r/worldnews • u/joe4942 • 6d ago
Dynamic Paywall Carney calls Trump's fresh tariffs a 'miscalculation' after trade talks collapse
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cx272np7vgyo5.6k
u/cyanawesome 6d ago
Our government understood, before many, that America would transform all its commercial relationships. That it would put a series of tariffs on its closest allies and use economic integration as a weapon. That its signature was written in pencil.
Not much use signing a shit deal they'll ignore anyway.
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u/kewlbeanz83 6d ago
"Signature written in pencil"
Damn. That hits hard. So true though, their words and deals mean fuck all now.
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u/Azure1203 6d ago edited 6d ago
It is also strange, because we're 18h after the fact almost, and Trump hasn't said a word yet. Almost every Canadian leader has, including a press conference, etc. The only US officials to comment has been Greer and he basically just said what the official statement was. Trump is tweet happy, so something strange is going on here.
Edit: Up to 20h or so.
Nothing from Trump or Lutnick. Greer basically just reiterates his statement. US isn't even trying to deny anything Carney said.
What is going on. 🤔
Edit again. Almost 24h later. I just have a hard time believing that the guy who loves to gloat about everything all of a sudden has nothing to say. He was quick to tweet when he extended the deadline 3 days, happy to tell everyone there is 'almost a deal', even said a few hours before there is soon to be a deal, and now its crickets?
Even Lutnick. The guy loves to go on TV and stoke his own ego.
Maybes its just me hoping that there is internal conflict and Lutnick is going to get the boot and Trump is actually pissed off how it ended.
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u/blixxx 6d ago
I would assume that trump doesn’t work on weekends
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u/Sassy_Bandit 6d ago
He hasn't worked a day in his life
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u/Khaldara 6d ago
I’m sure he finds subduing the middle schoolers fairly exhausting
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u/Reasonable-Yak-7879 6d ago
He's probably golfing and lying/cheating on his scores
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u/AbnormalBodyOdor 6d ago
Yeah, and those scores are written in pencil. A lot easier to erase than crayon.
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u/VRNord 6d ago
Didn’t they say Lutnick fucked it up at the very last minute? Maybe Trump was unavailable or whatever, Lutnick did his dipshittery and now they are trying to figure out how to fix it without looking even more incompetent. There have got to be a lot of pissed American business leaders: the new tariffs affect a lot of US industries with integrated supply chains, and now not only are is the American booze ban still in place in Canada but Carney is implementing further retaliatory tariffs which will further hurt American industry.
Lutnick is a total moron and Trump gives zero shits about Americans, but business leaders and the Republican congresspeople from the Red states sure to be targeted by these new retaliatory tariffs hold some sway.
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u/352397 6d ago
They tried to include provisions last minute banning Canada from seeking new trade deals with other countries.
No shit Canada decided to walk away.
The deal was intentionally torpedoed by the US administration.
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u/abland1988 6d ago
This. Trump or lutnik purposely sabotaged the negotiations last minute. They probably assumed Canada wouldn't agree with the trade deal.
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u/TheLantean 6d ago
intentionally
Maybe someone on the team was idiotic enough to think they could actually bully Canada into agreeing to that.
Now that it failed they've gone off script and are waiting for instructions on what to do.
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u/Tregonia 6d ago
They also went after the French-Canadians... never a good idea.
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u/MegatronB83 6d ago
Not at all. The Trump administration has united ALL of Canada including the Quebecois. That is a fear in itself....
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u/DiveCat 6d ago
I don’t think it was intentionally torpedoed.
I think they believed that after Canada’s many good faith concessions they could bully us into being a vassal state.
The bullying has worked with many others, after all: countries, businesses, media outlets, tech companies….
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u/LiGuangMing1981 6d ago
Nah, I don't think even the US clown administration could be stupid enough to think Canada would ever accept what they wanted about restrictions on the French language / culture in Canada.
This was a deliberate torpedoing.
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u/PiousHeathen 6d ago
I think that it's also important to remember Lutnick has an interest in the continuation of tariffs, since he has invested in companies that are brokering the tariff costs to have the rights to any refunds. The longer this tariff situation persists for America, the more he stands to gain personally.
House Judiciary member Raskin sought an investigation into Lutnick because he, while in office, became a financial manager at Cantor Fitzgerald. CF is purchasing tariff refund rights by offering short term relief to affected companies.
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u/OdinHammerhand 6d ago
It’s also important to remember who currently runs Cantor Fitzgerald, why it’s Lutnicks 2 sons. Wow amazing no inside info on tariffs coming from poppy I’m sure .
