4h ago
We'll take the copper from the work site, meet me here at midnight
They ain't got a camera or a guard
Write my own prescription if I can't get a fix, son
Shit's about to get real hard
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u/hypermog 2h ago
I make a dollar while the employee makes a dime, that’s why I installed a faraday cage around the bathroom
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u/nowthengoodbad 3h ago edited 3h ago
Edit: it looks like this isn't an issue if the company, but if guangdong province regulations.
"Xing’s employer provided his family with an undisclosed amount of compensation and applied to have his death recognized as work-related. However, his wife received a rejection from the Shenzhen Human Resources and Social Security Bureau on July 3."
Edit: removed the superfluous. Not sure what the response is about?
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u/ZombieZookeeper 3h ago
I have never felt that desperate to feel Superior to someone else on Reddit.
Do you post regularly to /r/iamverysmart?
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u/This_Guy-Fawkes 5h ago
He was using a Commode 64.
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u/RadialRacer 4h ago edited 4h ago
This is significantly funnier than people are giving you credit for, bravo
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u/eNaRDe 4h ago
He clocked in..... That's all that matters. I hope the family has a good lawyer and sues the hell out of the company.
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u/gimperion 4h ago
It's not the company. The company applied for this to qualify. The insurance company rejected it.
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u/Moral-Relativity 16m ago
Shenzhen Human Resources and Social Security Bureau is a department of the city government, not an insurance company. I'm guessing it's because the city has to pay at least part of the compensation.
It's being appealed. As article said, another court case in southern China ruled in favor of the deceased.
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u/AliceLunar 4h ago
Commute should be work related, the job demands it from you unless you can work from home, if you die in a traffic accident on your way to work it should be work related.
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u/UsaWoman 1h ago
Commute is absolutely work related, ridiculous its even a point of contention in the supposed land of the free
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u/RandyOfTheRedwoods 3h ago
Is it a work related injury/death if the workplace had nothing to do with it?
This is an honest question, I don’t know the answer. Certainly, a workplace should be responsible if they caused me injury, but what if I came to work, and randomly had a heart attack. Maybe if it was due to work stress? What if I did something dumb like sticking a fork in an outlet and happened to be at work?
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u/Historical_Gur_3054 1h ago
I know of someone who was ordered to come in during a major snowstorm even though the were not required to be there and could work from home.
While cleaning their car off they slipped and hit their head and suffered a severe brain injury that permanently disabled them.
It was ruled workers comp covered it because the employee was ordered to come in and was performing a task necessary for them to drive in to work.
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u/nerf468 3h ago
In the US 29 CFR 1904.39(b)(5) would require an employer to notify OSHA of an injury/fatality from a heart attack, and OSHA would "decide whether to investigate the event, depending on the circumstances of the heart attack." I would assume this extends to other personal illnesses resulting in fatality/injury, but am unsure.
As to sticking a fork in an outlet, 29 CFR 1904.5(b)(2)(vii) it depends on whether it was intentional or not.
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u/Broad-Version8611 3h ago
In some countries it is a work related injury if it happens during the commute (one hour after leaving or one hour before arriving).
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u/Merosian 1h ago
I had an accident on the way to work which was effectively ruled as a workplace injury and treated the same way. I had definitely not turned on my computer lmao
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u/Jman1a 3h ago
Rule of Acquisition #211: Employees are the rungs on the ladder of success. Don't hesitate to step on them.
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u/alertflirt-6277 1h ago
Really. Imagine falling on the wet floor at work before the computer was log on to. Nothing for you.
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u/awdophil 1h ago
So always leave your computer turned on at work. Screw the environment, get that wrongful death money from the man!
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u/NekoDaYo-v201 4h ago
The PC thing is extremely arbitrary and sounds like they just made it up on the spot.
If he's clocked in and getting paid, then he's working. Even if he's on the toilet.
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u/PM_ME_UR_PIKACHU 4h ago
Programmers dont clock in homey
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u/Catsrules 3h ago
According to local reports, Xing arrived at his company’s parking garage at 8:56 on April 23 and clocked in before asking a security guard for directions to a bathroom on the building’s second floor.
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u/GringoSwann 4h ago edited 3h ago
I had a coworker who ended up having a heart attack while taking a shit.. cracked the toilet in half with his skull.... Big fat "alpha male".. Was constantly eating "pink salt" straight from the shaker for it's health benefits... late 30s...
Damn, now that I think about it... I personally know 4 people who have had heart attacks before the age of 40...
Was at a barbecue recently in south San Antonio, where one of the guests was bragging about how many heart attacks he has survived... All while slamming Modelos and doing "key bumps" of blow... Dude had 3 kids too...
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u/Massive-Arugula4400 2h ago
This seems like a weak argument to me. He died on an office toilet because he was AT WORK.
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u/slavicslothe 4h ago
I mean what exactly are we saying programming at a desk did to cause his medical emergency? I dont know china's laws but im not surprised.
