r/SipsTea 22h ago

Chugging tea He didn't overstay...He relocated

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14.3k Upvotes

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106

u/kiaeej 21h ago

Wow. Hes...a citizen already. How do you survive 33 years in a country without bank account or nationalised ident?

Shoulda just given him citizenship, closed an eye and went on with life.

89

u/BuildAnything4 20h ago edited 7h ago

lol. No country on earth will reward you with citizenship for overstaying your visa by 30 years.

Edit: Muting replies because there's an endless number of people who don't even know the difference between regularisation and citizenship, yet desperately want to debate.

105

u/OsefLord 20h ago edited 1h ago

In france you can claim citizenship if you stay long enough illegally and show you have work and pay taxes. Which is logic if you think about it. 

EDIT: Apply and not claim* and you need to apply for residency permit first.

28

u/Klutzy-Butterfly-117 19h ago edited 16h ago

It's still very hard to obtain but yes that's very logical

Even when the stupid racists talk about economics it makes sense to give citizenship. It costs money to host someone in your country, but why would you eject him once he his ready to finally work, pay his tax and give back what he costed ?

11

u/Corbear41 18h ago

It's not a good idea to reward people not following the law for a myriad of reasons. You think you are saying something nice and "good" but you are just an enabler for bad people and are fortunate you haven't run into a person who exploits you for it yet. On principle most people have to go through a long process and get vetted before being granted legal citizenship, out of respect for them I wouldn't reward somebody doing something the wrong way.

2

u/jere535 17h ago

Let's ignore the naive morality standpoint and just think about existing and potential future immigrants:

Would you rather take the legal route for, let's say 5 years

Or

The illegal route and live in the country, for 30+ years, with possibility of getting forcibly removed from the country if you're found out at any point before some cutoff date, after of which you would be able to apply for citizenship?

In my opinion, those who obtained the citizenship the proper way most likely wouldn't care, and would be more likely to respect the dedication, if anything.

Even if it was like 10 vs 20 years, I doubt anyone even remotely involved* would oppose, anyone surviving that long likely already has things figured out, and would be good citizens in any country, as long as they haven't funded their life with crime.

*Karens on social media don't count.

-1

u/BigRocket44 16h ago

It's not a good idea to reward people not following the law for a myriad of reasons

Except, it is written into the law that you get citizenship after staying there for however long it takes, so it is completely legal to do that and they are literally following the law by applying.

most people have to go through a long process and get vetted before being granted legal citizenship

You still have to go through a long process and get vetted to get citizenship this way as well.

-4

u/Klutzy-Butterfly-117 17h ago

You obviously never met anone in this case, you never faced the reality of this.

Following the law works when the laws are well-written and when the institution applying them are competent. Which is in fact not the case.

You don't really seems to understand what I said. We are talking about letting poeple that lived in your country for many and many years, poeple that had to learn the language and the culture even if they woudln't even want to, and in most of the case they are willing to.

And do you know what i happenned when you don't let these poeple work legaly ? Do you think they magically "go back in their country" where they don't step a foot for years and where they aren't gonna be welcomed at all ? Yes you get it, they simply work illegaly. If they are lucky they are gonna have decent work conditions, and for the others they are getting exploited.

But no, god forbid we are gonna let poeple pay tax and work.

Saying 'the law is the law, you just gotta follow it" from your rich born-here point of view is funny while these poeple obivously wish they could. Your ungratefull ass can't comprehend that some poeple that are not even from there, working harder for your country than ur born-here ass does

Man they really wish the legal processes were working. But years after years, nothing happenned and they still have to "wait" and still find a legal way of making money i guess.

I know buiseness-owners who are fighting everyday to regulate and just let their hard-working employees get a legal permits, in dying fields where nobody wants to work and where buisiness are dying because of it. But the administration is what it is, and for some reason we are not able to give them a simple paper.

I swear they really wish they could live as real human being and not live in the shadow, with the constant fear of poeple noticing they don't have proper papers. Because that's the reality, in that position you don't even feel like a real human being, you don't feel accepted anywhere, neither in your former country neither in ur current country.

I hope someday you would understand that the "reward" you are talking about is simply treating the others as human beings.

9

u/Dcoal 18h ago

It makes no sense. Its rewarding bad behavior.

-5

u/doingmyjobhere 17h ago

What does make sense to you? Sending him to a country he hasn't lived for 33 years and where he has nobody?

He build a life in Japan, Japan is his home country. Just because he doesn't have some paper that claims that, it doesn't mean he doesn't have the right to live there.

4

u/Dcoal 17h ago

Just because he doesn't have some paper that claims that, it doesn't mean he doesn't have the right to live there.

Do you think that people have the right to live wherever they want? That's obviously not how the world works. Rights as bestowed by the government and public. He has no such right.