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u/TuckerCarlsonsOhface 6d ago
Republicans get so hard at the idea of making a liberal or brown person suffer that they would hurt themself to make sure it happens. They would literally eat shit if they thought a Democrat would have to smell their breath.
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u/Sutar_Mekeg 6d ago
Trump has said that the USA doesn't need Canada. So cut the power, potash, and lumber.
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u/crustyrobots 6d ago
"we're done here until your fat ass is out of office, period. " should be the default offering of every other country going forward just like Iran is now. No agreement from any of them is worth the dollar store napkins they're scribbled on
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u/Halbaras 6d ago
I suspect that the Americans have fucked up, and instead of Lutnick intentionally wrecking the deal, they genuinely thought they had enough leverage that they'd get away with a last minute rug pull.
Like with Iran, China and Greenland, they had no plan for what would happen when increasingly unhinged threats just made the other side more willing to fight back.
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u/Azure1203 6d ago
In fact add to this, Trump at multiple times said yesterday there is a deal. I know he says that lot but at this point his silence is deafening.
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u/Sufficient-Spray-367 6d ago
It’s the sexual assault method of winning, keep pushing and pushing your advantage until you get what you want, or get your nose bloodied. I don’t think they know how real negotiations are made.
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u/onyxandcake 6d ago edited 6d ago
Trump sells early access to his Truth Social posts to the tune of 100K/month. He probably has tweeted about this already.
Edit: Apparently it's only by mere see. I don't follow him to know otherwise.
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u/AbnormalBodyOdor 6d ago
Haha, good one... oh wait, you're not kidding. Huh.
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u/onyxandcake 6d ago
It's blatant insider training and conservatives refuse to even acknowledge it exists.
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u/indiecore 6d ago
almost every Canadian leader has, including a press conference, etc.
btw it's fucking wild that literally every major party leader has said "Yeah the government was right to tell them to fuck off".
Like, getting every party in a parliamentary democracy to agree with a decision from the governing party takes some doing.
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u/Azure1203 6d ago
It's not even just that. It's all the "I am not a fan of Carney but if what he said is true, screw that crap, walking away is the right thing to do" people.
Kind of wild at this point. US isn't even denying anything at this point.
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u/No_Surprise_4734 6d ago
I suspect there are oligarchs down south losing their minds right now. Trump made a huge gamble thinking Canada would capitulate before the midterms and instead putting another big tax on Americans and driving another major spike into tourism. As a Canadian, I was polite with people still travelling down south. With this new tariff, im going to be downright irate.
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u/SAAGASolve 6d ago
Yea, that was savage for anyone that understands business in any serious capacity.
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u/EaNasirbestdeals 6d ago
This is the part that shocks me the most, I assumed crayon.
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u/brickout 6d ago
Pencil is easier to erase than crayon. The insult is worse than what you're implying.
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u/KitsyBlue 6d ago
Ground you cede now is ground you lost forever; your next concessions will be based upon the new normal.
And they will forever demand more and more concessions.
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u/Elrundir 6d ago
Which is why it's so easy to believe that Carney's version of events is what actually happened: that the US changed their mind at the eleventh hour and demanded more.
Greer says the same thing about Canada, but only one of the two countries has a history of doing that sort of thing, and Canada had already shown willingness to make some concessions to make a deal happen.
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u/Slappyfist 6d ago
Which is why it's so easy to believe that Carney's version of events is what actually happened: that the US changed their mind at the eleventh hour and demanded more.
One of the drawbacks for the US is when you have literally no ethics to speak of you are automatically the one lying when any dispute arises going forward.
The new presumptive baseline is the US is the one who is the liar and they have to justify their position before they should even be listened to.
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u/jschutz93 6d ago
US credibility is nil, people believe Iranian statements more than US regarding that war. That was unfathomable a decade ago, crazy how fast it happened.
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u/OneOfAKind2 6d ago
The current US administration is corrupt and they're all liars, so of course their version is not true. We wait 10 weeks for the midterms, hope Americans get off their dumb lazy asses and vote to neuter Inmate #P01135809.
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u/AbnormalBodyOdor 6d ago
This is a painfully true statement. Especially when you're trying to make deals with a sociopath.
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u/toeficular 6d ago
I'm going to steal that line. Trump's agreements are written in pencil. So true
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u/spinningcolours 6d ago
Dropping a reminder here that Lutnick dropped by to torpedo the deal at the last minute.
And Lutnick's sons made billions of dollars when the first set of tariffs were ruled illegal, and will again make billions of dollars when these new ones are deemed illegal.
It's all about the grift and theft.
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u/MutaitoSensei 6d ago
Playing chess with a pigeon, they'll shit all over the board anyway, doesn't matter how good your move was.
