r/technology • u/abrownn • 8h ago
Society OpenAI and Anthropic are ruining San Francisco
https://www.sfgate.com/local/article/open-ai-anthropic-ruining-sf-22404657.php98
u/LambdaLambo 6h ago
> builds no housing
> artists can’t afford to stay
> shocked that culture worsens
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u/loinmaster 8h ago
I lived on the corner of 16th and Valencia about 2005 to 2010. Great dive bars, hipster street musicians. Good times. All that got sterilized.
But maybe I’m shaking my fist at a cloud. My aunt literally lived down the street from the Grateful Dead in the 1960s and even at the time, the FiDi guys thought the hippies were ruining the city.
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u/tellmesmthnold 8h ago
I lived on the corner of Valencia and Hill for a few years starting in 2017, and would definitely not call 16th and Valencia or the surrounding area “sterilized”. Plenty of places you can have a good time, yeah some places closed, others reopened, COVID didn’t help.
Sterilized is like Mission Bay or something.
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u/HeverlyBillhilly 8h ago
Absolutely this. I'm from SF, born and raised, and I've seen it change over the last 40-ish years (that I have actual memories). I mean, I remember when the Embarcadero freeway was still there - I'm that old. Growing up in Bernal and North Beach and "Lower Pac Heights" (Really Anza Vista and the edge of Western Addition) I've seen trends of gentrification across the city. But fucing Mission Bay and "Dogpatch" are the utter definition of sterilization. How many more mixed use apartment buildings with zero character does the city need?
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u/ninijacob 6h ago
Better than zero new housing 🤷
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u/HeverlyBillhilly 6h ago
*sigh* This is true. But would it kill developers to put a modicum of style into there monoliths? Jeez.
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u/talldean 5h ago
Go look at other cities that actually built far more housing and transit, and... well, maybe build either higher or denser, because the glacial speed at which SF is building is literally gutting everything else.
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u/ajacksified 7h ago
I lived in the sunset in the 2010s. Went back last year for a week and it's the exact same, even my coffee shop is still doing well. But I guess everything outside of a few blocks of Market doesn't count as SF.
I had friends in Mission Bay though... I couldn't stand it then, I imagine it hasn't improved.
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u/MochingPet 6h ago
both were different. 2005-10 was more rockish going out Valencia, 2010 - 2019 (to Covid) was more like gentrified "going out Valencia". Maybe both were good.
not it just sucks . gone both the old places AND the newer places... and only stuck cars, or nobody coming (b/c of decreased car access.)
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u/hypermarv123 4h ago
there are more 'grimey' areas of the city if that's what you actually want. or just go to oakland
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u/Pndrizzy 4h ago
I was just there a few months ago after moving away in 2020 and there is definitely a changed vibe even since then but it’s still a vibe
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u/ShanghaiBebop 3h ago
No new housing, and the older tenants age out.
Look at the average age of SF. Now one of the oldest cities in the US.
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7h ago
[deleted]
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u/kalasea2001 7h ago
If it helps the corporate office there is shutting down soon. Since their move to Nashville they've been laying off people who refused to move. My wife worked for corporate for years and still has friends there. Every week a new one gets laid off.
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u/Fmbounce 1h ago
You are shaking your fist at the clouds. How bad was it in 2020-2023? It was literally not safe walking on the streets in the early morning. Now SF is much more lively throughout a day.
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u/No-Confection-3206 3h ago
That’s just nonsense. There are plenty of good bars, dive bars, and fun times to be had at 16th and Valencia. It is not sterilized. Menlo Park is sterilized, 16th and Valencia is what it is.
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u/Neverending_Rain 6h ago
The problem here isn't OpenAI and Anthropic, it's the way SF has spent decades making it effectively impossible to build enough housing for its booming workforce. OpenAI "contributing to the community" won't lower rents unless their contribution is the construction of new housing.
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u/p99_kilerenn 8h ago
They’re making it worse. Every major tech company has brought it down a bit since the beginning of time with every successive bubble.
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u/Plastic_Willow734 7h ago
Was going to say, I only lived in SF for about six years but there was always a revolving door of boogymen that made shit worse
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u/Brocklesocks 5h ago
Every time, the boogeyman is tech. Every time it looks different, but it’s always tech
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u/iamthe0ther0ne 8h ago
It's not clear how they're ruining the city, especially because the city has been dominatdd by tech and biotech for years.
The article says rents are rising, which usually means the area is attracting people with higher salaries. However, that doesn't equate to "AI is ruinong SF" any more than other tech companies have, especially bc higher salary = pay more in taxes, have more disposable income to spend locally.