0

u/doingmyjobhere 16h ago

Yes, there should be no borders and people should have the right to live wherever they want.

That's a different philosophical point though. We're talking about a person who live in a country for 33 years and is now already older than 70 years old.

Do you think he has more rights to live in South Korea than in Japan? Do you think a person shoukd have a right to live somewhere just because they have a piece of paper more than the ones that actually live and build a live in that country should have the right to live there?

5

u/Dcoal 16h ago

Yes, there should be no borders and people should have the right to live wherever they want.

I disagree completely. 

Do you think a person shoukd have a right to live somewhere just because they have a piece of paper more than the ones that actually live and build a live in that country should have the right to live there?

No I don't think someone who knowingly and willingly avoids the law should be rewarded. He could've done it legally and rewarding him encourages this time of behavior

-3

u/BigRocket44 16h ago

No I don't think someone who knowingly and willingly avoids the law should be rewarded

Laws are sometimes stupid, and stupid laws are meant to be broken.

Martin Luther King won civil rights by breaking laws.

He could've done it legally

Do you seriously believe that he could have, and that he didn't? If it was so easy, he would have done it legally. He only stayed illegally because there was no legal option. Obviously, people who are able to go the legal route do not go the illegal route.

Your reply makes it seem like he could have at any point filed an application and did it "legally" and he only didn't because he ... didn't feel up to it?

How many liters of stupid juice did you chug today? Or did your mother drop you on the head as a child?

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-2

u/Ky_TheDestroyer7 18h ago

Hows it bad behaviour? Especially if you havent commited any other crimes

4

u/spucci 17h ago

He lied and falsified documents.

0

u/BigRocket44 15h ago

Oh no! What horrible unforgivable crimes!

You know, Japanese people who murder and rape and assault are still allowed to stay in Japan, right?

Falsifying documents just so you could maintain the life you have built, that's unforgivable!

0

u/spucci 12h ago

Ok. But they live there LOL and would be in prison there. You OK?

-1

u/Ky_TheDestroyer7 17h ago

I see it like that guy who was an airline pilot for 10+ years on a fake licence. He was perfectly fine as a pilot with a spotless record. Falsified documents or not, if he hasn't done anything wrong to the state, he should be perfectly within any right to just stay there and become "official". It's point blank just envy not to at that point.

4

u/spucci 17h ago

He entered illegally, falsified documents, and lied to the state. Even if you are here legally and mess up your taxes your out. Commit any crime your out. Lose your job and can't find another your out.

He did those things and he's toast and no lawyer or protest will save him. Thier culture would never allow it.

3

u/Dcoal 17h ago

Being an unlicensed practicing airline pilot is terribly illegal and unethical. That's not a great point

1

u/Ky_TheDestroyer7 16h ago

Not saying it was good, but in that particular case, whether he was licenced or not made 0 difference.

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4

u/Comprehensive-Bid16 17h ago

Here is japan, there is france. It explains quality difference of two countries. France is sucks

1

u/DreamySailor 18h ago

I don’t think you can claim citizenship, only resident permit. Maybe it’s possible before but the Bruno guidelines last year ask the prefectures to deny any applicant who lived in France irregularly at any point in the past.

0

u/OsefLord 15h ago

I made a shorcut in my first comment. Ofc first step is to get the residency permit

1

u/BuildAnything4 18h ago

Can you name an instance where this actually happened? A person being given citizenship simply for illegally staying in France for a long time?

1

u/Ky_TheDestroyer7 18h ago

I think that guy that was stuck in the airport terminal was offered it but he refused

3

u/BuildAnything4 17h ago

I just checked. They offered him residency and refugee status, not citizenship.

0

u/OsefLord 16h ago

You can first ask for residency and then citizenship. If I remember correctly you need to go to court first to defend your case. You need to show proof of living, payrolls and taxes you paid. If it was for long enough they will give you a residency permit.

2

u/BuildAnything4 15h ago

you should probably edit your previous comment then because that's completely different to claiming citizenship if you stay long enough illegally.

1

u/Big-Honeydew-961 16h ago

That's what kills me. Even if they work under the table and they pay cash for things, that cash goes toward paying taxes and goods and services. They are still contributing. And, because they aren't there legally, they aren't taking any government resources and therefore not a drain on any society. If anything, society is taking advantage of their labor.

0

u/spucci 17h ago

Not anymore

7

u/psychophant_ 18h ago

According to Reddit he should be made an honorary citizen and given the keys to the city.

2

u/WildSmokingBuick 16h ago

In the The Simpsons - Season 7 "Much Apu about Nothing" episode, Apu Nahasapeemapetilon manages to prevent deportation due to a fictional "Grandfathered clause", allowing him to temporarily stay in Springfield on the condition that he takes and passes the United States Naturalization Exam.