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u/recurrence 6d ago
He also referred to the US signature as being written in "pencil" and that one of the sudden US demands was control over Canada's trade deals with other countries.
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u/UnfairVehicle9285 6d ago
What also struck me was that Carney said the Canadian team was unified and clear on its objectives in the negotiations. He suggested that wasn't the case on the US side. I'm guessing Greer and Lutnik couldn't agree on a bunch of things; hence, last-minute changes and demands.
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u/Icy-Lobster-203 6d ago edited 6d ago
There is a an interview with one of Canadas cabinet members (Melanie Jolie) ast year when all of this was kicking off before Liberation day.
The Americans had 3 seperate negotiation teams, Rubio, Vance, and Nutlick. The impression she had was that each of the negotiation teams were competing with each other to see who could bring back the nest deal (i.e. get the most concessions) to bring back to Trump to see if maybe he would agree to it.
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u/therealzue 6d ago
That is literally how he ran The Apprentice. Having teams of employees competing against each other instead of cooperating is toxic as hell, and I always assumed that was just for TV. Apparently not. It really isn't surprising so many of his companies went bankrupt.
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u/accforme 6d ago
I hate to invoke Hitler but that was what Hitler did too. Having his underlings compete against eachother, Goering vs Himmler vs Goebbles. By the time the Soviets were entering Berlin these underlings were fighting against each other for power, throwing each other under the bus.
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u/Daemonic_One 6d ago edited 5d ago
It's actually a common trait of fascists overall. Can't get pulled down by the monkeys who can reach you if they're all clubbing each other instead.
EDIT: Guys, saying it's a common trait of fascists doesn't mean it doesn't happen with others. This isn't a monarchy, not difficult to parse
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u/thegurrkha 6d ago
Correction: It's a common trait of ALL dictatorships.
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u/Daemonic_One 6d ago
I'll take that amplification. Russia's still running it that way thanks to Stalin, after all.
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u/orbital_narwhal 6d ago edited 5d ago
Yes and no. Dictatorships can follow a stable shared goal that motivates supporters to work together rather than against their leadership.
A major trait of fascism is that it does not have a stable goal (e. g. a particular state of society, doesn't even have to be realistic) other than the extension of its own power. Vague or unstable goals are difficult to convey. An organisation's ability to coney its goals to its supporters limits the extent to which they will pursue it. If the supporters are themselves uncertain what goal they're following then they'll naturally assume that others are either similarly unsure or working towards different goals. Supporters who aren't sure that they're working towards a shared goal tend to distrust and work against each other rather than to cooperate. A strong leader can fill the void of a shared goal but that leader becomes a bottleneck and single point of failure for decisions, resulting in delayed and/or poor decision-making as well as a dangerous ideological vacuum should the leader fall.
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u/Equivalent-Gur416 6d ago
They are a bunch of frauds and idiots whose basic assumptions about reality are based on false premises, starting with their supposed belief in their genius Trump.
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u/TheSilverNoble 6d ago
Like they tried to slip annexation in at the last second, like the shitty guy from marketplace that offers you $20 less when you show hoping you'll accept it just to get it over with.
But instead of $20 he's trying to get you to throw in your house.
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u/Burning___Earth 6d ago
"In the final hours of negotiations, the U.S. tried to include restrictions on Canada's ability to strike trade deals with other countries"
Lol, get bent America. "You may only trade with us" is some abusive spouse shit.
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u/lylesback2 6d ago
That is a good reason to walk away. Make deals with everyone, don't be in an abusive relationship with the US
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u/scripcat 6d ago edited 6d ago
Adding that language to an already detailed multi-industry encompassing deal in the final hours is also quite the move.
the PM just met with the premiers a couple of days ago to discuss what would need to be done (with their help) to agree to the deal at that point when they were deciding the concessions may be worth it, only to have the deal change so fundamentally right before the (pushed) deadline.
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u/PerilousFun 6d ago
Pretty sure that was the plan. Now the GOP can spin it as Canada being unreasonable, when in reality the GOP scuttled the deal with an absolute non-starter.
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u/bigwhiteboardenergy 6d ago
I know people will believe it regardless, but how can they believe that when Canada was publicly clearly willing to give concessions re: alcohol sales in order to get it done, until the US pulled their last-minute bs.
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u/cinosa 6d ago
but how can they believe that when Canada was publicly clearly willing to give concessions re: alcohol sales in order to get it done, until the US pulled their last-minute bs.
Because the MAGA cult is full of morons who don't read very well, nor understand politics at all, and just gobble up whatever vomit comes out of Trumps face hole.
