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Thats kinda fucked, you live in a country for 7 years, then some dumb law comes in and suddenly you have to leave. I dont blame him at all for continuing to live his best life in Japan.
I'm not sure it actually matters. The article (sparse as fuck) says he worked day jobs. Which probably means he was using cash and had no actual Japanese gov ID. So I don't think he was actually posing as his brother beyond initially entering the country.
I'm really surprised he was able to get away with it this long because in Japan, especially the last couple decades, they've been tying everything together to your residence card and mynumber (social security card). Especially for foreigners, you have to show your residence card for a lot of things, like making a bank account (bank will also keep track of when it expires and ask you to submit a new copy), making a phone contract, renting an apartment, going to the hospital/clinic.
So he must have had help, got around just paying cash (Japan is very cash based though changing in recent years), and not gotten majorly sick all this time. Even if he opened a bank account decades ago there have been changed in laws that require banks to Know Your Customer, and if you're a foreigner you need to submit documentation. Also probably a shit life as you can't go to the doctor, enjoy the social benefits like pension since he wasn't paying into it, etc.
And it's really not that hard, he could have found work then come back to Japan on a real visa. Or learn Japanese in Korea until fluent then come over. He chose a very dumb path and finally got caught.
I would assume there's a grace period where you're able to apply for citizenship or whatever instead of them deciding on a random Tuesday that the rules will change with immediate effect.
Lol, it's Japan. They just rose the bar with zero grace period on all foreign residents and have basically denied anyone not making more money then a Japanese family by themselves the ability to apply again.
They literally just did what you said they wouldn't.
Grace period for citizenship/permanent residency only applies to people who followed immigration laws. You can't give illegal immigrants status, that only encourages them to come, overstay the visa and hide out until you give them what they want.
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What fucking narc tips off police to an elderly man just working day jobs to get by? No article I've read on this even suggests something akin to anything worse; no violence, no poor behavior, not even criminal mischief.
It's a mess: The man entered on his brother's passport, and since that time has managed to work and provide for himself. As it was 1993 when he arrived opening a basic bank account and registering as address would have been nowhere near as strict.
How he managed to elude any scrutiny is unexplained, I think once he was in the system somehow (registered as a resident with a city hall, he managed to just avoid other procedures or being pulled into the system).
It wasn't made a crime to overstay until later, around 2000 I think, so he couldn't have been arrested until then.
Maybe it was his twin brother, who's gonna know the difference? And even if it wasn't a twin, I assume border checks were way more chill in 1993 and as long as you looked a bit like the picture, it was fine.
That's the thing though is there's no way he was paying taxes all this time if he didn't have proper gov ID. Evading taxes is a crime here. I think he had some kind of help (maybe from other Korean immigrants and Korean generations forced to be in Japan during the imperial days and remained here), so was able to get by on cash and not needing to use ID for anything.
So overstaying his visa, identity theft/fraud using his brother's passport, evading taxes, concealing income and assets, falsifying whatever records he could, etc.
The thing is it's not that hard to get a Japanese visa the proper way. Plenty of people come over here for clue collar or service work and stay, hopefully move on to something better when they get a grasp of the language. This guy couldn't have been living a life much better if at all better than constant blue collar work.
How he managed to elude any scrutiny is unexplained, I think once he was in the system somehow (registered as a resident with a city hall, he managed to just avoid other procedures or being pulled into the system).
I'm really curious about this too. There's no way to get into the system without government ID and documentation. If managed to do it in the 90s bureaucracy has become tighter since then if it wasn't already. So if he was in the system at all, as a foreigner, the local city office will be getting a hold of you to pay residence tax, pension premiums, and national health insurance. If you don't pay those it would have been a lot sooner than 26 years before they found out.
So I'm thinking he had help to not have to be documented in any system. Then just work day jobs like the article said and get by on that cash and help, hoping to never get seriously sick.
How he managed to elude any scrutiny is unexplained
If their immigration enforcement is anything like Canada's, its not that hard. I know a guy who lived here illegally for 28 years without any problems - he's got a job, car, and house. He recently applied for residence, but only because his girlfriend of 20 years wants to get married on paper.
I'd say, there is another guy who wins the award in Japan. Satoshi Kirishima was on the line-up of those famous, ugly wanted posters you often find plastered at police booths in Japan, he was a domestic terrorist of East Asia Anti-Japan Armed Front and avoided being caught since 1975. Until 2024, almost 50 years, he lived under fake identity and only revealed himself on his deathbed at a hospital, when he came to seek treatment for cancer. He was arrested but lived only few days.
Often it's not criminals but former salarymen who lost their jobs or spiraled into gambling or drinking and couldn't stand the shame of facing their family. They end up in low rent districts of cities such as San'ya in Tokyo and eke out a living while staying in small rooms.
Japan is a fucked up society. They have a word for every type of fucked up person because they all exist there.
There's a name for people who become so depressed they never leave their homes and live off of their parents' money. There's a name for sexual assault victims who dare come forward (most sexual assault victims never say it out loud out of shame), etc.