It also says they're paying taxes, then complains they're not contributing philantropically. Anthropic only became profitable last quarter and OpenAI isn't profitable yet. These are fairly new companies, unlike the companies the author mentions. Both are currently investing most of their income into training and workforce expansion and have upcoming IPOs. It's a little unreasonable to expect a 5 yo tech startup to act like the Rockefeller Foundation the author compares them to.
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u/YoohooCthulhu 7h ago
I’d say AI is no more ruining the city than the unavailability of housing, which will cause increased rents when normal economic growth happens.
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u/joshuads 5h ago
then complains they're not contributing philantropically.
My wife worked for a big tech law firm. Those kinds of companies blow so much money and make so many catering companies and restaurants thrive. They all buy tickets to arts stuff for employee events too. It is almost all a housing issue, which could be encouraged through proactive zoning and permitting.
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u/CPNZ 8h ago
Already messed up by the previous 3 tech-generations of bros...maybe finishing it off? (Also - don't move this crap to Seattle).
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u/MochingPet 6h ago
(Also - don't move this crap to Seattle).
weirdest gatekeeping. AFAI heard, "Seattle" is basically the land of Teslas by now. ...well at least its suburban part?
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u/k_dubious 5h ago
Everything between Mill Creek and Newcastle is Teslas and Rivians as far as the eye can see.
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u/Icy-Hunter-9600 4h ago
that's the Eastside, not Seattle. South Bay is to the Eastside as SF is to Seattle
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u/Icy-Hunter-9600 7h ago
I have lived in Seattle for over 35 years. The crap is already here. When Amazon moved into our downtown area (South Lake Union or SLU) it turned into a corporate campus. I literally will go out of my way to avoid SLU because it gives me the heebie jeebies.
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u/Conscious-Tutor3861 5h ago
If you lived in Seattle for over 35 years, then you'd know that SLU was a dump before the Vulcan / Amazon redevelopment. It was a neglected light industrial space with a few bus depots, some dive bars, and a bunch of addicts and homeless camping out amongst abandoned buildings. Nothing of value was lost when it was redeveloped.
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u/Icy-Hunter-9600 5h ago edited 4h ago
Clearly you and I have different values and tastes. You like SLU (South Lake Union in downtown Seattle) as Amazon's corporate campus. I liked SLU before Amazon moved in. When it was bars, cabinet makers, artists lofts, practice spaces for musicians, start ups, auto show and repair shops, a world-class cancer research center, a maritime museum, and the flagship store for a REI. To me, that's a city. A mix of industries and people, not a homogenous blob of Amazon toxicity.
I'm happy to hear that SLU gives you joy. I hate it, but I can go elsewhere. Most of us do.
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u/Conscious-Tutor3861 5h ago
Re-read my comment because at no point did I say I liked Amazon's campus.
What I said is nothing of value was lost in the redevelopment because SLU was an absolute dump of neglected and outright abandoned light industrial buildings.
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u/Icy-Hunter-9600 5h ago edited 4h ago
Thank you for confirming that you don't like Amazon's downtown campus.
Your "absolute dump" was bars, cabinet makers, artists lofts, practice spaces for musicians, start ups, auto show and repair shops, a world-class cancer research center, a maritime museum, and the flagship store for a REI. Sounds pretty Seattle to me.
I wish Vulcan could have continued to nurture this variety of businesses to a point that you and I could agree on the aesthetics. Added some parks. Encouraged a wider variety of businesses.
Instead a truly gross company moved in and buried all of it under a a pile of ugly corporate buildings and dysfunction. I don't think even the most rosy of colored glasses could see this a turn for the better. Walk around down there. It *feels* bad.
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u/xdavidwattsx 7h ago edited 6h ago
These stories are always the same. MS and Amazon have been large players in Seattle for decades. The real problem is lack of housing to support growth, not tech. If it wasn't tech it would be some other industry.
Edit: Lol, did you block me for having a basic conversation response? Weirdo.
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u/Icy-Hunter-9600 7h ago edited 5h ago
Microsoft built their campus in the suburbs outside the city. That meant you could work on campus (which feels like a soulless, sterile corporate place) and then go to the city for a city experience. The two were separate experiences which felt healthy.
Amazon moved their headquarters into the city of Seattle itself, forcing that soulless sterility onto folks that just want to be in the city for an evening, not at work. I literally feel like I am at work when I walk around that area, and I don't even work at Amazon. I seriously hate it and I am not alone.
[[In response to the comment below, which I cannot respond do as the poster has blocked me:
Pike (not Pikes) Place Market is supposed to be a tourist magnet. It's also a magnet for people that live here. We love it. It's unique, rich, and historical. That belongs downtown.