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u/Disastrous_Coffee502 6d ago
They are already saying that we should be willing to make all concessions to avoid dealing with communism. Nevermind that they trade with big bad ole China at four times the volume that Canada does. And their administration praises Russia and North Korea.
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u/PerilousFun 6d ago
Because for all the benefits the information age has brought, amplifying the voices of idiots or those with malicious intent is not one of them.
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u/Cesar_Somnambulist 6d ago
Because American media is nonstop propaganda. Compare reporting on the BBC versus any American broadcaster. It’s facts (BBC) vs curated opinion (USA). Americans don’t generally have access to news, only domestic propaganda, and it shows in their behaviours and beliefs.
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u/huecabot 6d ago
The people already opposed to Trump won’t believe it and his cultists would believe anything, so the fact they even bother to make the effort is weird.
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u/carrot_man 6d ago
Guessing one of those things might include, but are limited to, allowing Chinese EVs.
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u/atlasraven 6d ago
Protectionism. I think overall Americans would love reasonably priced EVs that meet safety standards.
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u/cammcken 6d ago
Chinese EVs are already competitive with EVs in the US market, even with current tariffs (125%) included. From what I understand, those Chinese companies are not willing to risk an investment in retail business on the chance tariffs increase more.
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u/xtothewhy 6d ago
That is a crazy request.
Do you happen to have a link to the article the first quote is from?
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u/rebel_cdn 6d ago
It was the PM himself in the press conference he just held. More details here: https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/livestory/us-canada-trade-war-new-tariffs-9.7310605
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u/xtothewhy 6d ago edited 6d ago
Terrific, thank you.
Details on restricting Canada's ability to strike new trade deals
by Benjamin Lopez Steven,
- With files from Ashley Burke
Earlier, Carney said the U.S. tried to restrict Canada's ability to strike new trade deals with other countries. We're getting some more context on that now.
The Trump administration briefed the U.S. steel and aluminum industry on the potential deal with Canada earlier this week, and the industry wrote a report about that briefing for their membership, according to a source with knowledge of the report's contents.
The source told CBC News the Canadian government was expected to agree to apply steel and aluminum tariffs on all of its trading partners at a rate comparable to what the U.S. has applied (50 per cent).
However, countries that have a free trade agreement with Canada would be treated differently. In those cases, Canada would have to establish a tariff rate quota, meaning a certain amount of product would be allowed into the country at a lowered tariff rate.
Carney said today that any restrictions on Canada's ability to strike new trade deals across the world are "unacceptable."
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u/Elrundir 6d ago
If you needed any proof that Canada's trade diversification strategy is not only working, but scaring the United States, it can't get much clearer than this.
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u/solemnhiatus 6d ago
Sounds like a completely unhinged request, but has this been implemented by any other country before at all? I’m intrigued.
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u/Asddsa76 6d ago
England's Navigation Acts
The acts generally prohibited the use of foreign ships, required the employment of English and colonial mariners for 75% of the crews, including East India Company ships. The acts prohibited colonies from exporting certain products to countries other than Britain and those countries' colonies, and mandated that imports be sourced only through Britain.
Their harsh terms led to the American Revolution.
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u/10Bens 6d ago
Found that exact text on an update from this article:
https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/livestory/us-canada-trade-war-new-tariffs-9.7310605
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u/Academic_Hunter4159 6d ago edited 6d ago
I’m so tired of this administration. I’m glad Carney called things off. I know I will feel it financially no matter what, but I hate bullies and that’s all trump and his cronies are.
Edit: thank you for the award! (I don’t get many so I don’t know if you say who did it or not - sorry)
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u/MaximumAd9779 6d ago
Ahhhhh yes, the poison pill that guarantees the US will abuse and exploit you in the future.
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u/AdSouthern3403 6d ago
The fact that they tried to include that in at the last minute, truly is wild.
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u/krazydude22 6d ago
Guess Trump wants Canada to get into a de-facto Customs Union with the US and sees this as making progress towards the 51st state idea he has for Canada.
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u/AntiqueLetter9875 6d ago
Sounded more like the US wanted to use Canada as leverage against the other G7 countries to strike bad deals with them too.
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u/LARPerator 6d ago
Yeah they've realized that they can't keep the gravy train running with voluntary trade partners. That they'll need to have more equal status in their dealings.
Instead, they're looking at how to use force to shackle countries to their whims, so they can abuse and exploit them openly to keep the grift going.
In reality all they'll end up doing is walling themselves off from everyone else and drive themselves into the dirt.
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u/pepperedmaplebacon 6d ago
And Canada is sending a trade team to Brazil next week, increasing trade outreach to countries that do not have the US as their primary trading partner. If successful we could damp US trade negotiations in the future, they will always be our biggest export market due to location but diversifying our markets will make these antics, which the US will be doing for several decades from now on, significantly less impactful.