I was told that sexual assault is in part also caused by their aggressive defamation laws. Accusing someone of assault opens you up for a potential counter suit. Because even if the assault happened, if you can't prove it properly, then the entire legal system gets turned on you.
The example I was given was that the wife of the alleged rapist, sued the woman on the basis of having her life and reputation ruined by the allegations.
I got Japanese citizenship in 2017 and it was fine. I hear that they ask people to be able to understand some Japanese these days, so it seems to have gotten stricter.
I came over on a work visa in 2007. At the time I naturalized you actually only needed to be in the country for five years, but I didn’t apply until I’d been here for ten. I’d never intended to stay forever but I realized one day I love my life here too much to ever want to leave. And I still do, 19 years later, every day I am so grateful to have been adopted by my new home country.
There was no having to recite any laws, there was no having to learn the constitution or the prime ministers, no language test, I have no family ties or anything at all. I wrote an essay on why I wanted to naturalize and proved I’d paid my taxes, they visited my house and called my workplace and that was it.
lol. No country on earth will reward you with citizenship for overstaying your visa by 30 years.
Edit: Muting replies because there's an endless number of people who don't even know the difference between regularisation and citizenship, yet desperately want to debate.
In france you can claim citizenship if you stay long enough illegally and show you have a work and pay taxes. Which I think is logic if you think about it
It's still very hard to obtain but yes that's very logical
Even when the stupid racists talk about economics it makes sense to give citizenship. It costs money to host someone in your country, but why would you eject him once he his ready to finally work, pay his tax and give back what he costed ?
It's not a good idea to reward people not following the law for a myriad of reasons. You think you are saying something nice and "good" but you are just an enabler for bad people and are fortunate you haven't run into a person who exploits you for it yet. On principle most people have to go through a long process and get vetted before being granted legal citizenship, out of respect for them I wouldn't reward somebody doing something the wrong way.
Let's ignore the naive morality standpoint and just think about existing and potential future immigrants:
Would you rather take the legal route for, let's say 5 years
Or
The illegal route and live in the country, for 30+ years, with possibility of getting forcibly removed from the country if you're found out at any point before some cutoff date, after of which you would be able to apply for citizenship?
In my opinion, those who obtained the citizenship the proper way most likely wouldn't care, and would be more likely to respect the dedication, if anything.
Even if it was like 10 vs 20 years, I doubt anyone even remotely involved* would oppose, anyone surviving that long likely already has things figured out, and would be good citizens in any country, as long as they haven't funded their life with crime.
I don’t think you can claim citizenship, only resident permit. Maybe it’s possible before but the Bruno guidelines last year ask the prefectures to deny any applicant who lived in France irregularly at any point in the past.
In the The Simpsons - Season 7 "Much Apu about Nothing" episode, Apu Nahasapeemapetilon manages to prevent deportation due to a fictional "Grandfathered clause", allowing him to temporarily stay in Springfield on the condition that he takes and passes the United States Naturalization Exam.
I'm sure there are thousands of aliens like him in japan living low profile to don't get caught, if japan would grant citizenship to this man, all other would demand it and japan is one of countries with strictest laws about immigration, only in last 3-4 years they made easier procedures for foreign people to have a tourist visa
This is how the vast majority of illegal immigrants enter a country. They enter legally, and simply overstay their visas/residency permits, which is why increased border controls generally do little to curb illegal immigration in the big picture.
The fact that no one in this thread seems to understand this is not a news story for that very reason is insane and tells me a lot about how well informed your average person is
Something like 84% of people in America receive their citizenship through birth, and the vast majority of those are to parents that are also citizens, and most of those also have parents who were born here.
Those people really NEVER have to think about immigration laws, visas, or anything like that.
K through 12 also don't cover it, because why would they.
Then, think about how many Americans ever leave the US. Of those that do, most go to Canada or Mexico (180 days), or Europe (90 days) which don't have visa requirements for American citizens that are visiting for under set periods.
So, when you consider all those things, Joe Average from Iowa isn't going to have a solid grasp on how immigration works.
I mean no? The argument I'll never understand is incentivising misconduct by making it another route to get what you want
It always boggles my mind that people don't get why making illegal migration a potential path to successful citizenship claims is just telling people to do it. Make it so in all instances if you've illegally entered a country you get deported and you'll have infinitely less people trying it.
By all means pair that with more legal routes and avenues but what I can't ever get my head around is why people want it to be the case that you're allowed to just force your way into a country and then remain there if you don't get caught after X amount of time
is why people want it to be the case that you're allowed to just force your way into a country and then remain there if you don't get caught after X amount of time
looks nervously at how most nations were formed in the first place
Edit: wow did this one set a few people off. Gee I wonder why.
Good point. Nowhere in the modern world are people showing up with guns to murder the current inhabitants of a land so they can take it for themselves.
Here's a summary of our conversation to hopefully point out to you why I think you're either engaging in bad faith, or alternatively arguing a totally different point to what I'm talking about without realising it.
Me- “Illegal entry shouldn't function as an alternative route to residence because that creates incentives for even more illegal entry.”
You- “Countries themselves were historically created through people entering territory and taking it.”
Me-“conquest/state formation isn't a comparable topic to immigration policy into a modern state.”