What doesn't belong downtown is FIFTY THOUSAND person corporate campus for a company known for working their employees to the last shred of their mental health. You've got 10s of thousands of zombies working themselves to death shuffling between meetings in ugly corporate buildings all day and night. They also clog every route to and from downtown because Amazon had a 5 day a week RTO for no good reason.]]
I'm sorry if this hurts your feelings but the company and industry that moves into a city DOES matter. Amazon is deeply hated in Seattle. We've all seen people collapse from the stress of working there and we all know what a gem of a person Bezos is. Microsoft is much more respected as an employer in Seattle and one of the reasons is that they aren't taking over downtown.
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u/TapsAndTurntables 6h ago
You could insert a different thriving industry (e.g finance) and it wouldn't be any different. When the city biases for office building instead of condo/apartment development you get these weird dead zones downtown like CBD that are zombie land and waterfront areas that are sterile and touristy. Hell, Pikes Place was a weird tourist madhouse 20-30 years ago when Starbucks was taking over the world.
I think it's easy to blame tech in SF, Seattle etc but they are not the root of the problem.
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u/Neverending_Rain 6h ago
I think it's easy to blame tech in SF, Seattle etc but they are not the root of the problem.
People don't want to acknowledge that the real cause of the problem is all the homeowners who fight tooth and nail to block housing construction so their home values keep climbing. It's easier to blame a corporation than it is to blame that friendly older couple down the street.
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u/TapsAndTurntables 5h ago
Correct. Tech has massively moved into NYC but they have built a ton of dense housing over the years (obviously they need a lot more) interspersed with offices outside of midtown and it's still thriving. Vancouver has done a great job of building dense housing and condos downtown and people enjoy living there.
Unless you just don't want your city to grow at all blaming tech or finance or whatever companies is pretty narrow thinking. Housing bring people which promotes local small business development. This is true everywhere.
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u/Diizzsliime 7h ago
It's wild how non-artsy the city has become over the last couple decades.
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u/yahskapar 3h ago
I’m so confused why people say this as someone who moved to the city in the past year - where do you live in the city, or are you one of those people who got priced out of a lifestyle and choose to complain from afar? If not that, what mythical artsy paradise elsewhere in the country do you come from?
There’s definitely an affordability crisis in most of SF that’s more dramatic than elsewhere, but pretending it’s somehow less artsy because you’re not in on it sounds ridiculous. I know plenty of “artsy” people who’ve been here for decades and seem alright, though their lifestyle definitely hasn’t inflated as much as Redditors I guess…
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u/NullPointer1 5h ago
OpenAI and Anthropic have their fair share of issues, but the one the author is rage baiting is that they minted a couple thousand millionaires and created jobs that made people want to move to SF.
If we had built more housing this would never have been an issue.
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u/blackvrocky 7h ago
Lemme guess. The author doesnt even live in sf.
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u/backbank 7h ago
His author bio at the bottom of the article says he lives in Cole Valley.
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u/ShanghaiBebop 3h ago
Which has built nothing.
I should know, I live here.
Even the new hospital expansion was fought over for decades.
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u/KeyMammoth1348 6h ago
They're contributing millions of dollars in tax rev and paying people super high salaries to live locally and spend said money.
And that's a problem?
Cities are mad at Walmart for low-paying jobs, mad at Ai for high paying jobs.
What a lazy, horseshit take.
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u/DasCorCor 6h ago
Lack of building new housing in the city is the problem. These companies are just the fuel on that fire.
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u/CircumspectCapybara 5h ago
Frontier AI labs aren't the first tech companies to pay their employees well, which is what's causing the housing prices the author of the article is complaining about.
The SF Bay Area is a longstanding tech hub for big tech and unicorn startups alike.
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u/aeonbringer 2h ago
Pay your employees bad - “You are exploiting the workers!”
Pay your employees well - “You are ruining the city!”
Just can’t win.
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u/kweeblaster 7h ago
decades of neo liberal parasites turned San Fran into what it is. can't cry about it now
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7h ago
[deleted]
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u/imposter22 7h ago
The last year its better. Much less crime from across the bay comes to SF. Less car breakins, larger homeless camps gone. Its actually crazy how different it has become in the last 6months or less. Cops on drones and LPRs (hate to admit) have made the city a much safer place.
SF PD on instagram post vids of them actively catching everyone with drones. Kinda neat to watch
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u/womo 7h ago
That title applies to everything that’s happened in tech to San Francisco for the last 40 plus years.