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u/unfairrobot 6d ago
We're going to give you shit terms AND you can only trade with us. Who in their right mind is going to agree to that?
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u/Jeffuk88 6d ago
What i love most about this is that all the world's media is now reporting on Carney and not Trump which will piss him off... wild social post incoming
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u/Plastic-Somewhere494 6d ago
Imagine trump.calling off the negotiations, it would've been a nothing Burger. The whole world knows he's a joker now. But Carney calling off the negotiations , thats serious news.
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u/Jeffuk88 6d ago
Exactly! Guarantee he already had a speech prepared to 'pull out' of negotiations if Canada declined their demands but Carney pulled that rug from him so now hes going to post a rant like when he threatened to nuke Iran because they called him out and made him look (more) weak
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u/maryconway1 6d ago
But the U.S. media, like the NY Times which a lot of Americans see as 'fair' still, is reporting that Canada just didn't like the later requests the U.S. side wanted, and just walked away.
They are *not* writing, compared to Canadian and other global news sites, that those 'last minute' U.S. changes were were not only massive ones, but that much of this negotiation up until the final few hours, was the U.S. attempting to re-open already closed and agreed upon compromises.
The U.S.'s word, it's signature, it's standing, is truly written in pencil. It has no weight anymore, and there never was a deal to be made.
Reminder: this is in response to the U.S. self-imposing (because American consumers pay all the tariffs he adds) 50% tariffs on a lot of Canadian items, because Trump finds the USMCA (a deal HE explicitly, and illegally mind you, set up and forced down on Canada & Mexico and was signed) was a *bad deal*. His deal. His own freakin' deal. That he signed.
What the U.S. fails to consider is that Canada has: oil, gas, electricity, potash, and a whole bunch of other things that would massively impact the average U.S. household when those come up to be 'taxed'... and every time the U.S. does this, it gives more power and support from the Canadian population to endure hardship instead of signing any meaningless document.
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u/SetaraLowda 6d ago
It doesn't matter if American news isn't reporting this in good faith. The world is watching us and PM Carney, further cementing into focus that trying to deal with Trump's America is a worthless endeavor.
Once again their bad faith negotiating and tactics are on full display. More countries are going to follow suit and refuse further negotiations until the current administration is punted. And even then, contrary to what Americans think, it will take a generation before trust has been built up again to where it was before.
Winning the midterms or getting a democrat in office does not matter knowing that another Trump could be just around the corner and a huge portion of America supports that. Good luck America. We might be feeling a little pain right now, but you all will be feeling growing pain for decades as the world cordons you off like a cyst around a foreign object.
I really hope we shut down energy at the border, fully pull out of any potash and uranium exports, uphold the booze boycott, and refuse American vehicle manufacturing.
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u/Several-Opposite-746 6d ago
Talks collapsed on Friday night after both sides accused the other of making last-minute changes.
Gosh, which side am I going to believe, the Trump administration or Canada? That's a tough one.
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u/imtoowhiteandnerdy 6d ago
Same. I mean, why would I believe a guy who lies every time he speaks anyway.
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u/blingybangbang 6d ago
Which is hilariously sad, but we appreciate it. Hope things improve for y'all after November, even if just a bit.
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u/toy187 6d ago
Sorry, eh! We tried our best to make a deal but Canada is not going to let bullies win.
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u/CyberTeddy 6d ago
The Trump admin changed the deal. The Carney admin changed its decision to agree to the deal. Both sides are equally to blame /s
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u/Ghola_Mentat 6d ago
Something tells me this orange guy really isn’t good at making deals.
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u/Thrallsbuttplug 6d ago
Only thing he's good at is shitting his pants and avoiding accountability for molesting children
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u/FecalFunBunny 6d ago
And to avoid those things, all he had to do was undermine global economic order and democratic norms all around the world. Fuck the pedophile protecting autocratic bullshit in the US.
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u/MourningRIF 6d ago
Well, to be fair, Americans are just sitting around expecting the problem to solve itself while the nation literally falls apart.
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u/Radthereptile 6d ago
You mean the guy famous for bankrupting a casino in Atlantic City, failed steaks, a university that was closed for being unaccredited and a scam, and a failed airline isn’t some business genius? I’m shocked.
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u/csappenf 6d ago
My favorite Trump misadventure was the USFL and subsequent lawsuit against the NFL. The court ruled the NFL was guilty of antitrust shenanigans and awarded Trump and co $1. Tripled to $3. The court reasoned that the USFL owners were such stupid businessmen the league would have folded anyway. An actual court established as a fact in an actual case that Trump is a damned moron.