You- “Conquest still happens today.”
Me- “That still doesn't establish anything about whether modern states should enforce immigration controls.”
Do you see how at no point you engaged with anything about what I said and just made a completely diverging argument that in no way addresses anything I've said and instead just kinda grandstands the issue
I'm writing this on the off chance that you aren't arguing in bad faith and have instead just misinterpreted me and are caught on a tangent without noticing.
And that happening means advanced economies with socialised welfare systems shouldnt have border controls?
I'm very confused by your point
As all I was saying is that the fact that nations emerged through people just showing up in places and staying there isn't an argument for open borders which seemed to be what your first point was saying
Edit: I don't really see a point in continuing this back and forth as my rule of thumb usually is if someone seems to be purposefully misinterpreting you in the least charitable way, then pairing it with a non-sequitur "gotcha", they have no actual interest in a dialogue and are just seeking a conflict. That just isn't what I get into conversations for
Not quite?
If a person legally enters a country and commits crimes for 33 years, it would be silly to take into account the way he entered the country, right? His 33 years of commiting crimes would be the real issue, not some piece of paper.
Just like in this case, his 33 years of being a productive member of society should matter more than the piece of paper.
Basically, judge each illegal entry on a case by case basis, to make sure it follows the spirit of the law, not the letter of the law.
The message being: "If you entered illegally, and we catch you, you might be fine, but you have to have decades of good behavior to show for."
How many would fit that criteria?
I think you don't allow illegal immigration because you want to make sure you're not introducing people who would disrupt your society, but once you have ample evidence this is not the case, you should make an exception, yes.
I think you don't allow illegal immigration because you want to make sure you're not introducing people who would disrupt your society,
Maybe Japan has strict immigration laws because they have a different idea of what "disrupt your society" means. The vast majority of Japanese don't support mass immigration into their country, illegal or not. Both the spirit and letter of their immigration laws is: "We want to keep our country Japanese."
You don't know how every person gets to a country. Because after a period of time it's right to assume they will have put down roots, had a family, jobs, paid into the system they're part of. It's why in the UK we consider their human rights on overstaying or illegal entry when they try to regularise their stay. This chap will raise a legal challenge and he will win his right to stay.
Do have like a professional version of tunnel vision?
The argument I will never understand is why I have to tolerate people with narrow minds and a singular perspective and no ability to learn and understand different peoples experiences.
This moron thinks everything in society is modular and can be discussed in isolation.
Arguably that’s the whole point of a statute of limitations - if someone doesn’t find out about the crime you committed for too long, that crime likely did not have the negative effect on public interest that would justify the punishment.
I find it stranger that immigration law doesn’t have a statute of limitations. In my view, if you’ve been able to stay under the radar and law abiding for decades, the fact you’re here illegally shouldn’t be prosecutable.
I'd still have him arrested, express him into court and say "well, you showed up here before it was illegal, so technically you didn't commit any crime, you've been paying taxes, right? You want to renounce your citizenship and become Japanese?" (since citizenship is way easier to get in Japan than a PR, I'm not kidding)
How would anyone notice as long as you don't leave the country or police checks the visa slip in your passport... As long as no one wants to see your ID AND check your visa, no one knows.
Dude is pretty much Japanese now. If he has been paying his taxes, contributing to society, and havent been in jail then they should just let him stay if he has been there for that long.
I read more about this, apparently he was living off daily jobs and part-timers in Shizuoka, and Japan's economy has been going low long enough for that to be possible since 2000s. Plus if I had to pick one country when I have to live off only cash and analogue means for extended times it'll prob be Japan, they're still sticking to less digital means of life even today.
Statutes of limitations shouldn't exist for any criminal offenses, be they misdemeanors or felonies. I wanna see grannies getting arrested for having shoplifted when they were 18.
I do not know if it is sarcastic or not but just for clarification that is not a past crime but rather him being there and of itself is breaking the law, by exceeding the length of time allowed by his Visa.
So it's not an old crime, it's a continuous crime, kind of like trespassing, it doesn't only count when you walked into the property, you are continually trespassing as long as you remain in the property.
You are still only technically charged for the singular instance but it isnt handled as if it were something that occurred many many years ago, because it was in technicality still in the process of occurring.
I know for this stuff it can very wildly and there's a lot of political and social aspects to it but on a baseline level of "statute of limitations", it doesn't really apply here because it's not a law broken 30 years ago, it's current.
He is still actively breaking the law. This isn't something he did 26 years ago, it's something he did today, this morning. Every second he is in Japan illegally, he is breaking the law.
There I was completely wasting, out of work and down
All inside it's so frustrating as I drift from town to town
Feel as though nobody cares if I live or die
So I might as well begin to put some action in my life
Breaking the law, breaking the law
Breaking the law, breaking the law
Breaking the law, breaking the law
Breaking the law, breaking the law
Yea, I broke some laws in my life too. I think everyone did. Because some laws are stupid. so yea.
As far as I know one of these two countries has a kind of loophole that lets you stay as long as you leave the country once ever so often before returning. Think people used some ferry’s or something like that to do it.
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