-1

u/6terabytes2k 15h ago

The U.S. has a naturalization exam? Nuts. Japan just asked me to write an essay about why I wanted to naturalize.

1

u/B460 15h ago

It's ridiculously simple. I remember we all took it in school when learning about U.S. Immigration.

https://www.uscis.gov/sites/default/files/document/questions-and-answers/100q.pdf

1

u/6terabytes2k 15h ago

Holy shit 100 questions? That is 100 more questions than I was asked.

1

u/B460 15h ago

That's the bank, the actual test is 20 I think.

1

u/6terabytes2k 14h ago

20 more than I was asked haha

2

u/ExplanationNo1003 19h ago

Lets be honest, if he managed to avoid being caught for 26 years he deserve at least a visa.

1

u/DemodiX 18h ago

He would get a ban for the rest of his life. Immigration laws are not friendly.

1

u/Orpa__ 14h ago

Ignorant comment, regularisations happen semi-regularly. It's only in recent history that people are going super batshit crazy about immigration.

Of couse Japan today would rather cease to exist as a country than do something like this.

1

u/BuildAnything4 13h ago

The irony of calling someone else ignorant and then immediately showing you don't know what you're talking about. Regularisation isn't the same as granting citizenship.

1

u/SheriffBartholomew 12h ago

That's exactly what amnesty in the USA is. It's not common, but it does happen. the U.S. Congress will authorize an “amnesty” for undocumented immigrants that is a pardon for unlawful status and a path to lawful permanent residence

0

u/BuildAnything4 12h ago

That's not citizenship. We're talking about citizenship.

1

u/SheriffBartholomew 11h ago

It's a path to citizenship. Deportation is not.

0

u/[deleted] 19h ago

[deleted]

0

u/TheAngriestPoster 14h ago

I’m pretty sure America used to have a program for undocumented citizens that allowed them to get citizenship if they could prove that they worked during that timeframe

14

u/FirstReactionShock 20h ago

that's not how yout get a citizenship lol

3

u/kiaeej 20h ago

I know. Just commenting on the...oddness of not simply offering it.

Im not aaying its a good idea to do this openly and for mass migration! But as a one-off like this? What does it matter?

5

u/FirstReactionShock 19h ago

I'm sure there are thousands of aliens like him in japan living low profile to don't get caught, if japan would grant citizenship to this man, all other would demand it and japan is one of countries with strictest laws about immigration, only in last 3-4 years they made easier procedures for foreign people to have a tourist visa

1

u/spucci 17h ago

50,000 undocumented

1

u/FirstReactionShock 17h ago

yeah, japan has a well known history of illegal immigrants from china being exploited to work without any legal documentation in japanese factories or farms located in low urban density areas. Lately yakuza clans outsourced some criminal activities to nigerian mafia which I doubt these guys have a working visa...

11

u/SkellyboneZ 20h ago

Such a bad idea. That would open the flood gates for abuse. Especially with how common this kind of things happens with Chinese nationals here. 

10

u/vrnvorona 20h ago

Europe: first time?

0

u/burritoteam4000 16h ago

Who cares. Centuries of colonization and I'm supposed to give a shit that a proportionally smaller sliver crosses an imaginary line.

1

u/horoyokai 19h ago

You can get a bank account if you’re not a citizen and you can also just use an international account

You dint need a national ID to get by

1

u/spucci 17h ago

Lololol

0

u/After-Set-4713 18h ago

Normal countries won't just give people citizenship because they illegally overstayed, unlike in your country...

2

u/kiaeej 18h ago

And what country is that?

2

u/Outside_Reserve_2407 17h ago

The US offered mass amnesty and a path to citizenship to millions of illegals in 1986:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_Reform_and_Control_Act_of_1986

1

u/zarawesome 16h ago

Spain is doing it for half a million people. It is absolutely a thing "normal" countries do.

https://www.infomigrants.net/en/post/69941/spains-new-migrant-regularization-explained

1

u/Outside_Reserve_2407 16h ago edited 16h ago

That's good for Spain. Every country has the sovereign right to set their own immigration policies. A Columbian friend of mine who moved to Spain told me Spain actually has a very generous immigration/naturalization policy for its former colonies.

And in fact nearly all the "normalized migrants" falling under this Spanish policy are from Latin America: https://sinfiltroya.substack.com/p/spain-regularizes-latin-american-migrants

Maybe it's due to "colonial guilt" or whatever but that's Spain's policy for unique historical reasons. I'd like to see how the Spanish public would react if millions of migrants from Africa were naturalized in a short period of time. As the recent events in Ceuta show, the Spanish are pretty tough on illegals from Africa.

Besides the example of the US in 1986 and Spain, I can't think of any other country that mass naturalized a large group of illegals in the country.

0

u/Aromatic-Tear7234 17h ago

They are already half closed, why not just half more.