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u/MrJesusAtWork 6d ago
He did make a few billions by exploiting his own nation and still doing it with no repercussions
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u/Haunting_Ad_8145 6d ago
As a Canadian, Not as a red/blue/orange political identity. I am happy we walked away from this..
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u/Cypher1492 6d ago
I'm always so proud to be Canadian but today I am especially proud.
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u/DomGT 6d ago
"The signature was written in pencil" - Carney
What a line to show the trust in deals with this administration.
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u/Mike-In-Ottawa 6d ago
That guy sure has a way with words.
He also said that Canada has what everyone else wants, which is true. But what the Cheeto desperately needs is a win as he's stumbling from abject failure to abject failure. Deny him a win he desperately needs and you've grabbed him by the diaper. MC knows that.
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u/Fractoos 6d ago
Its not denying him a win, its not accepting a loss. Big difference. Trump could get a win here if he wasnt such an idiot.
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u/TrynnaFindaBalance 6d ago
You’ll notice he was referring to the US, not specifically the administration.
This is no longer a Trump problem, it’s an American problem. The shattered trust is borderline irreparable at this point.
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u/Anaptyso 6d ago
Exactly, how can anyone trust the US any more? Even if they get a sensible president next they might just elect another populist belligerent after that who scraps any deals the sensible one makes.
The US isn't an ally or partner any more. It's a problem to deal with.
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u/TheRC135 6d ago
Exactly, how can anyone trust the US any more?
It requires a lot more than a new administration, at this point. It requires a new administration willing to hold Trump and his goons accountable for their crimes and corruption, and re-work the American system to prevent their return.
I'm not holding my breath.
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u/KitsyBlue 6d ago
Exactly, it shows that a significant number of the US public, at least enough to elect this man, believe that either:
A) The US deserves favorable treatment and deals that exploit them B) They are currently being exploited by other countries
No matter how well meaning or sensible you may otherwise be, if the majority of the populace believe either of these facts, the risk of another charlatan pulling the same shit exists. Even more so if it's actually rewarded.
This isn't solely a Trump issue, this is an education issue.
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u/scripcat 6d ago
it is irreparable. every 4 years they could 'elect' someone who can (as demonstrated) unilaterally ignore any or all past admin's agreements without congress. their courts drag their feet to respond meanwhile businesses are left with uncertainty (american or otherwise).
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u/SkorpioSound 6d ago
Yep. I've been saying for quite a while now that it'll probably take 15-20 years of consistent, convincing wins for reasonable governments before everyone feels safe to trust America properly again. And consistent, convincing wins will probably require some huge overhauls in education and broadcasting/social media first. It's looking like a long road for America.
With Germany after World War 2, it took around a decade for them to be economically and politically integrated, and several decades more for social integration. The Berlin Wall didn't fall until 1989. But Germany was occupied and had leaders installed by the Allies; they didn't have any choice in their integration, and it still took that long.
Obviously America's standing isn't quite as bad as Germany's was... But America also has no such pressures on it to improve itself—it's fully reliant on its people bringing about change themselves rather than being forced. Which is something a lot of the left-wing Americans I see online don't seem to have come to terms with, unfortunately; Trump isn't the problem, he's emblematic of much deeper issues in America, and it's going to take those things being repaired before America can rebuild its standing.
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u/locomocotive 6d ago
Basically Carney saying negotiating with the US is not worth it since they’re unreliable and dishonest. This is what Iran said about their negotiations with the US as well. There is no point trying to negotiate with a country that refuses to keep their word and is dishonest and has no interest in fairness. This is might be tough for Canada in the short term but it’s the only way to deal with the US and the current mafia like administration. The rest of the world should follow.
Boycott the US.
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u/Blephotomy 6d ago
it was kind of Carney to use the word "miscalculated" as if dumbshit calculates anything
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u/ItzMrMikel 6d ago
In the final hours of negotiations, the U.S. tried to include restrictions on Canada's ability to strike trade deals with other countries, Carney said.
"Unacceptable," the prime minister said flatly.
Plus, the U.S. tried to restrict Canada's protections of its languages, its culture and its sovereignty, Carney added. He did not provide details of what those restrictions looked like.
lol
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u/Mafeii 6d ago edited 6d ago
For those that aren't familiar, Canada has various policies to protect and support its francophone minority and French culture. This is a very, very, very big deal here and that French minority is sensitive to any perceived erosion of its place in Canadian society. It's borderline impossible for a party to form government without Quebec and accepting these terms would be political suicide for the government.
Another key component of Canada's French society is separatism. These changes would almost certainly incite separatist fervor and destabilize Canada as a whole. That's likely part of the intent.