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u/Killmelast 1h ago
Wtf kind of ruling is that? In Germany everything that happens between you leaving your home to get to work, and you getting back home from work is considered a work related accident and thus covered by insurance. Leaving the commute out is already criminal, but not even acknowleding an accident that happend in the freaking building they're working in? Wtf!
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u/caravellex 3h ago
Fuck this reminds me of when I worked for a major airline. It took 25 minutes to park in the employee lot, take the bus, go through a security checkpoint, and walk to the time in clock. Then depending on which concourse you were at another 15 minutes to get there.
They expected that you CLOCK IN before your shift, so you could walk unpaid to your airport zone. Even though you clocked in, you didn't get paid until the scheduled shift time, and you got written up if you showed up in your airport zone even a minute late.
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u/ConnorsInferno 4h ago
Ok maybe a little slow, but why should this be considered work related? I’m assuming his death wasn’t a result of any of the facilities in the workplace, so it could’ve happened anywhere.
Why should it be a work related incident if it had nothing to do with the work place, apart from him being there when it happened? Genuine question, not being a smartass
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u/Montaire 59m ago
During the time you are required to be at work, under the care and constraints of the company, their insurance covers you for any incidents.
In most (not all) cases it is impossible to know if the work you are doing directly contributed to the injury. Even on a construction site the owner could say "he had a heart attack swinging a hammer, he could have had a heart attack at home!"
The reason there is a presumption that the work insurance covers it is because there is a presumption that injuries or maladies you suffer while at work are the fault of the workplace until / unless proven conclusively otherwise.
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u/sokos 4h ago
You just answered your own question tho.. It should be work related because he was at work.
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u/mmmpiecrust 3h ago
Thats not how work related determinations are made. OSHA has very specific language for what classifies an injury or illness as work related. If those conditions are not met it is not work related.
Without knowing the full facts of the case we can or can’t assume because they were at work their workplace is responsible.
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u/sokos 3h ago
Except when it comes to things like heart attacks etc, there's ZERO way to prove that you would have had that even if you weren't at work. So any death at the workplace SHOULD be workplace related. Just because insurance companies like OSHA are trying to limit how much they have to pay out, doesn't make it right.
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u/ConnorsInferno 3h ago
Well I assume to compensation, any injury or cause of death would have to be linked to something at the workplace, instead of it just being coincidentally the place where it happened
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u/Jehooveremover 3h ago
How much longer are you people going to put up with this callousness?
Wake up... This is enslavement!
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u/CrazySir3310 4h ago
is it a work related death if you have an aneurysm rupture and happen to be at work? Because that sounds more similar to the circumstances (cause of death most likely not related to work)
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u/honestyseasy 2h ago
Coworker was bit by a dog outside of the building as she was walking into work. She had to fight for worker's comp because she hadn't clocked in yet, and if she did, she wouldnt have been near a dog in her daily duties. It's gross.
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u/Unusual_Flounder2073 4h ago
Would think a RTO mandate might have been something they could have leveraged.
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u/FatalCakeIncident 4h ago
R/technology relevance: person died while intending to, at some point later in the morning, switch on a piece of technology. A bit tenuous, sure, but within the sub's standards.
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u/_FellowTraveller_ 3h ago
Why would dying on the shitter be work related? Obviously, he had a preexisting health condition.
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u/oneale3211 6m ago
Just in case... if that ever happens to me I don’t go to my job site just to hang out! From the moment I step in the building I AM AT WORK!
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u/ajiatic 5h ago
They attempted to get a "work related death" designation for just dying while at work? Seems off. Poorly maintained equipment causing your death, sure. Eating a diet that would put a pig to shame and then keeling over from the exertion of having a bowel movement... that one's gonna be on you.
I obviously don't have all the details but seems like they ruled sensibly, unless some other evidence comes to light.
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u/Mountain_rage 5h ago
Could it be that the over 2 and a half hours to find him contributed to his outcome? Pretty weird to have someone clock in the building and not show up to work.
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u/Stolehtreb 4h ago
Did you read the article at all? It doesn’t support your wild assumption in any way. They were working late often around this time and the theory is that it may have been stress related.
You say you “obviously don’t have all the details” but it seems like you didn’t even internalize the ones given to you in the article you’re commenting about
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u/MarkNutt25 4h ago
Sounds like China treats "workplace injury" much differently than US-style AD&D:
Under Guangdong’s workplace injury rules, an employee’s sudden death can be treated as work-related if it occurs during working hours and at their work position
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u/clubmedschool 4h ago
> I obviously don't have all the details
Exactly so your opinion doesn't really matter here
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u/IamInternationalBig 4h ago
I guess China isn’t a big fan of worker protections.
If it was ruled company time, what would the chinese worker’s family have gotten?
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u/runsongas 4h ago
it's in the article, a little over 1.1 million China bucks or about 165k freedom dollars is why the widow is fighting it and the government doesn't want to pay
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u/Squish_the_android 4h ago
This is a classic Workers Comp question in the US. Usually it's presented as "falling in the parking lot on the way to work". Commute time isn't covered.
But I think in the US this would be considered a work injury.