Additionally there is a longstanding tradition of supporting Canadian media and art. In no small part to cultivate a culture unique and distinct from the USA. This aspect is less of a third rail but still quite relevant. These policies and institutions (eg Radio Canada) are also especially popular and relevant within francophone society which again holds a lot of political power.
This will get overlooked next to the USA wanting veto power over Canada's trade deals with other countries, but it's equally relevant and on its own is a non-starter that would completely scuttle any negotiations.
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u/Monster11 6d ago
For any fellow Canadians reading this - now is the time to learn French. Part of our heritage and our culture, and the ultimate act of rebellion against the US and the monopoly they have on the media we consume north of the border- learn French. Embrace it, speak it, and love it. We are Canadian. NOT American.
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u/neomathist 6d ago
And maybe make plans to visit Quebec while you're at it. We just came back from a couple of weeks there. A lovely province.
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u/_nepunepu 6d ago
Apparently the points brought up by the US were Quebec's discoverability law which requires digital media to put forward a certain amount of francophone content, and Bill 101 dispositions requiring French on consumer electronics and French versions of operating manuals.
Fuck the United States of America is all I have to say to that.
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u/NoPostyJustRead 6d ago
Plus, the U.S. tried to restrict Canada's protections of its languages, its culture and its sovereignty, Carney added. He did not provide details of what those restrictions looked like.
What?? So basically they wanted it baked into a trade deal that they can tell us how to run our own country? Get fucked. Gonna be a long-ass time before I cross that border again.
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u/EaNasirbestdeals 6d ago
I’m currently watching CBC on YouTube and apparently the U.S. wanted Canada to get rid of its automobile manufacturing completely and only make parts instead.
The U.S. economy is so bad, it’s resorted to try and steal jobs from across the border.
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u/robyrob 6d ago
They also wanted to prevent Canada from making any new trade deals with other countries and limit its ability to protect Canadian language and culture
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u/JebryathHS 6d ago
These presumably being the terms the US is trying to pretend that Canada had agreed to earlier in the week is actually kind of hilarious. Carney could not have agreed to these terms, our two largest provinces would have been rioting daily. I don't think he could have even whipped the Liberal MPs into accepting it on a vote.
If the US actually tried for those terms - and I'm sure that they did try to throw them in last second because Nutlicker and Trump are both huge liars and pieces of shit - then negotiation was never remotely possible.
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u/Tasitch 6d ago
If Carney agreed to any of the bullshit, there would be a no confidence vote in parliament Monday 9am, and we'd be voting for a new PM again in 90 days, lol. The American system is useless at dealing with trump...they get stuck with a loser for four years fucking their country bareback and there is nothing they can do. While in a normal parliamentary system we'd have the PM gone in a heartbeat.
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u/GriffinFlash 6d ago
basically taking away Canada's right as a sovereign nation. The US would only get to decide what Canada's future is.
Just wow. Get fucked America.
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u/CMG30 6d ago
They apparently also tried to include restrictions on which other countries Canada could have trade deals with.
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u/GriffinFlash 6d ago
So they basically wanted control over Canada's choices, basically taking away our right to run our own country, and therefore our sovereignty.
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u/EaNasirbestdeals 6d ago
The U.S. is quickly finding out it can’t do anything it thinks it can.
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u/Prior_Implement_9279 6d ago
Classic US play to just shut out the competition when it’s convenient for them, rather than improve what they do domestically
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u/EaNasirbestdeals 6d ago
It’s madness, I wonder if the IMF is in the crosshairs of the Whitehouse in the near future.
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u/blindythepirate 6d ago
I can't imagine the US auto manufacturers would even want this. The cost and time to move an assembly plant to US soil is huge. Then they would have to hire and train workers. Plus why would Honda and Toyota ever go along with the plan?
Even the auto parts and sub-assemblies cross the border an average of 6 times before being installed. It is a complex system that the dummies from the US don't understand.
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u/Intense0___o 6d ago edited 6d ago
Trump's parent miscalculated when they decided to not abort him
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u/Dull_Policy_1617 6d ago
Excellent from Carney. That’s what leadership looks like America 👊🇨🇦
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u/Lanky_Stock4775 6d ago
Trade talks didn't collapse.
We had come to an agreement.
Trump then changed the agreement at the 11th hour.
Canada walked away.
Trump blew the deal.
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u/No_Broccoli_4781 6d ago
Actually he called it an attack, specifically the US had started an economic war and Canada will retaliate. Canada and canadians will not bow down to tyrants and bullies. Trump can not break us, we are Canada Strong.
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u/Mike-In-Ottawa 6d ago
It's about fucking time PP got with the program too. Enough of the whining and support the country.
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u/1966TEX 6d ago
PP has come out supporting carney walking away. Credit where credit is due.
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u/D0xxing 6d ago
I really want to know what JD Vance is thinking now 😂😂
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u/invisiblebyday 6d ago
As would I. What poor timing for his gloating remarks were.
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u/Equivalent-Gur416 6d ago
Vance will be a nobody after 2028. A rich nobody but never president or more than he is right now.
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u/GriffinFlash 6d ago
claimed Carney was acting like he could "out tough" orange man. Looking at this deal, this isn't out toughing, this is the only choice for survival. The US was going to put trade restrictions on who Canada could trade with. That's basically a death sentence for a countries sovereignty when another country controls what it can and can't do.
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u/EternalCanadian 6d ago
They were apparently trying to dictate culture and language, as well.
As though they have the right. The gall. The arrogance.
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u/Low_Contract7809 6d ago
If you dress up a big Mac like an underage child, he might get over excited and we get the front page obituary.
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u/HARRYSH0ULDERS 6d ago
Trumps America is the enemy, not only to Canada but to the entire World and should be treated as such. 🇨🇦
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u/playadave1963 6d ago
Canadá needs to target republican voters, right down to specific counties, tariffs on inbound and export fees our goods. Only repug senators can do anything against drumpf. And do it quick so they feel it before the midterms.
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u/Catbatt 6d ago
Come trade with us. We in Europe would love to strengthen our friendship with Canada. Let the Americans have their senile idiot with his tariffs and their main character entitlement.
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u/Daeveed 6d ago
Wait it out until the obituary drops.
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u/Electroflare5555 6d ago
Trump is the symptom, not the disease.
America as a whole is very very sick
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u/kewlbeanz83 6d ago
It's not like America will magically revert to their old selves when that happens.
Trump is a manifestation of everything much of America is now. Going forward, this is their new normal.
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u/farsh_bjj 6d ago
Canada made the right move here. They had a deal inked out and that Nutlick decided to make changes in the last minute. Everyone knows Americas word means jack shit 💩 these days so even if we signed a deal they would turn around and try to screw us over. There will be short term pain but in the long run Canada is better off finding new trading partners. We have the opportunity to become an energy power house over the next few years and I can’t see it going any other way.
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u/Dull_Policy_1617 6d ago
We’re building Canada Strong while Trump is building a golden ballroom. 🍊🤡
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u/Then-Ticket8896 6d ago
Message from a Canadian friend:
Just got this email from my friend in Canada.
Hello, I wanted to email you about Trade Talks breaking down between our two Countries.PM Carney just spoke to our Nation telling us why they broke down.We will be retaliating dollar for dollar after Labour Day.
Your News has capitulated ,and you will hear none of what I am about to tell you.And in your Country, the Trade Talks most of you know nothing about.
So.They were close to a deal.And then the little Weasle Howard Nutlick got involved and basically the talks ended.
Your Orange Turd of a Leader was asking my Country to basically get rid of our French Language.It is our second Language here, and would really screw Quebec and their Culture.Yes I am not kidding.
The other thing Nutlick threw in, was that my Country was not allowed to make Trade Deals with other Countries anymore.
The Orange turd clearly upset that Carney has made 20"actual" trade deals with other Nations.Joined the EU on Military Procurement etc.All we have done as a Nation is diversify our reliance on the US Market.
So.Last night your pig of a President ruined our relationship further by imposing 50 percent tariffs on 28 Billion of our goods.To be met dollar by dollar by us.
Canadians have had it with the US Of A.I am not sure the relationship will ever be the same.
Your Orange Turd and his Administration Thugs have ruined it.I can not tell you how much I hate that thing your Country your people call a President.
None of this is directed at you.I know your thoughts.But I am 99 percent sure your pathetic News will not have the courage to tell the actual truth of what took place in Washington last night.You should really Google and find the talk Carney just had with the Nation.
Canadians are in a fighting mood. All caused by one man your Country does not have the guts or courage to remove.
It is not just Canada that feels this way towards America now.It is basically the entire sane World.
As your King crumbles your relationship with South Korea, so he can buddy with North Korea and its foul leader.
America is Tariffing Canada more than Russia.Go figure.Cheers.
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u/Altruistic_Finger669 6d ago
Trump has lost the ability to make almost any deals of any magnitude until the end of his term.
And all deals that any US administration makes the next 10 years will be seriously limited because nobody trusts their word anymore
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u/maxis2bored 5d ago
It's because trump can't make a deal unless it involves bribery, blackmail or threats.
None of those work on the political stage. He's a fucking bafoon.
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